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Treason in high places

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JB - 22 Feb 2006 15:01 GMT
Anyone familiar with ancient Greece is likely to know about Alcibiades, the
nephew of the great general Pericles who led Athens during its heyday in mid
fifth century BC. Alcibiades not only was high born, he was also a natural
leader with many talents. Few could resist his charm and persuasion. He was
also a reckless spender who womanized and loved to party. During his
formative years, Athens was experiencing growing friction with its neighbor
Sparta, at the time Athens was enjoying its dominance in trade and cultural
influence throughout the Greek world. Sparta was in some ways older and more
rooted than Athens, but far more rigid and stuffy. They were not about to
yield to Athenian hegemony.

One thing that that bothered Athens greatly was any suspicion that Sparta
was gaining an advantage in the competition between the two states. At this
time all the several hundred Greek city states had to ally with one or the
other great powers, Sparta or Athens. Sicily in particular was troubling
Athens because its main city, Syracuse, was allied with Sparta. A dispute
broke out between two Sicilian city states, one of them asking Athens for
aid. The Athenian assembly intensely debated whether to send troops and how
many, etc. Leading the call for war was Alcibiades, who in the end managed
to convince the people to vote on a war that many deemed unnecessary and
dangerous.

Athens sends a massive fleet to attack Syracuse, known as the Sicilian
Expedition. It began as a glamorous display of their finest ships and amour,
meant to impress and intimidate. But things quickly begin to go badly.
Before the fighting even begins, however, Alcibiades, one of three generals
in charge, is called back to Athens to stand trial for other charges. On his
prison ship he manages to escape and flees to Sparta, where he gives them
detailed instructions on how to do the most damage to the Athenians. The
Spartans inflict massive damage on Athens, who never quite recovers. Within
another decade or so Athens is completely defeated by Sparta. In hindsight,
Alcibiades was the classic demagogue, full of seductive words, but in the
end only capable of leaving a path of destruction in his wake.

Jacob Burkardt, the great German historian, often referred to the Sicilian
Expedition as "the great disaster." It's become synonymous with any
completely unnecessary and reckless pre-emptive war. The details are told
very well by Thucydides in his famous work on the Peloponesian War.

There is much to be learned in the present age by "the great disaster."
Leaders who drag their countries into needless and costly wars are just the
prologue: part two is their ultimate betrayal of their countrymen, and the
high price that must be paid for the damage they cause. In the case of
Athens, the price was too high and couldn't be paid. Athenian democracy and
its great cultural glory simply came to an end. Other hegemonic empires were
more fortunate. The British empire, for example, scaled down gradually and
never experienced the traumatic ending that Athens did. Perhaps that was
because Britain never had a demagogue on the scale of Alcibiades.

Many believe that GW Bush has also led his country into a needless and
costly war. Now that he is staunchly defended his decision to transfer
management of six major US ports to the United Arab Emirates government, it
is a chilling reminder of the gullibility of the demos and the reckless
tendencies of a demagogue. Those who know history can only watch with
horror, knowing that very little has changed in human nature over time, that
mass-scale ignorance rules the day, and that little can be done to sway the
course of events once set in motion. We can only clutch our armchairs with
fingernails dug in tightly and watch as the madness of this human drama
unfolds.

John

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/truth_be_known/
hippo - 22 Feb 2006 16:53 GMT
"JB" wrote in message

> Anyone familiar with ancient Greece is likely to know about Alcibiades,
> the nephew of the great general Pericles who led Athens during its heyday
[quoted text clipped - 57 lines]
> armchairs with fingernails dug in tightly and watch as the madness of this
> human drama unfolds.

Ummmm, anyone who has heard GW speak in public knows he's neither
persuasive, charming, nor particularly irresistible and he certainly isn't a
demagogue.

