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History Forum / General / Archaeology / February 2007



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Longitude and the Equation of Time

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oriel36 - 22 Feb 2007 17:00 GMT
http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC00889697&id=zWffvdGSTWIC&pg=RA3-PA50&lpg=R
A3-PA50&dq=longitude+chronometer#PRA3-PA51,M1


Page 48 - 52

So what have you all against one of the most delightful correlations
ever devised by human reasoning,this small article is fine for
proposing the only acceptable value which links clocks to axial
rotation.

If the link works then fine,if not,then there are plenty of different
way to appreciate the magnificent achievement where the ancient
Equation of Time correction which creates the 24 hour day was given a
new twist by the great Western astronomers when axial rotation was
discovered.

It would be wonderful if there were archaeologists here but apparently
there are none,only cardboard cutout props used to support idiotic
conceptions.
Eric Stevens - 22 Feb 2007 20:25 GMT
>http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC00889697&id=zWffvdGSTWIC&pg=RA3-PA50&lpg=R
A3-PA50&dq=longitude+chronometer#PRA3-PA51,M1

>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>there are none,only cardboard cutout props used to support idiotic
>conceptions.

Not a bad book for 1837.

You should refer to page 28.

Eric Stevens
oriel36 - 22 Feb 2007 21:01 GMT
> >http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC00889697&id=zWffvdGSTWIC&pg=RA3...
>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

The Total length of the daily cycle varies hence the neccessity of the
Equation of Time to equalise the variations to equable 24 hours and
keep those 24 hours seamlessly  elapsing into the next 24 hours.That
author  in 1837 unfortunately observes (on page 50 ) that the Sun
appears to travel at 15 degrees per hour but this is incorrect,if it
did there would be no need for the Equation of Time.

The author ,after correctly  telling his readers  on page 51 that you
need to apply the Equation of Time to correlate clock time with civil
longitudes in terms of 24 hour/360 degrees , as the natural day is
unequal,tells his readers on page 28 that a location rotates to the
Sun in exactly 24 hours.

If you have difficulties accepting that the length of the natural
cycle is unequal and that the Equation of Time is neccessity to reduce
natural noon to 24 hour clock noon,then why refer me to page 28 which
determines that the Sun returns to a meridian in exactly 24 hours -

http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC00889697&id=zWffvdGSTWIC&pg=RA3-PA50&lpg=R
A3-PA50&dq=longitude+chronometer#PRA3-PA28,M1


Have you not heard of the Longitude story or how sundials and the
Equation of Time works to create the human devised principle of the 24
hour day ?,obviously not.

Who would ever have thought that archaeologists,at least I think you
are archaeologists,would try to manufacture a history that overturns
the basic correlation between sundials,the Equation of Time and the 24
hour day and how it was transfered to the clock/axial rotation at 15
degrees per hour making 24 hours in total.

Tell me what your sidereal value gives for the correlation of clocks
and axial rotation per hour ?.That is how ridiculous you are with the
most basic known fact.
Eric Stevens - 22 Feb 2007 23:05 GMT
>> >http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC00889697&id=zWffvdGSTWIC&pg=RA3...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>cycle is unequal and that the Equation of Time is neccessity to reduce
>natural noon to 24 hour clock noon,then why refer me to page 28 ...

Because it explains the difference between solar and sidereal time.

The author was explaining it to school kids in 1837 and yet you seem
to find the idea too hard to accept.

> ... which
>determines that the Sun returns to a meridian in exactly 24 hours -
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>and axial rotation per hour ?.That is how ridiculous you are with the
>most basic known fact.

Eric Stevens
oriel36 - 23 Feb 2007 11:17 GMT
> >> >http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC00889697&id=zWffvdGSTWIC&pg=RA3...
>
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
> The author was explaining it to school kids in 1837 and yet you seem
> to find the idea too hard to accept.

The difference between the solar day and the sidereal day is the same
as the difference between micky mouse and donald duck,they are
concepts that exist only in the imagination and are believed by those
who know no better.

The Equation of Time principles I have shown you are the basis of the
equable 24 hour day,you can actually see how that 24 hour clock day
was created by brilliant  men and then applied to terrestrial
longitudes,it is so well known through the Longitude story that only
with the greatest courtesy can I bring myself to  respond to a person
who assigns an alternative value (23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds) for
clocks and axial rotation.

