History Forum / General / Ancient History / September 2003

"Jiri Mr." <jirimr@nospamshaw.ca> wrote in
news:9CTab.189029$la.3791590@news1.calgary.shaw.ca:

The big difference between this and politics is (and I'll have to
shout this I'm afraid):
YOU CAN FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF

This goes not only for you, but for anyone else out there who is
silently reading through this discussion.    Its not impossible
to get yourself trained in how to read hieroglyphs.  If not
university courses, then there are several books and a few basic
websites, plus a shite load of images out on the web of actual
real original examples of writing for you to practise on.

The secret is that (and I'll shout again) YOU DONT HAVE TO TAKE
ANYONE'S WORD FOR IT.

Instead of just drawing lines and circles (which is what the guy I'm
responding to is capable of), see for yourself actual examples of
ancient egyptian hieroglyphs and see for yourself how what this
so-called "Abydos helicopter" script makes perfect sense if you
merely assume the palimset theory - that perfectly common standarad
text has been overwritten by other standard common text.

and here we go...

for another example...

of palimpsets...

in this area...

which should...

convince everyone...

that palimpsets...

are the problem...

Someone else was kind enough to post a link to another picture of this
area, but with a wider angle shot than previous images I've seen:
http://www.nccn.net/%7Ewwithin/abydosphoto.htm

It had been previously put forward as a theory that RamessesII and Seti I
texts were overwritten - a theory which this guy I'm responding to
rejects (and prefers to instead go for wierd circles and crap).

So...  take a look at the cartouche to the left of the 'Abydos
helicopter' (middle left of the image).    Its a bit messy, isnt it?

Now take a look at the cartouche to the middle right of the image,
at the top of the column.  This is the name of Ramesses II, and
is very sharp and clear. *1

The name of Seti I can be seen written on the page of a fansite for
this guy (doesnt everyone living or dead have a fan website nowdays?):
http://sethy1.free.fr/Sethy30a.html  
and
http://sethy1.free.fr/aindex.html

Seti I (or Sethy I) appears to have been written in 3 different ways
that I've found so far, but ALL of them include the symbols Re, Maat
and 'mn'.   The name referred to here after all is 'Mn-Maat-Re'.  *2

Now take another look at the cartouche to the extreme left of the
image cited at the start of my reply.   It is clearly made up up
the Ramesses II symbols (seen at the top of the column to the right)
plus overwritten with the maat, 'mn', and Re symbols of Seti I.

This, to blind freddy, is proof that palimpsets (text overwritten
with other text) are happening at this place.

cheers...

*1 Ramesses II - you can see in the middle a woman sitting, with a feather
on her head and holding an ankh.  She represents Maat.
You can also see a big circle at the right of the name - this is Ra/Re (or
however you wish to spell it).
To the left of Re you can see a dogs head on a stick - read this as 'wsr'.
To the bottom left of Maat is a horizontal squiggly line, this is 'n'.
There is another 'Re' circle above this squiggly line, plus a more complex
figure I shall call 'stp'.
The whole thing reads: 'wsr maat re - stp n re' (in a manner of speaking),
one of the names of Ramesses II.

*2 Seti I - The method used at Abydos is one of those shown on the fan
website page - (reading left to right) with the lady sitting who has a
feather on her head while holding an ankh (Maat), followed by the
horizontal block plus tiny lines at the top (mn), then followed by the
circle (Re).