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History Forum / General / Archaeology / February 2007Octagon Earthworks’ alignment with moon likely is no accident
http://tinyurl.com/22ttmk  SignatureDoug Weller -- A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk Amun - co-owner/co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/ > http://tinyurl.com/22ttmk Some day some one is going to explain to me why aligning a structure to an easily observed direction is impressive. I mean there isn't much to look at if you are outside at night and it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to identify interesting events. Maybe not one person but the passed down trivia from as many generation back as humans or pre-humans became interested in events in the night sky. And the idea it was something reserved for shamans ... Anyone with decent eyesight could see the same thing. Impressive is predicting eclipses and things that do not repeat their cycle in a single lifetime. SignatureWill the Iraq surge be remembered along with WWI attempts to break through the western front? -- The Iron Webmaster, 3743 nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml Larry Shiff http://www.giwersworld.org/computers/newsagent.phtml a8 > >http://tinyurl.com/22ttmk > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > nizkorhttp://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml > Larry Shiffhttp://www.giwersworld.org/computers/newsagent.phtmla8 Take something more interesting from antiquity , like the entry of light through a passageway on Dec 21st and a few days either side of it - http://www.iol.ie/~geniet/eng/newgrang.htm Maybe people like you will wake up someday and realise that to create the effect like that where the appearance of the Sun on the horizon at the same time on Dec 21 st every year generates the light spectacle in the inner chamber requires that you do not use a calendrical 1461 day calendrical cycle broken up into 3 years of 365 days and 1 year of 366 days. I will make it easy for you,our civilisation,at least in astronomical matters,is so dumb and stupid that they could not build what those people did over 5 200 years ago.Of course you have no dignity and have no respect for the care which people like the Newgrange people and many others from all over the world like them took in creating the astronomical cyclical markers. I will tell you what is iompressive,how a civilisation cannot even get the basic correlation between clocks in sync with axial rotation right - http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/JennyChen.shtml The actual value is exactly 4 minutes for each degree of rotation,15 degrees per hour making exactly 24 hours through 360 degrees.There is a reason why it is that way but this ignorant era ,at least those who make it their business to investigate these things,refuse to take the care our ancestors took in meshing astronomical observations with conveniences such as clocks and calendars. >>> http://tinyurl.com/22ttmk >> Some day some one is going to explain to me why aligning a structure to an [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> nizkorhttp://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml >> Larry Shiffhttp://www.giwersworld.org/computers/newsagent.phtmla8 > Take something more interesting from antiquity , like the entry of > light through a passageway on Dec 21st and a few days either side of > it - > http://www.iol.ie/~geniet/eng/newgrang.htm > Maybe people like you will wake up someday and realise that to create > the effect like that where the appearance of the Sun on the horizon at > the same time on Dec 21 st every year generates the light spectacle > in the inner chamber requires that you do not use a calendrical 1461 > day calendrical cycle broken up into 3 years of 365 days and 1 year > of 366 days. > I will make it easy for you,our civilisation,at least in astronomical > matters,is so dumb and stupid that they could not build what those > people did over 5 200 years ago.Of course you have no dignity and have > no respect for the care which people like the Newgrange people and > many others from all over the world like them took in creating the > astronomical cyclical markers. > I will tell you what is iompressive,how a civilisation cannot even get > the basic correlation between clocks in sync with axial rotation right [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > care our ancestors took in meshing astronomical observations with > conveniences such as clocks and calendars. Sit at point A each morning. 100 feet away have a buddy put a stick in the ground that is right in line with the sun. Do this until you find the lowest point. Build a gate around the last stick. Later add walls. Impress your great-great grandchildren by not telling them about the stick. It is not like this is a difficult observation to make and is trivial to lay out. Aligning a building perfectly north-south is a bitch but laying out its sides with a taught rope pointing to that fixed star at night is trivial. As a matter of fact it is easier than any other orientation. Soltice alignments take a few nights and maybe even a few years to get perfect. Once you can draw parallel north-south lines, east-west is trivial as are 45, 22.5 11.25 and so forth. Many other things are possible just using ropes with calibrated lengths. Ask any crop circle maker for details on how to do it all in the dark. For more details consult any introductory high school level geometry textbook. SignatureIf the US supported democracy it would not be trying to overthrow the democratically elected government of Palestine. -- The Iron Webmaster, 3741 nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml Mission Accomplished http://www.giwersworld.org/opinion/mission.phtml a12 > >>>http://tinyurl.com/22ttmk > >> Some day some one is going to explain to me why aligning a structure to an [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > point. Build a gate around the last stick. Later add walls. Impress your > great-great grandchildren by not telling them about the stick. Your belong to a group of people who have little respect for the ancient astronomical timekeeping traditions and how they meshed with different creative aspects by which societies often marked their knowledge of these cycles,the megalithic and neolithic structures being examples of how old this appreciation is. I can identify you as a group,and a vandalising group at that,by the way you take shortcuts without really thinking about the material and humanity loses a large part of its astronomical tradition stretching back to remote antiquity through the careless way you treat these matters.I have specifically mentioned that as a group you cannot even give the correct correlation between clocks and axial rotation at precisely 4 minutes for each degree of rotation making exactly 24 hours/360 degrees.The two step process which generates the great correlation (known popularly through the Longitude problem) has one foot in pre-Copernican astronoimical timekeeping traditions and one foot in the heliocentric adaption to axial rotation. Your group puts sticks in the ground and reasons differently like the NMM here- http://www.nmm.ac.uk/server/show/nav.00500300l005001000 The exquisite care taken by our astronomical timekeeping ancestors and their heliocentric counterparts is completely vandalised by people who make things sound simple,people such as yourself.The scandal of replacing the 24 hour/360 degree correlation betwen axial rotation and clocks with a calendrically generated value of 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds is so large that people refuse to believe that men would intentionally carry on promoting it.I will say it is people like you who make up whatever story that comes into your head that