Is there so sort of perverse satisfaction is adhering to a solar/
sidereal conception for the Earth's axialand orbital motions based on
the calendar system ?.

John Harrison knew who he was dealing with,a slovenly bunch of
miserable and mediocre creatures who hate anything that is good and
worthwhile -

" But indeed, had I continued under the hands of the rude
commissioners, this completion,  or great accomplishment, neither
would, nor could, ever have been obtained; but however, providence
otherwise ordered the matter, and I  can now boldly say, that if the
provision for the heat and cold could  properly be in the balance
itself, as it is in the pendulum, the watch [or my longitude
time-keeper] would then perform to a few seconds in a year, yea, to
such perfection now are imaginary impossibilities conquered; so the
priests at Cambridge and Oxford, &c. may cease their pursuit in the
longitude affair, and as otherwise  then to occupy their time."
John Harrison

I have no intention of watching you lot maintain ideologies that
destroy the careful work of many civilisations so that you can be
impressed with yourselves.

> > ... which
> >determines that the Sun returns to a meridian in exactly 24 hours -
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
Tedd Jacobs - 23 Feb 2007 03:38 GMT
"oriel36" wrote...

<snip>

> It would be wonderful if there were archaeologists here but apparently
> there are none,only cardboard cutout props used to support idiotic
> conceptions.

want to talk archaeology?  try actually presenting some.
Doug Weller - 23 Feb 2007 09:45 GMT
><snip>
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>want to talk archaeology?  try actually presenting some.

In the astronomy and geology groups where he mainly preaches he is
considered a kook or at best (worst?) a troll, and usually killfiled.

I say preaches because he really does think you need "a Christian faith"
as he puts it to deal with the topics he preaches about.

He has almost destroyed the UK archaeology newsgroup.

Ignore him.

Doug
Signature

Doug Weller --
A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk
Amun - co-owner/co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/

oriel36 - 23 Feb 2007 17:07 GMT
On Feb 23, 9:45 am, Doug Weller <dwel...@ramtops.removethis.co.uk>
wrote:

> ><snip>
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> I say preaches because he really does think you need "a Christian faith"
> as he puts it to deal with the topics he preaches about.

Intutive intelligence is that human faculty which recognises all that
is great in human endeavor be it music,art,the Life of Jesus or the
great efforts of our ancestors in creating the timekeeping systems we
use today,those who often reject faith are often those of great
intellectual  intelligence with no intutive intelligence.

In the matter of timekeeping ,intutive intelligence  is  a matter of
affirming or rejecting proposals based on physical considerations and
there is absolutely nothing in ancient or heliocentric  astronomy that
supports the correlation between axial rotation and the sidereal value
of 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds .There are no parallels  in  history
remotely comparing to the late 17th century error  which introduced
celestial sphere/astrological geometry into heliocentric reasoning and
it is  extremely counter-productive in content and character,even the
geocentric thinking of Ptolemaic astronomers is far superior to what
passes itself off as astronomy today.

With no sense that anything is destroyed and little intutive
intelligence to set it right,God help humanity from this anti-intutive
era.You insult yourselves,that is your punishment for following after
people who took shortcuts with the jewels of structural and
timekeeping astronomy.

> He has almost destroyed the UK archaeology newsgroup.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Doug's Archaeology Site:http://www.ramtops.co.uk
> Amun - co-owner/co-moderatorhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/
oriel36 - 23 Feb 2007 11:54 GMT
> "oriel36" wrote...
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> want to talk archaeology?  try actually presenting some.

Archaeology is not social forensics, for we are immigrants of our past
and should come to know just how remarkable some of our ancestors are
and not knowingly destroy their works.I see the work of these people
as a testament to the great efforts of men and I am extremely proud of
understanding many of those features which we still use today.

I know this era too well,it turns our ancestors into puppet creations
acting out whatever conclusion enters your heads instead of allowing
these people to dictate their own history,for good or for bad.

In the matter of human involvement in astronomy and timekeeping
systems,a holocaust actually exists.The late 17 century guys bent
older,noble and more careful work into supporting ridiculous concepts
that not prove counter-productive for this era,specifically in
climatology.

When each of you has the ability to restoring the older core
principles which we still use today you crawl back into an empirical
shell and squeek out a stupid solar/sidereal concept .Is the exquisite
jewels of astronomical timekeeping not enough for you and especially
the intricate way they got the older Equation of Time/24 hour  system
to mesh with the discovery of axial rotation.

