Complete Peerage Correction: Henry, Earl of Lancaster's marriage to Alix de Joinville
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Douglas Richardson - 23 Sep 2003 18:15 GMT Dear Newsgroup ~
Complete Peerage 7 (1929): 396-401 (sub Lancaster) gives an excellent account of the life of Henry of Lancaster, Knt., Earl of Lancaster and Leicester (died 1345), a grandson of King Henry III of England. Earl Henry was an important man in his time period. Describing his character, the Dictionary of National Biography says of Henry that he was "courteous and kind-hearted, of sound judgement, religious, and apparently of high principle" [Reference: D.N.B. 9 (1908): 551552]. He is chiefly noted as the person who arrested his cousin, King Edward II, in 1326, which arrest eventually led to King Edward II's untimely death the following year, though not at Earl Henry's hands.
Complete Peerage provides two marriages for Henry of Lancaster, one to Maud de Chaworth, the other to Alix de Joinville. It is the second marriage which interests us in this post. Regarding this marriage, Complete Peerage states the following:
"He married, 2ndly, as her 2nd husband, Alix, who in 1307 was widow of Jean, Sieur d'Arcies sub Aube et de Chacenay, and daughter of John Joinville, Seneschal of Champagne, historian of St. Louis, by his 2nd wife, Alix de Risnel, daughter and heiress of Gautier, Seigneur de Risnel." END OF QUOTE.
Complete Peerage cites two sources for this marriage, one of them being "Anselme, vol. vi, p. 695." Pere Anselme's work, Histoire de la Maison Royale de France, is available on line on the helpful gallica website (http://gallica.bnf.fr). Pere Anselme states the following regarding the marriage of Alix de Joinville and Henry of Lancaster on the volume and page cited by Complete Peerage:
"Alix de Joinville, mariée (1) par traité pallé à Joinville le jour de l'Invention de Sainte Croix 1300. à Jean seigneur d'Arcies sur Aube et de Chacenay; (2) avant 1316 à Henry d'Angleterre comte de Lancastre, seigneur de Montmouth, de Beaufort et de Nogent. Le dimanche aprés la S. Martin d'hyver 1316, se qualifiant dame de Beaufort, elle promit faire hommage de sa terre de Chacenay à l'évêque de Langres, si c'étoit la coutume de Champagne. Catulaire de Langres, p. 189." END OF QUOTE.
As we can see, Pere Anselme makes no qualification regarding Alix de Joinville's marriage to Henry of Lancaster, which he places as having taken place before 1316.
In truth, Alix de Joinville actually married before July 1312 Henry of Lancaster's younger brother, John of Lancaster, seigneur of Beaufort (present day Montmorency, Aube, arrond. d'Arcis-sur Aube, canton de Chavanges) and Nogent-l'Artaud (Aisne, arrond. de Château-Thierry, canton de Charly). Little is known of his life. John of Lancaster was born before May 1286. He was living July 1312, died in France before 1327. He evidently had no issue. For information on his seal and coat of arms, see Coat of Arms 7 (1962): 1824.
The evidence that John of Lancaster's wife was Alix de Joinville is found in the book, Jean de Joinville et les seigneurs de Joinville, by H.-F. Delaborde, published in 1894. This work can be found on line on the gallica website cited above. On page 409, the following document is presented:
No. 733 Date: July 1312
"Jean de Lancastre, seigneur de Beaufort, et sa femme Alix de Joinville font à l'abbaye de la Chapelle-aux-Planches une fondation de quatre messes par semaine. Arch. de la Haute-Marne, La Chapelle-aux-Planches, folio 27 r." END OF QUOTE.
The Joinville book presents several other documents relating to Alix de Joinville which shows that she was living as late as 31 March 1336. In the documents which date after 1312, Alix is styled simply as "dame de Beaufort," never as Countess of Lancaster.
Further details of John of Lancaster and his wife, Alix de Joinville, will be found in my forthcoming book, Plantagenet Ancestry, which I antipate will be available for shipping sometime in late December. Please contact me at my e-mail address below if interested in obtaining a copy of the book.
As for John of Lancaster's holdings, the castles of Beaufort and Nogent-l'Artaud, they eventually fell by inheritance to John of Lancaster's great niece, Blanche of Lancaster, whose husband, John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster, leased them in 1365 to John Wyn for ten years at a yearly rental of £100 sterling.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royalancestry@msn.com
Brad Verity - 24 Sep 2003 05:39 GMT royalancestry@msn.com (Douglas Richardson) wrote in message news:
> In truth, Alix de Joinville actually married before July 1312 Henry of > Lancaster's younger brother, John of Lancaster, seigneur of Beaufort [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > before 1327. He evidently had no issue. For information on his seal > and coat of arms, see Coat of Arms 7 (1962): 18?24. Great correction, Douglas. According to Kenneth Fowler's 1969 biography of Henry of Grosmont, Duke of Lancaster: "The youngest brother, John, secured the lordships of Beaufort and Nogent-sur-Marne in France, acquired by Edmund [Earl of Lancaster, brother of Edward I] through his second marriage. But when John died in 1317 these interests in Champagne and Brie passed to Edmund's second son, Henry, who went to France in 1318 to render his homage and take over the lordships, from one of which he assumed the title of lord of Beaufort."
