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Inger's Newport Tower painting

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Doug Weller - 24 Dec 2006 13:01 GMT
Inger has in the past claimed to have seen a painting of the Newport Tower
that was painted before Newport was founded.  I have before said I thought
it was one of these but I don't think she has ever commented:
http://lithic.50g.com/ri.htm
http://www.redwoodlibrary.org/tower/frame2.htm

Doug
Signature

Doug Weller --
A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk
Amun - co-owner/co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/

bogart.lloy@uwlax.edu - 24 Dec 2006 16:19 GMT
> Inger has in the past claimed to have seen a painting of the Newport Tower
> that was painted before Newport was founded.  I have before said I thought
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk
> Amun - co-owner/co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/

Gosh, Doug, do you really think there's a mystery here?  ;-)

That Redwood URL contains, in one caption, the following:

  ..."the Tower is, in fact, on a hill that, before Newport was
      built up in colonial times, overlooked fields and the waters
      of Narragansett Bay."

The phrase "before Newport was built up" clearly refers to the
HILL.  But for a grammatically-challenged person who sees only
what she's looking for, it could only mean that the tower was
present, and, therefore,  the picture was painted "before Newport
was founded".  (Not the wackiest misinterpretation we've seen.)

I think we should hunt down the person who wrote that caption,
and beat a clarification out of him.

Or  we could just decide that the discussion of watercolors really
has little or nothing to add to our understanding of archaeology.
Do you suppose we could just stop offering new threads about
this  topic until some actual new evidence turns up?

Nah, didn't think so.

If Inger's actual source is otherwise, I will, of course, apologize
profusely.

Lloyd
*****
Inger E.(Norah) - 24 Dec 2006 17:51 GMT
Lloyd,
Happy new year by the way.
Doug has made a mistake as many times before - and I have commented the
proposition of his more than once.
But I can do it again - NO NO NO - it's none of the ones Doug suggested. The
drawing was made by one of the first one to also draw a map of the coast.
BUT and that's an extrem important but - it wasn't on one of his maps but in
the diary that the person had written.
And no it's not on net.

Inger E
> > Inger has in the past claimed to have seen a painting of the Newport Tower
> > that was painted before Newport was founded.  I have before said I thought
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> Lloyd
> *****
Doug Weller - 24 Dec 2006 18:32 GMT
>Lloyd,
>Happy new year by the way.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>the diary that the person had written.
>And no it's not on net.

And although Inger will claim she knows the source perhaps, she will never
tell anyone publicly.

In other words, the claim has no credence.
Doug

>Inger E
>> > Inger has in the past claimed to have seen a painting of the Newport
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>> *****
>
Signature

Doug Weller --
A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk
Amun - co-owner/co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/

Peter Alaca - 24 Dec 2006 19:11 GMT
>>> Inger has in the past claimed to have seen a painting of the Newport
> Tower
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>> Lloyd
>> *****

> Lloyd,
> Happy new year by the way.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Inger E

O, Inger, please don't tell us more!

Signature

p.a.

George - 24 Dec 2006 19:43 GMT
> O, Inger, please don't tell us more!

On current evidence     ignora
David Johnson - 24 Dec 2006 22:08 GMT
>> Inger has in the past claimed to have seen a painting of the Newport
>> Tower that was painted before Newport was founded.  I have before
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> I think we should hunt down the person who wrote that caption,
> and beat a clarification out of him.

It also doesn't help that the site's only description of the painting's
date is "old" - though from the style, I wouldn't put it before 1750 or
so - so I'm not sure what it could possibly prove about possible pre-
Colonial construction...

...oh, right. Nothing. "Inger said it, therefore it's wrong", I almost
forgot.

David

Signature

_______________________________________________________________________
David Johnson                          home.earthlink.net/~trolleyfan

   "So many of you come time and time again to watch this final end of
everything which I think is really wonderful and then to return home to
your own eras and raise families and strive for new and better societies
and fight terrible wars for what you know is right, it gives one real
hope for the whole future of lifekind...

...Except of course we know it hasn't got one."

Peter Alaca - 24 Dec 2006 22:41 GMT
>>> Inger has in the past claimed to have seen a painting of the Newport
>>> Tower that was painted before Newport was founded.  I have before
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> painting's date is "old" - though from the style, I wouldn't put it
> before 1750 or so

No, maybe even (early) 19th century.