You want archaeology without the great timekeeping facet which winds
its way through human endeavor from ancient times then so be it.You
will soon discover that its absense leaves you with nothing.
Tom McDonald - 23 Feb 2007 20:50 GMT
> > "oriel36" wrote...
>
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> its way through human endeavor from ancient times then so be it.You
> will soon discover that its absense leaves you with nothing.

Want to post on an archaeology ng? Post some archaeology. So far, the
closest you got was an aside about Piltdown.

I begin to suspect you have no idea what archaeology is.
Doug Weller - 23 Feb 2007 21:25 GMT
>I begin to suspect you have no idea what archaeology is.

He doesn't care. He Knows The Truth and his mission is to Preach The
Truth. No room for discussion, no interest in the purpose of the newsgroup
-- for him, it exists only as a forum for his preaching.

Doug
Signature

Doug Weller --
A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk
Amun - co-owner/co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/

Tedd Jacobs - 23 Feb 2007 21:45 GMT
"Doug Weller" wrote...

>>I begin to suspect you have no idea what archaeology is.
>
> He doesn't care. He Knows The Truth and his mission is to Preach The
> Truth. No room for discussion, no interest in the purpose of the newsgroup
> -- for him, it exists only as a forum for his preaching.

respite--respite and nepenthe from thy preaching of truth;
quaff, oh quaff this kind nepenthe and forget this lost time

"prophet" say i, "thing of evil! prophet still, if loon or troll!--
whether tempter sent or tempest tossed thee here ashore,
desolate yet all undaunted, on this usenet land enchanted--
on this home of horror haunted-- tell me truely, i emplore--
is there, /is/ there balm in gilead?-- tell me, i implore"

quoth the loon-- "The Equation of Time principles I have shown you are the
basis of the equable 24 hour day,you can actually see how that 24 hour clock
day
was created by brilliant  men and then applied to terrestrial longitudes,it
is so well known through the Longitude story that only with the greatest
courtesy can I bring myself to  respond to a person who assigns an
alternative value (23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds) for clocks and axial
rotation................
oriel36 - 24 Feb 2007 11:01 GMT
You call me one thing or another and that is fine but I have still yet
to see a genuine commentator recognise that the creation of the 24
hour day through the Equation of Time correction was the work of
brilliant and careful people who recognised that the Total length of
the  natural daily cycle,as determined at noon,was unequal.

Your empirical cult believes otherwise and determines that the daily
cycle is 24 hours exactly and then tries to justify the Earth axial
rotation by using the return of a star to a meridian -

http://www.astro.cornell.edu/academics/courses/astro201/sidereal.htm

Copernicus resolved the behavior of the observed motion of the outer
planets by showing that the faster orbitally moving Earth overtaking
the slower forward  moving outer planets caused them to temporarily
fall behind -

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0112/JuSa2000_tezel.gif

That is actual time lapse footage of Jupiter and Saturn and the faster
Earth overtaking them.This left axial rotation to explain the daily
cycle and from this important piece of information the heliocentric
timekeeping astronomers set about adapting the Equation of Time
system.

Why would a group of people,especially those who make it their
business to study ancient and recent human achievements choose to
believe that a location on Earth  rotates to face the Sun every 24
hours even though it has been known from antiquity that this does not
occur hence the Equation of Time correction ?.

> "Doug Weller" wrote...
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> alternative value (23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds) for clocks and axial
> rotation................
Eric Stevens - 24 Feb 2007 22:52 GMT
>You call me one thing or another and that is fine but I have still yet
>to see a genuine commentator recognise that the creation of the 24
>hour day through the Equation of Time correction was the work of
>brilliant and careful people who recognised that the Total length of
>the  natural daily cycle,as determined at noon,was unequal.

"the Total length of the  natural daily cycle,as determined at
noon,was unequal" - unequal to what?

  ... aah - never mind.

>Your empirical cult believes otherwise and determines that the daily
>cycle is 24 hours exactly and then tries to justify the Earth axial
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
>> alternative value (23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds) for clocks and axial
>> rotation................

Eric Stevens
oriel36 - 25 Feb 2007 11:36 GMT
> >You call me one thing or another and that is fine but I have still yet
> >to see a genuine commentator recognise that the creation of the 24
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>    ... aah - never mind.

You clearly understand that you are arguing against the correlation
which keeps clocks in sync with axial rotation and this is probably
one of the greatest human achievements known,a product of the Equation
of Time correction which recognises that no two  natural daily
cycles,as determined at noon, are equal in length.

