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History Forum / General / Ancient History / October 2003Is it ancient history to complete the pesher? - pesher of Lk 4:25-27
Friends, I think completing the pesher is cutting-edge, but you be the judge. Subject: Explanations http://groups.yahoo.com/group/qumran_origin/message/1543 Best, David Christainsen >From: david_christainsen@hotmail.com >I think completing the pesher is cutting-edge, but you be the judge. I think it is, too. And so do every scholar I know and so BT gets to be a whipping boy. for how not to do Qumran studies. Do you know any "professional historian" who agrees with her? > >From: david_christainsen@hotmail.com > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > for how not to do Qumran studies. Do you > know any "professional historian" who agrees with her? Virgil, I agree no professional historian agrees with her --- yet. On Sister's Board a few years ago Dr. Thiering appeared after observing the scrape I was having with Ian Hutchesson, historian. The three of us plus Dierk Vandenberg and (less) Steven Goranson had a dialogue that lasted 9 months. The tug-of-war between the standards of conventional historians versus Thiering Pesher/Solar Calendar was a wonder to behold. Occasionally, my former friend Ian tripped up. I loved every second of it. Recently, Barbara was asked the following question on my Forum --- Q "Would you say that your work is now in the mainstream of biblical scholarship, or are too many people in the mainstream still ignoring it? If the latter, what has to happen to get it into the mainstream?" A "I can only give you what I have experienced. Each time I have put forward a new part of my case, no factual refutation has been offered, and, as far as I can see, the point I have opposed has been shelved. It is striking that Time Magazine was able to say last year that 'many scholars now believe that the T of R was John the Baptist.' No acknowledgement for me, of course I was the only one to say it but I am not dwelling on that as much as on the fact that it can now be said to the public. I do see it as a paradigm shift, happening slowly through education, and my concern is to continue the educational process. I do not want to name members of the Qumran establishment, but some are now even friendlier than they were, and accepting my articles on technical matters. The editorship of the main journal has changed, as I mentioned previously. There are further developments to come." Best, Dave >From: david_christainsen@hotmail.com >On Sister's Board a few years ago Dr. Thiering appeared after >observing >the scrape I was having with Ian Hutchesson, historian. Ian is not a professional historian. Ask him. >On Sister's Board a few years ago Dr. Thiering appeared after >observing [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >a wonder to behold. Occasionally, my former friend Ian tripped up. >I loved every second of it. I just got an email from SG. He does not endorse BT in any way, shape, or form. >A "I can only give you what I have experienced. Each time I have put >forward a new part of my case, no factual refutation has been offered, Please note that BT was asked for an endorsement and all she could say was that she did not see any refutation. The answer is that no one wants to talk about BT's ideas. To what do you attribute the lack of interest in BT's ideas? She is that brilliant? Do you really want to make that claim? She knows so much more than everyone else? >... > I just got an email from SG. He does not endorse BT in any way, shape, or form. It clears the air. Now what? May we get down to cases? SG and I have corresponded in the past. BTW, I supplied Thiering Pesher for 3 verses as a conversation starter. Why not revisit MSG #1543, the lead post in this Thread? I'll bet nobody can figure out what the heck she is talking about, so why don't you ask me specific questions? > >A "I can only give you what I have experienced. Each time I have put > >forward a new part of my case, no factual refutation has been offered, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > brilliant? Do you really want to make that claim? She knows so much more than > everyone else? IMHO - she is brilliant; it was 15 years before she was quite sure of NT pesher. Lack of interest changes in a hurry as evidence mounts to nail the identification of ToR as John the Baptist. Dr. Thiering dates career of DSS Teacher of Righteousness as 26-31 AD. DSS Wicked Priest is contemporaneous. Josephus' account of John's baptism is that "they must not employ it to gain pardon for whatever sins they committed, but as a consecration of the body implying that the soul was already cleansed by right behaviour". (Ant. 18:117) Page 65 of Thiering's "Redating the Teacher of Righteousness" shows this corresponds exactly with the Teacher's view of inward and outward purification. She cites 5 other close parallels between ToR and John the Baptist in her 1979 book. >From: david_christainsen@hotmail.com >It clears the air. Now what? May we get down to cases? >SG and I have corresponded in the past. Interesting. And