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What Will Stop North Korea

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D. Spencer Hines - 14 Oct 2006 01:55 GMT
Once again, Charles Krauthammer hits the nail squarely on the head.

DSH
--------------------------------------------------

What Will Stop North Korea

By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, October 13, 2006

It shall be the policy of this nation to regard any nuclear missile launched
from Cuba against any nation in the Western Hemisphere as an attack by the
Soviet Union on the United States, requiring a full retaliatory response
upon the Soviet Union .

-- President John F. Kennedy,

Oct. 22, 1962

Now that's deterrence.

Kennedy was pledging that if any nuke was launched from Cuba, the United
States would not even bother with Cuba but would go directly to the source
and bring the apocalypse to Russia with a massive nuclear attack.

The remarkable thing about this kind of threat is that in 1962 it was very
credible.  Indeed, its credibility kept the peace throughout a half-century
of the Cold War.

Deterrence is what you do when there is no way to disarm your enemy. You
cannot deprive him of his weapons, but you can keep him from using them. We
long ago reached that stage with North Korea.

Everyone has tried to figure out how to disarm North Korea.  It will not
happen.  Kim Jong Il is not going to give up his nukes.  The only way to
disarm the regime is to destroy it.  China could do that with sanctions but
will not.  The United States could do that with a second Korean War but will
not either.

Bingo! -- DSH

So we are back to deterrence.  Hence the familiar echoes of the Cuban
missile crisis with North Korea's rude entry into the nuclear club this
week. The United States had to immediately put down markers for deterrence.
President Bush put down two.

Correct. -- DSH

One marker, preventing a direct attack on our allies in the region, was
straightforward, if bland: "I reaffirmed to our allies in the region,
including South Korea and Japan," the president said in a nationally
televised statement, "that the United States will meet the full range of our
deterrent and security commitments."  It is understood by all that the
decades-old American nuclear umbrella in the Pacific Rim commits us to
attacking North Korea -- presumably with in-kind nuclear retaliation -- were
it to attack our allies first.

Gruesome stuff, but run-of-the-mill in the nuclear age.  The hard part is
the second marker Bush tried to put down: proliferation deterrence.

We are in an era far more complicated than Kennedy's because his great
crisis occurred before the age of terrorism.

Bingo! -- DSH

The world of 1962 was still technologically and ideologically primitive:
Miniaturized nuclear weaponry had not yet been invented, nor had modern
international terrorism.  Yasser Arafat and the Palestine Liberation
Organization gave the world that gift half a decade later with their
perfection of the political airline hijacking.

Terrorism has since grown in popularity, ambition and menace. Its
practitioners are in the market for nuclear weapons.  North Korea has little
else to sell.

Correct!  And its People starve. -- DSH

Hence Bush's attempt to codify a second form of deterrence: "The transfer of
nuclear weapons or material by North Korea to states or non-state entities
would be considered a grave threat to the United States, and we would hold
North Korea fully accountable for the consequences of such action."

Indeed! -- DSH

A good first draft, but it could use some Kennedyesque clarity.  The phrase
"fully accountable" does not exactly instill fear, as it has been used
promiscuously by several administrations in warnings to both terrorists and
rogue states -- after which we did absolutely nothing. A better formulation
would be the following:

"Given the fact that there is no other nuclear power so recklessly in
violation of its nuclear obligations, it shall be the policy of this nation
to regard any detonation of a nuclear explosive on the United States or its
allies as an attack by North Korea on the United States requiring a full
retaliatory response upon North Korea."

That's a Good Second Draft. -- DSH

This is how you keep Kim Jong Il from proliferating.  Make him understand
that his survival would be hostage to the actions of whatever terrorist
group he sold his weapons to.  Any terrorist detonation would be assumed to
have his address on it.  The United States would then return postage.
Automaticity of this kind concentrates the mind.

And Kim Jong Il does indeed need to have his mind concentrated.  -- DSH

This policy has a hitch, however.  It works only in a world where there is
but a single rogue nuclear state.  Once that club expands to two, the policy
evaporates, because a nuclear terror attack would no longer have a single
automatic return address.

