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"Bush Heckled In Australia As He Defends Iraq War"

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D. Spencer Hines - 23 Oct 2003 20:09 GMT
http://www.reuters.com/printerFriendlyPopup.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=3
674749

Hilarious Magnus Cum Laude!

And the hecklers could only round up 2,000 ragamuffins for their cause
in Canberra.

Pitiful!

Australia is indeed the Regional Suzerain ---- or "Sheriff" in the
American parlance ---- as we see in the Solomon Islands.

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor
Martin Reboul - 23 Oct 2003 22:49 GMT
D. Spencer Hines wrote...
> Hilarious Magnus Cum Laude!

I doubt if Bushbaby found it very funny?

> And the hecklers could only round up 2,000 ragamuffins for their cause
> in Canberra.
>
> Pitiful!

I'm heartened that 2000 even bothered to turn up to boo at the creep
at all!

How many turned up to cheer him in welcome at the airport David?

> Australia is indeed the Regional Suzerain ---- or "Sheriff" in the
> American parlance ---- as we see in the Solomon Islands.

The Solomon Islands! Shock, horror - surely not the next hotbed of
terrorism? A good choice - should be carpet bombed within a few
hours.

Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis
exponebantur ad necem.

Yes, you young Spency...
           Cheers
                 Martin
Drew Nicholson - 24 Oct 2003 00:29 GMT
<<I'm heartened that 2000 even bothered to turn up to boo at the creep at
all! >>

Interestingly, that's the same number of troops Australia sent to the Middle
East.

Drew
Tim O'Neill - 24 Oct 2003 04:20 GMT
> D. Spencer Hines wrote..

> > Hilarious Magnus Cum Laude!
>
> I doubt if Bushbaby found it very funny?

It's interesting that the Idiot Hines finds democratically elected
representatives going about the business of representing the views of
the majority of voters in the democracy of Australia (in the only way
left open to them by the way this
antiseptic/"keep-him-away-from-the-people-at-all-costs" flying visit
was organized) so funny.  Perhaps he doesn't like democracy.

Judging from the way the organisers of Bush's visit arranged things,
they certainly wanted to limit any possibility that (i) Bush got
anywhere near ordinary Australians and (ii) that anyone got the chance
to tell them what they really think of him over here.  The closest
thing to an ordinary Australian Bush met was Steve "Crocodile Hunter"
Irwin, a cartoon character created by the American media and then,
unfortunately, inflicted on us here.  We were hoping Bush would take
this plastic buffoon away with him but, alas, he was left behind.
Pity – I suspect he and Bush are highly compatible.

> > And the hecklers could only round up 2,000 ragamuffins for their cause in Canberra.
> >
> > Pitiful!
>
> I'm heartened that 2000 even bothered to turn up to boo at the creep at all!

Most people simply didn't bother.  Given that a huge exclusion zone
was erected around Parliament House – "the Peoples' House" apparently,
though not yesterday – and armies of police and security were posted
to keep anyone and everyone as far away from Bush as possible, any
form of protest was pretty futile.  But it's interesting to compare
this Presidential visit to the last two.  The former President Bush
was warmly received and spent several days here.  President Clinton
was even more warmly welcomed, with huge crowds making their way to
hear him speak (superbly) in the Domain one lunchtime here in Sydney.

Last night I met a mate for a drink at my local.  When Bush appeared
on the TV news in the bar there were several cries of "F*ck off you
moron!" from the regulars and general laughter around the bar.
Someone else shouted "We'll send you the bill, Georgie" – a reference
to the fact that this flying visit, most of which Dubya spent asleep,
cost the Australian taxpayer several million dollars.  Next time he
wants to thank us for helping him with one of his illegal wars maybe
he could simply send a note.

The man is widely despised here.  Aussies don't like liars.

> How many turned up to cheer him in welcome at the airport David?

Well, no-one actually.  As part of the desperate campaign to keep him
as removed as possible from real Australians, they sneaked him into
the country in the dead of night like a criminal.

And it got even more bizarre.  Here was Bush, supposedly coming to
Australia to thank the people of this country (the majority of whom
condemned and opposed his war in Iraq) for their "support". So how
many of the journalists at Bush's (brief) press conference were
Aussies?  70%?  50%?  10%?  Nope – try 0%.  That's right – no
Australian journalists were deemed fit to ask questions of Emperor
Bush.  Given Aussie journalists' reputation for asking hard questions
and not accepting bullshit for answers, this was clearly another part
of the attempt to stage manage this whole farcical visit.

Still, the people will have the last laugh.  Despite our toad-like
Prime Minister trying desperately to bask in the limelight yesterday,
the polls are indicating that the electorate is tiring of his lies and
brown-nosing.  With any luck, come next year, we'll be free of both
Bush and Howard.
Cheers,

Tim O'Neill
Neville Lindsay - 24 Oct 2003 04:49 GMT
> > D. Spencer Hines wrote..
>
[quoted text clipped - 70 lines]
>
> Tim O'Neill

I just love it when obsessive haters from a tiny minority pretend they
speaking for the majority.

I'll make a note of this post, and feed it back to you after the next
election.

NL
D. Spencer Hines - 24 Oct 2003 05:40 GMT
Yes, that's one of O'Neill's most hilarious and glaring faults.

Continually Displayed....

Indeed flaunted like a naughty small boy displaying his arse to the
girls on the school playground.

Only 2,000 demonstrators against Bush in Australia.

And two silly Greens in Parliament.

Pitiful!

There have been only 300 demonstrators here in Hawai'i ---- where the
Bushes are staying in Waikiki ---- and many were Pro-Bush.

Howard has been a stand-up guy throughout the War On Terror to date.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

| I just love it when obsessive haters from a tiny minority pretend they
| are speaking for the majority.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
|
| NL
Peter Jason - 24 Oct 2003 09:15 GMT
This post is typical of the rabid left, still sulking from the deliverence,
by the Queen's representative (bless!) of that bloated antiChrist Whitlam
and his cabal.
These direct descendents of the convict scum delivered to our shores by the
at-their-wits'-end English about 200 years ago, gave us a money-pit "free"
health system, "free" education (soon repealed), hyper inflation, turned a
blind eye to union thuggery and bloody-mindedness, and generally f.cked a
once-great country left up the arse.  And if this were not bad enough we are
infested now by "greenies", that horde of maggots crawled from the carcass
of the labour party, trumpeting and braying their sophistry with the help of
the new science of media wielding. These green bandits learned their
obstructive methods by intensive nuzzling at the teats of their union bosses
and the idle poor with time on their hands.  Having conquered Tasmania,
strangled its mining indusrry and flooded its hydroelectricity we can only
hope the bastards stay there.  Some of us have to work to pay the taxes to
support these parasites!

> > "Martin Reboul" <martin@reboul1471.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:<bn9j96$bem$2@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>...
[quoted text clipped - 82 lines]
>
> NL
John Cartmell - 24 Oct 2003 12:18 GMT
> These direct descendents of the convict scum delivered to our shores by
> the at-their-wits'-end English about 200 years ago, gave us a money-pit
> "free" health system, "free" education (soon repealed), hyper inflation,
> turned a blind eye to union thuggery and bloody-mindedness, and
> generally f.cked a once-great country left up the arse.

As you're obviously not descended from convict scum or the English then
maybe your ancestors arrived in Australia 40,000 years ago? No, not that;
your contempt for your environment makes it clear that's not the case. A
USAian who has lost his way? Possibly. Whatever I too am disgusted with
your fellow Australians who, in a land full of highly toxic animals,
haven't yet manged to rid themselves of this most dangerous of pests.

