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Walking Small: Humanlike legs took Homo out of Africa

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Jack Linthicum - 28 Sep 2007 20:58 GMT
Hard to believe this one, but the "back to Africa" movement seems to
have occurred a least 1.77 million years ago if this account is
accurate. Home E and his predecessors seem to have made it as far as
Sakartvelo (Georgia). The description makes Piltdown Man sound like
the norm.

Science News Online

Week of Sept. 22, 2007; Vol. 172, No. 12
Walking Small: Humanlike legs took Homo out of Africa

Bruce Bower

The earliest known human ancestors that trekked from Africa into Asia
possessed legs, feet, and spines much like ours, even as they sported
relatively apelike arms and small brains, according to an analysis of
1.77-million-year-old fossils unearthed in the central Asian nation of
Georgia.

A team led by David Lordkipanidze of the Georgian National Museum in
Tbilisi recovered 33 lower-body bones from at least three adults and
one teenager at a site called Dmanisi. The researchers had previously
found four skulls and four lower jaws, as well as simple stone tools,
in the same sediment (SN: 5/13/00, p. 308). In several cases, skull
and lower-body remains come from the same individual.

The researchers classify these ancient finds as early Homo. The
fossils might be from an early form of Homo erectus that left eastern
Africa for the Asian hinterlands, but a definitive species identity
remains unclear, Lordkipanidze cautions. A description of the new
finds appears in the Sept. 20 Nature.

"The Dmanisi individuals weren't the first hominids [fossil ancestors
of humans] to leave Africa," Lordkipanidze says. "They must have had
more-primitive ancestors that passed through the Near East before
reaching Georgia."

An intriguing mosaic of anatomical traits characterizes the Dmanisi
folk. Their legs and spines closely resemble those of modern humans.
In particular, Dmanisi leg and foot bones would have efficiently
supported long-distance walking and running, the scientists assert.

However, the arms of Dmanisi hominids appear more like those of
australopithecines, an earlier line of hominids. For instance, unlike
people, the new specimens have upper arms that are straight rather
than slightly curved, their shoulders are relatively narrow, and their
palms are oriented forward rather than inward.

Moreover, the Dmanisi individuals are small compared with the oldest
known African H. erectus. That specimen, a 1.5-million-year-old
skeleton of a well-developed, roughly 10-year-old boy, stood tall at
between 151 and 169 centimeters and weighed as much as 70 kilograms.
At Dmanisi, adults reached estimated heights of between 145 and 166 cm
and weighed between 40 and 50 kg.

Such estimates coincide with Dmanisi brain volumes that were one-half
to two-thirds the size of modern human brains.

The Dmanisi fossils and early African H. erectus remains probably
represent separate populations of a species that evolved variations of
a common body plan as members settled different habitats, suggests
anthropologist Daniel E. Lieberman of Harvard University in a comment
published with the new report.

If the Dmanisi remains indeed belong to early H. erectus, members of
that species must have returned to Africa and evolved into a larger,
more modern-looking form by 1.5 million years ago, remarks
anthropologist William L. Jungers of Stony Brook (N.Y.) University
Medical Center. In his view, the Dmanisi foot bones were built for
long-distance walking but show no convincing sign of having supported
a fully modern running ability.

Jungers adds that the australopithecine-like arm traits in Dmanisi
individuals also appear in Homo floresiensis, Indonesian ancestors
that some researchers regard as modern humans with a developmental
disorder (SN: 11/18/06, p. 330). Jungers, however, contends that H.
floresiensis was a separate species that preserved some primitive
skeletal features, just as H. erectus did at Dmanisi.

References:

Lieberman, D.E. 2007. Homing in on early Homo. Nature 449(Sept. 20):
291-292.

Lordkipanidze, D., et al. 2007. Postcranial evidence from early Homo
from Dmanisi, Georgia. Nature 449(Sept. 20):305-310. Abstract
available at http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/nature06134.