Which is another reason why keeping Iran from going nuclear is so important.
With North Korea there is no going back.  But Iran is not there yet. One
rogue country is tolerable because it can be held accountable.  Two rogue
countries guarantees undeterrable and therefore inevitable nuclear
terrorism.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If Mahmoud Ahmadinejad gets nuclear weapons and continues to talk and act as
irresponsibly as does Kim Jong Il we should promise to return postage to
BOTH North Korea and Iran.  TWO automatic return addresses. --  DSH

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Veritas Vos Liberabit
ray o'hara - 14 Oct 2006 03:08 GMT
> Once again, Charles Krauthammer hits the nail squarely on the head.
>
> DSH
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> What Will Stop North Korea

cuba got its nukes from russia. NK is a different case.
krauthammer bashes liberals. but he uses the handicap ramps liberals had
built and conservatives oppsed.
like all you repugnazies are hypocrits.
dapra - 14 Oct 2006 03:48 GMT
> Once again, Charles Krauthammer hits the nail squarely on the head.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> By Charles Krauthammer
> Friday, October 13, 2006

Krauthammer is clue less or disingenuous. The US would have to invent NK
if it not existed. How else could be spent a trillion on Son of Star Wars?

> It shall be the policy of this nation to regard any nuclear missile launched
> from Cuba against any nation in the Western Hemisphere as an attack by the
[quoted text clipped - 113 lines]
>
> Veritas Vos Liberabit
Kurt Ullman - 14 Oct 2006 05:22 GMT
> > Once again, Charles Krauthammer hits the nail squarely on the head.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Krauthammer is clue less or disingenuous. The US would have to invent NK
> if it not existed. How else could be spent a trillion on Son of Star Wars?

  Damn dapra, pay attention to the memos will ya? Nancy Pellosi has
been saying for the last few weeks that the Dems have supported Star
Wars all along. Do try to keep up.
dapra - 14 Oct 2006 05:55 GMT
>>>Once again, Charles Krauthammer hits the nail squarely on the head.
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> been saying for the last few weeks that the Dems have supported Star
> Wars all along. Do try to keep up.

So  what? Clinton sold the middle class 'down the river' (NAFTA). Both
parties rape the American people. The Republicans are just more shameless.
La N - 14 Oct 2006 05:58 GMT
>>>>Once again, Charles Krauthammer hits the nail squarely on the head.
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> So  what? Clinton sold the middle class 'down the river' (NAFTA). Both
> parties rape the American people. The Republicans are just more shameless.

Lou Dobbs of CNN is someone of interest to watch and read.  I believe him
when he says that he speaks for the unheeded middle class majority of
America.  He says that neither the Dems or Repubs speak for the middle class
in that both Parties pander to corporate interests.  He says that he used to
be a Republican.  Now he is registered as an independent.

- nilita
redc1c4 - 14 Oct 2006 06:14 GMT
> >>>>Once again, Charles Krauthammer hits the nail squarely on the head.
> >>>>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> - nilita

Lou Dobbs is another MSM hack and *he* isn't to be trusted anymore
than a politician.

redc1c4,
(he should have stayed on PBS.... %-)
Signature

"Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear
considerable watching."

Army Officer's Guide

ray o'hara - 14 Oct 2006 06:32 GMT
> > Lou Dobbs of CNN is someone of interest to watch and read.  I believe him
> > when he says that he speaks for the unheeded middle class majority of
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Lou Dobbs is another MSM hack and *he* isn't to be trusted anymore
> than a politician.

look dobbs talks economics and he can back up what he says with facts. not
lies and inuendo like your heros rush and matt drudge.
La N - 14 Oct 2006 13:43 GMT
>> > Lou Dobbs of CNN is someone of interest to watch and read.  I believe
> him
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> look dobbs talks economics and he can back up what he says with facts. not
> lies and inuendo like your heros rush and matt drudge.

Indeed.  Furthermore, Dobbs has never worked for PBS, as red has implied.

Mind you, red hates most people and is a Bush fan.  So that sez it all rilly
....