I remember seeing the Chancery Roll (can't remember if it was Patent or Close Roll) entry regarding Henry of Lancaster's trip to France right after his brother John's death, but I didn't make a copy of that page. Should be pretty easy to find, though.
> The evidence that John of Lancaster's wife was Alix de Joinville is > found in the book, Jean de Joinville et les seigneurs de Joinville, by > H.-F. Delaborde, published in 1894. This work can be found on line on > the gallica website cited above. On page 409, the following document > is presented: Was Alix de Joinville, dame of Beaufort, related to Jeanne de Geneville, wife of Roger de Mortimer, Queen Isabella's lover? If so, then Alix and John of Lancaster were related, I believe - both having Isabella of Angouleme, wife of King John, as an ancestor?
Cheers, ----Brad
Douglas Richardson - 24 Sep 2003 19:03 GMT Dear Brad ~
Thank you for your good post.
If you have Kenneth Fowler's book handy, does he give any source for John of Lancaster's death date in 1317? My impression is that John spent a good deal of his adult life in France, which would explain the lack of records concerning him in England. Next time I go to the library, I'll look for the record of Henry of Lancaster's trip to France in 1318. Thanks for mentioning this item to me.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royalancestry@msn.com
> royalancestry@msn.com (Douglas Richardson) wrote in message news: > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Cheers, ----Brad David B. - 24 Sep 2003 21:39 GMT Douglas Richardson wrote in message <5cf47a19.0309241003.3d269b5@posting.google.com>...
>If you have Kenneth Fowler's book handy, does he give any source for >John of Lancaster's death date in 1317? There would presumably have to be an Inquisition Post Mortem concerning his estates in England, which would be in the PRO Calendar of IPMs.
>Next time I go to the >library, I'll look for the record of Henry of Lancaster's trip to >France in 1318. There doesn't seem to be a lot specifically on the trip; nothing in the Close Rolls that I could see, and just these entries in the Calendar of Patent Rolls (Edward II, vol 3):
May 16 1318: Simple protection (until Xmas) granted to various individuals going beyond the seas, including Henry de Lancastre and his companions William de Cantilupo & Thomas le Blount
May 22: Adam de Skelton, going with Henry de Lancastre beyond the seas, has letters nominating John de Skelton & Robert de Clyveland as his attorneys for 1 year.
Jun 6: Protection for 1 year, with clause "nolumus", for Adam de Skelton, going beyond the seas with Henry de Lancastre.
28 Sep 1318: Remission to Henry de Lancastre, king's kinsman staying in France to obtain his inheritance of land following the death of his brother John de Lancastre, of service he ought to have done in the army in Scotland.
1 Feb 1318/9: Protection with clause "volumus" until St Peter ad Vincula, for Henry de Lancastre, going on king's service beyond the seas.
(i.e. presumably he had returned from his personal trip and was promptly sent out again)
Brad Verity - 24 Sep 2003 23:19 GMT royalancestry@msn.com (Douglas Richardson) wrote in message news:
> If you have Kenneth Fowler's book handy, does he give any source for > John of Lancaster's death date in 1317? No, he doesn't give a source for the statement.
> My impression is that John > spent a good deal of his adult life in France, which would explain the > lack of records concerning him in England. According to Maddicott's biography of Thomas of Lancaster, all three of Edmund's sons spent most of their youth in France, where their elder sister Jeanne of Navarre was Queen.
> Next time I go to the > library, I'll look for the record of Henry of Lancaster's trip to > France in 1318. Thanks for mentioning this item to me. You're welcome. I have a feeling the Chancery Roll entry was the source for Fowler's statement.
Therav3@aol.com wrote in message news:<11e.25c77213.2ca327ae@aol.com>...
> Brad, there is no Lusignan/Angouleme ancestry involved with Alix de > Joinville. She was the younger daughter of the historian/seneschal Jean de > Joinville, great-uncle of Joan (or Jeanne) de Joinville/Geneville: Thanks for this, John. I easily get my Joinvilles and Lusignans all confused!
Cheers, ---Brad
John Steele Gordon - 24 Sep 2003 13:09 GMT Many thanks for this information, Doug.
JSG
> In truth, Alix de Joinville actually married before July 1312 Henry of > Lancaster's younger brother, John of Lancaster, seigneur of Beaufort [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > the gallica website cited above. On page 409, the following document > is presented:
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