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History Forum / General / Archaeology / September 2007



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More on the possible 12,900 BCE impact

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Eric Stevens - 28 Sep 2007 22:54 GMT
http://www.brown.edu/Administration/News_Bureau/2007-08/07-040.html

   

"PROVIDENCE, R.I. [Brown University] — At the end of the Pleistocene
era, wooly mammoths roamed North America along with a cast of
fantastic creatures – giant sloths, saber-toothed cats, camels, lions,
tapirs and the incredible teratorn, a condor with a 16-foot wingspan.

About 12,900 years ago, these megafauna disappeared from the fossil
record, as did evidence of human remains. The cause of the mass
extinction and the human migration is a mystery. Now a team of
scientists, including Brown University planetary geologist Peter
Schultz, provides evidence that an asteroid impact likely caused the
sudden climate changes that killed off the mammoths and other majestic
beasts of prehistory.

In the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, the
international team lays out its theory that the mass extinctions in
North America were caused by one or more extraterrestrial objects –
comets or meteorites – that exploded over the Earth or slammed into
it, triggering catastrophic climate change.

The scientists believe that evidence for these extraterrestrial
impacts is hidden in a dark layer of dirt sometimes called a black
mat. Found in more than 50 sites around North America, this puzzling
slice of geological history is a mere three centimeters deep and
filled with carbon, which lends the layer its dark color. This black
mat has been found in archaeological digs in Canada and California,
Arizona and South Carolina – even in a research site in Belgium.

The formation of this layer dates back 12,900 years and coincides with
the abrupt cooling of the Younger Dryas period, sometimes called the
“Big Freeze.” This coincidence intrigued the researchers, led by
Richard Firestone of Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, who
thought that the black mat might be related to the mass extinctions.

So the researchers studied black mat sediment samples from 10
archaeological sites dating back to the Clovis people, the first human
inhabitants of the New World. Researchers conducted geochemical
analysis of the samples to determine their makeup and also ran carbon
dating tests to determine the age of the samples.

Directly beneath the black mat, researchers found high concentrations
of magnetic grains containing iridium, charcoal, soot, carbon
spherules, glass-like carbon containing nanodiamonds and fullerenes
packed with extraterrestrial helium – all of which are evidence for an
extraterrestrial impact and the raging wildfires that might have
followed.

Schultz, professor of geological sciences at Brown and an impact
specialist, said the most provocative evidence for an extraterrestrial
impact was the discovery of nanodiamonds, microscopic bits of diamond
formed only from the kind of intense pressure you’d get from a comet
or meteorite slamming into the Earth.

“We don’t have a smoking gun for our theory, but we sure have a lot of
shell casings,” Schultz said. “Taken together, the markers found in
the samples offer intriguing evidence that North America had a major
impact event about 12,900 years ago.”

Schultz admits that there is little decisive evidence about the actual
details about the impact and its effects. Scientists suspect that a
carbon-rich asteroid or comets were the culprits. The objects would
have exploded over North America or slammed into it, or both,
shattering and melting ice sheets, sparking extreme wildfires, and
fueling hurricane-force winds – all of which could have contributed to
changes in climate that led to the cooling of the Younger Dryas
period.

“Our theory isn’t a slam dunk,” Schultz said. “We need to study a lot
more sediments to get a lot more evidence. But what is sobering about
this theory of ours is that this impact would be so recent. Not so
long ago, something may have fallen from the sky and profoundly
changed our climate and our culture.”

The U.S. Department of Energy and the National Science Foundation
funded the work.

Editors: Brown University has a fiber link television studio available
for domestic and international live and taped interviews and maintains
an ISDN line for radio interviews. For more information, call the
Office of Media Relations at (401) 863-2476.

######

Eric Stevens
rick_sobie@hotmail.com - 29 Sep 2007 02:35 GMT
> http://www.brown.edu/Administration/News_Bureau/2007-08/07-040.html
>
[quoted text clipped - 69 lines]
> long ago, something may have fallen from the sky and profoundly
> changed our climate and our culture."

If I hadn't found so much evidence of an advanced pre-history, I would
be wondering if some _thing didn't accompany that asteroid/comet (s)
and lead to an advancement of the human race to the degree that he
began to write and build cities.

One thing we don't usually pay much attention to, is the biological
change in nature, when you have severe sudden climate change. As a for
instance, in the North in Canada, if an area does not go below
freezing over a mild winter that normally would go below freezing, you
find an infestation of fleas, the following year, simply because they
would have died off over the winter.
Now its also possible to imagine a fungus, running rampant, as the one
which covered the entire earth, after the Great Dying.
Or even bacteria, if the climate was wet and mild. Or even a virus, or
any other small variety of life.
We don't usually think about the role the weather has on restricting
the growth of parasites.

Maybe the cold is better than to have a really mild global climate
because at least the parasites are inhibited by the freezing
temperatures.