- nilita
ray o'hara - 14 Oct 2006 16:42 GMT
> >> > Lou Dobbs of CNN is someone of interest to watch and read.  I believe
> > him
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Mind you, red hates most people and is a Bush fan.  So that sez it all rilly
> ....

yup
red is a noted net-loon on several different groups.
La N - 14 Oct 2006 16:56 GMT
>> >> > Lou Dobbs of CNN is someone of interest to watch and read.  I
>> >> > believe
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> yup
> red is a noted net-loon on several different groups.

A great BBQ chef and zin connoisseur notwithstanding .....

- nilita
redc1c4 - 14 Oct 2006 16:52 GMT
> >> > Lou Dobbs of CNN is someone of interest to watch and read.  I believe
> > him
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> - nilita

mind you, my dad used to watch him on KCET-28 here in Lost Angeles,
which was evidently a licensed version of his CNN show.  he should
have stuck to economics and stayed out of politics.

i don't care for Rush or Drudge and my opinion on people is based on
having to interact with them. As for Bush, i disagree with many things
he's done, but we're better off with him than we would have been
with the other choices presented at the time.

redc1c4,
in all matters of opinion, my enemies are insane. %-)
Signature

"Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear
considerable watching."

Army Officer's Guide

La N - 14 Oct 2006 17:04 GMT
>  As for Bush, i disagree with many things
> he's done, but we're better off with him than we would have been
> with the other choices presented at the time.

Somehow my mind can't wrap around that concept.  How would things be "worse
off" than they are now?

- nilita, obviously not as good at psychic abilities as red .....
jacklinthicum@earthlink.net - 14 Oct 2006 19:05 GMT
> >  As for Bush, i disagree with many things
> > he's done, but we're better off with him than we would have been
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> - nilita, obviously not as good at psychic abilities as red .....

(October 14, 2006 -- 12:35 PM EDT)

Why do commentators continue to describe the President as a
"hard-liner" on North Korea? That seems to  be a disservice to the
hardliners and to give the President far too much credit.

Just yesterday in the Wall Street Journal, no less a Bush critic than
Col. Lawrence Wilkerson, who served as Colin Powell's chief of staff at
the State Department, asserted that Bush's hardline on North Korea has
failed.

There are genuine hardliners within the Administration who urged covert
and overt military action against North Korea early on the President's
first term, and certainly in response to the breakdown of the Agreed
Framework. Every Republican Administration is going to have its share
of Curtis LeMays.

But those true hardliners have not prevailed in the internal
Administration struggle over whether the U.S. should lead with the
carrot or with the stick. What has emerged as U.S. "policy" is inertia.
No carrot. No stick. No nothing, unless cheap rhetoric about what is
"unacceptable" counts for something.

There are quite reputable people in foreign policy circles, like former
Defense Secretary William Perry, who have advocated much tougher
measures against North Korea than Bush has adopted. Perry, for
instance, proposed publicly earlier this year that the U.S. hit the
DPRK's new ICBM with a U.S. cruise missle while it was still on the
launch pad, before a test flight could be conducted.

The sad truth is that we have virtually no good options for putting the
North Korean nuclear genie back in the bottle, and I am quite convinced
that our military options at the moment range from bad to worse (and
that the current Administration would be unable to competently execute
any military option).

But in the same way that it is a mistake to conclude that the Clinton
Administration offer of a carrot was a failure, it is a mistake to
conclude that the stick has failed, too. Both may be needed in the
future.

All that we can say with any certainty is that paralysis has failed to
achieve our objective of a non-nuclear Korean penisula. And paralysis,
if I may say, is unacceptable.

The same could be said for other areas like Iraq and the
Israel-Lebanon-Hezbollah-Syria-Iran merry go round, we are in a state
of paralysis and have wedged the entire Western world into a condition
where nothing can be done without risking grave and certain
consequences.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/010360.php
Tiglath - 15 Oct 2006 19:26 GMT
>> >  As for Bush, i disagree with many things
>> > he's done, but we're better off with him than we would have been
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> "hard-liner" on North Korea? That seems to  be a disservice to the
> hardliners and to give the President far too much credit.

