Atheist "Bible Scholar" Urges End Of Biblical Studies
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Sound of Trumpet - 15 Aug 2007 20:38 GMT http://www.cityside.org.nz/node/300
Bible Scholar urges End of Biblical Studies - Hector Avalos
Avalos' new book, "The End of Bible Studies", is due out in July 2007. Here's the blurb: "In this radical critique of his own academic speciality, biblical scholar Hector Avalos calls for an end to biblical studies as we know them. He outlines two main arguments for this surprising conclusion. First, academic biblical scholarship has clearly succeeded in showing that the ancient civilisation that produced the Bible held beliefs about the origin, nature, and purpose of the world and humanity that are fundamentally opposed to the views of modern society. The Bible is thus largely irrelevant to the needs and concerns of contemporary human beings. Second, Avalos criticises his colleagues for applying a variety of flawed and specious techniques aimed at maintaining the illusion that the Bible is still relevant in today's world. In effect, he accuses his profession of being more concerned about its self-preservation than about giving an honest account of its own findings to the general public and faith communities. Dividing his study into two parts, Avalos first examines the principal sub-disciplines of biblical studies (textual criticism, archaeology, historical criticism, literary criticism, biblical theology, and translations) in order to show how these fields are still influenced by religiously motivated agendas despite claims to independence from religious premises. In the second part, he focuses on the infrastructure that supports academic biblical studies to maintain the value of the profession and the Bible. This infrastructure includes academia (public and private universities and colleges), churches, the media-publishing complex, and professional organisations such as the Society of Biblical Literature. In a controversial conclusion, Avalos argues that our world is best served by leaving the Bible as a relic of an ancient civilisation instead of the "living" document most religionist scholars believe it should be. He urges his colleagues to concentrate on educating the broader society to recognise the irrelevance and even violent effects of the Bible in modern life."
This follows on from his article last year on SBL:
Hector Avalos on SBL Avalos, PhD Harvard 1991, was a fundamentalist child evangelist. Now he's a militant atheist, the faculty adviser to the Iowa State University Atheist and Agnostic Society. He's executive director of a group affiliated with the Council for Secular Humanism that seeks to debunk religion. He was a fundamentalist Christian and now he's a fundamentalist atheist. He preached and practiced faith healing from age 7 to 17 and became an atheist in college.
LC - 15 Aug 2007 21:12 GMT > Bible Scholar urges End of Biblical Studies Excellent. Think of all the *productive* use that time could be put to.
bob young - 16 Aug 2007 05:33 GMT > > Bible Scholar urges End of Biblical Studies > > Excellent. > Think of all the *productive* use that time could be put to. Absolutely. And those poor Islamic kids, learning parrot fashion from the koran whilst bobbing their heads backwards and forwards doing a wonderful impression of idiots in a mental ward.
And they wonder why there are Atheists around ~
Uncle Vic - 15 Aug 2007 22:36 GMT > Hector Avalos on SBL > Avalos, PhD Harvard 1991, was a fundamentalist child evangelist. Now [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > fundamentalist atheist. He preached and practiced faith healing from > age 7 to 17 and became an atheist in college. He must have realized "faith healing" is a scam, which pretty much starts the gears a-turnin'.
I love that term, "militant atheist". Annie Gaylor, get your gun!
-- Uncle Vic #2011
raven1 - 16 Aug 2007 03:58 GMT > "In this radical critique of his own academic >speciality, biblical scholar Hector Avalos calls for an end to >biblical studies as we know them. Another article you didn't bother to read... --
"O Sybilli, si ergo Fortibus es in ero O Nobili! Themis trux Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"
Nosterill - 16 Aug 2007 14:18 GMT On Aug 15, 8:38 pm, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@mailcan.com> wrote:
> http://www.cityside.org.nz/node/300 > > Bible Scholar urges End of Biblical Studies - Hector Avalos Detailed study of the bible does tend to lead to atheism. Stick to selected passages chosen for you by the church if you want to keep your faith - even better, just listen to what other people tell you and don't question anything.