You ask " unequal to what" and the only answer can be to the genius of
human ingenuity which creates the 24 hour day,keeps one 24 hour cycle
elapsing seamlessy into the next  24 hour cycle  (Monday turns into
Tuesday,Tuesday turns into Wedneday...) and which in turns provides
the basis of a calendar system.The calendar system is a brilliant
extension of the 24 hour day by equalising the annual cyclical
length,as calculated by 24 hours days into a linear form as
progression of years.

Never mind indeed !,what can be said of individuals who cannot even
promote the simple fact that the natural daily cycles are unequal and
how men devised a system which creates the 24 hour day as recognition
of the care our ancestors took in noting the astronomical cycles and
how they evolved when heliocentric reasoning emerged through the
Copernican discoveries.

> >Your empirical cult believes otherwise and determines that the daily
> >cycle is 24 hours exactly and then tries to justify the Earth axial
[quoted text clipped - 50 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
Eric Stevens - 25 Feb 2007 19:36 GMT
>> >You call me one thing or another and that is fine but I have still yet
>> >to see a genuine commentator recognise that the creation of the 24
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>of Time correction which recognises that no two  natural daily
>cycles,as determined at noon, are equal in length.

I don't clearly understand anything of the kind.

Nor do you understand that a single thing on it's own can be neither
'equal' nor 'unequal' unless you compare it to another thing. Your
logic is faulty and so is you use of the english language.

>You ask " unequal to what" and the only answer can be to the genius of
>human ingenuity which creates the 24 hour day,keeps one 24 hour cycle
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>how they evolved when heliocentric reasoning emerged through the
>Copernican discoveries.

You, sir, are unequal.

Unequal to what, I will leave you to decide.

  ---- snip ----

Eric Stevens
oriel36 - 26 Feb 2007 16:14 GMT
> >> >You call me one thing or another and that is fine but I have still yet
> >> >to see a genuine commentator recognise that the creation of the 24
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> 'equal' nor 'unequal' unless you compare it to another thing. Your
> logic is faulty and so is you use of the english language.

The natural unequal length of the daily cycle,as determined at noon as
opposed to the human devised  equable 24 hour cycle,as determined by
the noon Equation of Time correction.

This is becoming embarrassing,for if you truly wish to believe that a
location rotates to face the Sun in 24 hours exactly then there is
little I can do convince you otherwise.I should have received support
for a shared astronomical timekeeping heritage which recognises why
the Equation of Time is neccessary to bridge natural noon from clock
noon insofar as the principles are the most commonly used convenience
on the planet and an incredible human achievement.

My involvement in this forum extends only to promoting how clocks
evolved from earlier devices such as sundials and how it grafts in
with the heliocentric discovery of axial rotation and how clocks keep
in sync with axial rotation via the Equation of Time correction and I
have kept structural astronomy to a bare minimum is explaining how the
average 24 hour day was overlayed on terrestrail longitudes and how
they adopted a stance of  constant axial rotation for the  pragmatic
purpose of 4 minutes clock time for 1 degree of geographical
seperation.

This pretensious  business of celestial sphere geometry (23 hours 56
min 04 sec)  is only a more damaging version of Piltdown man and
nobody really cares about the last century's exotic ideas of warped
space and time travel which emerged as the symptoms of the unattended
late 17th century error which tied axial rotation to constellational
geometry.

Your community owes it to humanity to at least reflect how brilliant
men devised the 24 hour cycle from the variations in length of the
natural cycle,if you cannot do that then you become part of a
terrible,terrible problem.

> >You ask " unequal to what" and the only answer can be to the genius of
> >human ingenuity which creates the 24 hour day,keeps one 24 hour cycle
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
oriel36 - 24 Feb 2007 10:46 GMT
On Feb 23, 9:25 pm, Doug Weller <dwel...@ramtops.removethis.co.uk>
wrote:

> >I begin to suspect you have no idea what archaeology is.
>
> He doesn't care. He Knows The Truth and his mission is to Preach The
> Truth. No room for discussion, no interest in the purpose of the newsgroup
> -- for him, it exists only as a forum for his preaching.