do the damage for it was in the 17th century that using the return of a star to a location to justify the motions of the Earth that the 23 hour 56 min 04 sec value emerged. The great heliocentric adaption (after 1543) of the really old Equation of Time system ,which creates the equable 24 hour day,to axial rotation at 4 minutes for each degree of rotation was probably the pinnacle of many millenia of sorting and sifting until the numbskulls of the late 17th century England jumped the tracks and ,as it were,'took away the stick' and replaced it with a new one.Each and every time you see the value of 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds proposed for the correlation between clocks and axial rotation I assure you that it represents the lowest intuitive and intellectual level to which a human being can descend,at least a person who expresses interest in natural phenomena and the astronomical cycles which makes it all possible. The actual way axial rotation and clocks eventually were correlated at 15 degrees per hour precisely is exquisite,both in its pre- Copernican and its heliocentric formats.There is not one person here I would care to explain how it came about ,the reason being that none of you appear to appreciate the great cyclical markers of our ancestors as particpants in the cycles just as they were.It is not in your dead eyes that the achievements of our race emerged but in the lovely and often spectacular reminders that lovely men left on the landscape,the once respectful meshing of celestial and .terrestrial conditions meshing with human life. therefore we are all astronomers insofar as our existence is conditioned by the daily and annual cycles and are in tune > It is not like this is a difficult observation to make and is trivial to lay > out. Aligning a building perfectly north-south is a bitch but laying out its [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > - Show quoted text - >>>>> http://tinyurl.com/22ttmk >>>> Some day some one is going to explain to me why aligning a structure to an >>>> easily observed direction is impressive. I mean there isn't much to look at if >>>> you are outside at night and it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to identify >>>> interesting events. Maybe not one person but the passed down trivia from as many >>>> generation back as humans or pre-humans became interested in events in the night >>>> sky. And the idea it was something reserved for shamans ... Anyone with decent >>>> eyesight could see the same thing. >>>> Impressive is predicting eclipses and things that do not repeat their cycle in >>>> a single lifetime. >>>> -- [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >> point. Build a gate around the last stick. Later add walls. Impress your >> great-great grandchildren by not telling them about the stick. > Your belong to a group of people who have little respect for the > ancient astronomical timekeeping traditions and how they meshed with > different creative aspects by which societies often marked their > knowledge of these cycles,the megalithic and neolithic structures > being examples of how old this appreciation is. As I pointed out aligning structures is not worth respect. The methods are trivial. As I also said, predicting eclipses is impressive as it implies some understanding of the process and multi-generational record keeping. If an society deserves respect for putting a stick in the ground it lows the bar to the meaningless level for respect. [omitted for sanity's sake] > therefore we are all astronomers insofar as our existence is > conditioned by the daily and annual cycles and are in tune And you are on the Canadian dollar coin. SignatureAmerican troops in Iraq have to know they are risking their lives for people who hate them. -- The Iron Webmaster, 3727 nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml commentary http://www.giwersworld.org/opinion/running.phtml a5 > >>> On Feb 14, 1:41 am, Matt Giwer <jul...@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote: > >>>> Doug Weller wrote: [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > > [omitted for sanity's sake] At least you are honest enough to admit this,others would have paid lip service and waxed lyrical about ancient wisdom ect. I will remind you that you cannot build the roofbox structure of Newgrange and its spectacular annual light event with the calendar system by which you justify the annual motion of the Earth and that is saying something. http://www.knowth.com/images-ng/solstice-newgrange.jpg http://www.knowth.com/newgrange-images.htm So,remain unimpressed as is your right for indeed the builders,architects,astronomical observers and the societies which created those structures would probably have assumed that future generations would easily see and appreciate most of their achievements for what they are.As a Christian I can gauge that people no longer respect the traditions of the past because of the way life is led in this era as though we may convince ourselves that we are doing our ancestors a favor by forcing our values on them. I know a great deal about astronomy by way of not forcing shortcuts on the careful reasoning of my astronomical ancestors and by becoming more familiar to the outlines by which they created their astronomical compositions,most of which we still use today.The admiration being genuine rather than lip service to further a personal agenda,I am repaid a thousand times by these ancient and not so ancient people the effort to see what they were doing and how they did it.Only in the late 17th century with the emergence of the 'experimental cult' does the whole thing wither. If you have not understood why you should be impressed by alignments then there is little anyone can do about that but behind it is the sprawling vista of the great timekeeping and structural astronomical tradition,something that is now almost lost to history. > > therefore we are all astronomers insofar as our existence is > > conditioned by the daily and annual cycles and are in tune [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > nizkorhttp://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml > commentaryhttp://www.giwersworld.org/opinion/running.phtmla5 ... >> As I pointed out aligning structures is not worth respect. The methods are >> trivial. As I also said, predicting eclipses is impressive as it implies some [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > system by which you justify the annual motion of the Earth and that is > saying something. And I will remind you that a calendar is not needed. I just described how to do it by simple observation. SignatureIf the US supported democracy it would not be trying to overthrow the democratically elected government of Palestine. -- The Iron Webmaster, 3741 nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml book review http://www.giwersworld.org/israel/willing-executioners.phtml a7 >> >http://tinyurl.com/22ttmk >> [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > many others from all over the world like them took in creating the > astronomical cyclical markers. Could make an ultra accurate calendar. Don't want to. What we have is good enough and changing it would be a bleep because many of our neighbors use basically the same calendar and that is handy. Most people don't want it changed anyway. > I will tell you what is iompressive,how a civilisation cannot even get > the basic correlation between clocks in sync with axial rotation right Don't want to besides atomic time is good enough for me. The heavens are a little off. > - > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > care our ancestors took in meshing astronomical observations with > conveniences such as clocks and calendars. > >> >http://tinyurl.com/22ttmk > [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > Don't want to besides atomic time is good enough for me. The heavens are a > little off. You are simply not intellectually or intuitively intelligent enough,at least at present,to recognise why the correlation between clocks and axial rotation cannot change,it remains always 4 minutes for each degree of rotation making exactly 24 hours. The average 24 hour day which is a human devised principle born of equalising the daily cycle existed long before axial rotation was discovered as a principle by Copernicus.The great timekeeping astronomers simply overlayed the equable 24 hour day on terrestrial longitudes as 4 minutes for each degree of geographical seperation making 24 hours/360 degrees.With the Equation Time equalising one 24 hour day to the next 24 hour day ,the astronomers simply tied the clock /axial rotation correlation as a constant where it remains,no appeal to the distant stars but just a simple and exquisite way to exploit really old human wisdom. There is absolutely nothing difficult in determining how the two step process which has feet planted in both pre-Copernican and heliocentric astronomies give us the system you use every single day of your existence where clocks keep in sync with axial rotation - http://www.town-usa.net/timezoneworldclocks.html You are looking at the combined wisdom of humanity in timekeeping stretching back to remote antiquity when you see how it all keeps in sync and especially the great Western adaption with its pragmatic and convenient purposes.Why you choose to believe in a horrible 17th century shortcut which basically vandalises the great achievements of so many civilisations is not for me to answer. Convincing yourself that the "heavens are a bit off" clearly misses the technical points in the meshing of human ingenuity with later astronomical discoveries such as axial rotation and how people with good judgement adapted and exploited the work of earlier brilliant people.In all respects,it is our civilisation that is a 'bit off' > > - > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > - Show quoted text - >>> >http://tinyurl.com/22ttmk >>> [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] >basically the same calendar and that is handy. Most people don't want it >changed anyway. Thanks for bringing some sanity into this. >> I will tell you what is iompressive,how a civilisation cannot even get >> the basic correlation between clocks in sync with axial rotation right > >Don't want to besides atomic time is good enough for me. The heavens are a >little off. Yep. Atomic time lets me catch my trains on time, that'll do me. Doug SignatureDoug Weller -- A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk Amun - co-owner/co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/ On Feb 18, 4:56 pm, Doug Weller <dwel...@ramtops.removethis.co.uk> wrote: > >>> >http://tinyurl.com/22ttmk > [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > Thanks for bringing some sanity into this. Nobody here has the neccessary intelligence to recognise that you need the equable 24 hour day first before you can create the calendar system which is based on a 1461 day cycle split into 3 years of 365 days and 1 year of 366 days.There are two seperate systems involved in creating the 24 hour day and the calendar system,the wisdom of our ancestors was designing a system which uses the daily cycle and extending it to a calendrical system which corrects thing astronomically every 4th year. "Don't want to" is the response of a child that is too lazy or too silly to venture into the sprawling creation of the clock/calendar system that we use today. > >> I will tell you what is iompressive,how a civilisation cannot even get > >> the basic correlation between clocks in sync with axial rotation right [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Doug > -- So much for archaeologists,the exquisite principle which keeps clocks in sync with axial rotation at precisely 4 minutes for each degree of rotation and you opt for an consensus driven alternative value that emerged in the late 17th century - http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/JennyChen.shtml This is no minor error made in an obscure region of human endeavor,this is an error that is so enormous and obvious that to manage to avoid it takes more effort that to acknowledge it.Men do not do these things,sucessful people do not tolerate a serious error yet this is what is happening. The great care which our ancestors took in seperating the clock and calendar systems by using different cycles is a incredible sight to behold with familiarity,presently that ability to give our ancestors the admiration they truly deserve is blocked by a ridiculous 17th century 'proof for axial rotation' which led to the 23 hour 56 minute 04 second value.Considering that archaeologists are willing to ignore the recent hiostory of the Longitude problem where accurate clocks were built to keep in sync with axial rotation in 24 hours/360 degrees none of your comments on ancient timekeeping systems will mean much. Sanity !,I can tell you all about the insanity of the common place mind who can write something like this - 'Period Of Rotation "The actual value is 23 hours, 56 minutes and 4 seconds. This is the length of a "sidereal" day. It is the actual time it takes the Earth to rotate 360 degrees. The term "sidereal" (pronounced sigh-dear'- real) refers to the rotation of the Earth being measured relative to the stars. There ARE 24 hours in a "solar day". This is the time it takes from one noon (sun overhead) to the next noon. The difference in the two "days" arises from the fact that during a day the Earth also travels nearly a degree further on its yearly trek around the Sun. " NASA http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/rocket_sci/orbmech/period.html In comparison to the exquisite details of the two step process which keeps clocks in sync with axial rotation ,the above explanation which uses the 'distant stars' is so much destructive vandalism that only diseased minds would go along with it. > Doug Weller -- > A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'athttp://www.hallofmaat.com > Doug's Archaeology Site:http://www.ramtops.co.uk > Amun - co-owner/co-moderatorhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - >On Feb 18, 4:56 pm, Doug Weller <dwel...@ramtops.removethis.co.uk> >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] >silly to venture into the sprawling creation of the clock/calendar >system that we use today. It's not don't want to, it's can't be bothered as there is no need. Nothing to do with intelligence. If you were intelligent, after all, you'd give up all your posting since you get the same rebuffs where ever you post. Of course, it's everyone else who's wrong and out of step so far as you're concerned, so you're not bothered. Doug SignatureDoug Weller -- A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk Amun - co-owner/co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/ On Feb 18, 8:55 pm, Doug Weller <dwel...@ramtops.removethis.co.uk> wrote: > >On Feb 18, 4:56 pm, Doug Weller <dwel...