J.LyonLayden - 16 Aug 2007 17:28 GMT Yup nothingness willed itself into somethingness, just like the wet rags birthed maggots in the 1700s. But even though nothingness is then necessarilly an omnipotent power, let's not call it a god because then we'd have to be accountable for our actions.
Cj - 16 Aug 2007 21:31 GMT > Yup nothingness willed itself into somethingness, just like the wet > rags birthed maggots in the 1700s. > But even though nothingness is then necessarilly an omnipotent power, > let's not call it a god because then we'd have to be accountable for > our actions. Nonsense! Cj
Mike Painter - 17 Aug 2007 05:16 GMT > Yup nothingness willed itself into somethingness, just like the wet > rags birthed maggots in the 1700s. > But even though nothingness is then necessarilly an omnipotent power, > let's not call it a god because then we'd have to be accountable for > our actions. WHICH IS WHY THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO GO TO COLLAGE. yOU MIGHT LEARN. (Too lazy to retype after hitting caps lock)
Michael Gray - 17 Aug 2007 08:53 GMT >> Yup nothingness willed itself into somethingness, just like the wet >> rags birthed maggots in the 1700s. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >WHICH IS WHY THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO GO TO COLLAGE. yOU MIGHT LEARN. (Too >lazy to retype after hitting caps lock) He would get pasted at collage. Not a pretty picture.
veritas - 18 Aug 2007 05:00 GMT > On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 04:16:33 GMT, "Mike Painter" > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > He would get pasted at collage. > Not a pretty picture. If we ended Biblical Studies what in the hell would we have to talk about? That would kill many a conversation. That can't happen. I thought a collage was something you put together on paper, like flowers and stuff. Why would anyone GO to a collage? Ken
Martin Edwards - 18 Aug 2007 09:30 GMT >> On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 04:16:33 GMT, "Mike Painter" >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > thought a collage was something you put together on paper, like > flowers and stuff. Why would anyone GO to a collage? Ken Yes, to stick something else on it.
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Michael Gray - 18 Aug 2007 11:12 GMT >> On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 04:16:33 GMT, "Mike Painter" >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >thought a collage was something you put together on paper, like >flowers and stuff. Why would anyone GO to a collage? Ken ~~~~~~~~~VOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Right over the top of your pathetically tiny little mind.
veritas - 18 Aug 2007 20:11 GMT > >> On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 04:16:33 GMT, "Mike Painter" > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Michael, your sense of humor is like your sense of history. Nil. Ken
Budikka666 - 19 Aug 2007 23:33 GMT > > On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 04:16:33 GMT, "Mike Painter" > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > If we ended Biblical Studies what in the hell would we have to talk > about? Do you *seriously* believe the Bible is all there is to talk about? If that's the case I am truly sorry for you.
What *is* there to talk about in the Bible that hasn't already been done to death?
Budikka
veritas - 20 Aug 2007 03:29 GMT > > > On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 04:16:33 GMT, "Mike Painter" > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > - Show quoted text - It was really late last night when I wrote that. I was tired. After arguing about Paul and the aspostles on a forum with the insulter and others, it was just a joking remark. I didn't even mean to make this a conversation. The illogical rape thing brought me back. Still don't think you can make a true valid logical sentence from it. But I was just joking when I said what in the world would we talk about. Ken
Michael Gray - 20 Aug 2007 04:43 GMT >> > On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 04:16:33 GMT, "Mike Painter" >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >What *is* there to talk about in the Bible that hasn't already been >done to death? It's frauds, esp the entire New testament.
VtSkier - 17 Aug 2007 12:39 GMT >> Yup nothingness willed itself into somethingness, just like the wet >> rags birthed maggots in the 1700s. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > WHICH IS WHY THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO GO TO COLLAGE. yOU MIGHT LEARN. (Too > lazy to retype after hitting caps lock) or to run your spell check. Actually the wrong word is spelled right.