What caused that mass extinction 12,900 years ago is anyone's guess I
suppose. Including alien attack from the moon.
rick_sobie@hotmail.com - 29 Sep 2007 03:11 GMT
On Sep 29, 2:35 am, rick_so...@hotmail.com wrote:

> >http://www.brown.edu/Administration/News_Bureau/2007-08/07-040.html
>
[quoted text clipped - 94 lines]
> What caused that mass extinction 12,900 years ago is anyone's guess I
> suppose. Including alien attack from the moon.

What sort of attack?
Well you know Star Wars and the Death Star, well if you were to put a
charge on the moon's surface using some sort of huge power system, its
possible you could discharge a lightning bolt of Biblical proportions
onto the earth.
Maybe even " in more than 50 sites around North America"

Plato wrote something to that effect. That Zeus, um fired lightning
bolts at the earth, and that at times the planets wander from their
course, (or at least appear to) and so who knows and the earth is
destroyed by floods etc.

But this...
http://s2.supload.com/free/The_Moon-20070926024539.jpg/view/
hypothetically could be used as a capacitor. Although being able to
fire a bolt of lightning or electricity 85,000 miles, well that seems
like quite a bit of electricity.
What you would expect to happen is the site from where the bolt was on
the moon, that would basically turn to glass.
Like the mares as a for instance.
And where it hit the earth, well things would burn and there would be
the same sort of effect as a nuclear explosion without the radiation.
Enough to scare you into migrating.

Could this happen without alien control, without aliens or Zeus firing
the thing, could it build up a charge from cosmic rays and solar rays
and then discharge into the earth, by natural forces, well Velikovsky
said it could, but most people don't believe him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velikovsky
Eric Stevens - 29 Sep 2007 04:31 GMT
>On Sep 29, 2:35 am, rick_so...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>> > fantastic creatures - giant sloths, saber-toothed cats, camels, lions,
>> > tapirs and the incredible teratorn, a condor with a 16-foot wingspan.

  --- snip ----

>> What caused that mass extinction 12,900 years ago is anyone's guess I
>> suppose. Including alien attack from the moon.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>Plato wrote something to that effect. That Zeus, um fired lightning
>bolts at the earth, ...

I may turn out to be wrong but I think thast if you go back to the
original, Plato (and other ancients) did not write about 'lightning
bolts' but only 'bolts'. The addition of the word 'lightning' is the
work of later translators who did not think that 'bolts' on their own
made sense.

What is proposed for 12,900 years ago is indeed a 'bolt' without much
in the way of accompanying lightning. It is likely that this is the
kind of event that Plato and others were actually writing about.

> ... and that at times the planets wander from their
>course, (or at least appear to) and so who knows and the earth is
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>said it could, but most people don't believe him.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velikovsky

Eric Stevens
rick_sobie@hotmail.com - 29 Sep 2007 05:02 GMT
> >On Sep 29, 2:35 am, rick_so...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> in the way of accompanying lightning. It is likely that this is the
> kind of event that Plato and others were actually writing about.

Well Louis Frank at the University of Iowa, did a study in conjunction
with NASA, and concluded that ice and snowballs from space happen
every minute. Some as big as 20 or 30 tons. Some as big as Tunguska
happen occasionally as well, and some maybe even larger occasionally
happen. And if it exploded in the atmosphere, it wouldn't leave a
crater.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas_impact_event

The only thing is, that it seems like that is just not quite enough,
to explain why the change was not global.
There seems to be no evidence that New Zealand was effected or
Antarctica, and South America wasn't affected much either.
How do you get a localized cold snap of that magnitude, unless maybe
for a short while, the earth wobbled off its axis, and the North Pole
was somewhere different. Greenland was clearly affected.

Besides all that though, does it not seem incredible, that after that,
people started to build cities, farm, read write, and grow in
population to 6.5 billion, within an instant of geological time.

Myself I think there is evidence from at least 25,000 ya that man was
farming, maybe even far before that if you consider questionable
recent finds in Mexico and Peru and off Cuba.

Cities, well there is that city off Cuba, that might be 50,000 years
old.
And there is some proto-Surmerian writing on the rocks in that city
apparently.

So I don't think we have identified a connection with that event and
the sudden increase in mankind's survival ability or intelligence. But
the dying off of Mega-fauna, well man might have hunted them to
extinction as well or disease may have helped with that.
Maybe it only takes one really really bad year to kill things off and
it is so short a duration that it doesn't register well in the
geologic record.
Maybe a really really cold day in winter, of minus 100 would kill off
the Mega-fauna, and who knows why something as weird as that might
happen. Maybe a disruption in the North Atlantic. Thats been
suggested. But why the Mega-fauna and not the rest of the mammals?
Thats why hunting seems more probable to me.