Because Rice said that they don't have a plan to attack North Korea, but
since when not having a plan has stopped Bush from attacking a country?
Jack Linthicum - 15 Oct 2006 20:00 GMT
> >> >  As for Bush, i disagree with many things
> >> > he's done, but we're better off with him than we would have been
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Because Rice said that they don't have a plan to attack North Korea, but
> since when not having a plan has stopped Bush from attacking a country?

You realize that the Chinese could bring Kim down by simply closing
down the cross-border supply of food and power for a week.
William Black - 15 Oct 2006 20:22 GMT
> > >> >  As for Bush, i disagree with many things
> > >> > he's done, but we're better off with him than we would have been
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> You realize that the Chinese could bring Kim down by simply closing
> down the cross-border supply of food and power for a week.

I think they'd need a damn good reason to shut down the food supply.

Signature

William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time,  like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

Jack Linthicum - 15 Oct 2006 20:43 GMT
> > > >> >  As for Bush, i disagree with many things
> > > >> > he's done, but we're better off with him than we would have been
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> All these moments will be lost in time,  like icecream on the beach
> Time for tea.

how about an e-coli contamination?
La N - 15 Oct 2006 20:46 GMT
>> > > >> >  As for Bush, i disagree with many things
>> > > >> > he's done, but we're better off with him than we would have been
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
> how about an e-coli contamination?

Ewww ... don't say that ... I've actually had e-coli infection twice!

- nilita

PS:  Jack, check your email; I've tried sending you a note ....
jacklinthicum@earthlink.net - 15 Oct 2006 20:53 GMT
> >> > > >> >  As for Bush, i disagree with many things
> >> > > >> > he's done, but we're better off with him than we would have been
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>
> PS:  Jack, check your email; I've tried sending you a note ....

Not there but I sent one to you a "reply" from the last exchange. You
can yo-yo a reply back.
La N - 15 Oct 2006 20:58 GMT
>> >> > > >> >  As for Bush, i disagree with many things
>> >> > > >> > he's done, but we're better off with him than we would have
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
> Not there but I sent one to you a "reply" from the last exchange. You
> can yo-yo a reply back.

just did ... hope you got it ... *plus* my email .... Hopefully I managed to
get through your security ...
Dr.Goldblatt@gmail.com - 15 Oct 2006 23:32 GMT
What did tough-talk Dubya do in response to this
international outrage? In reprisal for its own
successful, outlaw nuclear weapons program, he dropped
the sanctions previously imposed on Pakistan.

While there is every reason to be alarmed by North
Korea's cultish police state, it is still best to
pursue a realpolitik pragmatism instead of the
ideological and confrontational approach Bush and his
neocons have pursued for six long years now.

The North Koreans' test also underscores that nuclear
proliferation is a growing menace to the survival of
life on this planet, and that the menace of WMD should
not have been turned into a partisan political ploy.
The recklessness of this administration's foreign
policy is marked by the trivialization of the WMD
issue, an approach epitomized by then-Secretary of
State Colin Powell's lauded (at the time) speech to
the United Nations, in which he blurred the
devastating consequence of a nuclear blast with the
dangers of a meaningless vial of white powder.

Oy Vay Zmeer!,

---Leland Milton Goldblatt, Ph.D.
Distinguished Professor
http://www.prof.faithweb.com
http://drgoldblatt.blogspot.com/

George W. Bush's huge tax cuts legalized looting, wrong about the
replacement of a $5 trillion surplus with a $3 trillion deficit.
La N - 15 Oct 2006 20:52 GMT
>> > >> >  As for Bush, i disagree with many things
>> > >> > he's done, but we're better off with him than we would have been
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>>
> I think they'd need a damn good reason to shut down the food supply.

Did I hear a CNN commentator say something to the effect that the U.S. is
going to somehow shutdown Kim's supply of wine, wimmin and song?  I think
therein lies the key!

- nilita
Andrew Swallow - 16 Oct 2006 02:00 GMT
[snip]

> Did I hear a CNN commentator say something to the effect that the U.S. is
> going to somehow shutdown Kim's supply of wine, wimmin and song?  I think
> therein lies the key!