Libertarius - 17 Aug 2007 05:06 GMT > On Aug 15, 8:38 pm, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@mailcan.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > your faith - even better, just listen to what other people tell you > and don't question anything. ===>And BEWARE, THINKING CAN BE HAZARDOUS TO YOUR FAITH! -- L.
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veritas - 19 Aug 2007 03:57 GMT On Aug 16, 11:06 pm, Libertarius <Libertar...@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote:
> > On Aug 15, 8:38 pm, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@mailcan.com> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com Somehow, that does not seem to be, for some reason to be good advice. However that does seem to be the case with theologists, they tend to not believe the Bible after close examination. Hmmmm. Ken
Matt Giwer - 17 Aug 2007 06:42 GMT > On Aug 15, 8:38 pm, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@mailcan.com> > wrote: >> http://www.cityside.org.nz/node/300 >> Bible Scholar urges End of Biblical Studies - Hector Avalos
> Detailed study of the bible does tend to lead to atheism. Stick to > selected passages chosen for you by the church if you want to keep > your faith - even better, just listen to what other people tell you > and don't question anything. Stick to the selected passages. Never read them in context. When in doubt refer to the "What is really means" companion volume.
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asteropaeus - 19 Aug 2007 21:28 GMT I know that habit of yours.....do you really want to share it with all of us
>> On Aug 15, 8:38 pm, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@mailcan.com> >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Stick to the selected passages. Never read them in context. When in doubt refer >to the "What is really means" companion volume. arclein - 17 Aug 2007 07:34 GMT On Aug 15, 12:38 pm, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@mailcan.com> wrote:
> http://www.cityside.org.nz/node/300 > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > fundamentalist atheist. He preached and practiced faith healing from > age 7 to 17 and became an atheist in college. Regardless of individual belief systems, the critical value of biblical studies is in preparing a student to interpret the entire canon of western literature and art. It may be the final irony to create a civilization with no deep grasp of its own culture.
They did this in China under Communism. The result is a rapid growth of ad hoc religions and Christianity. A more appropriate course of action is to engage in these studies not as a quote book to support a system of belief, but as a source book to western literature, culture and ethical system.
There is a reason that we no longer practice infanticide, or put criminals into the bear pit.
arclein http://globalwarming-arclein.blogspot.com
veritas - 18 Aug 2007 20:52 GMT > On Aug 15, 12:38 pm, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@mailcan.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > > - Show quoted text - We still practice infanticde, it's called abortion. And who says we no longer put criminals into the bear pit? What part of the U.S. do you live in anyway? Ken
Al Klein - 19 Aug 2007 04:59 GMT > We still practice infanticde, it's called abortion. And we still practice rape, it's called lovemaking.
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veritas - 19 Aug 2007 05:21 GMT > > We still practice infanticde, it's called abortion. > > And we still practice rape, it's called lovemaking. > > -- > %randsig:F:\Program Files\SigChanger\atheism.txt% I don't want to go there. Abortion is stopping a child from being born. We just get to it earlier now. I don't really care if someone calls it alright or not. I don't have an opinion, as I'm never going to have one. (It would be a first.) But the end result is still infanticde so we do still practice it. Why didn't you mention the bear pit? You must be from around here. Ken
The Chief Instigator - 19 Aug 2007 07:56 GMT >> > We still practice infanticde, it's called abortion.
>> And we still practice rape, it's called lovemaking.
>I don't want to go there. Abortion is stopping a child from being >born. We just get to it earlier now. I don't really care if someone >calls it alright or not. I don't have an opinion, as I'm never going >to have one. (It would be a first.) But the end result is still >infanticde so we do still practice it. Why didn't you mention the >bear pit? You must be from around here. Ken I appreciate your making me that much more thankful that I spent the vast majority of my first decade at the *right* (non-OKC) end of the Turner Turnpike.
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Al Klein - 19 Aug 2007 21:08 GMT >> > We still practice infanticde, it's called abortion.
>> And we still practice rape, it's called lovemaking.
>I don't want to go there. Abortion is stopping a child from being >born. Lexically impossible, since it's not a child UNTIL it's born.
child noun a person between birth and full growth
>I don't really care if someone calls it alright or not. I don't have an opinion Then why are you discussing it?