Look at the names of the  institutions that promote an incorrect
correlation between clocks and axial rotation -

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/JennyChen.shtml

That careless 17th century cartoon conception would not exist if you
lot were doing your jobs and even though you have the ability to
promote the creation of the equable 24 hour day as one of the greatest
achievements devised by humans,through  the noon Equation of Time
correction,you purposely support an act of vandalism that believes
that a location rotates to face the Sun in exactly 24 hours.

The shared,do you hear,the shared astronomical heritage  to which the
24 hour/360 degree correlation belongs is a facet of a sprawling
astronomical picture that is being neglected for counter-productive
concepts originating with Newton,the shortcuts ,bordering on
fraud,these guys took is breathtaking and many nmagnitudes worse than
Piltdown.I have chosen the clock/axial rotation correlation as the
thin end of a very big wedge for unless you get the basic principle
right in terms of how clocks keep pace with axial rotation,you can
forget everything else if you choose the wrong or alternative value
and conception.

I did not make myself an authority on these things,you made me an
authority by being utterly irresponsible with the history of human
involvement in structural and timekeeping astronomy.I have asked and
will ask  for nothing  but I will make you look at what our ancestors
achieved and how they achieved it,I can even show you exactly where
less careful men jumped the tracks.

You want a discussion and I will give you one but certainly not
descending to an intellectual level where yuo can't even recognise the
most obvious and basic fact that you will probably look at 10 times
today when you look at a hand sweeping across the face of a clock.The
embodiment of many millenia of sorting and sifting by many
civilisations and you still make an idiotic conclusion.

> Doug
> --
> Doug Weller --
> A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'athttp://www.hallofmaat.com
> Doug's Archaeology Site:http://www.ramtops.co.uk
> Amun - co-owner/co-moderatorhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/
oriel36 - 24 Feb 2007 10:28 GMT
> > > "oriel36" wrote...
>
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

The creation oif the 24 hour day by brilliant men is probably one of
humanity's greatest achievements ,the adaption of the 24 hour day to
axial rotation where the pace of a clock keeps in sync with axial
rotation is also one of the most pragmatic and basic facts known to
humanity.

Now,given that you numbskulls can't even get a basic fact right
insofar as you assign an alterantive value to axial rotation through
360 degrees and clcoks,specifically the value of 23 hours 56 minutes
04 seconds,I do not give a damn what you think or your pathetic
appeals.The work of very careful men is being overshadowed by careless
concepts from the late 17th century even as you miserable creatures
still use the clock/axial rotation correlation of 24 hours/360 degrees
is something else.

A fool is not capable of suspecting anything especially the most
obvious known fact that almost of the people on the planet
recognise,as people who profess an interest in ancient civilisations
and what they achievced,the very fact that you can ignore the recent
history of the Longitude story and how clocks resolved them must take
quite an effort.

You are too feebleminded to be part of any further discussion but I
would appeal to responsible people here to act with a little bit of
backbone in this very important matter.The creation of the 24 hour day
is a human creation with roots in most disciplines,the fact that
people here can act with authority and represent as accuarely as
possible how the human genius of the 24 hour day came to be adapted to
the Copernican principle of axial rotation as a cause for the daily
cycle.
Matt Giwer - 25 Feb 2007 04:53 GMT
> http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC00889697&id=zWffvdGSTWIC&pg=RA3-PA50&lpg=R
A3-PA50&dq=longitude+chronometer#PRA3-PA51,M1

>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> there are none,only cardboard cutout props used to support idiotic
> conceptions.

    I first noticed your inability to comprehend time keeping when I show you how
to lay out the octagon structure using a stick in the ground. You appear
compelled to making things more complicated than they are.

    There are things which are difficult to work out but you haven't come near those.

    You appear to have a problem with 365.24xxxx against 365 calendar days.

    As with the stick, your pappy sat in his favorite place and waved you back and
forth until you put the stick exactly where the sun was the highest in the sky.
You have been looking at it at night and you notice the stars are always falling
a little behind that spot each year. Meanwhile your uncle invents writing and
you use it to keep records of how far behind as does your son and grandson. You
great grandson realizes the difference is roughly 1/4 of a day.

    5000 years later, you are impressed with a century and a half of observation
refined over the next few centuries.

    5000 years later, the rest of us are not impressed.

Signature

American troops in Iraq have to know they are risking their lives for people
who hate them.
    -- The Iron Webmaster, 3727
 nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
 Iraqi democracy http://www.giwersworld.org/911/armless.phtml a3

oriel36 - 25 Feb 2007 11:35 GMT
> >http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC00889697&id=zWffvdGSTWIC&pg=RA3...
>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
>         You appear to have a problem with 365.24xxxx against 365 calendar days.