Further Readings:

Bower, B. 2006. Evolution's mystery woman. Science News 170(Nov. 18):
330-331. Available to subscribers at http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20061118/bob9.asp.

______. 2000. Fossils hint at who left Africa first. Science News
157(May 13):308. Available to subscribers at
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20000513/fob1.asp.

Sources:

William L. Jungers
Department of Anatomical Sciences
Stony Brook University Medical Center
Stony Brook, NY 11794-8081

Daniel E. Lieberman
Department of Anthropology
Harvard University
Cambridge, MA 02138

David Lordkipanidze
Georgian National Museum
3 Purtseladze st.
0105 Tbilisi
Georgia

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20070922/fob1.asp

>From Science News, Vol. 172, No. 12, Sept. 22, 2007, p. 179.
Peter Jason - 28 Sep 2007 23:50 GMT
Easier to believe is the smallness of some
African mentalities.
Back to Australopithecines?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7014335.stm

> Hard to believe this one, but the "back to
> Africa" movement seems to
[quoted text clipped - 178 lines]
>>From Science News, Vol. 172, No. 12, Sept.
>>22, 2007, p. 179.
Melodious Thunk - 29 Sep 2007 19:11 GMT
On Sep 28, 12:58 pm, Jack Linthicum <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> Hard to believe this one, but the "back to Africa" movement seems to
> have occurred a least 1.77 million years ago if this account is
> accurate. Home E and his predecessors seem to have made it as far as
> Sakartvelo (Georgia). The description makes Piltdown Man sound like
> the norm.

You mean 'man' really *is* as old as (sub-bitumous) coal?

Gonna be some embarrased faces in the k00ks newsgroups!

> Science News Online
>
[quoted text clipped - 107 lines]
>
> >From Science News, Vol. 172, No. 12, Sept. 22, 2007, p. 179.
rick_sobie@hotmail.com - 29 Sep 2007 22:10 GMT
On Sep 28, 8:58 pm, Jack Linthicum <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> Hard to believe this one, but the "back to Africa" movement seems to
> have occurred a least 1.77 million years ago if this account is
[quoted text clipped - 53 lines]
> Such estimates coincide with Dmanisi brain volumes that were one-half
> to two-thirds the size of modern human brains.

Sounds like some sort of monkey to me. Humans have larger brains.

Is this a footprint? Well because it is on a biblical website people
will fight to the death to say that it is a rock carving even though
cross sectioning show depressions from the weight of the person.
http://www.bible.ca/tracks/burdick-track.htm

You see people say that these 325,000 year old prints in Italy in
volcanic ash are the oldest prints...
http://media.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3497

But then you have these in Mexico...
1.3 Million years old
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/11/051130232517.htm

Here is a picture of one of the prints...
http://s2.supload.com/free/clear_foot.jpg/view/

And then of course you have the Ed Conrad stuff which is much older.
http://s2.supload.com/free/first-20070921222018.jpg/view/

1.7 millions years, let me see, how about some examples of dams and
water ways constructed that long ago, that were beside a city.

n 1609, the Inca Garcilaso de la Vega published the first volume of
his Royal Commentaries of the Incas in Lisbon. The second volume
appeared posthumously in 1617. Over seventy years had elapsed since
the Spanish conquistadors led by Francisco Pizarro had first set eyes
on the empire on the Incas.
(Garcilaso de la Vega was the son of a Conquistador. That date is
questionable see below)

[quote]

"As there is in Peru a story of some giants who landed on the coast at
the point of Santa Elena, in the vicinity of the city of Puerto Viejo,
I have resolved to mention what I was told about them, as I understood
it, without taking into account the opinions of the common people and
their various anecdotes, for they usually magnify events larger than
life. The natives, repeating a story received from their forefathers
from very remote times, say that there came from across the sea on
reed rafts that were as large as big ships some men that were so big
that an ordinary man of good size scarcely reached up to knees: their
members were in proportion to the size of their bodies, and it a
monstrous thing to see their enormous heads and their hair hanging
dawn about their shoulders."

...