But it doesn't explain the migration of humans out of North America.
There were bison, and all sorts of things to eat still.
rick_sobie@hotmail.com - 29 Sep 2007 05:34 GMT
On Sep 29, 5:02 am, rick_so...@hotmail.com wrote:

> > >On Sep 29, 2:35 am, rick_so...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 73 lines]
> But it doesn't explain the migration of humans out of North America.
> There were bison, and all sorts of things to eat still.

If you stop and think about where we are today, and if there was a
mass extinction event would we leave a smudge in the strata?
And how deep a smudge?
Well skyscrapers, Hoover Dam, and all sorts of mega projects
archaeologists would dig us up for a billion years and so then we
don't see that in the ground from any past epoch.
So this is new. And it happened just a moment ago, in geological time.
We are, an explosion. No less than an explosion of change like the
world has never seen before.
Alien invasion from space is the only answer. Nothing like this could
have happened by itself. Its as if suddenly tomorrow, the animals
started to talk, and write, and build houses, and garden, and fly
around the place in airplanes they built themselves.
rick_sobie@hotmail.com - 29 Sep 2007 05:45 GMT
> If you stop and think about where we are today, and if there was a
> mass extinction event would we leave a smudge in the strata?
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> started to talk, and write, and build houses, and garden, and fly
> around the place in airplanes they built themselves.

Maybe we crashed in the mud, in the tundra, and escaped but the huge
disk we were on sank into the mud, and we said the heck with it, lets
get out of here, and find shelter, and never found it again.
Maybe its buried under the tundra.
Maybe NASA might even have breezed over it, with ground penetrating
radar, not noticing it.
But you would think it would have a signature that you could see from
space and it would be easily detected.
You see we can look at google earth, but every time you find something
strange in or on the ground, you can't tell if it is something they
put there at google just to make it interesting.
Like this yellowish line on the ground in Peru...
http://s2.supload.com/free/Fu-Man-Zeus-9-5-2007.jpg/view/
That might be a signature, if we knew it wasn't a camera artifact.
rick_sobie@hotmail.com - 29 Sep 2007 07:22 GMT
On Sep 29, 5:45 am, rick_so...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > If you stop and think about where we are today, and if there was a
> > mass extinction event would we leave a smudge in the strata?
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> Like this yellowish line on the ground in Peru...http://s2.supload.com/free/Fu-Man-Zeus-9-5-2007.jpg/view/
> That might be a signature, if we knew it wasn't a camera artifact.

You know I never really stopped to consider that the NAZCA lines at
least some of them, might be a representation of Orion's belt.
http://www.world-mysteries.com/mpl_1_2rl.jpg
http://www.daviddarling.info/images/Orions_Belt_1.gif
Eric Stevens - 29 Sep 2007 10:10 GMT
>> >On Sep 29, 2:35 am, rick_so...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>There seems to be no evidence that New Zealand was effected or
>Antarctica, and South America wasn't affected much either.

You seem to be working on the basis that if we don't actually know of
an impact then there wasn't one. With regard to New Zealand you should
investigate the Mahuika crater.

>How do you get a localized cold snap of that magnitude, unless maybe
>for a short while, the earth wobbled off its axis, and the North Pole
>was somewhere different. Greenland was clearly affected.

You seem to think the climate of the earth is stable. Well, it isn't.

>Besides all that though, does it not seem incredible, that after that,
>people started to build cities, farm, read write, and grow in
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>But it doesn't explain the migration of humans out of North America.
>There were bison, and all sorts of things to eat still.

Eric Stevens
rick_sobie@hotmail.com - 29 Sep 2007 22:30 GMT
> >> >On Sep 29, 2:35 am, rick_so...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
> You seem to be working on the basis that if we don't actually know of
> an impact then there wasn't one.

Well you can go to geology.com and use the satellite imagery for
Canada and see for yourself.
No recent impact crater.
http://geology.com/canada-satellite-images.shtml
rick_sobie@hotmail.com - 29 Sep 2007 22:41 GMT
On Sep 29, 10:30 pm, rick_so...@hotmail.com wrote:

> > >> >On Sep 29, 2:35 am, rick_so...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
> Canada and see for yourself.
> No recent impact crater.http://geology.com/canada-satellite-images.shtml

Well I suppose it might have blown into an ice sheet.
http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/NAL2215.gif
But then would it explode?
Eric Stevens - 30 Sep 2007 00:28 GMT
>On Sep 29, 10:30 pm, rick_so...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/NAL2215.gif
>But then would it explode?

Oh Yes!

Eric Stevens
Eric Stevens - 30 Sep 2007 00:28 GMT
>> >> >On Sep 29, 2:35 am, rick_so...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 50 lines]
>No recent impact crater.
>http://geology.com/canada-satellite-images.shtml

You can use that argument when you can show me a picture of the crater
at Tunguska.

Eric Stevens
 
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