>- so I'm not sure what it could possibly prove
> about possible pre- Colonial construction...

It proves the tower was there before the painter left.

> ...oh, right. Nothing. "Inger said it, therefore it's wrong", I almost
> forgot.
>
> David
Doug Weller - 25 Dec 2006 11:02 GMT
>>> Inger has in the past claimed to have seen a painting of the Newport
>>> Tower that was painted before Newport was founded.  I have before
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>...oh, right. Nothing. "Inger said it, therefore it's wrong", I almost
>forgot.

She now says "The drawing was made by one of the first one to also draw a
map of the coast.
BUT and that's an extrem important but - it wasn't on one of his maps but
in the diary that the person had written.
And no it's not on net. "

On the 13th she wrote:
"There are two sources, one a painting
before the Governor or any other known person built anything in the area.
That's been discussed before, I think it was eight or nine years ago. BUT
and that's one hardly anyone seems to remember. When Pothurst, Pinning and
the other had been in Greenland and after trying to get into an other
fjord there they were driven ashore and taken by a storm southward,
description doesn't fit Labrador or Newfoundland. Anyhow as a Danish
seacaptain presented some years ago in a History article in a Danish
Marine Journal/Paper there do exist a drawing from where they had to stay
over winter. There is a windmill on it as well as houses. It doesn't seem
that the url I sent the group six or seven years ago is up, but I did send
the url and hope that at least someone looked at it when it was sent. "

In June she wrote that it was a painting: "Guess it's time to contact the
person who at present due to long line of inheritance owns the painting
where the tower is on. From when? more than 10 years before the first
settlers are said to have arrived. "

On the 19th of April last year she wrote:
"And we haven't even discussed the Irish painting which someone mentioned
some years ago where the tower was on before the dates say it was
built....Eric do you remember who painted it? I have a file of the
painting somewhere but I don't recall the name of the painter. "

And in October 2000:
I will try to send the painting, URL
http://www.redwood1747.org/tower/frame2.htm
to a friend(a person specialist in 15-17th Century paintings) and ask for
his opinion.

What I myself would like to know more about is the colors. The green
colors I have seen on old maps(from before 1640 AD), the sky have correct
or almost correct colors for waterpaintings from 15-16th Century, but the
yellow one I am not sure of. It's probably an incorrect image due to the
fact that the painting have been reduced before being transformed to a
html-format, that happens unfortunatly all the time that yellow colors
change more than tree steps in any direction when you don't use the
original size on the image......

Inger E "

(I've got the turkey breast in the slow cooker so my share of cooking is
done!)

Doug
Signature

Doug Weller --
A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk
Amun - co-owner/co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/

Peter Alaca - 25 Dec 2006 12:11 GMT
>>>> Inger has in the past claimed to have seen a painting of the
>>>> Newport Tower that was painted before Newport was founded.  I have
>>>> before said I thought it was one of these but I don't think she
>>>> has ever commented: http://lithic.50g.com/ri.htm
>>>> http://www.redwoodlibrary.org/tower/frame2.htm

>>> Gosh, Doug, do you really think there's a mystery here?  ;-)
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>>> I think we should hunt down the person who wrote that caption,
>>> and beat a clarification out of him.

>> It also doesn't help that the site's only description of the
>> painting's date is "old" - though from the style, I wouldn't put it
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>> ...oh, right. Nothing. "Inger said it, therefore it's wrong", I
>> almost forgot.

> She now says "The drawing was made by one of the first one to also
> draw a map of the coast.
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> the group six or seven years ago is up, but I did send the url and
> hope that at least someone looked at it when it was sent. "

that means she never saw the drawing herself.

> In June she wrote that it was a painting: "Guess it's time to contact
> the person who at present due to long line of inheritance owns the
> painting where the tower is on. From when? more than 10 years before
> the first settlers are said to have arrived. "

If she hadn't seen it herself in december, she hadn't seen it in june.
If I had seen it, I would know whether it was a drawing or a painting.