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Paul J Gans - 24 Oct 2003 17:29 GMT
In soc.history.medieval Peter Jason <paul@colonel.com.au> wrote:
>This post is typical of the rabid left, still sulking from the deliverence,
>by the Queen's representative (bless!) of that bloated antiChrist Whitlam
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>hope the bastards stay there.  Some of us have to work to pay the taxes to
>support these parasites!

>> > "Martin Reboul" <martin@reboul1471.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:<bn9j96$bem$2@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>...
[quoted text clipped - 84 lines]
>>
>> NL

I note with some sorrow that the self-proclaimed enemies of the
"rabid left" can only respond with invective.  While my own
reaction to arguments akin to "God will get you for that" is
not of any particular importance, I'd just note that name-calling
is for many of us a sure sign that the name-callers have lost the
argument.

  ---- Paul J. Gans
Martin Reboul - 24 Oct 2003 18:14 GMT
Paul J Gans wrote...

> >This post is typical of the rabid left, still sulking from the deliverence,
> >by the Queen's representative (bless!) of that bloated antiChrist Whitlam
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> is for many of us a sure sign that the name-callers have lost the
> argument.

God always seems to be 'otherwise occupied' when it comes to punishing the wicked and unjust, protecting and promoting those that worship him, showing His flag and ensuring the Forces of Darkness are kept in check? Could it be that His Omnipresence is not what it was, and He is busy doing paperwork or has gone on holiday for a few millenia or something? Or (more likely IMO) He has gone deaf, is not au fait with the latest technology, or just hasn't bothered to check our Universe for a while.
There's no point in asking - you'll get no reply (as The Sex Pistols said). Oh dear, another posting to explain at the Pearly Gates... well, someone has to say it...?

As for the Rabid Right, let them come on I say! A delight (to me) to take on these idiots in plain battle, er, I mean 'open debate' in a public 'arena'. More and more of them I notice... but just as unreasonable, stupid and easy to deal with, even though a few have shown signs of cunning lately... good! I like a challenge! Bring 'em on.....
           Cheers
                   Martin

 
Michael Kuettner - 24 Oct 2003 18:32 GMT
> God always seems to be 'otherwise occupied' when it comes to punishing the wicked and
> unjust, protecting and promoting those that worship him, showing His flag and ensuring the
> Forces of Darkness are kept in check? Could it be that His Omnipresence
is not what it was, > and He is busy doing paperwork or has gone on holiday
for a few millenia or something? Or
> (more likely IMO) He has gone deaf, is not au fait with the latest technology, or just hasn't
> bothered to check our Universe for a while.

Have you not read the Apokryphae ?
There it is said :
"And one the eighth day god created beer; and nobody has seen him after
that."

Salve et vale, fratre in Christo ;-),

Michael Kuettner
Paul J Gans - 25 Oct 2003 02:31 GMT
In soc.history.medieval Michael Kuettner <miksbg@eunet.at> wrote:

>> God always seems to be 'otherwise occupied' when it comes to punishing
>the wicked and
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>technology, or just hasn't
>> bothered to check our Universe for a while.

>Have you not read the Apokryphae ?
>There it is said :
>"And one the eighth day god created beer; and nobody has seen him after
>that."

>Salve et vale, fratre in Christo ;-),

Good one!  That's one I'm going to keep.

   ---- Paul J. Gans
Michael Kuettner - 09 Nov 2003 22:47 GMT
> In soc.history.medieval Michael Kuettner <miksbg@eunet.at> wrote:
<snip>
> >Have you not read the Apokryphae ?
> >There it is said :
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Good one!  That's one I'm going to keep.

I'm waaay behind my reading.
The above was a quote from Florian Eichhorn.
I just translated it.

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner
Evan Brennan - 21 Nov 2003 11:56 GMT
> As for the Rabid Right, let them come on I say!

In England, both sides should wear uniforms because the Rabid Left
is foaming at the mouth just as heavily.
Peter Jason - 21 Nov 2003 22:26 GMT
> > As for the Rabid Right, let them come on I say!
>
> In England, both sides should wear uniforms because the Rabid Left
> is foaming at the mouth just as heavily.

Meanwhile we normal few, apolitical as always, work like horses to pay taxes
to finance their welfare dependency.
Peter Jason - 25 Oct 2003 01:48 GMT
> In soc.history.medieval Peter Jason <paul@colonel.com.au> wrote:
> >This post is typical of the rabid left, still sulking from the deliverence,
[quoted text clipped - 111 lines]
>
>    ---- Paul J. Gans

I took a leaf from their book.  They didn't win the last election, we did.
If they want any sort of change, why not vote for their representative? The
Tasmanian example of the tactics of these people in blocking the Franklin
Dam, a project voted in by the then voters of Tasmania still rankles.  These
green bandits used guerilla tactics and not the ballot box.
John Cartmell - 25 Oct 2003 09:06 GMT
> blocking the Franklin Dam

So is the Franklin Dam project so special that it won't produce massive
environmental damage like practically every other large dam project ever?

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Tim O'Neill - 25 Oct 2003 23:04 GMT
> > blocking the Franklin Dam
>
> So is the Franklin Dam project so special that it won't produce massive
> environmental damage like practically every other large dam project ever?

John, this rabid twit Peter Jason is living in the past.  The Franklin
Dam issue was resolved 20 years ago, when the Australian electorate
elected Bob Hawke as Prime Minister on a platform of stopping the
Tasmanian Government's determination to dam the Franklin River.  The
Australian High Court then ruled that the Hawke Government had the
power to over-rule the Tasmanian Government to protect a World
Heritage wilderness area.

At the time, the Tasmanian Government argued that the Franklin Dam
would mean jobs, though the fact that it would have created a mere 35
jobs at the cost of the loss of vast areas of unique wilderness was
not something they said too loudly.  They also said they needed to
destroy this wilderness because otherwise Tasmania would run out of
power.  This was also crap - Tasmania now exports electricity to
Victoria.

In fact, far from ruining the Tasmanian economy, the world-wide
publicity for the cause of saving the Franklin River has brought
thousands of tourists to the region.  I went to the town of Strahan,
on the edge of the South-West wilderness, in 1982.  It was almost dead
- a dying mining town with no future.  I wenty back there last January
and almost didn't recognise the place.  It's a bustling community
based entirely on eco-tourism.  Thriving restaurants, pubs, shops and
about six river cruise companies taking packed boats of tourists to
see the river wilderness the Australian electorate saved.

The pro-development dinosaurs were wrong.  The "Greenies" were right.

The leading "Greenie" in the days of the Franklin campaign was Bob
Brown - the same guy who voiced his objections to Bush the other day
(he did not "shout" or "heckle" BTW).  Back when I was growing up in
Tasmania, Brown was a hated figure in many quarters; a wild-eyed,
ideologue who was going to destroy the Tasmanian economy with his
crazy "clean, green wilderness tourism" ideas.  Now when I talk to
many of the Tasmanians who despised him then, they speakly warmly of
him.  He has their respect for standing for what he believes in and
speaking forthrightly in a time of weasel words and blank rhetoric.

He was one of the few politicians who actually stood up against the
Howard Government's lies and racist manipulation over the refugees on
the MV Tampa and said "This is vile.  What sort of nation are we?"
He's been foremost in the campagain over the detention of innocent
men, women and children in prison camps as part of the Howard
Government's bizarre 'mandatory detention' policy towards asylum
seekers.  And he's been the only politician to dare to take up the
human rights issue of the two Australians held illegally, without
charge or trial, at Guantanamo Bay.  I used to have little time for
Brown, but he is man of integrity in a time when pustules like Howard
will send Aussie to war so he can secure a free trade deal.  He's a
man of principle, when toads like Howard will tell any lies he needs
to ('These refugees threw their children overboard!') to win
elections.