@ramtops.removethis.co.uk> > >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] > > Doug Your community cannot even reason why clocks keep in sync with axial rotation at 15 degrees per hour making exactly 24 hours through 360 degrees,it is probably the most enduring principle known with its roots stretching back to remote antiquity. That a level of utter stupidity exists on this matter in the explicit form of assigning an alternative value to axial rotation in 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds and with the full support of everyone makes this a particularly devastating nightmare,as though or era suddenly decided to vandalise so much careful work and take these awful and counter- productive shortcuts. A man made a terrible mistake in the late 17th century by assuming you could prove axial rotation using the return of a star to a location - "... our clocks kept so good a correspondence with the Heavens that I doubt it not but they would prove the revolutions of the Earth to be isochronical... " John Flamsteed That is the cutoff point between the careful work of the great timekeeping and structural astronomers and the emerging empiricist celestial sphere observers who now treat astronomy as little more than an exercise in magnification.The great work of Copernicus is lost and also the later refinements by Kepler and further back into the old timekeeping systems which still exist as a reflection of ancient wisdom. You simply have not reached the level of our ancestors but you certainly have appropriated their work and forced into cartoon creations and all wrapped up in a meaningless mathematical language.There is no remorse of sorrow for the loss of so much of our shared astronomical heritage and for the junk that passes itself off as astronomy and by association archaeology,at least in these matters. What can be said of people who cannot affirm the basic motion of the Earth and how clocks keep in sync with it at 4 minutes for each degree of rotation ?.You insult yourselves and do not represent my astronomical heritage accurately and all humanity loses.Having no courage and little intellectual and intutive intelligence,the great strivings of our ancestors now seem a waste for this ungrateful and destructive era. > -- > Doug Weller -- [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > - Show quoted text - > On Feb 18, 8:55 pm, Doug Weller <dwel...@ramtops.removethis.co.uk> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 119 lines] > strivings of our ancestors now seem a waste for this ungrateful and > destructive era. You pretend to honor the intelligence and powers of observation of the ancient of our species. But you are a fraud, a hollow notion of an ancestor-honorer. You clearly have not acknowledged, nor do you indeed even understand, the criminal forgetting of atl-atl technology. You are obviously of the degenerate and simplistic bow-and-arrow tribe, who have conspired to remove all trace of memory of the true, peerless hunting tool that included the highest of spiritual strivings with scientific principles that are only now being re-discovered. It is due to people like you, people who have out of the blue snatched a set of well-understood astronomical truths, mystified and confused these facts, and used them as a 'cloak of invisibility' to throw over any archaeological discussion that verges on the true wonder of ancient times--the atl-atl. So your pretended outrage falls flat when one considers that you are only a minion, a useful idiot, for the true rulers of this age. You worship two sticks and a string, while the deeply spiritual atl-atl, filled with the symbolic and actual understandings of the whole universe encapsulated in the beautiful, simple and sublime spear thrower. So put your tail between your legs, failed obfuscater, and slink off into the stinking gloom that your masters have prepared for those who do not know the Truth. You will find no such benighted fools here, in this Temple to the Atl-Atl. > > On Feb 18, 8:55 pm, Doug Weller <dwel...@ramtops.removethis.co.uk> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 150 lines] > > - Show quoted text - And we dishonor the ancients with...cell phones... while we neglect the spiritual purity of Sprints ancestor and yours, Mr. McDonald....the Tom-Tom. > > > On Feb 18, 8:55 pm, Doug Weller <dwel...@ramtops.removethis.co.uk> > > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 156 lines] > > - Show quoted text - You will use their timekeeping systems today while not recognising how they evolved from the exquisite thinking of brilliant men or rather adopting the careless thinking of the late 17th century numbskulls - http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/JennyChen.shtml Like a cancer rotting the great astronomical achievements,including the Western Copernican/Keplerian achievements,your language and understanding is everything that those brilliant people ,their methods and insights is not. Look at you all, unable to reason the existence of a basic correlation that people look on about ten times a day when they see the standard pace which fixes the clock to a daily cycle based on axial rotation,ignorant fools who cannot manage to distinguish between the human devised principles of the 24 hour day and how it was overlayedon terrestrial geography and the Copernican discovery that axial rotation causes the daily cycle. You support an idiotic correlation betwen axial rotation and celestial sphere geometry without the slightest notion of what you are destroying,even when the basic principles are easy to understand.This freakish era ,while being grreat at technological developmnent,it totally devoid of the great intutive intelligence that once dominated the achievements of men and where they were recognised by others.I have seen what my ancestors did and how they worked and reworked insights of older civilisation,the adaption of clocks to axial rotation being one of them,but look at the affirmation they receive from this forum of people who have the gall to consider themselves competent commentators of ancient civilisations.Until you get a basic astronomical fact right you will only manage to insult yourselves before those brilliant men who give so much for you ungrateful creatures. > > > > On Feb 18, 8:55 pm, Doug Weller <dwel...@ramtops.removethis.co.uk> > > > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 156 lines] > > > - Show quoted text - <snip non-responsive propaganda for the twig-and-string ruffians> NO! You do not get to continue your vile obfuscation of the glorious Atl-Atl with your clouds of oft-repeated, and oft-debunked, squink. If you cannot discuss the truly important, the all-but-forgotten Key to the Ancient Wisdom found in the Atl-Atl, in all its multifarious forms (which are, indeed, only One Form), but instead repeat endlessly your litany of well-understood astronomical ...well, the only word that does it justice is 'sh.t'..., then you should be silent in this assembly and allow intellects greater than yours (e.g.: wasps and earthworms) to ruminate about what you can only hope one day to dimly discern. GO! And trouble the councils of the Wise and the Good no more. On Feb 18, 12:55 pm, Doug Weller <dwel...@ramtops.removethis.co.uk> wrote: > >On Feb 18, 4:56 pm, Doug Weller <dwel...@ramtops.removethis.co.uk> > >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Isn't the orbiting of celestial bodies in the heavens the same process as the vibrations of sub atomic particles? Is the relative accuracy of each type of time-keeping uh, relative and a matter of perspective? > On Feb 18, 12:55 pm, Doug Weller <dwel...@ramtops.removethis.co.uk> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 110 lines] > as the vibrations of sub atomic particles? Is the relative accuracy > of each type of time-keeping uh, relative and a matter of perspective? Everybody who needs exact time uses atomic time. There are things that can ever so slightly through off Earth rotation, etc. > > On Feb 18, 12:55 pm, Doug Weller <dwel...@ramtops.removethis.co.uk> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 115 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Sure. I need to know exactly how late I am. ;.) I'm no physicist. What is interesting, is how the shamanic tradition is tied to calendrics and megalithic observatories. The importance of the drum is in the shaman, marking with beats, ever longer measures of time until it becomes calendrics; the vast cycles of the Maya astronomer-priests for instance. Duncan > > On Feb 18, 12:55 pm, Doug Weller <dwel...