You also don't have your history quite right either. Alcibiades wasn't in
charge at Syracuse. His enemies, who thought he had grown too powerful, had
managed to stab him in the back by setting him up on false charges, thus
leaving the aged, and overly cautious Niceas in command of the army. It was
Niceas, and the club of nasty little back-stabbers, who cost the Athenians
the war. Too, you also accidentally forgot to mention that the Spartans,
with whom the Athenians were contending for hegemony in the Greek World,
were a nasty business, anti-democratic, politically reactionary, ruthless,
and with a social structure totally geared for war and to keep their native
population in servitude. I'd have voted along with Alcibiades myself.

Where I am, sitting in my armchair, the prospect of having the civilized
world fall under the political control of a bunch of ruthless,
superstitious, religious zealots is far more concerning than fighting a few
pre-emptive wars. We should have learned the value if pre-emptive war in the
'30s. Some, apparently, missed that lesson in their education. -the Troll
John Cartmell - 22 Feb 2006 17:34 GMT
> Where I am, sitting in my armchair, the prospect of having the civilized
> world fall under the political control of a bunch of ruthless,
> superstitious, religious zealots is far more concerning than fighting a few
> pre-emptive wars.

Prospect?

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hippo - 22 Feb 2006 19:31 GMT
"John Cartmell" wrote in message

> In article hippo wrote:

>> Where I am, sitting in my armchair, the prospect of having the civilized
>> world fall under the political control of a bunch of ruthless,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Prospect?

It is their stated goal, both within their organization and in public.
Judging from the lengths they seem willing to go to that end, I'd say we
have a problem. -the Troll
John Cartmell - 22 Feb 2006 20:33 GMT
> "John Cartmell" wrote in message

> > In article hippo wrote:

> >> Where I am, sitting in my armchair, the prospect of having the civilized
> >> world fall under the political control of a bunch of ruthless,
> >> superstitious, religious zealots is far more concerning than fighting a
> >> few pre-emptive wars.

> > Prospect?

> It is their stated goal, both within their organization and in public.
> Judging from the lengths they seem willing to go to that end, I'd say we
> have a problem.

I'd suggest we already suffer from political control by a bunch of ruthless,
superstitious, religious zealots - and Bush also seems intent on more
pre-emptive wars.

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hippo - 22 Feb 2006 21:15 GMT
"John Cartmell" wrote in message

> In article hippo wrote:

>> >> Where I am, sitting in my armchair, the prospect of having the
>> >> civilized
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> superstitious, religious zealots - and Bush also seems intent on more
> pre-emptive wars.

Get the job done while the sun shines I always sez. :^) What do you suggest
we do, convert now to save them the trouble or trust the bastards not to
kill more of us than we can replace with our explosive birthrate? Making
'nice' or ignoring the problem didn't work from '48 until the first Gulf War
so I'm leaving those out as practical solutions. -the Troll
John Cartmell - 22 Feb 2006 22:39 GMT
> "John Cartmell" wrote in message

> > In article hippo wrote:

> >> >> Where I am, sitting in my armchair, the prospect of having the
> >> >> civilized world fall under the political control of a bunch of
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> > ruthless, superstitious, religious zealots - and Bush also seems intent
> > on more pre-emptive wars.

> Get the job done while the sun shines I always sez. :^) What do you suggest
> we do, convert now to save them the trouble or trust the bastards not to
> kill more of us than we can replace with our explosive birthrate? Making
> 'nice' or ignoring the problem didn't work from '48 until the first Gulf
> War so I'm leaving those out as practical solutions.

I'm still convinced that we are at cross-purposes. I say tell the lot to
bog-off. Now what are those fundy-Republicans going to do when addressed in
that way ... ?

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hippo - 23 Feb 2006 04:16 GMT
"John Cartmell" wrote in message

> In article hippo wrote:

>> >> >> Where I am, sitting in my armchair, the prospect of having the
>> >> >> civilized world fall under the political control of a bunch of
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> in
> that way ... ?