We need more men like Bob Brown.  And more "heckling".
Cheers,

Tim O'Neill
Peter Jason - 26 Oct 2003 01:54 GMT
Living in the past? Well I do like history, you ape.  Bringing in that
testosteroned-steeped, neanderthal-with-brain-transplant, drunken union
bully, Robert Hawke says it all.  His overriding bullying of a
fairly-elected government with a damming mandate, sets a dangerous precedent
for any pandering-to-Hoi-Polloi politician.

Opening the borders to all economic migrants and economic opportunists
sounds like a good idea to me!  When that sheep carrier finishes unloading
its cargo in East Africa, in a few days, why not have it call in to Rwanda,
Rhodesia, South Africa, et. al. and load up with "refugees" for return to
Australia, if there is any room left, the Phillipine "refugees" will fill
the gap on the return trip. Where will it end, you donkey!  Even in the
1910's the USA had Ellis Island, screening processes, and a QUOTA! Non the
less I would swap Rwandans for greenies any day. Any one with a brain, or
even a synapse, will understand that governments are elected to govern, and
even the mentally bereft like you get a chance to vote them out next time.
Eh wot! Brown! You fool, can't you see another cult guru with starry-eyes
followers marching into oblivion?  Can't you look into their eyes and see
that they are mad!?

I sort of like the gardens of Vaux and the ones of past Versailles, where
nature is bent to the will.

> > > blocking the Franklin Dam
> >
[quoted text clipped - 58 lines]
>
> Tim O'Neill
Peter Jason - 26 Oct 2003 01:27 GMT
Dams produce wealth and jobs and water, no less,  and "envionmental damage"
is the norm in a changing world as any geologist will tell you.
Isn't the 'resistance to change' a characteristic of religious zealots,
greenies and autistic people?  Perhaps a chromosomal analysis will help us
understand these freaks.

> > blocking the Franklin Dam
>
> So is the Franklin Dam project so special that it won't produce massive
> environmental damage like practically every other large dam project ever?
Paul J Gans - 26 Oct 2003 19:18 GMT
In soc.history.medieval Peter Jason <paul@colonel.com.au> wrote:
>Dams produce wealth and jobs and water, no less,  and "envionmental damage"
>is the norm in a changing world as any geologist will tell you.
>Isn't the 'resistance to change' a characteristic of religious zealots,
>greenies and autistic people?  Perhaps a chromosomal analysis will help us
>understand these freaks.

I think you misunderstand.  What you seem to be arguing is
change for the sake of change.  In that case building a
poison gas factory in the middle of a large city would be
a neat idea because it would provide jobs.

The notion that only eco-freaks oppose such things is
historically wrong.  Certain activities have been banned
or regulated since classical times, simply because they
were seen to be dangerous.

A typical example (to bring this on-topic for soc.history.
medieval) were the rules regarding the siting of smelters
in the Middle Ages.  They had to be out of town and what
was genearlly "downwind" of town.

Similar regulations concerned garbage dumping, waste
disposal, etc.

  ---- Paul J. Gans
Tim O'Neill - 27 Oct 2003 05:27 GMT
> Dams produce wealth and jobs and water, no less,  

The Franklin River dam was going to produce the grand total of 35 jobs
and provide electricity that, as it turned out, Tasmania didn't need.
Saving the Franklin has established a local eco-tourism that sustains
several (once dying) towns and employs thousands both directly and
indirectly.

But you favour destroying one of the largest tracts of pristine
temperate rainforest on earth, several archaeological sites and two
unique river systems for 35 jobs?  Remind me, who's the "freak" here?

>  and "envionmental damage" is the norm in a changing world as any geologist
> will tell you.

"Death" is the norm in human affairs as any undertaker will tell you.
This doesn't justify shooting people in the head for 25 cents.

> Isn't the 'resistance to change' a characteristic of religious zealots,
> greenies and autistic people?  

I thought it was the defining characteristic of social and political
conservatives.  I'm not sure what group of idiots are defined by the
desire to destroy assets of irreplacable value for a tiny but quick
buck, but you appear to fall into that category.  You'd also tear up
the Mona Lisa to sell its frame for firewood?  Hey, you could demolish
the Sistine Chapel and sell its rubble for road building material.
It's going to fall down one day anyway, so what the heck.

This sort of moron gives stupid people a bad name.
M. J. Powell - 27 Oct 2003 12:55 GMT
>> Isn't the 'resistance to change' a characteristic of religious zealots,
>> greenies and autistic people?
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>This sort of moron gives stupid people a bad name.

Have a word with our Mr Prescott, will you? He has just given permission
for wind farms to be built right up to the boundary of National Parks.

Mike
Signature

M.J.Powell

Michael W Cook - 27 Oct 2003 15:40 GMT
>>> Isn't the 'resistance to change' a characteristic of religious zealots,
>>> greenies and autistic people?
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Mike

I'd rather have them than a Nuclear Power Station or reservoir.

MWC
Peter Jason - 28 Oct 2003 04:30 GMT
< contrived errant twaddle expunged >

( Yawn )

<insert witticism here >

The point is one of political legitimacy.  That government was voted in to
build the dam but was defeated by greenie guerrilla tactics and the
machinations of the Silver Bodgie (now slumping into feather dusterdom).  My
opinions are irrelevant to the matter and I would just as soon burn it all
down together with the few mangy thylacines loitering there, but I must
defer to the majority in a democracy, as should have the greenies in that
case.  Do you Tasmanians send everything to the high court for its
imprimatur?  Anyone can lobby any government for change, and anyone with a
point of view has the right to persuade others.  The guru Brown is quite
mad, as time will show.

< insert gobsmacking fallacies here >

I see you have used the first rule of sophistry (the straw-man fallacy) by
portraying me as an artless redneck, so drawing the argument away from the
relevant point.  I would seize the Ms Lisa frame, which is a square object,
and ram it into a round hole, and so shut you up.

< bash head against the wall here>

Do stay in Tasmania; I'm never going to visit the place. But then, their
gene pool does need augmenting!

This is a link to a mangy thylacine, somewhere in the useless fierce
Tasmanian wilderness.
http://www.austmus.gov.au/collections/images/thylacine.jpg
John Cartmell - 28 Oct 2003 20:47 GMT
> I see you have used the first rule of sophistry (the straw-man fallacy)
> by portraying me as an artless redneck

I don't know you but you did use their arguments...

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John Cartmell - 28 Oct 2003 20:45 GMT
> Dams produce wealth and jobs and water, no less,  and "envionmental
> damage" is the norm in a changing world as any geologist will tell you.

They don't.
Only short term and at massive (money0 cost.
They don't.
It isn't.

[and stop blaming plate techtonics for your own crimes]

> Isn't the 'resistance to change' a characteristic of religious zealots,
> greenies and autistic people?  Perhaps a chromosomal analysis will help
> us understand these freaks.

No it isn't.

[and are you suggesting that *any* change would be good - in which case can
I suggest* you be fed to some of Australia's off-shore wildlife?]

Don't be silly.

*it would be a change ;-)

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Peter Jason - 29 Oct 2003 01:00 GMT
> > Dams produce wealth and jobs and water, no less,  and "envionmental
> > damage" is the norm in a changing world as any geologist will tell you.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> *it would be a change ;-)

Ouch...!
Now I know how it feels to be birched by a buxom Maitresse!
So ex cathedra!
:-()
Drew Nicholson - 25 Oct 2003 02:18 GMT
> >"Neville Lindsay" <nevlin@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>    ---- Paul J. Gans

Of course he's lose the argument.