@ramtops.removethis.co.uk> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 115 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Nobody has that dignified intelligence to recognise that the system our ancestors designed to always keep clocks in sync with axial rotation at precisely 4 minutes for each degree of rotation making precisely 24 hour/360 degrees is a product of the way the pre- Copernican Equation of Time correction was adapted to the discovery of axial rotation as an independent motion.What is the matter with you all,are none of you clever enough to see that the equable 24 hour day is a human devised creation and that the way it was overlayed in terrestrial geography though longitude division of the planet represents an exquisite means to exploit the human devised principle by keeping axial rotation fixed to noon. One of the first people to propose the clock,terrestrial longitude and axial rotation correlation was Gemma Frisisus - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemma_Frisius Long before Keplerian orbital geometry resolved why the Total length of the natural day was unequal,Frisisus and his contemporaries could adapt the Equation of Time correction to axial rotation and how geographical seperation could be determined by clocks,it is so much obvious history that to argue to the contrary is almost impossible.You manage to do it - http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/JennyChen.shtml The wonderful side of knowing the correct method is that it makes it easy to appreciate the ancient structures such as the solstice markers from millenia ago,something none of you can do presently. Far from being benefactors of humanity or rather promoters of lovely thinking behind modern conveniences such as the clock/calendar systems,you prove to be less than careful with material that does not admit incompetence.The works of my ancestors mock your endeavors for although you can close your eyes and pretend not to see,you do not even know why the pace of the hand sweeping across the face of a clock is what it is and how it represents that accumalitve think of many civilisations - http://www.town-usa.net/timezoneworldclocks.html You turn archaeology isto a grey pursuit of social forensics and rob the color from many great people of many eras. . >>On Feb 18, 4:56 pm, Doug Weller <dwel...@ramtops.removethis.co.uk> >>wrote: [quoted text clipped - 87 lines] > > Doug Doug, As long as you respond to him the longer he will keep posting. You know that. You also know this guy has serious problems and you can't fix them. >Doug, As long as you respond to him the longer he will keep posting. You >know that. You also know this guy has serious problems and you can't fix >them. Yes, he's deluded, obsessional, clearly thinks he can read minds and that he knows what other people are thinking, and has some cogs loose. Time for the killfile. He is some sort of religious kook, a quote from him: " Astronomy is perhaps the greatest facet of investigation of natural phenomena for it relies on the same intuitive faculties for affirming its precepts as Christians use in affirming the Life of Christ,sometimes intricate and subtle but never difficult. " And some apposite quotes from posters in response to him: "You make a mockery - however unwittingly - of clear thought and communication. " "Faith in a special insight is another symptom of Internet-mediated insanity." "Has anyone told you lately that you are a loon?" "It is clear you are not limited by definitions. You don't seem to be limited by meaning or coherence of any kind. " Doug SignatureDoug Weller -- A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk Amun - co-owner/co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/ >>Doug, As long as you respond to him the longer he will keep posting. You >>know that. You also know this guy has serious problems and you can't fix [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >"It is clear you are not limited by definitions. You don't seem to be >limited by meaning or coherence of any kind. " And he doesn't seem to understand that the Solar day is not the same as the Sidereal day or why there is a difference between them. :-( Eric Stevens > On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 19:38:01 +0000, Doug Weller > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > And he doesn't seem to understand that the Solar day is not the same > as the Sidereal day or why there is a difference between them. :-( The so-called 'sidereal day' is a late 17th century invention ,a silly maneuvewr to justify the Earth's rotation by using the return of a star to a location in 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds - http://www.pfm.howard.edu/astronomy/Chaisson/AT401/IMAGES/AACHCIR0.JPG Where they are getting the .986 degree difference - 24 hours = 360 degrees 4 minutes = 1 degree 3 minutes 56 seconds = .986 degree 24 hours minus 3 minutes 56 seconds = 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds. The Equation of Time system reflects that a location does Not,I repeat,does Not return to noon every 24 hours yet to make your sidereal/solar difference work you need to have the location return every 24 hours.It isd a corrupt nonsensical system devised by 17th century guys who cared nothing of the dignified astronomical achievements in their quest to tie axial rotation to celestial sphere geometry - http://www.opencourse.info/astronomy/introduction/02.motion_stars_sun/celestial_ sphere_anim.gif Is the astronomical actions of careful men not enjoyable or exquisite enough that you choose to believe in some 17th century concoction which introduced astrological constellational geometry in heliocentric thinking ?.Have you any idea of the damage that is being done by an error which has snowballed into that mess which you can see in that hideous animation above. The actual method which keeps clocks in sync with axial rotation at 15 degrees per hour precisely never involved celestial sphere geometry.It is a product of the Equation of Time system which equalises the natural variations in a daily cycle to a 24 hour clock cycle.The heliocentric adaption which fixes the pace of a clock with axial rotation at 24 hours/360 degrees was the efforts of brilliant men who exploited the human devised 24 hour cycle and how they elapse seamlesly into each other (Monday,Tuesday ect) and applied it on to terrestrial longitudes as a time/distance seperation of 4 minutes for each degree. What is the matter with you all ?,sundials register the variations in the total length of the day and the Equation of Time equalised it to a 24 hour day,it should be the single easiest fact to grasp and as for the heliocentric adaption to axial rotation it should be celebrated as a huge complimentary addition to the timekeeping systems which stretches back to remote antiquity.Archaeologists are now promoters of a phony history of human endeavor in timekeeping and structural astronomy insofar as I have yet to see one objection to the phony way which clocks correlate with axial rotation through the 23 hour 56 minutes 04 second value. Go ahead and try and make sense of the NNM explanation for the solar/ sidereal difference but then again you like nothing better than to insult yourselves - "Each solar day the Earth rotates 360º with respect to the Sun. Similarly the Earth rotates 360º with respect to the background stars in a sidereal day. During each solar day, the motion of the Earth around the Sun means the Earth rotates 361º with respect to the background stars." http://www.nmm.ac.uk/server/show/nav.00500300l005001000 Nobody appears to have the intelligence,the courage or common sense to determine that the NMM explanation,as one among many, is absolute rubbish .Have you any idea how damaging it is for climate studies where the motions of the Earth are required ?.This stuff is done with your approval insofar as you willingly allow a corrupt 17th century system hijack an older and more beautiful system that have the hallmarks of many civilisations involved,the sheer vandalism of it all is breathtaking and it can be represented using a single value - http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/JennyChen.shtml Look out on the celestial arena for the first time for all ideologies disappear in grasping the majestic motions of our planet through its respective cycles. > Eric Stevens- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - >> On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 19:38:01 +0000, Doug Weller >> [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > >24 hours minus 3 minutes 56 seconds = 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds. The logic is simple. In the time it takes the earth to present its face 365.xxx times to the sun, it makes 1 + 365.xxx rotations with respect to the universe. The additional turn is the one the earth makes in rounding the sun. You will find 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds. 365.xxx -------------------------------------------- = ------ 24 hours 1 + 365.xxx Your problem is that you do not seem to realise that the two different lengths of day derive from two different frames of reference. >The Equation of Time system reflects that a location does Not,I >repeat,does Not return to noon every 24 hours yet to make your [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] >> >> - Show quoted text - Eric Stevens <snip> > >Where they are getting the .986 degree difference - > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Your problem is that you do not seem to realise that the two different > lengths of day derive from two different frames of reference. I am reasonably certain that Gerald is not enamored of Einstein's work. It would interfere with his either/or view of things, and make him re-think a position into which he obviously has sunk vast swaths of his life. I suspect he suspects he has made much ado about nothing, as you noted. But for whatever reason, his mental...situation will likely only harden against reason, his or anyone else's. But of course, mayhap he will read your post, come to his senses and pull a Rosanne Rosannadanna. :-) <snip> > >> On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 19:38:01 +0000, Doug Weller > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > The logic is simple. The correct reasoning employed by the great astronomers is exquisite and involves a simple two step process with the Equation of Time as the common bridge between the pre-Copernican equable 24 hour day and its heliocentric adaption to axial rotation where clocks constantly keep in sync with axial rotation at precisely 4 minutes for each degree of rotation making exactly 24 hours through 360 degrees.The common bond between ancient sundials and mechanical clocks is that the equable day length of 24 hours elapsing seamlessly into the next 24 hour day was known to be a human devised average,when axial rotation was discovered ,these brilliant men simply took that 24 hour average and transfered it to the axial rotational cycle which generates the daily cycle.Without having to appeal to an external reference,they could then create the principles where 4 minutes of clock time corresponds to 1 degree of geographical seperation ,15 degrees for each hour enclosing the entire geography of the planet as a 24 hour/ 360 degree equivalency. In the time it takes the earth to present its > face 365.xxx times to the sun, it makes 1 + 365.xxx rotations with > respect to the universe. This warped/astrological/celestial sphere universe - http://www.opencourse.info/astronomy/introduction/02.motion_stars_sun/celestial_ sphere_anim.gif It takes simple logic,do you hear,simple logic to figure out that a star returning to an observer's meridian in 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds requires a calendar system baased on a 1461 day cycle split into 3 years of 365 days and 1 year of 366 days otherwise it will not work.Trying to justify axial and orbital motion using the calendar system 365/366 day is not astronomy yet that is exactly what Flamsteed did - http://www.astro.cornell.edu/academics/courses/astro201/images/sidereal_day.gif People have a very short attention span,they would rather stick with a ridiculous correlation which ties axial rotation to celestial sphere geometry in 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds than actually appreciate the Equation of Time system which correlates axial rotation with clocks in 24 hours,even though they use the correct system day in and day out. The additional turn is the one the earth > makes in rounding the sun. You will find > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Your problem is that you do not seem to realise that the two different > lengths of day derive from two different frames of reference. I come to sci.archaeology expecting to see at least one genuine soul with enough intelligence to see where they (late 17th century empiricists) exployed maneuvering which tampered with the noble Equation of Time correction which keeps clocks in sync with axial rotation at precisely 15 degrees per hour making exactly 24 hours through 360 degrees and altered it to a calendrical convenience expressed as 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds. I know why the 17th century guys did what they did and can accept the error as a product of that era as clocks and telescopes came onstream,the fact that they forced planetary motion into a calendrically driven clockwork system which meshed with the Ra/Dec observational convenience and its 'predictive' nature is astonishing given that it undoes the to great Western astronomical achievements known,the Copernican resolution of retrogrades through the orbital motion of the Earth and the clock/longitude correlation through the axial rotation of the Earth. Your archaeological discipline never learned its lessons from Piltdown man,the fact that men would knowingly follow incorrect principles to satify their own agendas and I assure you that the 'sidereal' justification for axial rotation is many magnitudes more destructive than the Piltdown man situation.I developed the technical competence to deal with all that maneuvering which alters the correct 24 hour/360 degree correlation to a false value but given that the Longitude story of John Harrison's clocks is so well known and you still argue for the nonsensical alterative value ,you can bet that events are far worse than any can imagine. "The degree of technical competence exhibited by the Piltdown forgery continues to be the subject of debate; however, the genius of the forgery is generally regarded as being that it offered the experts of the day exactly what they wanted: convincing evidence that human evolution was brain-led. It is argued that because it gave them what they wanted, the experts taken in by the Piltdown forgery were prepared to ignore all of the rules that are normally applied to evidence. It has been suggested that nationalism and racism also played a role in the acceptance of the fossil as genuine, as it satisfied European expectations that the earliest humans would be found in Eurasia. The British, it has been claimed, also wanted a first Briton to set against fossil hominids found elsewhere in the world, including France and Germany." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piltdown_Man Thank you for keeping to a technical response.The core principles are very simple however they become rapidly complex and encompass many different disciplines,historically,technically and bottom line. > >The Equation of Time system reflects that a location does Not,I > >repeat,does Not return to noon every 24 hours yet to make your [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > > - Show quoted text - <snip> > Your archaeological discipline never learned its lessons from > Piltdown man,the fact that men would knowingly follow incorrect [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > still argue for the nonsensical alterative value ,you can bet that > events are far worse than any can imagine. You appear to have stumbled upon some archaeology. Well done! The true upshot of the affair Piltdown is that the archaeological discipline did indeed learn its lessons. Piltdown was an extreme outlier from the first, and puzzled folks more than it gave useful answers to real archaeological questions. While there were some who found it congenial to their prejudices and expectations, far more found it an ill-cut puzzle piece. As more of the picture of human origins was filled in, Piltdown became more and more embarrassing. It just didn't fit. > "The degree of technical competence exhibited by the Piltdown forgery > continues to be the subject of debate; Not really. The technical competence of the forgery is half-assed. The reason that it held some sway for so long is primarily to do with the fact that its keepers kept the actual chimera close to their watch- fobbed vests. When the actual bones were subjected to actual outside scrutiny, the fraud did not long survive. > however, the genius of the > forgery is generally regarded as being that it offered the experts of > the day exactly what they wanted: convincing evidence that human > evolution was brain-led. This is quite true. And it wasn't just the experts of the day who wrestled with that question. Until we had extensive and intensive investigations on the biomechanics of the various hominids in our lineage, it was not clear that upright stance, reduction in size of dentition and toolmaking preceded the great increase in brain size. > It is argued that because it gave them what > they wanted, the experts taken in by the Piltdown forgery were [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piltdown_Man Yes. And? Piltdown was on and in the books for some 40 years as an oddity. It has now been on and in the books for 54 years as a fraud, a hoax. And for every one of those 54 years, it has served as a cautionary tale, extremely well learned by archaeologists, about the need to follow strict rules of scientific investigation, and the need to make finds and raw data easily available to other competent investigators. I'm not sure why you bring this up, except perhaps to give a gloss of archaeological relevance to your off-topic monomania. It is not at all apposite, as it makes rather a different point than the one you appear to want to make wrt two different ways of looking at the idea of 'day'. But personally, I appreciate your effort to try to be on-topic here. For more reading on the Piltdown matter, here is a site built by one of the old talk.origins regulars, Richard Harter: http://home.tiac.net/~cri_a/piltdown/piltdown.html > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > You appear to have stumbled upon some archaeology. Well done! Why would I wish to listen to an utter fool who believes the Earth rotates through 360 degrees in 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds when most of humanity already knows the correct value and correlation which keeps clocks in sync with axial rotation at precisely 15 degrees per hour. Humanity could hardly prepare itself for the most obvious error ever adhered to,even Piltdown man is a tiny compared to the empirical agenda which built concepts on tying axial rotation directly to celestial sphere geometry through the calendar system. You want to talk about something else but there is no point,a person who descends to sub-human levels in knowingly sticking with an utterly dumb view things can't really. comment on anything else,at least in terms of archaeology. Maybe you can russle up a story where John Harrison,working of the older principles of sundials/Equation of Time designed a clock that registered axial rotation at 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds through 360 degrees but I assure you his clocks were designed on the equivalency of 4 minutes for each degree of rotation making 24 hours through 360 degrees. Too impressed with yourselves to know what was destroyed and no intutive intelligence to grasp basic correlations which most of humanity already knows,what have you left to offer ?.The answer is nothing only to be convenient props for people who believe in time travel,multiple universes and goodness knows what other novelistic trash they can dump on humanity. I did not even bother to read the rest of your reply. > The true upshot of the affair Piltdown is that the archaeological > discipline did indeed learn its lessons. Piltdown was an extreme [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > http://home.tiac.net/~cri_a/piltdown/piltdown.html <snip> > > You appear to have stumbled upon some archaeology. Well done! > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > keeps clocks in sync with axial rotation at precisely 15 degrees per > hour. Forgot the question mark there, Gerald. And you are wrong. I know that the length of day is 24 hours by the clock. Everyone knows this, and uses this. You are beating a patch of grass where once, very long ago, a horse pissed. I also know that, for specialized astronomic and calendrical purposes, it is necessary to realize that the time it takes for a place on the earth to face the same distant star is ca. 4 minutes shorter than 24 hours. You can't seriously believe that astronomers ought use a day of 24 hours when investigating the heavens. Can you? And the reason you ought to listen to this fool? Because this fool can read ng titles, and knows what archaeology involves and what it does not. That you don't know makes you...what? I'm going with 'putz'. But only because you are mentally ill, and I want to give you a little break on that account. > Humanity could hardly prepare itself for the most obvious error ever > adhered to,even Piltdown man is a tiny compared to the empirical [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > I did not even bother to read the rest of your reply. Pity. It was some of my better work. And it was related to archaeology. You came *this* close to being on- topic. Ah well, at least your monomania is a fixed point in this ever-moving world that spins once in each 24 hours, and once in every 23 hours 56 minutes and 29 seconds. > > The true upshot of the affair Piltdown is that the archaeological > > discipline did indeed learn its lessons. Piltdown was an extreme [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > >http://home.tiac.net/~cri_a/piltdown/piltdown.html > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > hours. You can't seriously believe that astronomers ought use a day of > 24 hours when investigating the heavens. Can you? An archaeologist,who most certainly have come across sundials and still argues against the 24 hour/360 degree correlation !!,who would have thought this ? The great timekeeping astronomers never appealed to the distant stars in creating the clock/axial rotation correlation at 15 degrees per hour making exactly 24 hours in total.The 24 hour day is a human devised principle created out of the noon cycle and the variations in the Total length of a day.Do you see any hint of distant stars in determining the equable 24 hour day and how one 24 hour day elapses into the next 24 hour day ?.If people like you were involved there would be no such thing as the succession of days,Monday,Tuesday ect and that is how bad you actually are. When Copernicus realised that the daily cycle is