>But the end result is still infanticde 1) That's an opinion you said you didn't have.
2) infant noun a very young child (birth to 1 year) who has not yet begun to walk or talk
So it can't be infanticide.
veritas - 20 Aug 2007 03:20 GMT > >> > We still practice infanticde, it's called abortion. > >> And we still practice rape, it's called lovemaking. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > So it can't be infanticide. It just that I can logically justify that abortion and infanticde are locked together, but you can't (this is an opinion) logically put rape and lovemaking on the same level. Ken
Al Klein - 20 Aug 2007 04:40 GMT >> >> > We still practice infanticde, it's called abortion. >> >> And we still practice rape, it's called lovemaking. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >It just that I can logically justify that abortion and infanticde are >locked together No, you can, as Ms. Raymond has pointed out, redefine words to make it appear so.
>, but you can't (this is an opinion) logically put rape >and lovemaking on the same level. They're on the same relative level as infanticide and abortion - non-equivalences. As such, they ARE equivalences. QED.
Michael Gray - 19 Aug 2007 05:40 GMT >> We still practice infanticde, it's called abortion. > >And we still practice rape, it's called lovemaking. And it is also called Christian Marriage 'Duty', and Priestly 'instruction' of choir boys.
veritas - 19 Aug 2007 06:00 GMT > >> We still practice infanticde, it's called abortion. > > >And we still practice rape, it's called lovemaking. > > And it is also called Christian Marriage 'Duty', and Priestly > 'instruction' of choir boys.
>From your bitterness I take it you were a choir boy. Sue them, they have blood money. As for Christian Marriage Duty, well, I do my duty. Being brought up around Baptists, I think you better keep an eye out for the "youth ministers" from the arrests I've seen in the bible belt. Ken
Christopher A.Lee - 19 Aug 2007 07:06 GMT >> We still practice infanticde, it's called abortion. > >And we still practice rape, it's called lovemaking. And we still practice grape, it's called a bunch of us.
Michael Gray - 19 Aug 2007 09:04 GMT >>> We still practice infanticde, it's called abortion. >> >>And we still practice rape, it's called lovemaking. > >And we still practice grape, it's called a bunch of us. I have not heard that 'joke' since, erm, since 1964, I believe. ;)
veritas - 19 Aug 2007 09:39 GMT > On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 02:06:06 -0400, Christopher A.Lee > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I have not heard that 'joke' since, erm, since 1964, I believe. ;) I am ashamed to say I have never heard that joke. If I did it slipped my memory. One thing I didn't get that Al Klein said was the rape part. If the woman says yes of her own free will, I have been led to believe that is not rape. I certainly hope my assumption is true. So why would rape be called lovemaking. Maybe my sense of humor has left me at this late hour. Ken
L. Raymond - 19 Aug 2007 09:50 GMT >> Christopher A.Lee
>>>>> We still practice infanticde, it's called abortion.
>>>>And we still practice rape, it's called lovemaking.
>>>And we still practice grape, it's called a bunch of us.
>> I have not heard that 'joke' since, erm, since 1964, I believe. ;)
> I am ashamed to say I have never heard that joke. If I did it slipped > my memory. One thing I didn't get that Al Klein said was the rape > part. If the woman says yes of her own free will, I have been led to > believe that is not rape. I certainly hope my assumption is true. So > why would rape be called lovemaking. Maybe my sense of humor has left > me at this late hour. Ken It's not a joke, he's simply echoing you. If you can redefine abortion to be infanticide, he's certainly free to redefine rape to be lovemaking. It's just as valid as your effort.
 Signature L. Raymond
Michael Gray - 19 Aug 2007 12:39 GMT >>> Christopher A.Lee > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >to be infanticide, he's certainly free to redefine rape to be >lovemaking. It's just as valid as your effort. I may well have made a grave mistake.