The creation of the 24 hour day is probably one of the greatest known
achievements of humanity for practical purposes and it involves the
simple recognition that no two daily cycles,as determined at noon,are
equal in length.No location rotates to face the Sun in exactly 24
hours which is why the noon Equation of Time correction equalises the
variations to a 24 hour average cycle and keeps these equable 24
cycles cycles elasping into each other.It is supposed to be celebrated
as incontrovertible among archaeologists insofar as it is a humn
devised principle  but look at your response.

To create a 1461 calendar cycle based on 3 years of 365 days and 1
year of 366 days you require the equable 24 hour day by which the
annual cycle is determined,somehow you manage to bypass the creation
of the 24 hour cycle and how it is created through the Equation of
Time and the ancient knowledge that no two cycles,as determined at
noon,are equal.

>         As with the stick, your pappy sat in his favorite place and waved you back and
> forth until you put the stick exactly where the sun was the highest in the sky.
> You have been looking at it at night and you notice the stars are always falling
> a little behind that spot each year. Meanwhile your uncle invents writing and
> you use it to keep records of how far behind as does your son and grandson. You
> great grandson realizes the difference is roughly 1/4 of a day.

It is no wonder so much careful astronomical  work,including the
historically  recent Copernican insight and the Keplerian refinements
remain destroyed.

Any person here would give their right arm to know where that quarter
of a day goes each year in order that the leap day correction is
applied every 4th year.The answer is that you cannot mix up two
systems such as the Equation of Time system which creates the 24 hour
day with its complimentary calendrical extension which is a 1461 day
cycle.

Your crowd use the calendrical system to justify the Earth's motions -

http://www.astro.cornell.edu/academics/courses/astro201/sidereal.htm

You imagine you are working with a value of 365 days 5 hours 49
minutes but in actuality you are working with a system of 3 years of
365 days and 1 year of 366 days,better still,people like Flamsteed and
Newton thought this and their error has gone unoticed for centuries.

>         5000 years later, you are impressed with a century and a half of observation
> refined over the next few centuries.
>
>         5000 years later, the rest of us are not impressed.

You are indeed being honest here,not a shread of remorse that the most
obvious human achievement in how our ancestors created the equable 24
hour day and all its productive facets out of the natural unequal
daily cycle.

Piltdown man is nothing compared to concepts which shroud the human
devised principles which create the 24 hour day and how it is applied
to the clock/axial rotation correlation and who would dare argue to
the contrary.

I never doubted that most people here now know how the 24 hour day was
adapted by the timekeeping astronomers when axial rotation was
discovered insofar as the average 24 hour day was used to create a
correlation between 4 minutes for each degree of geographical
seperation.The fact remains that they will still support an
alternative correlation that exists in the imagination of people who
undid the work of brilliant men and that makes it a holocaust.

> --
> American troops in Iraq have to know they are risking their lives for people
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
Matt Giwer - 27 Feb 2007 03:39 GMT
>>> http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC00889697&id=zWffvdGSTWIC&pg=RA3...
>>> Page 48 - 52
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>>
>>         You appear to have a problem with 365.24xxxx against 365 calendar days.

> The creation of the 24 hour day is probably one of the greatest known
> achievements of humanity for practical purposes and it involves the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> as incontrovertible among archaeologists insofar as it is a humn
> devised principle  but look at your response.

    Are you are stupid as you are pretending or are you not pretending?

    The difference is obvious by making the day and night observation I described.

    It is no more difficult than that. Even you could do it. It is not impressive
at all.

Signature

Will the Iraq surge be remembered along with WWI attempts to break through
the western front?
    -- The Iron Webmaster, 3743
 nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
 Blame Israel http://www.ussliberty.org a10

oriel36 - 27 Feb 2007 12:02 GMT
> >>>http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC00889697&id=zWffvdGSTWIC&pg=RA3...
> >>> Page 48 - 52
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>         It is no more difficult than that. Even you could do it. It is not impressive
> at all.

You deserve each other,there is no doubt about that.

I would not care if any of you ever appreciated how the 24 hour day
was created out of the unequal length of the natural daily cycle,these
things are so exquisite that they do not admit appreciation by fools
who construct things after their own liking and care not for the
efforts of many great men over many eras and civilisations.