caused by the rotation of the Earth,it allowed the heliocentric astronomers to overlay the Equation of Time system as a geographical seperation of 4 minutes clock time for each degree of rotation.They transfered the average 24 hour day derived from the Equation of Time which allowed them to treat axial rotation as being constant,whether it was or not. It takes a minimal effort to see how the average 24 hour day (a human devised principle) became 'constant' axial rotation,at least for the purposes where clocks keep in sync with axial rotation.You ungreatful creature will use the ancient system today and for the rest of your existence while managing to deny the two step process from which it emerged. > And the reason you ought to listen to this fool? Because this fool can > read ng titles, and knows what archaeology involves and what it does > not. That you don't know makes you...what? > > I'm going with 'putz'. But only because you are mentally ill, and I > want to give you a little break on that account. Call me what you will,you are the one trying to justify the Earth's axial rotation in 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds when every shread of archaeological evidence from neolithic structures to heliocentric astronomy,from sundials to mechanical clocks tell you otherwise. As archaeologists,or accurate commentators of ancient and not so ancient achievements,you are imposters for no successful person would allow a silly and stupid mistake from the late 17th century remain. > > Humanity could hardly prepare itself for the most obvious error ever > > adhered to,even Piltdown man is a tiny compared to the empirical [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > world that spins once in each 24 hours, and once in every 23 hours 56 > minutes and 29 seconds. In whose eyes do you impress,not the brilliant men who created the systems which you will use today.I could forgive the error of Flamsteed for it was a means to an end however Newton is a different matter and that shades off into outright fraud.You can tell it is fraud because empiricists now believe in time travel which is the contrapuctal opposite of what ancient studies should stand for. How does it feel to have a basic problem with the 24 hour day and natural phenomena ?,you do realise that the creationists now have evolved elaborate ways to explain their ideologies and they certainly learned from you kind.for you manage not to appreciate how the clock/ axial correlation came about. > > > The true upshot of the affair Piltdown is that the archaeological > > > discipline did indeed learn its lessons. Piltdown was an extreme [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > > - Show quoted text - The problems are all yours - http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/JennyChen.shtml > >Doug, As long as you respond to him the longer he will keep posting. You > >know that. You also know this guy has serious problems and you can't fix [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Doug's Archaeology Site:http://www.ramtops.co.uk > Amun - co-owner/co-moderatorhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/ > >Doug, As long as you respond to him the longer he will keep posting. You > >know that. You also know this guy has serious problems and you can't fix [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > its precepts as Christians use in affirming the Life of > Christ,sometimes intricate and subtle but never difficult. " I am a Christian who practices part of my faith in a denominational Catholic setting,very proud of the actual involvement of these Christians in astronomy unlike the myths that have sprung up about opposition to Copernicus and the heliocentric system.Copernicus was apprehensive about people like yourselves,dull people who would mishandle the information he presented and indeed it eventually happened through the Flamsteed and Newton.The letter which prefaced De Revolutionibus of Copernicus was to the Pope explaining why he was reluctant to propose his system and it certainly was not Church opposition - http://webexhibits.org/calendars/year-text-Copernicus.html The point is that empiricism forced Church opposition on Copernicus,at least that is the story that exists for contemporary popular consumption, in order to demonstrate that their line of reasoning represented an enlightened heritage against religious ignorance when nothing could be further from the truth. You archaeologists turn out to be little more than cardboard cutout props in a distorted version of events,people who can manufacture history to support whatever conclusions you care to draw,up to and including the attack on the faith of good and simple people.You mock yourselves therefore I have little need to add further to your miserable condition however you do present an enormous obstacle to the real achievements of our ancestors in matters which require intutive intelligence. Did you not learn your lessons from Piltdown man about manufacturing history to suit and agenda but I assure you that the one centering on the clock/axial rotation correlation is many magnitudes greater than the Piltdown man hoax. > And some apposite quotes from posters in response to him: > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Doug's Archaeology Site:http://www.ramtops.co.uk > Amun - co-owner/co-moderatorhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/ > > >Doug, As long as you respond to him the longer he will keep posting. You > > >know that. You also know this guy has serious problems and you can't fix [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I could have sworn that it was Galileo that caught the flak for the heliocentric idea. On Feb 13, 9:39 pm, Doug Weller <dwel...@ramtops.removethis.co.uk> wrote: > http://tinyurl.com/22ttmk > -- > Doug Weller -- > A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'athttp://www.hallofmaat.com > Doug's Archaeology Site:http://www.ramtops.co.uk > Amun - co-owner/co-moderatorhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/ Quote from article ''They performed a "Monte Carlo" analysis in which a computer randomly generates more than 10 billion equilateral octagons, randomly aligned them to a compass bearing and then checked how many astronomically significant alignments resulted.'' Anyone with enough programing skill to test the outcome if randomly generated equilateral octagons are deliberatedly aligned to compass bearings within an range that is selected from what was plausible for man to achieve. JerryT >On Feb 13, 9:39 pm, Doug Weller <dwel...@ramtops.removethis.co.uk> >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >bearings within an range >that is selected from what was plausible for man to achieve. Jerry, you are usually much more intelligible than that. What were you trying to say? Eric Stevens > >On Feb 13, 9:39 pm, Doug Weller <dwel...@ramtops.removethis.co.uk> > >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Eric Stevens let the one who draw the first line be blind and dizzy? East and west take one day of sunlight and the pole star one night and some hot Yerba mate. JjT JjT On Feb 13, 2:39 pm, Doug Weller <dwel...@ramtops.removethis.co.uk> wrote: > http://tinyurl.com/22ttmk > -- > Doug Weller -- > A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'athttp://www.hallofmaat.com > Doug's Archaeology Site:http://www.ramtops.co.uk > Amun - co-owner/co-moderatorhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/ I was there in November. It suprised and disgusted me that access to the area is limited to just a few days a year. The rest of the time, you can tee off from the entrance to the Octagon and drive down between the connecting walls to find the green in the Circle. If you are a country club member. |
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