I had previously and publicly classified the ill-named 'veritas' as a willful simpleton. I now realise the she is an involuntary simpleton.
veritas - 19 Aug 2007 19:53 GMT > On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 03:50:36 -0500, "L. Raymond" > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Michael, your posts make less sense than ever. Is insults all you can add to these conversations? As before, bet you wouldn't say that to my face. Like I said, I don't need to insult to make you look like the fool you are, you do it well enough. Keep your umbrella open in case it rains. If you would like to see a simpleton, look in the mirror.
veritas - 19 Aug 2007 19:48 GMT > >> Christopher A.Lee > >>>>> We still practice infanticde, it's called abortion. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > -- > L. Raymond I don't believe that abortion can just as well be called infanticide, and forcing a woman to allow you to have intercourse are in the same ballpark. Abortion is infanticide, you just don't have to kill a crying baby. Lovemaking and rape are at the opposite ends of the sex spectrum. It's not as valid as my effort. He had to be joking. Ken
L. Raymond - 19 Aug 2007 20:07 GMT >>> I am ashamed to say I have never heard that joke. If I did it slipped >>> my memory. One thing I didn't get that Al Klein said was the rape >>> part. If the woman says yes of her own free will, I have been led to >>> believe that is not rape. I certainly hope my assumption is true. So >>> why would rape be called lovemaking. Maybe my sense of humor has left >>> me at this late hour. Ken
>> It's not a joke, he's simply echoing you. If you can redefine abortion >> to be infanticide, he's certainly free to redefine rape to be >> lovemaking. It's just as valid as your effort.
> I don't believe that abortion can just as well be called infanticide, > and forcing a woman to allow you to have intercourse are in the same > ballpark. Sure they are. They're both instances of redefining words to suit your agenda. Abortion has a very specific meaning, as does infanticide, and the two do not overlap. When you insist one is equivalent to the other, you are doing the same thing as a rapist who redefines rape to be lovemaking.
And we notice what you've done in your response. You refer to your own error as two words, but suggest Mr, Klein is referring to the action of rape, rather than arbitrarily swapping meanings as you did. That's dishonest.
> Abortion is infanticide, you just don't have to kill a > crying baby. No, abortion is terminating a pregnancy before there is even a baby. Infanticide is the killing of a baby that's been born and can survive outside of a woman's body.
>It's not as valid as my effort. He had to be joking. It was identical to what you did.
 Signature L. Raymond
Al Klein - 20 Aug 2007 01:35 GMT >> >> Christopher A.Lee >> >>>>> We still practice infanticde, it's called abortion. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >and forcing a woman to allow you to have intercourse are in the same >ballpark. Abortion is infanticide Since an infant is already born (by definition) and abortion is of a fetus not yet born (by definition), they can't be the same thing. So rape and lovemaking are related in the same way.
>He had to be joking. No, the utter stupidity of your kind is no joking matter, it's utter depravity.
veritas - 20 Aug 2007 03:38 GMT > >> >> Christopher A.Lee > >> >>>>> We still practice infanticde, it's called abortion. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Again the insults. Why must you people go there? There is a good portion of this country who believe that abortion and infantcide is exactly one and the same. I personally am not one of them, but nevertheless, the results are the same, no baby. That's like saying shooting someone and blowing them up in their car is different. No, it isn't, the result is the same, a dead person. You just handled it different. If you don't consider a fetus a live human, great, I don't care. But the rape and lovemaking doesn't pass the test for a valid logical statement. (I'm 54 by the way, a Republican district chairman.) Which doesn't make my stand on abortion make me anymore popular with the christians. Ken -- "Truth does not give a damn what we conceive. We survive or perish according to our ability to discern the truth and act upon it." - Ken www.veritasnovel.com
Al Klein - 20 Aug 2007 04:49 GMT >There is a good portion of this country who believe that abortion and infantcide You asked for logic - Argumentum ad Numeram is a logical fallacy.
>I personally am not one of them, but nevertheless, the results are the same, no baby. And, as Ms. Raymond pointed out, suicide and murder result in the same thing - no life.
>That's like saying shooting someone and blowing them up in their car is different. It's like saying someone dying of old age and shooting them is the same - no life. You're arguing results, remember?