From the NYT:  http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/24/politics/24PREX.html?th

<<In his six-day dash from Tokyo to the Philippines to Singapore, Indonesia
and Australia, rarely did the searing suspicions of America's intentions -
and the intentions of Mr. Bush himself - pierce the president's fearsome
security bubble. But when they did, they revealed a huge gulf between how
the president views himself, and how Asians view George W. Bush's America.
By and large the encounters were painfully polite, even when Mr. Bush
decided to take on directly Malaysia's cantankerous prime minister, Mahathir
Mohamad, who declared that Jews run the world, and run it from the United
States. More boisterous in their anti-Bush enthusiasm were the members of
the Australian Parliament who heckled him during a speech, shouting that the
United States had no right to become the world's sheriff.

White House officials wrote off the first to the anti-Semitic mutterings of
a soon-to-be-retired autocrat, and the second to the local traditions of
parliamentary decorum here, which bear a close resemblance to Australian
rugby rules. But beneath both incidents lay uncomfortable realities for Mr.
Bush: Mr. Mahathir's speech drew a standing ovation from world leaders at a
major Islamic conference last week - including American allies - and polls
show that Mr. Bush's approach to the world is deeply unpopular among
Australians. >>

The words "deeply unpopular" are, I think, rather relevant.  Nellie, of
course, will ignore them.

Drew
Michael W Cook - 25 Oct 2003 16:13 GMT
>>> "Neville Lindsay" <nevlin@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
>
> Drew

I've no doubt the people chosen to be 'allowed' within Bush's 'security
bubble' when he visits Britain have already been vetted and received their
invitations.

I wonder if Tone is going to take him for a beer at the Sedgefield Labour
Club, so he can show GWB what a man of the people and how loved he is ?

'This is my local, George, what'll you be having ? "

"Thank you, friend, I'll have a line, sorry, a diet coke."

"Tone, why is there nobody under 60 in here ?"

"Leo and Cherie are here, George, all the others vote for me you know."

"But they're all old, Tone"

"So they are, now, what was that lie you want me to tell about the war on
terror in my next speech to the UN ?"

"Oh yes, I want you to implement Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas, Arafat, bin
Laden and Loyalists to Saddam for all the problems we having in Iraq.
I also want you to blame them for the downturn in the US economy, job losses
and accuse them of being responsible for the lies we both told about WMD."

"Woof woof, George"

I can't remember a President of the US being so universally despised since
Nixon over Vietnam. Even Baby Bush's father went walkabout here, and Clinton
continually wowed the crowds and brought the house down with a standing
ovation wherever he went.

The only time GWB has ever brought the house down is with a missile.

As in Australia, when Bush comes to Britain, the real people will be kept as
far away as possible so as to save any embarrassment.

But somehow, me thinks, it won't be quite enough and some will get through.
hippo - 26 Oct 2003 21:41 GMT
"Paul J Gans" wrote in message

> I note with some sorrow that the self-proclaimed enemies of the
> "rabid left" can only respond with invective.  While my own
> reaction to arguments akin to "God will get you for that" is
> not of any particular importance, I'd just note that name-calling
> is for many of us a sure sign that the name-callers have lost the
> argument.

I must still be winning. :^) -the Troll
Tim O'Neill - 25 Oct 2003 00:11 GMT
> I just love it when obsessive haters from a tiny minority pretend they
> speaking for the majority.

Yes, "obsessive haters".  I despise this clown, who has been
manipulated
by his self-styled neo-con 'Cabal' into manufacturing the debacle in
Iraq
over a non-existant WMD threat, causing the deaths of thousands of
innocent people, because I'm an "obsessive hater".  I object to the
current Australian government, which has been exposed as a pack of
craven yes men dominated by a liar and toady, because I'm an
"obsessive hater".  I have nothing better to do than to obsessively
hate these people for no valid reason.

Glad we sorted that out Neville.

"Tiny minority".  

The majority of Australians opposed the war in Iraq.
The majority of Australians believe the Prime Minister misled the
public over the WMDs issue.

You might also recall the vast demonstrations against the Iraq war
earlier this year - over a million people marched in the biggest
protests in Australian history.  "Tiny minority"?

> I'll make a note of this post, and feed it back to you after the next
> election.

You'll feed back to me a post where I said I hoped the toad Howard is
defeated.  Er, okay.  Devasting stuff.

PS The honking, braying moron Hines just posted in support of you -
what does this tell you?  You might also want to read the sober,
cogent and beautifully written post (below) of "Peter Jason".  And
then worry.
Have a lovely weekend Neville,

Tim O'Neill
Peter Jason - 25 Oct 2003 01:37 GMT
We happen to be an ally of the USA, you jingoist,  which brings certain
obligations with it including treading the path of uncertainty.  Most people
in Australia and everywhere else are working to better themselves and their
families and don't give a rat's about the squealing left-wing greenies and
their obsessions.   We used to live in caves you know, but we crawled out
long ago. Fuzzball!

> > I just love it when obsessive haters from a tiny minority pretend they
> > speaking for the majority.
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> Tim O'Neill
Brian M. Scott - 25 Oct 2003 02:13 GMT
>We happen to be an ally of the USA, you jingoist,  
                                        ^^^^^^^^
Amazing!  I do believe that he's stupider than Neville.

[...]
Peter Jason - 26 Oct 2003 01:55 GMT
Do you mean the Earl of Warwick?

> >We happen to be an ally of the USA, you jingoist,
>                                          ^^^^^^^^
> Amazing!  I do believe that he's stupider than Neville.
>
> [...]
Neville Lindsay - 26 Oct 2003 04:33 GMT
> >We happen to be an ally of the USA, you jingoist,
>                                          ^^^^^^^^
> Amazing!  I do believe that he's stupider than Neville.
>
> [...]

Ah! Corner-rat Scott scuttles out to have a quick bite before running back
tail between legs. His usual standard contribution to discussion.

NL
Brian M. Scott - 26 Oct 2003 17:15 GMT
>> >We happen to be an ally of the USA, you jingoist,
>>                                          ^^^^^^^^
>> Amazing!  I do believe that he's stupider than Neville.

>> [...]

>Ah! Corner-rat Scott scuttles out to have a quick bite before running back
>tail between legs. His usual standard contribution to discussion.

Ah, perhaps I was mistaken after all.  Peter Jason doesn't
understand 'jingoist', but Neville doesn't understand
'discussion'.
Neville Lindsay - 27 Oct 2003 03:50 GMT
> >> >We happen to be an ally of the USA, you jingoist,
> >>                                          ^^^^^^^^
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> understand 'jingoist', but Neville doesn't understand
> 'discussion'.

I do indeed understand discussion. And my complaint is that you _never_
indulge in discussion in the cross-posts to alt.history.british, just hang
around to put in a quick bite and scuttle away. Hence my description of you
as a corner-rat. Now perhaps you might like to maintain that your
'contribution' above "Amazing!  I do believe that he's stupider than
Neville" is 'discussion' however most people recognise it as ad hominem. If
you think it is 'discussion' you are going to win the 'stupider' stakes by
the length of the straight.

NL
Michael W Cook - 24 Oct 2003 19:44 GMT
>> D. Spencer Hines wrote..
>
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
>
> Tim O'Neill

I've a feeling his visit to Britain next month will be exactly the same.

MWC
hippo - 26 Oct 2003 23:58 GMT
"Michael W Cook" wrote in message

> I've a feeling his visit to Britain next month will be exactly the same.