> On the 19th of April last year she wrote:
> "And we haven't even discussed the Irish painting which someone
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Inger E "

> (I've got the turkey breast in the slow cooker so my share of cooking
> is done!)

have a nice dinner. don't eat too much brussels sprouts

(sorry, my right shift-key fails most of the time, the left
is already gone ompletedly0

Signature

p.a.

Eric Stevens - 26 Dec 2006 03:05 GMT
>> Inger has in the past claimed to have seen a painting of the Newport Tower
>> that was painted before Newport was founded.  I have before said I thought
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>present, and, therefore,  the picture was painted "before Newport
>was founded".  (Not the wackiest misinterpretation we've seen.)

The painting shows the proportions of the tower after the top was
blown off. This points to the painting having been made by someone who
only knew the tower in that form. i.e. the painter was born some time
in the 19th century or later.

>I think we should hunt down the person who wrote that caption,
>and beat a clarification out of him.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>Lloyd
>*****

Eric Stevens
IE_Json - 26 Dec 2006 08:06 GMT
Eric,
you and I most obviously aren't discussing same painting. You are discussing
a 19th century painting. I am not. I am discussing a painting from 16th
century. There is no way of saying if the top is blown up or not - it's a
tower of some kind without enough details due to distance from the position
the painter used. It's a type of water-color rather than oil and it's from a
page in an diary/annal of one who participated on one of the early sailings.

The interesting thing is that same shape, but with more details exists on
the old drawing that the Danish Marine Officer used relating to Pothurst and
Pinning's sailing and that the details seem to indicate that the tower might
have been a mill or a reservoar of some kind.

Inger E
Peter Alaca - 26 Dec 2006 10:30 GMT

> Eric,
> you and I most obviously aren't discussing same painting. You are
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Inger E

Wonderful, 'there is no way of saying if the top is
blown up or not', but enough detail to see it is 'a
mill or a reservoar of some kind'.

Must be a runestone mill or a ballast stone reservoir.

Signature

p.a.

Eric Stevens - 27 Dec 2006 04:47 GMT
>Eric,
>you and I most obviously aren't discussing same painting.

I thought that was clear from the context of my response to Lloyd
Bogart.

>You are discussing
>a 19th century painting. I am not. I am discussing a painting from 16th
>century.

Well, I wasn't.

>There is no way of saying if the top is blown up or not - it's a
>tower of some kind without enough details due to distance from the position
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>Inger E

Eric Stevens
IE_Json - 27 Dec 2006 06:16 GMT
> >Eric,
> >you and I most obviously aren't discussing same painting.
>
> I thought that was clear from the context of my response to Lloyd
> Bogart.

Are you sure Lloyd got that?

> >You are discussing
> >a 19th century painting. I am not. I am discussing a painting from 16th
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Eric Stevens
Peter Alaca - 27 Dec 2006 08:09 GMT


>>> Eric,
>>> you and I most obviously aren't discussing same painting.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Are you sure Lloyd got that?

Are you sure Lloyd is interested?

Signature

p.a.

Eric Stevens - 27 Dec 2006 09:16 GMT
>>>> Eric,
>>>> you and I most obviously aren't discussing same painting.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Are you sure Lloyd is interested?

I'm not sure about anything with Lloyd.

Eric Stevens
Peter Alaca - 27 Dec 2006 09:41 GMT
>>> "Eric Stevens"wrote

>>>>> Eric,
>>>>> you and I most obviously aren't discussing same painting.

>>>> I thought that was clear from the context of my response to Lloyd
>>>> Bogart.

>>> Are you sure Lloyd got that?

>> Are you sure Lloyd is interested?

> I'm not sure about anything with Lloyd.

I am.

Signature

p.a.

Eric Stevens - 27 Dec 2006 20:04 GMT
>>>> "Eric Stevens"wrote
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>I am.

Are you sure?

Eric Stevens
Eric Stevens - 27 Dec 2006 09:16 GMT
>> >Eric,
>> >you and I most obviously aren't discussing same painting.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Are you sure Lloyd got that?

I'm not sure about anything with Lloyd.

>> >You are discussing
>> >a 19th century painting. I am not. I am discussing a painting from 16th
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>>
>> Eric Stevens

Eric Stevens
bogart.lloy@uwlax.edu - 28 Dec 2006 01:58 GMT
> >> >Eric,
> >> >you and I most obviously aren't discussing same painting.
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
> Eric Stevens

Perhaps I can help.

