 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
History Forum / General / British History / October 2005Peers who did not plead
Peers and peeresses of the Realm are excempt from any corporal punishmenmt except being cleanly put to death if convicted. (by their peers, before 1948). Accordingly, in case of treason, they are beheaded rather than hanged, drawn and quartered. This also applies to other bodily punishments. Like branding on the thumb. One countess of Bristol was convicted of bigamy. Peers and peeresses are learned even if illiterate, so she asked for benefit of clergy. Being, as a peeress, excempt from all corporal punishment, she received no penalty at all. Presumably a peer or peeress who by the records of the House of Lords had been previously clergied or who had branding on the thumb acquired through having been clergied before becoming a peer/ess could have been punished as any other felonious peer. But the commoners who failed to plead either Guilty or Not Guilty were subjected to peine forte et dure and, unless they pleaded, pressed to death. Does peine forte et dure qualify as a corporal punishment the Peers of the Realm are excempt from? And what was the procedure the House of Lords, or the Court of the Lord High Steward, used in case a peer failed to plead? >Peers and peeresses of the Realm are excempt from any corporal >punishmenmt except being cleanly put to death if convicted. (by their [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >And what was the procedure the House of Lords, or the Court of the Lord >High Steward, used in case a peer failed to plead? You posted this bollocks to ahb a month ago and were told at some length that it was rubbish.  SignatureIan In uk.legal Ian Dalziel <iandalziel@lineone.net> wrote: >>Peers and peeresses of the Realm are excempt from any corporal >>punishmenmt except being cleanly put to death if convicted. (by their >>peers, before 1948). Accordingly, in case of treason, they are beheaded >>rather than hanged, drawn and quartered. >>This also applies to other bodily punishments. Like branding on the >>thumb. One countess of Bristol was convicted of bigamy. Peers and >>peeresses are learned even if illiterate, so she asked for benefit of >>clergy. Being, as a peeress, excempt from all corporal punishment, she >>received no penalty at all. >>Presumably a peer or peeress who by the records of the House of Lords >>had been previously clergied or who had branding on the thumb acquired >>through having been clergied before becoming a peer/ess could have been >>punished as any other felonious peer. >>But the commoners who failed to plead either Guilty or Not Guilty were >>subjected to peine forte et dure and, unless they pleaded, pressed to >>death. >>Does peine forte et dure qualify as a corporal punishment the Peers of >>the Realm are excempt from? >>And what was the procedure the House of Lords, or the Court of the Lord >>High Steward, used in case a peer failed to plead? > You posted this bollocks to ahb a month ago and were told at some > length that it was rubbish. Certainly it is rubbish these days. Probably not in the 1200/1300s although I suspect that any peer would have simply retreated to his lands... those who rebelled against King John certainly escaped punishment, except for a few clerics, but that was more by papal sanction than anything else. Axel >In uk.legal Ian Dalziel <iandalziel@lineone.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >punishment, except for a few clerics, but that was more by papal >sanction than anything else. I'm pretty sure there is nothing even in archaic English law to support the rules he is laying down - I've never heard of it if there is. I doubt whether there has even been a stable period of use of the punishments described. If he has some source for these pronouncements, I would be interested to see it. However, as far as I know, it is indeed bollocks. SignatureIan >>In uk.legal Ian Dalziel <iandalziel@lineone.net> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > >However, as far as I know, it is indeed bollocks. Not *entirely* bollocks. It is perfectly true that the Duchess of Kingston/Countess of Bristol suffered no punishment after her conviction for bigamy; Lord Mansfield pointed out months before the trial began that this would necessarily be the case. What she claimed was privilege of peerage (not benefit of clergy, which is an entirely different thing) by virtue of which, in the unamimous opinion of the judges, she was exempt from corporal punishment. Her biographer (Claire Gervat, "Elizabeth", 2003) points out that there was a recent precedent; the 5th Lord Byron (great uncle of the poet, commonly known as "the bad Lord Byron") similarly escaped punishment altogether in 1765, although the crime in his case was manslaughter. On the other hand, a peer convicted of murder could be hanged, as Earl Ferrers was in 1760. SignatureDon Aitken Mail to the From: address is not read. To email me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com" >>>In uk.legal Ian Dalziel <iandalziel@lineone.net> wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] >hand, a peer convicted of murder could be hanged, as Earl Ferrers was >in 1760. And can you cite a case of a commoner being hanged, drawn and quartered for treason? Even in the eighteenth century? The bollocks appears to claim this is a current punishment in the 21st century. SignatureIan > >>In uk.legal Ian Dalziel <iandalziel@lineone.net> wrote: > >> [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > as "the bad Lord Byron") similarly escaped punishment altogether in > 1765, although the crime in his case was manslaughter. What would have been the punishment of a (learned) commoner convicted at the same time by a jury of his/her peers of the same felonies (like bigamy or manslaughter)? > On the other > hand, a peer convicted of murder could be hanged, as Earl Ferrers was [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Mail to the From: address is not read. > To email me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com" |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2009 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.