They are always the same. Governments can't permit a ten second delay in The
Schedule. The Schedule is made at the result of the sweat of a thousand
bureaucrats toiling away for the public good and at the public trough. As
with all such endeavors it is the product constant negotiation and
compromise between the under-secretaries of nourishment (liquid and solid),
sleep, air and ground transport, jocular and ad lib remarks, natural
processes, hand shaking and waving, speechifying, press ops, and all the
rest, all in the best democratic tradition. -the Troll
Neville Lindsay - 27 Oct 2003 03:58 GMT
> "Michael W Cook" wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> processes, hand shaking and waving, speechifying, press ops, and all the
> rest, all in the best democratic tradition. -the Troll

And of course, directly to his statement, it _will_ be exactly the same -
the same tired old rent-a-crowd will turn out to vent their universal bile
and hatred of the US and Bush. Very predictable. And the smart and thinking
liberals, who know that unreasoning, all-encompassing hatred  is a sign of
mental unhealth, will join the majority of apathetics by staying away. So
the tiny rump of irrational haters expose themselves for what they are, as
do their compatriots on these ngs.

NL
hippo - 27 Oct 2003 04:47 GMT
"Neville Lindsay"  wrote in message

> "hippo" wrote in message

> > "Michael W Cook" wrote in message
> >
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> > processes, hand shaking and waving, speechifying, press ops, and all the
> > rest, all in the best democratic tradition. -the Troll

> And of course, directly to his statement, it _will_ be exactly the same -
> the same tired old rent-a-crowd will turn out to vent their universal bile
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> the tiny rump of irrational haters expose themselves for what they are, as
> do their compatriots on these ngs.

Chuckle, that too is true. -the Troll
Michael W Cook - 27 Oct 2003 15:36 GMT
>> "Michael W Cook" wrote in message
>>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> NL

Hilarious.

If Brian Scott is a 'Corner Rat', that must make Neville a 'Sewer Rat'.

What with his dinosaur politics, his unashamed love of Bush and the far
right, me thinks he was born in the wrong era and wrong country.

Neville is very much like a Bush visit - he shields himself away from
reality, and, as usual, is completely out of touch - 'You are either with
him, or against him' .

Most are against, but this doesn't seem to worry Neville.

As with Bush, there's no neutrality for Neville, everything is Black and
White - the Reds under his bed are still very much alive and kicking in his
tunnelled vision of the world.

Poor Neville.

He's never got over having a girl's name as a surname, or his Great Great
Grandfather arriving in Oz on a ship in chains.

My father once said to me, you can walk into a bar with 500 people in it, if
there's an Australian in there you'll hear him - Neville is that Australian.

Of course, I've since realised that this doesn't apply for all Australians,
just the odd few, who are f.cked up and stupid like Neville.

MWC
Neville Lindsay - 28 Oct 2003 01:09 GMT
> >> "Michael W Cook" wrote in message
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 50 lines]
>
> MWC

My, my. I have really got to that twit. Actually its so easy, I feel a bit
ashamed taking such advantage of him. But when someone has to spend that
amount of ink spewing bile, they are really on the skewer. Still, after
being exposed as one of the mentally-unstable liberals, you would expect
such a mentally-unstable response. Expecting logical replies rather than
red-haze abuse from obsessive haters is chasing hens' teeth.

NL
Martin Reboul - 28 Oct 2003 04:25 GMT
> > >> "Michael W Cook" wrote in message
> > >>
[quoted text clipped - 62 lines]
> Australians,
> > just the odd few, who are f.cked up and stupid like Neville.

Like Seppo the Clown? Of course! I thought I saw a resemblance.

> My, my. I have really got to that twit. Actually its so easy, I feel a bit
> ashamed taking such advantage of him. But when someone has to spend that
> amount of ink spewing bile, they are really on the skewer. Still, after
> being exposed as one of the mentally-unstable liberals, you would expect
> such a mentally-unstable response. Expecting logical replies rather than
> red-haze abuse from obsessive haters is chasing hens' teeth.

Is this an attempt as scathing 'wit' Neville? You'll have to do a lot better than that sport! You're learning though, shows promise. Pay attention and one day, who knows?
             Cheers
                      Martin
Neville Lindsay - 28 Oct 2003 04:51 GMT
> > in article BR%mb.166586$bo1.112840@news-server.bigpond.net.au, Neville
> > Lindsay at nevlin@bigpond.net.au wrote on 27/10/03 2:58 am:
[quoted text clipped - 65 lines]
> Australians,
> > just the odd few, who are f.cked up and stupid like Neville.

Like Seppo the Clown? Of course! I thought I saw a resemblance.

> My, my. I have really got to that twit. Actually its so easy, I feel a bit
> ashamed taking such advantage of him. But when someone has to spend that
> amount of ink spewing bile, they are really on the skewer. Still, after
> being exposed as one of the mentally-unstable liberals, you would expect
> such a mentally-unstable response. Expecting logical replies rather than
> red-haze abuse from obsessive haters is chasing hens' teeth.

Is this an attempt as scathing 'wit' Neville? You'll have to do a lot better
than that sport! You're learning though, shows promise. Pay attention and
one day, who knows?
             Cheers
                      Martin

Glad to see you have got over your druggie-rave at Chris. Even your
fellow-travellers realised it and told you to cool it. Keep at it, I know
how withdrawal hurts. Good luck.

NL
Martin Reboul - 28 Oct 2003 22:24 GMT
Neville Lindsay wrote...

> Glad to see you have got over your druggie-rave at Chris. Even your
> fellow-travellers realised it and told you to cool it. Keep at it, I know
> how withdrawal hurts. Good luck.

Do you indeed Neville? Sorry about that - not nice to see, no.
I'm glad to see you're keeping up with my posts anyway, most gratifying, you
may learn something.
What was your poison I wonder... a benzodiazepene man I'll warrant... just a
guess? Obviously nothing that stimulated your mind, that's obvious.
                   Cheers
                         Martin
Michael W Cook - 28 Oct 2003 18:46 GMT
>>>> "Michael W Cook" wrote in message
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 73 lines]
>
> NL

"Got to that twit" ?

On the contrary, Neville, I always talk to idiots like you in that manner.

MWC
Neville Lindsay - 29 Oct 2003 05:17 GMT
> >>>> "Michael W Cook" wrote in message
> >>>>
[quoted text clipped - 79 lines]
>
> MWC

Glad to see you recognise you are a twit.

NL
John Cartmell - 28 Oct 2003 20:59 GMT
> will turn out to vent their universal bile and hatred of the US and Bush

are you suggesting that the US and Bush are *universally* hated?        ;-)

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Neville Lindsay - 29 Oct 2003 05:22 GMT
> > will turn out to vent their universal bile and hatred of the US and Bush
>
> are you suggesting that the US and Bush are *universally* hated?        ;-)

Showing your lack of attention span, or was it just the juvenile snipping to
conceal what I really said:
"the same tired old rent-a-crowd will turn out to vent their universal bile
and hatred of the US and Bush. Very predictable"

To an intelligent reader, or one who just tries, the 'universal' clearly
applies to the rent-a-crowd's universal bile and hatred. Pretty simple
really, and it is beyond you?

NL
John Cartmell - 29 Oct 2003 19:46 GMT
> Showing your lack of attention span, or was it just the juvenile
> snipping to conceal what I really said: "the same tired old rent-a-crowd
> will turn out to vent their universal bile and hatred of the US and
> Bush. Very predictable"

It's a silly comment. It's easy to make silly comments as I illustrated.
With no reason and certainly no proof that such a crowd even exists and
certainly no evidence that such a crowd turned out in this case, was
unrepresentative, hated Bush & the USA rather than the specific actions of
Bush/the USA, &c it's fairly clear that you were just throwing cliches to
produce an effect.

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Neville Lindsay - 30 Oct 2003 00:42 GMT
> > Showing your lack of attention span, or was it just the juvenile
> > snipping to conceal what I really said: "the same tired old rent-a-crowd
> > will turn out to vent their universal bile and hatred of the US and
> > Bush. Very predictable"

> It's a silly comment. It's easy to make silly comments as I illustrated.
> With no reason and certainly no proof that such a crowd even exists and
> certainly no evidence that such a crowd turned out in this case, was
> unrepresentative, hated Bush & the USA rather than the specific actions of
> Bush/the USA, &c it's fairly clear that you were just throwing cliches to
> produce an effect.