They are shutting down the wine.  The Dear Leader can pay for his
own women and song.
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6052178.stm>
[quote]
{snip}

A ban on selling luxury goods to the North has been thrown in as a small
and probably symbolic dagger aimed at Kim Jong-il.

He is known to like the finer things in life and is now due, according
to John Bolton, the US ambassador at the UN, to go on a "diet".
[/quote]

Andrew Swallow
Tankfixer - 16 Oct 2006 02:51 GMT
In article <leqdnUh6tM4NRK_YnZ2dnUVZ8qudnZ2d@bt.com>,
am.swallow@btopenworld.com mumbled
> [snip]
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> to John Bolton, the US ambassador at the UN, to go on a "diet".
> [/quote]

Kim is also no longer welcome on the lical country club golf course
Gernot Hassenpflug - 17 Oct 2006 01:10 GMT
> [snip]
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> He is known to like the finer things in life and is now due, according
> to John Bolton, the US ambassador at the UN, to go on a "diet".

Ah, I am familiar with that one: 3 schoolgirls a night keep away age
and blight.

Signature

Gernot Hassenpflug (gernot@rish.kyoto-u.ac.jp)      Tel: +81 774 38-3866
JSPS Fellow (Rm.403, RISH, Kyoto Uni.)              Fax: +81 774 31-8463
www.rish.kyoto-u.ac.jp/radar-group/members/gernot   Mob: +81 90 39493924

Tankfixer - 16 Oct 2006 02:51 GMT
In article <HjwYg.23036$H7.21373@edtnps82>, nilita2004NOSPAM@yahoo.com
mumbled

> >> > >> >  As for Bush, i disagree with many things
> >> > >> > he's done, but we're better off with him than we would have been
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> going to somehow shutdown Kim's supply of wine, wimmin and song?  I think
> therein lies the key!

We will cut off Kim's supply of porno video's
Gernot Hassenpflug - 17 Oct 2006 01:12 GMT
> We will cut off Kim's supply of porno video's

Imagine if the Great Leader decides that his Great Member should
become the source of income for the country, and turn his sausage to
work "supporting" his fellow citizens. Arrrrgh....
Signature

Gernot Hassenpflug (gernot@rish.kyoto-u.ac.jp) Tel: +81 774 38-3866
JSPS Fellow (Rm.403, RISH, Kyoto Uni.)  Fax: +81 774 31-8463
www.rish.kyoto-u.ac.jp/radar-group/members/gernot Mob: +81 90 39493924

La N - 17 Oct 2006 01:13 GMT
>> We will cut off Kim's supply of porno video's
>
> Imagine if the Great Leader decides that his Great Member should
> become the source of income for the country, and turn his sausage to
> work "supporting" his fellow citizens. Arrrrgh....

Y'all are jes' jellus that you don't have yer own "Joy Brigade" ...%)

- nilita
Tankfixer - 16 Oct 2006 02:49 GMT
In article <egu1qa$5f4$1@news.freedom2surf.net>,
william.black@hotmail.co.uk mumbled

> > > >> >  As for Bush, i disagree with many things
> > > >> > he's done, but we're better off with him than we would have been
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> >
> I think they'd need a damn good reason to shut down the food supply.

Gee, you think they can think of one ?
William Black - 16 Oct 2006 09:06 GMT
> In article <egu1qa$5f4$1@news.freedom2surf.net>,
> william.black@hotmail.co.uk mumbled
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> Gee, you think they can think of one ?

To be honest,  no.

Well, not one that will stick...

Signature

William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time,  like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

Tankfixer - 17 Oct 2006 04:29 GMT
In article <egvehp$v55$1@news.freedom2surf.net>,
william.black@hotmail.co.uk mumbled

> > In article <egu1qa$5f4$1@news.freedom2surf.net>,
> > william.black@hotmail.co.uk mumbled
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
> Well, not one that will stick...