At least you are vocal and that is in your favor,those who reason that
silence is the best policy have the worse possible fate,if it can be
called that.Men who create fables,either technical or
historical,eventually are found out  and that you lot support an
ideology which rejects the creation of the equable  24 hour day and
its correlation to clocks,terrestrial longitudes and axial
rotation ,leaves you in a far worse position than those who supported
Piltdown man as a consensual advantageous proposal.

There may be genuine people who can make a difference and promote the
actual human achievement through the Equation of Time correction which
generates the 24 hour day out of the natural unequal day but it of
little use if they are not vocal about it.Saving future generations
from the late 17th century error is heroic for it involves so much of
human history in terms of discoveries,achievements and the integrity
of human knowledge in contrast to the meaningless bluff and bluster
that accompanies  those who live by trivia and have no intellectual or
intutive roots .

People live or fall by how they grow in wisdom and develop their
understandings,the actual principles which create the 24 hour day and
how it was adapted to axial rotation are comparable to any of the
great works of music,art and literature when appreciated
properly.There is no single answer but rather the ability to adopt the
correct working principles which our ancestors set out and improve on
them where possible,unfortunately an error in principle occured in the
late 17th century which turned a productive arena into a barren and
sterile one.

You can knowingly turn your faces away from the Longitudestory which
contains much of what I have already said and indeed many of the false
elements that were brought in to support celestial sphere geometry and
this convicts you more than anything else.Your call.

> --
> Will the Iraq surge be remembered along with WWI attempts to break through
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
Matt Giwer - 28 Feb 2007 00:08 GMT
>>>>> http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC00889697&id=zWffvdGSTWIC&pg=RA3...
>>>>> Page 48 - 52
[quoted text clipped - 72 lines]
> elements that were brought in to support celestial sphere geometry and
> this convicts you more than anything else.Your call.

    OK. You are not pretending.

Signature

If we were fighting WWII VJ day Iraq would have been in October 2006.
    -- The Iron Webmaster, 3721
 nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
 commentary http://www.giwersworld.org/opinion/running.phtml a5

oriel36 - 28 Feb 2007 10:36 GMT
On Feb 28, 12:08 am, Matt Giwer <jul...@tampabay.REMover.rr.com>
wrote:
> >>>>>http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC00889697&id=zWffvdGSTWIC&pg=RA3...
> >>>>> Page 48 - 52
[quoted text clipped - 74 lines]
>
>         OK. You are not pretending.

Archaeologists who cannot even get the basic correlation at the core
of the Longitude story are hardly archaeologists,most of it being
recent history covering topics such as human invention and human
devised principles which keep clocks in sync with the daily cycle
caused by the rotation of the Earth.

Obviously you can go on ignoring that you adhere to an idea that a
location rotates to face the Sun in exactly 24 hours even though it
has been known from antiquity that no two cycles,as determined at
noon,are the same length.Piltdown man is nothing compared to the
adherence to a view which is sub-human in content and character while
being destructive and counter-productive on all counts.Looking at the
following Nasa explanation is incredible that people could actually
believe this let alone such an institution -

Period Of Rotation
"The actual value is 23 hours, 56 minutes and 4 seconds. This is the
length of a "sidereal" day. It is the actual time it takes the Earth
to rotate 360 degrees. The term "sidereal" (pronounced sigh-dear'-
real) refers to the rotation of the Earth being measured relative to
the stars. There ARE 24 hours in a "solar day". This is the time it
takes from one noon (sun overhead) to the next noon. The difference in
the two "days" arises from the fact that during a day the Earth also
travels nearly a degree further on its yearly trek around the Sun. "

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/JennyChen.shtml

To make the noon  Equation of Time correction disappear like that  is
an incredible feat yet this is exactly what these type of
explanations ,like the one above,attempt to do.The fact that people
who make it their business to accurately reflect the achievements of
humanity,and the creation of the 24 hour day is a dynamic
achievement,makes this all the more disappointing,at least for the
present.

Authority needs acts of courage and this is lacking here,while I will
grant that your discipline can make a huge difference,the fact that
you acted so slowly and so miserably wioth Piltdown Man affirms that
you did not learn your lessons about acting with courage when it is
needed.Nobody remembers or cares about the Piltdown man 'authorities'
yet humanity is indebted to those who took the step to jettisoned the
phony ideology and the pretensious atmosphere that bred it.

> --
> If we were fighting WWII VJ day Iraq would have been in October 2006.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
 
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