You think it's a silly comment, yet just about everyone but you knows
differently. These rent-a-crowds appear all round the world - same old
faces, take on any cause, noble or silly, doesn't matter. And embedded
amongst them, organising and initiating violence where they can, is the
hate-brigade.

And physically altering people's words to read something opposite is a no-no
to honest people - simply lowlife. You do yourself no credit lying to
'illustrate'. All you illustrate is a lack of honesty and credibility.

NL
Tiglath - 30 Oct 2003 20:29 GMT
> You think it's a silly comment, yet just about everyone but you knows
> differently. These rent-a-crowds appear all round the world - same old
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> to honest people - simply lowlife. You do yourself no credit lying to
> 'illustrate'. All you illustrate is a lack of honesty and credibility.

No bad outcome, no failure, no miscalculation, no disparity between aim and
hit can persuade this poster that the war with Iraq has been from conception
to aftermath a resounding fiasco.   All the bad news about this war, the
fallout with long time allies, the U.N. crisis, the false casus belli, the
conspicuous absence of WMD, the quagmire, are in this poster's mind just the
fabrication of "rabid anti-Bush detractors."

This man is in perpetual denial.   He and other hawks around here get red in
the face daily arteries bulging straining to curtain off reality.

EYES WIDE SHUT

As MAUREEN DOWD of the New York Times puts it well...

"Speaking to reporters this week, Mr. Bush made the bizarre argument that
the worse things get in Iraq, the better news it is. 'The more successful we
are on the ground, the more these killers will react,' he said.
"In the Panglossian Potomac, calamities happen for the best. One could
almost hear the doubletalk echo of that American officer in Vietnam who
said: 'It was necessary to destroy the village in order to save it.'

"The war began with Bush illogic: false intelligence (from Niger to nuclear)
used to bolster a false casus belli (imminent threat to our security) based
on a quartet of false premises (that we could easily finish off Saddam and
the Baathists, scare the terrorists and democratize Iraq without leeching
our economy).

"Now Bush illogic continues: The more Americans, Iraqis and aid workers who
get killed and wounded, the more it is a sign of American progress. The more
dangerous Iraq is, the safer the world is. The more troops we seem to need
in Iraq, the less we need to send more troops.

"The harder it is to find Saddam, Osama and W.M.D., the less they mattered
anyhow. The more coordinated, intense and sophisticated the attacks on our
soldiers grow, the more 'desperate' the enemy is.

"After admitting recently that Saddam had no connection to 9/11, the
president pounded his finger on his lectern on Tuesday, while vowing to stay
in Iraq, and said, 'We must never forget the lessons of Sept. 11.'

"Mr. Bush looked buck-passy when he denied that the White House, which
throws up PowerPoint slogans behind his head on TV, was behind the 'Mission
Accomplished' banner. And Donald Rumsfeld looked duplicitous when he
acknowledged in a private memo, after brusquely upbeat public briefings,
that America was in for a 'long, hard slog' in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"No juxtaposition is too absurd to stop Bush officials from insisting
nothing is wrong. Car bombs and a blitz of air-to-ground missiles turned
Iraq into a hideous tangle of ambulances, stretchers and dead bodies, just
after Paul Wolfowitz arrived there to showcase successes."

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/30/opinion/30DOWD.html
Tim O'Neill - 31 Oct 2003 23:09 GMT
> > You think it's a silly comment, yet just about everyone but you knows
> > differently. These rent-a-crowds appear all round the world - same old
> > faces, take on any cause, noble or silly, doesn't matter. And embedded
> > amongst them, organising and initiating violence where they can, is the
> > hate-brigade.

> This man is in perpetual denial.   He and other hawks around here get red in
> the face daily arteries bulging straining to curtain off reality.

Indeed.  And Neville is not the only deluded clown with his eyes wide
shut.  David E. Sanger of the New York Times, who accompanied Dubya on
his sanitised whirlwind trip to and from Australia's capital, comments
that Bush seems to have just managed to get a glimmering of exactly
how hated he is.  It came, apparently, as a shock to the Texas boy in
a bubble of delusion:

WHITE HOUSE MEMO

By DAVID E. SANGER

New York Times

CANBERRA, Australia, Oct. 23 — Minutes after President Bush finished
an hourlong meeting with moderate Islamic leaders on the island of
Bali on Wednesday, he approached his staff with something of a puzzled
look on his face.

"Do they really believe that we think all Muslims are terrorists?" he
asked, shaking his head. He was equally distressed, he told them, to
hear that the United States was so pro-Israel that it was uninterested
in the creation of a Palestinian state living alongside Israel,
despite his frequent declarations calling for exactly that.

It was a revealing moment precisely because the president was so
surprised.

In his six-day dash from Tokyo to the Philippines to Singapore,
Indonesia and Australia, rarely did the searing suspicions of
America's intentions — and the intentions of Mr. Bush himself — pierce
the president's fearsome security bubble. But when they did, they
revealed a huge gulf between how the president views himself, and how
Asians view George W. Bush's America.

By and large the encounters were painfully polite, even when Mr. Bush
decided to take on directly Malaysia's cantankerous prime minister,
Mahathir Mohamad, who declared that Jews run the world, and run it
from the United States. More boisterous in their anti-Bush enthusiasm
were the members of the Australian Parliament who heckled him during a
speech, shouting that the United States had no right to become the
world's sheriff.

White House officials wrote off the first to the anti-Semitic
mutterings of a soon-to-be-retired autocrat, and the second to the
local traditions of parliamentary decorum here, which bear a close
resemblance to Australian rugby rules. But beneath both incidents lay
uncomfortable realities for Mr. Bush: Mr. Mahathir's speech drew a
standing ovation from world leaders at a major Islamic conference last
week — including American allies — and polls show that Mr. Bush's
approach to the world is deeply unpopular among Australians.

Yet for his part, Mr. Bush seemed determined to show that Iraq was a
special case and to dispel the impression held in many parts of the
world that he is impatient, trigger-happy and uninterested in building
alliances. He sounds like a man who believes himself genuinely
misunderstood.

"I've been saying all along that not every policy issue needs to be
dealt with by force," Mr. Bush insisted in the conference room of Air
Force One as he left Bali and headed here to Australia's capital.

He invited reporters to look at how he is now handling North Korea.
Mr. Bush spent most of his visit whipping South Korea, Japan, Russia
and China into a common approach — telling North Korea that some form
of written guarantee of the country's security, in return for full
disarmament of its nuclear programs, is the best deal it will ever
get.

Similarly, he welcomed Europe's intervention to get Iran to stop its
nuclear program, saying he was happy to have someone else play the
heavy. "It's the same approach," he said, "the kind of approach we're
taking in North Korea as well, a collective voice trying to convince a
leader to change behavior."

But even some of Mr. Bush's aides concede that Mr. Bush has only begun
to discover the gap between the picture of a benign superpower that he
sees, and the far more calculating, self-interested, anti-Muslim
America the world perceives as he speeds by behind dark windows.

"On a trip like this he can get a glimpse of it, but only a glimpse,"
one senior official who sat in on several meetings said. "Of course,
when you are moving at warp speed, there isn't a lot of time to think
about what you are hearing."

Notably missing from this trip were the big crowds that have almost
always turned out for a glimpse of the world's most powerful leader.
To some extent, that was planned: Thailand, where Mr. Bush stayed the
longest for the annual Asian economic forum, gave workers a holiday
and made it clear that protests would not be tolerated.