WALMART buyers cancel a few trips to the factories to look at next
summers line of junk...
God's Creator! (TEXT & HTML) - 17 Oct 2006 19:02 GMT
> WALMART buyers cancel a few trips to the factories to look at next
> summers line of junk...  http://www.wal-martchina.com/english/walmart/index.htm
>  

Thus Spake:  *G* *O* *D* *S*   *C* *R* *E* *A* *T* *O* *R*

You are being consistently  misinformed. :-)

North Korea & China fought together against U.S./UN  attempts to  
establish a
U.S. presence on the Korean peninsula.  June 25, 1950 to July 27, 1953.
   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War#The_Chinese_entry_.28October.2C_1950.29

You must  have caught   Bush's   (Ignore-The Facts-Stay-The Course) ...
regardless!  :-D

China's  WALMART'S  market  will be larger than  its  U.S. market,
which  is no little thing...  (The largest on Earth).
 ---> http://www.wal-martchina.com/english/walmart/history.htm

    *Many other nations  inhabit the planet earth,
      it does  NOT belong exclusively to the U.S. *


God's Creator!
(I don't forgive sh.t!) 8-)

Signature

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Todays U.S. Holy Wars News:
             http://www.antiwar.com
                http://icasualties.org/oif/

*I AM* (TEXT & HTML) - 17 Oct 2006 19:17 GMT
> WALMART buyers cancel a few trips to the factories to look at next
> summers line of junk...  http://www.wal-martchina.com/english/walmart/index.htm
>  

Thus Spake:  *G* *O* *D* *S*   *C* *R* *E* *A* *T* *O* *R*

You are being consistently  misinformed. :-)

North Korea & China fought together against U.S./UN  attempts to  
establish a
U.S. presence on the Korean peninsula.  June 25, 1950 to July 27, 1953.
   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War#The_Chinese_entry_.28October.2C_1950.29

You must  have caught   Bush's   (Ignore-The Facts-Stay-The Course) ...
regardless!  :-D

China's  WALMART'S  market  will be larger than  its  U.S. market,
which  is no little thing...  (The largest on Earth).
 ---> http://www.wal-martchina.com/english/walmart/history.htm

    *Many other nations  inhabit the planet earth,
      it does  NOT belong exclusively to the U.S. *


God's Creator!
(I don't forgive sh.t!) 8-)

Signature

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Todays U.S. Holy Wars News:
             http://www.antiwar.com
                http://icasualties.org/oif/

Dave - 17 Oct 2006 19:03 GMT
Was it triggered by the North Korean bomb test or something more
dangerous? Could it be due to the old Hawaiian gods showing their
displeasure at one of the island's most insignificant inhabitants?
John Szalay - 17 Oct 2006 19:15 GMT
> Was it triggered by the North Korean bomb test or something more
> dangerous? Could it be due to the old Hawaiian gods showing their
> displeasure at one of the island's most insignificant inhabitants?

Pele just rolled over in her sleep.
asclero@zdnetonebox.com - 18 Oct 2006 00:50 GMT
>> Was it triggered by the North Korean bomb test or something more
>> dangerous? Could it be due to the old Hawaiian gods showing their
>> displeasure at one of the island's most insignificant inhabitants?
>
> Pele just rolled over in her sleep.

Maybe it's because she wants off-topic crossposts by Monkeyhines and
his spamhead crew to be killfiled even more thoroughly.

PLONK!
Jack Linthicum - 31 Oct 2006 20:24 GMT
> > > >> >  As for Bush, i disagree with many things
> > > >> > he's done, but we're better off with him than we would have been
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> >
> I think they'd need a damn good reason to shut down the food supply.

Do you think they found one? Just oil but the throught is there.

China cut off exports of oil to North Korea
By Joseph Kahn The New York Times

Published: October 30, 2006
BEIJING China cut off oil exports to North Korea in September, amid
heightened tensions over that country's nuclear and missile programs,
Chinese trade statistics show.

The unusual move - the figures show China sold no crude oil at all to
its neighbor in September - reduced cumulative sales for the year by
about 7 percent over the same period in 2005. China's oil exports to
Pyongyang had been averaging about 50,000 metric tons a month this
year.