""When these great men or giants had thus made their settlement and
dug these wells or cisterns, they destroyed and ate all the supplies
they could find in the neighborhood. It is said that one of them ate
more than fifty of the natives of the land; and as the supply of food
was not sufficient for them to maintain themselves, they caught much
fish with nets and gear that they had. They lived in continuous
hostility with the natives, because they slew the latter's women in
order to have them, and they also slew the men for other reasons. But
the Indians were not numerous enough to kill these newcomers who
occupied their land and lorded it over them; and although they held
great discussions about this, they never dared attack them."

...

"In the present year of 1550 when in the city of Lima, I heard that
when his excellency Don Antonio de Mendoza was viceroy and governor of
New Spain, certain bones of men as big as these giants, and even
bigger, were found there. I have heard too that in an ancient
sepulcher in the city of Mexico or somewhere else in that kingdom
certain bones of giants have been found. Since so many people saw them
and attest having done so, it can therefore be credited that such
giants did exist and indeed they may all have been of the same race."
[unquote]

Hmmm... sounds like they may been eating your Olmecs monkey hybrids,
(those bones you found and are trying to claim they are our ancestors)

So anyways I found the cisterns that these giants made and they are
above Cusco in Peru.
http://s2.supload.com/free/giant_cistern-9-4-2007.jpg/view/

Its very very ancient. Difficult to say just how ancient. The steps
leading up to it, are something like 8 or 10 feet tall.
You can see the tiny stones of the Incas sitting on them here...
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/23402
rick_sobie@hotmail.com - 29 Sep 2007 23:40 GMT
>On Sep 28, 8:58 pm, Jack Linthicum <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net>
>wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 140 lines]
>You can see the tiny stones of the Incas sitting on them here...
>http://www.panoramio.com/photo/23402

Why doesn't someone dig down to bedrock inside that cistern and date the
microorganisms?
Water flowed through there, you can see the huge water channels and
spillways. You can see where the rock was worn down, by the flow of the
water.
This is to the detail left and below the main cistern...
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/3773357
rick_sobie@hotmail.com - 30 Sep 2007 00:09 GMT
>>On Sep 28, 8:58 pm, Jack Linthicum <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net>
>>wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 148 lines]
>This is to the detail left and below the main cistern...
>http://www.panoramio.com/photo/3773357

"Sacsayhuamán (also known as Saksaq Waman) is a walled complex near the old
city of Cusco. Some believe the walls were a form of fortification, while
others believe it was only used to form the head of the Puma that
Sacsayhuamán along with Cuzco form when seen from above. Like all Inca
stonework there is still mystery surrounding how they were constructed.
Thanks to an as yet unexplained precision in stone-cutting, the structure
is built in such a way that a single piece of paper will not fit between
two stones."

Yes it is a mystery because no one looked at it from the air, to see that
it was part of an extremely ancient waterway, not made by the Incas.
http://s2.supload.com/free/giant_cistern-9-4-2007.jpg/view/

The Incas piled rocks up and did not work the stone because they didn't
have tools. And that is why the joints were made so tight, because they
wanted it to be water tight. And if you examine those rocks, many have
places where you put your hands to lower them into place. But two people
could not do that today, because these people were giants.
http://www.panoramio.com/photos/original/4913661.jpg
Look top left at the pile of rubble and you will see Inca rockwork, beside
some of the much older stonework of these giants.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacsayhuam%C3%A1n
rick_sobie@hotmail.com - 30 Sep 2007 00:28 GMT
>>Why doesn't someone dig down to bedrock inside that cistern and date the
>>microorganisms?
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacsayhuam%C3%A1n

As you can see in this zoom detail it was clearly used as part of a water
system, with cisterns, like dams, with buttresses and you can see the water
channels and the worn rock from where the water flowed.
http://s2.supload.com/free/detail-9-29-2007.jpg/view/

(Yes I am cheating a bit by zooming in past the allowable limit because it is
necessary to show some people what incredible morons they are.)
 
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