In Indonesia, the Secret Service would not let the president get more
than a mile off the grounds of the airport in Bali — the
overwhelmingly Hindu island of the world's largest Islamic nation. The
result was that only ordinary Indonesians to see the first American
president to to visit their country in more that a decade were selling
Coke from a stand outside the airport fence.

Similarly, in Australia Mr. Bush visited only this prim-and-proper
capital, where few Australians without government business ever step.
(Hu Jintao, the Chinese president, was beginning to take a much more
extensive tour of the country as Mr. Bush was leaving.)

All this is in sharp contrast to the last presidential tour of the
region, when President Bill Clinton visited Vietnam at the end of
2000, talking to mayors about housing and health care, touring ancient
temples and new factories, his car weaving through streets packed
five- and six-deep with Vietnamese who said America, once an enemy,
was now the path to prosperity.

That, of course, was a different time, and Mr. Bush's aides say Mr.
Clinton viewed Southeast Asia through the cheery glasses of economic
globalization, while Mr. Bush is forcing governments that would rather
turn the other way to face the threats brewing in their own villages.

It is an unpleasant message, and the risk facing Mr. Bush is that
important parts of it get lost in translation. In Indonesia and the
Philippines, one American official with long experience in Asia noted
during the president's tour, "people are tired of hearing that they
are the front line of terrorism, and over time they come to blame the
messenger."

Mr. Bush, in his exchange with reporters on Air Force One, expressed
some regret that he did not have the time to explain himself better.
"There was kind of a sense that American believe that Muslims are
terrorists," he said, and he tried to defuse that by assuring them
that "Americans know that these terrorists are hiding behind Islam in
order to create fear and chaos and death." And he tried to explain his
Middle East policy, he said, but seemed to acknowledge that his
message probably did not sink in.

"I didn't really have time to go in further than that," he said.

The recent shrieking from the Liberal Party over the Green Senators'
mild but important interjection shows how outraged they are at the
idea of forthright representatives of democracy pricking this deluded
deluder's bubble of deceit.  In a bizzare outburst, one of John
Howard's attack dogs hit back at the Greens, comparing them to the
Nazis.  Using a tortuous line of argument, Liberal Senator George
Brandis tried desperately to link the Australian Greens to their
German counterparts, who Brandis claimed were, deep down, racist,
anti-immigration, anti-democratic and fanatics.  This weird
association has been widely derided as utter nonsense (if Bob Brown is
a racist, he's been hiding it well) and a clear indication that the
Australian Government is rattled by the warmth of the reception to the
Greens' "heckling" by the electorate.

It's also an indication of how angry Howard's government is that their
careful stage-management of the Bush visit didn't turn up the results
they wanted.  The papers were meant to be full of bland but positive
descriptions of Little Johnny strutting the stage with the "Leader of
the Free World".  Instead the Australian and foreign press were
focused on all the wrong things - the depth of anger in a wide portion
of the Australian public over Bush and Howard's lies about Iraq's
so-called "threat" and the hypocritical farce of the illegal detention
of Hicks and Habib at the Guantanamo gulag.

Bush flew back to the US blinking in disbelief.  "They don't like me?
How can this be?"

Think about it George.

And morons like Neville are mumbling about how "impolite" it was to
interupt Dubya's banal speech with something as inconvenient as the
truth.  Hilarious. Ask that kid Ali, the one with no arms and no
family, how "impolite" it was to shatter his life over a pack of
f.cking lies.

The Greens can be very satisfied.  "Mission Accomplished", as Dubya
would say.
Cheers,

Tim O'Neill
Peter Jason - 01 Nov 2003 01:53 GMT
<................yawn!>
More left-wing sedition.

> > > You think it's a silly comment, yet just about everyone but you knows
> > > differently. These rent-a-crowds appear all round the world - same old
[quoted text clipped - 177 lines]
>
> Tim O'Neill
John Cartmell - 01 Nov 2003 02:09 GMT
> <................yawn!>
> More left-wing sedition.

More right wing incompetence?
Can't snip.
Insists on top-posting.
Doesn't add anything of value.

If you don't get the basic good manners right how do you expect us to take
you seriously?

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Paul J Gans - 01 Nov 2003 05:18 GMT
In alt.history.british Peter Jason <paul@colonel.com.au> wrote:
><................yawn!>
>More left-wing sedition.

If you fellows really want to capture the hearts and minds
of anybody whose IQ is above 80, you will have to answer
criticism with comments that are a bit more to the point.

   --- Paul J. Gans

>> "Tiglath" <tiglath@tiglath.net> wrote in message
>news:<bnrdo6$4c4$1@bob.news.rcn.net>...
[quoted text clipped - 182 lines]
>>
>> Tim O'Neill
Neville Lindsay - 01 Nov 2003 07:47 GMT
> In alt.history.british Peter Jason <paul@colonel.com.au> wrote:
> ><................yawn!>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>     --- Paul J. Gans

Well, of the combined IQ of about 112 of the knee-jerk abusers here - Cook,
Reboul and some other in my killfile, as demonstrated by their so erudite
one-line ravings, O'Neill accounts for 110 of them, as he can at least put a
few words together. So you really can't criticise Peter too much, he is
usually a bit ahead of the rest of that pack of drongos.

NL

> >> "Tiglath" <tiglath@tiglath.net> wrote in message
> >news:<bnrdo6$4c4$1@bob.news.rcn.net>...
[quoted text clipped - 182 lines]
> >>
> >> Tim O'Neill
Paul J Gans - 02 Nov 2003 03:41 GMT
In alt.history.british Neville Lindsay <nevlin@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

>> In alt.history.british Peter Jason <paul@colonel.com.au> wrote:
>> ><................yawn!>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>>
>>     --- Paul J. Gans

>Well, of the combined IQ of about 112 of the knee-jerk abusers here - Cook,
>Reboul and some other in my killfile, as demonstrated by their so erudite
>one-line ravings, O'Neill accounts for 110 of them, as he can at least put a
>few words together. So you really can't criticise Peter too much, he is
>usually a bit ahead of the rest of that pack of drongos.

>NL

See what I mean?

Another fellow shot in the foot.

   ----- Paul J. Gans
Michael W Cook - 10 Nov 2003 15:35 GMT
>>> You think it's a silly comment, yet just about everyone but you knows
>>> differently. These rent-a-crowds appear all round the world - same old
[quoted text clipped - 177 lines]
>
> Tim O'Neill

Good article, Tim, thanks.

Expect more if not worse when he comes here next week.

Cheers

MWC
M. J. Powell - 10 Nov 2003 17:33 GMT
>>>> You think it's a silly comment, yet just about everyone but you knows
>>>> differently. These rent-a-crowds appear all round the world - same old
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>>
>> Think about it George.

Report snipped.

And there are reports in the paper today that the US Secret Service
wants all of Central London to be closed off during his visit.

And the US SS has been given permission to carry guns.

What odds on a friendly-fire incident that will be hushed up and
uninvestigated?

Mike
Signature

M.J.Powell

Drew Nicholson - 11 Nov 2003 01:21 GMT
> Report snipped.
>
> And there are reports in the paper today that the US Secret Service
> wants all of Central London to be closed off during his visit.
>
> And the US SS has been given permission to carry guns.

I've also read that some brit cops will be armed and authorized to shoot
anyone they think is a threat to the president.

> What odds on a friendly-fire incident that will be hushed up and
> uninvestigated?

Oh, pretty good, I'd say.

What gets me is that the conservative dominated media in the US will be all
over how well this trip to an "ally" went -- when the country is OBVIOUSLY
against him...
M. J. Powell - 11 Nov 2003 11:43 GMT
>> Report snipped.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>I've also read that some brit cops will be armed and authorized to shoot
>anyone they think is a threat to the president.