I can just see you saying 'bog-off' to Bin Laden or a nut case Iranian
Mullah. They'd never find your remains. Republicans, we Republicans, are
concerned for your welfare if you are not, and are trying to prevent you
getting your computer taken away, and being forced to carry a rug around all
day. I've already explained to you at great length that we are not all
fundamentalists or even especially Christian. -the Troll
John Cartmell - 23 Feb 2006 12:10 GMT
> Republicans, we Republicans, are concerned for your welfare if you are
> not, and are trying to prevent you getting your computer taken away

No. You're working very hard to try to force me to replace it with a crap
computer from the USA. ;-(

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hippo - 23 Feb 2006 15:35 GMT
"John Cartmell" wrote in message

> In article hippo wrote:

>> Republicans, we Republicans, are concerned for your welfare if you are
>> not, and are trying to prevent you getting your computer taken away
>
> No. You're working very hard to try to force me to replace it with a crap
> computer from the USA. ;-(

I don't think we make the things anymore. The IBM T42 laptop I am typing on
says it was made in China. The kiddy computer across the room (HP 4150) was
made in Taiwan. We are becoming a service economy just like Western
Europe. -the Troll
John Cartmell - 23 Feb 2006 17:00 GMT
> "John Cartmell" wrote in message

> > In article hippo wrote:

> >> Republicans, we Republicans, are concerned for your welfare if you are
> >> not, and are trying to prevent you getting your computer taken away
> >
> > No. You're working very hard to try to force me to replace it with a crap
> > computer from the USA. ;-(

> I don't think we make the things anymore. The IBM T42 laptop I am typing on
> says it was made in China. The kiddy computer across the room (HP 4150) was
> made in Taiwan. We are becoming a service economy just like Western
> Europe.

The service that I can best live without is a computer operating system
produced in the USA. I'll stick to UK designed & made computers and operating
systems - admittedly we have to source components from the far east but even
then the processors are UK designed.

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hippo - 23 Feb 2006 18:05 GMT
"John Cartmell" wrote in message

> In article hippo wrote:

>> > No. You're working very hard to try to force me to replace it with a
>> > crap
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> even
> then the processors are UK designed.

There are plenty of 'Mericans who hate Microsoft too, and alternative OS
under development. -the Troll
John Cartmell - 23 Feb 2006 18:38 GMT
> > The service that I can best live without is a computer operating system
> > produced in the USA. I'll stick to UK designed & made computers and
> > operating systems - admittedly we have to source components from the far
> > east but even then the processors are UK designed.

> There are plenty of 'Mericans who hate Microsoft too, and alternative OS
> under development.

We have an OS developed and tested. I'll pass on any orders for machines with
OS. ;-)

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hippo - 23 Feb 2006 20:57 GMT
"John Cartmell" wrote in message

> In article hippo wrote:

>> > The service that I can best live without is a computer operating system
>> > produced in the USA. I'll stick to UK designed & made computers and
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> with
> OS. ;-)

What did you guys use, the Spanish OS I mentioned years ago? Half the Mac
users here buy the things to get away from M'soft. -the Troll
John Cartmell - 23 Feb 2006 22:24 GMT
> "John Cartmell" wrote in message

> > In article hippo wrote:

> >> > The service that I can best live without is a computer operating system
> >> > produced in the USA. I'll stick to UK designed & made computers and
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> > with
> > OS. ;-)

> What did you guys use, the Spanish OS I mentioned years ago? Half the Mac
> users here buy the things to get away from M'soft.

I use RISC OS. Developed by Steve Furber (hardware) and Sophie Wilson
(software) at Acorn (Cambridge, UK). The OS is now further developed by RISCOS
Ltd and hardware currently by Castle & Advantage6. There's even a virtual
version that runs on top of Windows. The original design was the first RISC
desktop in the world and the latest (A9home) is the smallest (and coolest &
quietest & least power hungry) desktop computer in the world.

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hippo - 24 Feb 2006 02:11 GMT
"John Cartmell" wrote in message

> I use RISC OS. Developed by Steve Furber (hardware) and Sophie Wilson
> (software) at Acorn (Cambridge, UK). The OS is now further developed by
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> &
> quietest & least power hungry) desktop computer in the world.

How big is your RISC? -the Troll
John Cartmell - 24 Feb 2006 14:33 GMT
> "John Cartmell" wrote in message

> > I use RISC OS. Developed by Steve Furber (hardware) and Sophie Wilson
> > (software) at Acorn (Cambridge, UK). The OS is now further developed by
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> > (and coolest & quietest & least power hungry) desktop computer in the
> > world.