what did he have to say to you? >BTW, I supplied Thiering Pesher for 3 verses as a conversation starter. >Why not revisit MSG #1543, the lead post in this Thread? We've been through this before. I don't chase references. If you have something to say on this Usent group, then say it here. >I'll bet nobody can figure out what the heck she is talking about, >so why don't you ask me specific questions? I'll bet you are right. And that is not a compliment to anyone. >IMHO - she is brilliant; it was 15 years before she was quite sure of NT >pesher. If you conducted a science experiment and no one could verify your results, what would that make of your conclusions? This is analogous to BT saying that she has discovered polywater. >Lack of interest changes in a hurry as evidence mounts to nail the >identification of ToR as John the Baptist. Yes, but this is not happening. >Josephus' account of John's baptism is that "they must not employ it >to gain pardon for whatever sins they committed, but as a consecration [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >outward purification. She cites 5 other close parallels between ToR >and John the Baptist in her 1979 book. So far this looks like BT's idea that the two are a match. You won't mind supplying the citations of items written by other scholars which affirm BT theory, no? Just because BT thinks it's so and _you_ agree does not make it accepted by the academic community. Since this is an academic question, I would expect you to provide at least one citation by someone who disagreed with BT. After all I do find this in the scholastic books I read. > >From: david_christainsen@hotmail.com > > >It clears the air. Now what? May we get down to cases? > >SG and I have corresponded in the past. > > Interesting. And what did he have to say to you? SG was concerned that I would think Jesus Christ the be-all and end-all. > >BTW, I supplied Thiering Pesher for 3 verses as a conversation starter. > >Why not revisit MSG #1543, the lead post in this Thread? > > We've been through this before. I don't chase references. If you have something > to say on this Usent group, then say it here. Thiering's pesher of Lk 4:25-27 is superb elixir - the best in the world. To pick ONLY one specific point among MANY --- "'Israel' means the second structure of ministry, that of levites. 1QS 8: 5-6 shows that in the symbolic temple the Holy of Holies was for Aaron, priests, and the Holy House was for Israel, levites. The Zadokite or supreme high priest was called the Messiah of Aaron and Israel (CD 12:23-13:1), while his deputy, of levitical status, was called the Messiah of Israel only (1QSa 2: 11- 22)." Do we agree with her statement as authoritative or do you see it otherwise? > >I'll bet nobody can figure out what the heck she is talking about, > >so why don't you ask me specific questions? > > I'll bet you are right. And that is not a compliment to anyone. I don't want to play teacher forever on the Internet. Eventually, Dr. Thiering will publish a full Pesher lexicon. > >IMHO - she is brilliant; it was 15 years before she was quite sure of NT > >pesher. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > that make of your conclusions? This is analogous to BT saying that she has > discovered polywater. Haven't you ever noticed that nobody in the academic world understands Thiering Pesher? > >Lack of interest changes in a hurry as evidence mounts to nail the > >identification of ToR as John the Baptist. > > Yes, but this is not happening. Somebody, somewhere in the academic world, sooner or later, will tap into the goldmine of Thiering publications and share it with the rest of the world to their satisfaction. > >Josephus' account of John's baptism is that "they must not employ it > >to gain pardon for whatever sins they committed, but as a consecration [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > least one citation by someone who disagreed with BT. After all I do find this > in the scholastic books I read. No, I just content myself with being a pointer to her 1979 book. It is passing strange that Greg Doudna commented at one point to Orion List on the book's main thrust but failed to study the detail in the book to support its conclusion. What's up with that? >... > > >Lack of interest changes in a hurry as evidence mounts to nail the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > of the world to their satisfaction. >... Subject: List of publications (Barbara Thiering) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/qumran_origin/message/2727 > Friends, > > I think completing the pesher is cutting-edge, but you be the judge. > > Subject: Explanations > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/qumran_origin/message/1543 Still a crock of sh.t and you remain an idiot.  SignatureWe know government conspiracies are impossible because it is impossible for hundreds of people in the government to convince 70% of the American people Iraq was involved in 9/11. Someone would certainly have spoken up and exposed the conspiracy. -- The Iron Webmaster, 2874 |
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