Old news. They already shoot people carrying chair legs.

>> What odds on a friendly-fire incident that will be hushed up and
>> uninvestigated?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>over how well this trip to an "ally" went -- when the country is OBVIOUSLY
>against him...

You are more right than you probably know.

Mike
Signature

M.J.Powell

a.spencer3 - 17 Nov 2003 16:03 GMT
> >> Report snipped.
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> You are more right than you probably know.

Just this minute confirmed/announced on Brit radio - all police leave
cancelled, 5,000 actual on-duty officers just increased to 14,000!

Surreyman
Paul J Gans - 17 Nov 2003 17:08 GMT
In alt.history.british a.spencer3 <a.spencer3@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>> >> Report snipped.
>> >>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>>
>> You are more right than you probably know.

>Just this minute confirmed/announced on Brit radio - all police leave
>cancelled, 5,000 actual on-duty officers just increased to 14,000!

The visit and the antagonism toward Bush are starting to be
reported in the US press.  Bush was quoted as saying something
to the effect that it is wonderful to be visiting a country where
people are free to say what they think.

I'd have said "visiting *another* country where people are free
to say what they think." but then the Brits don't have cabinet
ministers implying that those who disagree are "traitors".  It
is wonderful living in a free country in which government officials
feel free to say what they think.

The good side of this is that at least the President, who famously
does not read papers or hears radio or TV news, has at least been
told something of what is going on in London.

  ---- Paul J. Gans
William Black - 17 Nov 2003 18:33 GMT
> Just this minute confirmed/announced on Brit radio - all police leave
> cancelled, 5,000 actual on-duty officers just increased to 14,000!

And I'm listening to a senior police officer talking about a serious threat
of violence,  followed by what I can only call a professional nuisance
saying he hopes to bring Blair down and send Bush scurrying from the
country.

Who exactly he thinks will replace Blair is a question he wasn't asked,  but
I doubt he wants it to be Michael Howard...

--
William Black
------------------
On time, on budget, or works;
Pick any two from three
John Cartmell - 17 Nov 2003 22:22 GMT
> Who exactly he thinks will replace Blair is a question he wasn't asked,
> but I doubt he wants it to be Michael Howard...

I have the same objection to this rally that I had with the last just
before the war. It's too late and the idiots taking part don't know what
they're doing. I'm all for telling Bush that I don't like him (and I'll
also happily tell Blair to pull his socks up but I'm certainly not going to
join a protest just to give the Tories a better chance of winning the next
election.

Stupid ignorant butterflies!

And the schoolkids "We'll sacrifice a day of school in order to protest"
need to find that there can be a nasty aspect to sticking your neck out -
and in their case permanent exclusions need to be considered. Citizenship
has a price.

Signature

    John Cartmell    john@ followed by finnybank.com    FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527
        Acorn Publisher magazine & FD Games    www.finnybank.com

Drew Nicholson - 18 Nov 2003 01:17 GMT
> > Who exactly he thinks will replace Blair is a question he wasn't asked,
> > but I doubt he wants it to be Michael Howard...
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> and in their case permanent exclusions need to be considered. Citizenship
> has a price.

You would punish people for making a political statement?

Citizenship does have a price.  For some, that price is actively protesting
the actions of others.
William Black - 18 Nov 2003 07:57 GMT
> > And the schoolkids "We'll sacrifice a day of school in order to protest"
> > need to find that there can be a nasty aspect to sticking your neck out -
> > and in their case permanent exclusions need to be considered. Citizenship
> > has a price.
>
> You would punish people for making a political statement?

I don't.

But I object to me paying for an education service which the law says is
statutory (so I have to pay for it with my taxes) and it's users can flaunt
any time they feel like it for a cause I may or may not agree with.

It's like the idiot on the radio last night who said 'Take a 'sickie' and go
on the march,  nobody is going to notice'.   It's fraud.

Or are these dear children going to give me back the taxes they are about to
flush down the drain in the name of 'free speech'?

They can protest all they want on their own time.

--
William Black
------------------
On time, on budget, or works;
Pick any two from three
Drew Nicholson - 18 Nov 2003 13:57 GMT
> > You would punish people for making a political statement?
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> They can protest all they want on their own time.

History doesn't wait for school to be over.
William Black - 18 Nov 2003 17:34 GMT
> History doesn't wait for school to be over.

Without school there is no history.

--
William Black
------------------
On time, on budget, or works;
Pick any two from three
D. Spencer Hines - 18 Nov 2003 18:08 GMT
Dead Wrong....

History goes on without respect to "school"....

That's why many lagging academics are so far out of step and are
becoming more irrelevant to History every day.

Deus Vult

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor

| > History doesn't wait for school to be over.
|
| Without school there is no history.
|
| --
| William Black
Alex - 18 Nov 2003 23:37 GMT
> History goes on without respect to "school"....

That's just time passing...

Cheers, Alex
Drew Nicholson - 19 Nov 2003 04:07 GMT
> > History doesn't wait for school to be over.
>
> Without school there is no history.

I rather think you have that backwards...
LizR - 18 Nov 2003 22:47 GMT
>> > You would punish people for making a political statement?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
>History doesn't wait for school to be over.

I wish I'd said that! (No doubt I will:-)

Presumably there's a long and proud history of skipping school to further the
revolution? I know there is in France, and not just the students in '68.

Liz
Drew Nicholson - 19 Nov 2003 04:15 GMT
> >> > You would punish people for making a political statement?
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> I wish I'd said that! (No doubt I will:-)

Oh, I'm sure I'll never be quite that pithy again.  Besides, I think I
probably nicked it, unawares...

> Presumably there's a long and proud history of skipping school to further the
> revolution? I know there is in France, and not just the students in '68.

I know that I did it from time to time...
LizR - 19 Nov 2003 20:25 GMT
>> On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:57:14 GMT, "Drew Nicholson"
><anicholson16@comcast.net> wrote:

>> >History doesn't wait for school to be over.
>>
>> I wish I'd said that! (No doubt I will:-)
>
>Oh, I'm sure I'll never be quite that pithy again.  Besides, I think I
>probably nicked it, unawares...

Well, I enjoyed it:-)

>> Presumably there's a long and proud history of skipping school to further
>the
>> revolution? I know there is in France, and not just the students in '68.
>
>I know that I did it from time to time...

I did as soon as I got to Uni, but chance would have been a fine thing at school
where I was. There's not a lot of agit-prop in the Welsh Marches - not since Owain
Glyndwr:-(

Liz
Don Aitken - 18 Nov 2003 17:06 GMT
>> > And the schoolkids "We'll sacrifice a day of school in order to protest"
>> > need to find that there can be a nasty aspect to sticking your neck
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>statutory (so I have to pay for it with my taxes) and it's users can flaunt
>any time they feel like it for a cause I may or may not agree with.

Flaunt!=flout. Not that either is the correct word here.

Signature

Don Aitken

Mail to the addresses given in the headers is no longer being
read. To mail me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com".

Paul J Gans - 18 Nov 2003 21:48 GMT
In alt.history.british William Black <black_william@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> > And the schoolkids "We'll sacrifice a day of school in order to protest"
>> > need to find that there can be a nasty aspect to sticking your neck
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>>
>> You would punish people for making a political statement?

>I don't.

>But I object to me paying for an education service which the law says is
>statutory (so I have to pay for it with my taxes) and it's users can flaunt
>any time they feel like it for a cause I may or may not agree with.

>It's like the idiot on the radio last night who said 'Take a 'sickie' and go
>on the march,  nobody is going to notice'.   It's fraud.

>Or are these dear children going to give me back the taxes they are about to
>flush down the drain in the name of 'free speech'?

>They can protest all they want on th