> No, it isn't, the result is the same, a dead person. And your claiming that the reason abortion and infanticide are the same is THE RESULT! So ... is it the same if the result is the same, or is it different if the result is the same? (It's difficult to keep things straight when you're arguing from a logically faulty position, isn't it? You have to change sides when the logic changes.)
>If you don't consider a fetus a live human It's alive and it's human (human is an adjective, not a noun), but it's not a person. This is a legal issue, not a logical issue or a semantic issue.
>But the rape and lovemaking doesn't pass the test for a valid >logical statement. The result is the same, and that's your argument - the result. Did you forget?
>(I'm 54 by the way, a Republican district chairman.) Whoopie for you. So you're a young kid and you're on the losing side.
Budikka666 - 21 Aug 2007 00:20 GMT > > >> >> Christopher A.Lee > > >> >>>>> We still practice infanticde, it's called abortion. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > exactly one and the same. I personally am not one of them, but > nevertheless, the results are the same, no baby. I think it's pretty pathetic that someone who labels himself "veritas" which means "truth", is so given to distortion. It isn't a "baby" or an "infant", it's an embryo or a fetus until it is born.
> That's like saying > shooting someone and blowing them up in their car is different. No you're distorting it further. If someone shot an adult and the newspapers reported that a baby had been shot, would you consider that the same thing? Because *that's* the kind of distortion in which you're indulging yourself, and you cannot hide it from atheists with these lame (non-)comparisons.
> No, > it isn't, the result is the same, a dead person. You just handled it > different. Now your poor grammar is showing. It's not a matter of handling it differently, it's a matter of putting a aggravatory "spin" on it either deliberately or through laziness or lack of caring. It's a matter of what lately has come to be called "framing" and the so- called pro-life hypocrites are masters of it.
> If you don't consider a fetus a live human, great, I don't > care. But the rape and lovemaking doesn't pass the test for a valid > logical statement. (I'm 54 by the way, a Republican district > chairman.) Which doesn't make my stand on abortion make me anymore > popular with the christians. Ken Someone in such a responsible position needs to be far more guarded with their tongue than you appear capable.
And I guess I missed something so I'm not even going to comment on your "rape and lovemaking" juxtaposition.
Budikka
veritas - 21 Aug 2007 06:05 GMT > > > >> >> Christopher A.Lee > > > >> >>>>> We still practice infanticde, it's called abortion. [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I do not use a guarded tongue even in politics. I simply tell it as I see it. You are right, I am not capable of "guarding my tongue" if I have an opinion, I say it. I glad you are not going to comment on Al's "rape and lovemaking" because all you could do was insult me or disagree with me. You can't come up with a syllogism that proves the statement. It won't prove. I tried it, and I have studied logic for a long time. I don't even see how or why anyone would take umbrage with it. Ken -- "Truth does not give a damn what we conceive. We survive or perish according to our abiltiy to discern the truth correctly and act upon it." - Ken www.veritasnovel.com
Budikka666 - 21 Aug 2007 22:20 GMT [snipped previous]
> I do not use a guarded tongue even in politics. I simply tell it as I > see it. You are right, I am not capable of "guarding my tongue" if I > have an opinion, I say it. So it's fine for *you* to trample all over other people and their feelings but as soon as someone says something *you* don't like, that's a crime. Okay. Gotcha. One rule for you. A different rule for all those upon whom you look down.
> I glad you are not going to comment on Al's > "rape and lovemaking" because all you could do was insult me or > disagree with me. Okay. Gotcha. It's okay for you to disagree with others, but they better not disagree with you. Now I know with which ilk to class you. Thanks.
> You can't come up with a syllogism that proves the > statement. It won't prove. I tried it, and I have studied logic for > a long time. I don't even see how or why anyone would take umbrage > with it. Ken What you are is a complete dunce. You wilfully cannot see the comparison, and here you are freely insulting everyone and anyone whilst whining pitifully when they insult you.
