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History Forum / General / British History / January 2006Presentation of Sword to Stalin in ABPM
In message news:qn9rt1h3j518c0si0su26od3fimcupm128@4ax.com in alt.binaries.pictures.military, there is a photo of Stalin, Roosevelt and Churchill and a Russian marshal holding a presentation sword. I think the occasion was the Yalta conference and the sword was commissioned by workers in Britain for presentation to the people of the USSR. Can someone out there confirm the occasion, the origins of the sword and what Stalin's reaction was? (I gather it was one of ingratitude.)  SignatureAndrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) > In message news:qn9rt1h3j518c0si0su26od3fimcupm128@4ax.com in > alt.binaries.pictures.military, there is a photo of Stalin, Roosevelt [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Can someone out there confirm the occasion, the origins of the sword > and what Stalin's reaction was? (I gather it was one of ingratitude.) It's called the Sword of Stalingrad and was presented at Teheran. Formally it's a presentation from King George VI to the Russian People. Stalin is recorded as kissing the blade as a mark of respect at the ceremony when it was handed over. SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. > > In message news:qn9rt1h3j518c0si0su26od3fimcupm128@4ax.com in > > alt.binaries.pictures.military, there is a photo of Stalin, Roosevelt [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Stalin is recorded as kissing the blade as a mark of respect at the ceremony > when it was handed over. Where is it now? SignatureAndrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) >> > In message news:qn9rt1h3j518c0si0su26od3fimcupm128@4ax.com in >> > alt.binaries.pictures.military, there is a photo of Stalin, [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >Where is it now? Volvograd museum. Try a google. > >> . . . the Sword of Stalingrad and was presented at Teheran. > > > >Where is it now? > > Volvograd museum. Try a google. But make that Volgograd (not Volvo.) Or look into Evelyn Waugh's war novel Sword of Honour. SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) >> >> . . . the Sword of Stalingrad and was presented at Teheran. >> > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > But make that Volgograd (not Volvo.) > Or look into Evelyn Waugh's war novel Sword of Honour. I will, now that I have googled it as Dave suggested. I read the first novel in Waugh's trilogy some 30 years ago, but found it rather stiff and unentertaining. I'll give them another go. SignatureAndrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) That's Fine Then. The Original Opining by Andrew Chaplin turns out not to have been correct -- IF Pogue Black is correct. A ceremonial sword to Stalin from George VI -- presented to Stalin, for Stalingrad -- is perfectly appropriate. Even Communists can sometimes be useful in Realpolitik. DSH >> In message news:qn9rt1h3j518c0si0su26od3fimcupm128@4ax.com in >> alt.binaries.pictures.military, there is a photo of Stalin, Roosevelt [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Stalin is recorded as kissing the blade as a mark of respect at the > ceremony when it was handed over. > That's Fine Then. > > The Original Opining by Andrew Chaplin turns out not to have been correct -- > IF Pogue Black is correct. You mean I'm right but you can't find some dodgy web site that says something slightly different. SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. >> That's Fine Then. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > You mean I'm right but you can't find some dodgy web site that says > something slightly different. I gather Stalin's remark about what he rather would have received was an aside later to others among the Soviet delegation. I am still trying to remember where I heard or read it. SignatureAndrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) And Stalin's alleged remark was what? Perhaps an on-line cite? Of course Stalin wanted a Second Front and was angry at both America and Britain for delaying it -- in the form he wanted it. DSH > I gather Stalin's remark about what he rather would have received was an > aside later to others among the Soviet delegation. I am still trying to > remember where I heard or read it. > And Stalin's alleged remark was what? > > Perhaps an on-line cite? > > Of course Stalin wanted a Second Front and was angry at both America and > Britain for delaying it -- in the form he wanted it. Stalin is supposed to have said that would would have rather have had another of something else -- a tank, I think. It was more than 20 years ago that I heard or read of this, and I cannot remember where. SignatureAndrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) > >> That's Fine Then. > >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > aside later to others among the Soviet delegation. I am still trying to > remember where I heard or read it. The reports I have read said that Stalin said nothing. Unfortunately as he passed the sword to an aide it was dropped with a resounding clang. Stalin was as aware as anyone else about the importance of gestures. After he was dead an awful lot of people spent a lot of time saying he made a lot of nasty remarks he didn't actually make. He wasn't a fool, he knew exactly what the sword signified. SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. Hilarious! If Proven... Sounds like thousands of these Brits were Communist dupes too -- just like Gans. DSH > In message <news:qn9rt1h3j518c0si0su26od3fimcupm128@4ax.com> in > alt.binaries.pictures.military, there is a photo of Stalin, Roosevelt [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Can someone out there confirm the occasion, the origins of the sword > and what Stalin's reaction was? (I gather it was one of ingratitude.) > Hilarious! > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> and what Stalin's reaction was? (I gather it was one of >> ingratitude.) I can't be bothered to seek out an incomplete web address ... but could this be the sword;- http://www.russianswords.com/Stalin-english.htm the 'Sword of Stalingrad' that you're referring to? SignatureBrian |
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