I do solemnly swear and affirm, that I *got*
that Eric wasn't 'talking about' a 16th C.
painting.  By inference, it may be that Eric
doesn't know about any 16th C. painting that
meets the criteria that Inger has provided.
( I wouldn't want to make that an absolute,
but I'm sure Eric will correct that, if needed.)

It has been made clear that the painting
that Inger refers to is NOT the one at the
Redwood Url.  She maintains that there is
a different painting somewhere, and perhaps
more than one.  She does not say that she
has personally seen these (IIRC), but she is
(as usual) reluctant or unable to provide any
clear idea of what they are or where they might
be found.  Nonetheless, her scattered musings
about them are somehow germane to....
something.

As for me, if I (Lloyd) had a favorite obsession,
and somehow had seen or heard about or been
told about some unobtainable diary somewhere
that contained (maybe) a drawing or a painting
that might somehow, if nobody was paying much
attention, possibly resemble some structure that
might, when hell freezes over, support my biases,
why....

....I would never, ever post anything about that to
an archaeology newsgroup.

But maybe that's just me.

There, now you can be sure of something about me.
(Not that previous evidence was lacking.)

;-)

Lloyd
*****
Eric Stevens - 28 Dec 2006 03:24 GMT
>> >> >Eric,
>> >> >you and I most obviously aren't discussing same painting.
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>( I wouldn't want to make that an absolute,
>but I'm sure Eric will correct that, if needed.)

You are quite right. I haven't the foggiest idea of what painting
Inger is talking about.

>It has been made clear that the painting
>that Inger refers to is NOT the one at the
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>Lloyd
>*****

Eric Stevens
Inger E.(Norah) - 28 Dec 2006 03:48 GMT
> >> >> >Eric,
> >> >> >you and I most obviously aren't discussing same painting.
[quoted text clipped - 81 lines]
>
> Eric Stevens

Apart from all that I must say when going thru, the first of several
hundreds, backup discs this morning to realise that no one discussed Saint
Bavo's Tower that is outside the url of Sue's.
http://www.neara.org/CARLSON/newporttower.htm

(I will take time now and then going thru disc by disc. Eric I know I sent
you the url after I moved to Gothenburg eight years ago and that it was
short before you had to get a new computer due to the old one cracking
down).

Inger E
Doug Weller - 29 Dec 2006 17:46 GMT
>> >> >> >Eric,
>> >> >> >you and I most obviously aren't discussing same painting.
[quoted text clipped - 96 lines]
>short before you had to get a new computer due to the old one cracking
>down).

Thanks for reminding us of that url.  Either she still hasn't a clue about
the Chesterton windmill or she's decided she doesn't want to revise her
paper to be accurate. It was built as a windmill, I know the person who
actually saw the relevant 'invoices'.  It wasn't built as an observatory.

To compound this, and one might even question her honesty here, she has
clearly read Hertz (who referenced the proof it was a windmill), yet she
writes "The theory holds that, Arnold, having grown up in nearby
Leamington, would have remembered The octagonal arcaded tower and would
have been inspired to replicated it in his New World estate.  In his
sleuthing, Means discovers that Arnold was not born anywhere near
Chesterton, (he was born in Limington in Somerset, not Leamington)"

Anyone want to hazard a guess as to why she doesn't mention that in fact
that although an 1879 family tree makes the Limington claim, that on Dec
21st. 1615, 3 children with that name were born, one at Leamington Priors
near Warwick, one at Ilchester in Somerset, andother at Cheselbourne near
Dorchester in Dorset. I can find several claims he was born in Leamington,
Dorset, but no evidence that such a place exists!

But Hertz says it really doesn't matter whether Arnold ever saw the
Chesterton windmill as there were others in the settlement who might have,
including George Lawton, born about 30 miles from Chesterton and who
evidently built other mills in the colony.

None of which has anything to do with Inger's unverified claim about a
'painting'.

Doug
Signature

Doug Weller --
A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk
Amun - co-owner/co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/

Peter Alaca - 28 Dec 2006 08:43 GMT
Eric, watch your back, there is that woman again!
 
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