Let me educate you. A selfish, arrogant, clueless, hypocritical heartless, moronic, bitch is what you are.
Now go and LIE, after I gave you every single chance to get yourself straight, that all I did is insult you.
I wash my hands of you and it's going to take some washing to get the dirt you represent off of me.
Budikka
veritas - 22 Aug 2007 11:24 GMT > [snipped previous] > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Budikka You are so far out of reality, it really is sad. I feel sorry for you, you stupid bastard.( I don't HAVE to be nice, I just usually am), but I don't take that sh.t from anyone tough guy. You sissy boy. I will say it to your face as well as say it on here if you like.
veritas - 22 Aug 2007 22:48 GMT > [snipped previous] > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Budikka Butthead, as usual, you have no clue what is going on, or the answer. Give it up.
Al Klein - 19 Aug 2007 21:14 GMT >>> Christopher A.Lee > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >to be infanticide, he's certainly free to redefine rape to be >lovemaking. It's just as valid as your effort. The fact that the analogy is disgusting to him probably escaped him. "Veritas", indeed!
veritas - 20 Aug 2007 03:17 GMT > On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 03:50:36 -0500, "L. Raymond" > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > - Show quoted text - In fact it surprised me that you would use that metaphor as an answer. I give you this in logical categorical statement: All abortions result in no baby to raise, All infantcides result in no baby to raise, therefore, all abortions and infantcides produce no baby to raise, same purpose, different timing, Now, can you give a logical statement in any form, QL, or SL statements, any sentence that would make the rape statement a logical statement? I've looked and I must have missed it working it out. His effort is logically invalid. I can't work it out, the truth tree equation says the rape statement is invalid. Help me out here. The analogy is disusting but did not escape me, I just wondered why the logic escaped him. Ken
Al Klein - 20 Aug 2007 04:37 GMT > I give you this in logical categorical statement: All abortions >result in no baby to raise, All infantcides result in no baby to >raise, therefore, all abortions and infantcides produce no baby to >raise, same purpose, different timing, All successful contraception results in no baby to raise. All homosexual sex results in no baby to raise.
Therefore abortions, contraception and homosexual sex are all the same thing.
> Now, can you give a logical statement in any form, QL, or SL >statements, any sentence that would make the rape statement a logical >statement? Yes: Infanticide is to abortion as rape is to lovemaking.
Next time you ask for logic, don't ask a teacher of logic. (That's a bit of logic.)
Michael Gray - 20 Aug 2007 04:50 GMT >>>> Christopher A.Lee >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >The fact that the analogy is disgusting to him probably escaped him. >"Veritas", indeed! Quite. Perhaps she chose to hide behind this moniker out of delusional wishful thinking. She has succeeded in prostituting the Latin.
Jim Higgins - 19 Aug 2007 12:33 GMT >> We still practice infanticde, it's called abortion. > > And we still practice rape, it's called lovemaking. You people cross post all over on a topic that is very OFF topic here. How much do you self-important dorks think people in the groups you are spamming care for you trash opinions.
Get a life spammers.
Note: other groups clipped.
asteropaeus - 19 Aug 2007 21:32 GMT What is it you do not understand?....If the girl in question likes it...
or if your own moral-system..does approve with it?
>> We still practice infanticde, it's called abortion. > >And we still practice rape, it's called lovemaking. Budikka666 - 19 Aug 2007 23:36 GMT > > On Aug 15, 12:38 pm, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@mailcan.com> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > no longer put criminals into the bear pit? What part of the U.S. do > you live in anyway? Ken No, infanticide would be murder. No one aborts an infant. There are *embryos* which are terminated, however. But that's not infanticide.
The only bare pit is the basis for running society as a theocracy.