> How big is your RISC?

The A9 home measures 4"x6.5"x2" approx.

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hippo - 24 Feb 2006 15:22 GMT
"John Cartmell" wrote in message

> In article hippo wote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> The A9 home measures 4"x6.5"x2" approx.

Sorry, how much HD space does the OS take up? -the Troll
John Cartmell - 24 Feb 2006 16:40 GMT
> "John Cartmell" wrote in message

> > In article hippo wote:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> >
> > The A9 home measures 4"x6.5"x2" approx.

> Sorry, how much HD space does the OS take up?

None. It's in ROM.
Or do you mean the virtual RISC OS on Windows? That's 2.29MB. I have the OS
and all my files (essentially all my applications and work inc lots of
back-ups from my other machines) in an 11GB folder.

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hippo - 24 Feb 2006 20:12 GMT
"John Cartmell" wrote in message

> In article  hippo wrote:

>> >> > I use RISC OS. Developed by Steve Furber (hardware) and Sophie
>> >> > Wilson
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> and all my files (essentially all my applications and work inc lots of
> back-ups from my other machines) in an 11GB folder.

Jeez, that's fantastic. If it's cool and uses reduced power it should be
perfect for laptops which is all I use (and is the future). The Intel
Centrino is far cooler than the old chips for laptops but it's still
over-working my fan motor. Any plans for laptops? -the Troll
John Cartmell - 24 Feb 2006 21:07 GMT
> "John Cartmell" wrote in message

> > In article  hippo wrote:

> >> >> > I use RISC OS. Developed by Steve Furber (hardware) and Sophie
> >> >> > Wilson (software) at Acorn (Cambridge, UK). The OS is now further
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> > 2.29MB. I have the OS and all my files (essentially all my applications
> > and work inc lots of back-ups from my other machines) in an 11GB folder.

> Jeez, that's fantastic. If it's cool and uses reduced power it should be
> perfect for laptops which is all I use (and is the future). The Intel
> Centrino is far cooler than the old chips for laptops but it's still
> over-working my fan motor. Any plans for laptops?

The problem with laptops is the niche market in which RISC OS sells. So far
three hardware developers have looked at the prospect and tried to piggy-back
on case-designs for Wintel machines but none have been successful in getting a
machine to market. The A9home takes a power supply of 5V DC = 4A but most of
that is needed for the 4 USB sockets. An earlier RISC machine (the
RiscStation) was calculated to be capable of running off the power that could
be produced from the waste heat of the then current Pentium chips.

No fans in the A9 which is soon to be released as a retail product. I've had
my beta version since June and I'm getting it flash updated to the retail
version as soon as that's available! ;-)

www.thea9.info

BTW ignore the apparent slow processor speed. RISC machines work quite
differently than the 'standard' CISC computers and the speeds cannot be
directly compared.

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hippo - 25 Feb 2006 03:08 GMT
"John Cartmell" wrote in message

> In article hippo wrote:

> The problem with laptops is the niche market in which RISC OS sells. So
> far
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> differently than the 'standard' CISC computers and the speeds cannot be
> directly compared.

Just as they could not be compared with the Motorola chips used by Mac.
until recently.

Went to the site and it is way over my pay scale. It looks like an entirely
new concept which could easily be adapted to laptops which would kick the
slats out of any competition. Keep the faithful M'soft haters informed, and
I'm sick of replacing these things because of heat damage. -the Troll
John Cartmell - 26 Feb 2006 10:18 GMT
> It looks like an entirely new concept

The operating system is closely based on one old enough for Microsoft to have
used it as a model for versions of Windows since at least 3.1 - but M$ still
having managed to get it right! ;-)

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hippo - 26 Feb 2006 14:53 GMT
"John Cartmell" wrote in message

> In article hippo wrote:

>> It looks like an entirely new concept
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> still
> having managed to get it right! ;-)

Ain't competition great? :^) -the Troll
 
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