Budikka
veritas - 20 Aug 2007 03:59 GMT > > > On Aug 15, 12:38 pm, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@mailcan.com> > > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > > - Show quoted text - The names are changed to protect the guilty or innocent, but the result is the same. No baby to raise. Shoot someone, or blow them up in their car, they still are not here anymore. His rape statement is invalid, my statement is a logical statement, as I showed below. Ken
veritas - 20 Aug 2007 04:07 GMT > > > > On Aug 15, 12:38 pm, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@mailcan.com> > > > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Or I guess above. Somewhere on here. Ken
brique - 20 Aug 2007 05:34 GMT > > > > > On Aug 15, 12:38 pm, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@mailcan.com> > > > > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] > > Or I guess above. Somewhere on here. Ken So, baby dying from some illness is 'infanticide'...... right..... is that the same logic?
veritas - 20 Aug 2007 18:06 GMT > > > > > > On Aug 15, 12:38 pm, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@mailcan.com> > > > > > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 127 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Only if you hold a pillow over it's face so that it can't breath. But then the cause of death is not illness. People have been sentenced to jail in this country for letting babies die because their religion doesn't allow them to go to doctors. So, if you allow a baby to die like that, it's 'infanticide'. Ken
Budikka666 - 21 Aug 2007 00:34 GMT > > veritas <khogan...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 137 lines] > doesn't allow them to go to doctors. So, if you allow a baby to die > like that, it's 'infanticide'. Ken Only if it's a child between birth and 18 years of age (or whatever the age of majority is). Again, you're hell-bent on persisting in using terms as loosley as you can on a topic that is highly controversial.
I wonder why that is?
Budikka
veritas - 21 Aug 2007 05:48 GMT > > > veritas <khogan...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 148 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I don't care if it's a baby or a fetus. The both actions are taken for the same reason. To be rid of a child. What does that have to do with forcing someone to have intercourse or have consenual sex with a person? It is not even in the same ballpark. What is so hard to understand about that? Ken
Budikka666 - 21 Aug 2007 11:02 GMT > > > > veritas <khogan...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 154 lines] > person? It is not even in the same ballpark. What is so hard to > understand about that? Ken The fact is that you are now deliberately misusing words rather than having the honesty to admit that you were wrong in your choice of words regarding abortion. Rather than address that, you're now making an issue out of a comparison you evidently completely misunderstood and are determined to continue to misunderstand rather than find the honesty to actually address the situation.
I'd compare your behavior here with George Bush's behavior over his Iraq blunder, but then you would deliberately misunderstand that and use it to make more excuses.
The facts are these: 1. You've been misusing terms when talking about abortion. 2. Your misuse of terms in describing stages of development in human growth is as culpable as someone who conflated the terms for rape and lovemaking. 3. This has been explained to you now in the simplest possible way. 4. If you continue your dishonesty without even acknowledging the problem, you will deserve whatever you get and my patience with you will terminate. I fell sorry for you.
Budikka
veritas - 22 Aug 2007 23:11 GMT > > > > > veritas <khogan...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 179 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I would try and believe you but you wouldn't know the truth or a logical statement if it slapped you in the face. Its been explained to me and explained to me. I have explained to you and explained to you why and how you are wrong. There is no dishonesty here, you are simply mistaken in your beliefs. My patience with you has already left me. You simply don't get it, even when I go over and over it. However, I am sorry that you fell sorry for me. I hope you didn't hurt yourself badly.
brique - 21 Aug 2007 08:50 GMT > > > > > > > On Aug 15, 12:38 pm, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@mailcan.com> > > > > > > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 91 lines] > > > > > > > There is a reason that we no longer practice infanticide, or put > > > > > > > criminals into the bear pit. arcleinhttp://globalwarming-arclein.blogspot.com-Hidequotedtext-
> > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > doesn't allow them to go to doctors. So, if you allow a baby to die > like that, it's 'infanticide'. Ken You misunderstand your own comment, which was:
"The names are changed to protect the guilty or innocent, but the result is the same. No baby to raise. Shoot someone, or blow them up in their car, they still are not here anymore."
baby dies of illness, its not there anymore...... and according to your formula, that makes it the same as shooting them or blowing them up.
veritas - 22 Aug 2007 08:47 GMT > > > veritas <khogan...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 191 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Did you kill them with the illness? If you didn't then you didn't do anything. Keep thinking, use logic. Ken
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