In September, China exported 125,185 tons of crude for a reported value
of $62 million. All of that was exported to the United States, with
North Korea receiving nothing.

North Korea depends on China for up to 90 percent of its oil, much of
which is sold on credit or for bartered goods, according to Chinese
energy experts. Any sustained reduction could cripple its isolated and
struggling economy.

There is no clear indication that the September figures represent a
policy shift on providing vital food and fuel supplies to its neighbor
and Korean War-era ally. Pyongyang conducted a nuclear test on Oct. 9,
after the period covered by the latest customs data.

Beijing did not announce a reduction in oil exports. The figures were
released by China's customs administration. The drop in supplies to
North Korea was first reported by Reuters.

It was possible the statistics were an anomaly or that supplies were
cut because North Korea did not need more oil in September. Officials
at China National Petroleum Corp., which sells oil and manages an oil
pipeline to North Korea, declined to comment on the matter.

But several analysts said the reduction suggested that Beijing was
using crude oil as leverage to pressure North Korea to resume
negotiations over its nuclear program.

If that analysis is correct, it suggests that Beijing may seek to
punish North Korea, in ways both open and unspoken, in the aftermath of
its nuclear test.

Although China has long protected the North against outside pressure,
analysts said the nuclear test surprised and angered the Chinese
leadership.

If Beijing was already using oil to warn Pyongyang in September, its
response to the October test could be more severe, analysts said.

North Korea also buys oil from Iran, shipped by sea. Experts said the
volumes are limited, however, and that China remains the country's main
supplier.

<more>
dapra - 14 Oct 2006 06:52 GMT
>>>>>Once again, Charles Krauthammer hits the nail squarely on the head.
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> - nilita

There some sparks of lights in the mess media recently. I completely
tuned out some years ago. I could not stomach all the lies.

Corporate America must have recognized that Bush policies undermine its
interest. So Lou Dobbs, Olbremann and alike are allowed to speak.
Kurt Ullman - 14 Oct 2006 14:18 GMT
> Lou Dobbs of CNN is someone of interest to watch and read.  I believe him
> when he says that he speaks for the unheeded middle class majority of
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> - nilita

 Dobbs, unfortunately, has joined the ranks of Ann Coulter and James
Carville, by finding himself a niche and then playing to it.  He is more
and actor than activist. He says what people are now expecting him to
say to get the attention and money.
La N - 14 Oct 2006 16:19 GMT
>> Lou Dobbs of CNN is someone of interest to watch and read.  I believe him
>> when he says that he speaks for the unheeded middle class majority of
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> and actor than activist. He says what people are now expecting him to
> say to get the attention and money.

How do *you* know what his motives are?  Are you psychic?  He is extremely
passionate in his beliefs and certainly speaks for a lot of people.  And
it's not as if his ideas are so radical, unless you want to call him the
"radical" middle.

Or.  Since you seem to know thereof which he speaks.  What is it he says
that you don't agree with?

- nilita
redc1c4 - 14 Oct 2006 16:53 GMT
> > Lou Dobbs of CNN is someone of interest to watch and read.  I believe him
> > when he says that he speaks for the unheeded middle class majority of
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> and actor than activist. He says what people are now expecting him to
> say to get the attention and money.

yup, and that's why everything he says is suspect.

redc1c4,
(he's just another MSM hack.... %-)
Signature

"Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear
considerable watching."

Army Officer's Guide

La N - 14 Oct 2006 17:00 GMT
>> > Lou Dobbs of CNN is someone of interest to watch and read.  I believe
>> > him
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> redc1c4,
> (he's just another MSM hack.... %-)

Geeze, red, I would think that YOU - of all people - would certainly agree
with some of his ideas - including really securing the borders and enforcing
immigration policies  ("what part of ILLEGAL immigrants does the Congress
not understand").  I mean, I've read some of *your* rants.  You are Dobbs on
steroids on this issue.

- nilita
J Antero - 14 Oct 2006 17:12 GMT
>>> > Lou Dobbs of CNN is someone of interest to watch and read.  I believe
>>> > him
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> enforcing immigration policies  ("what part of ILLEGAL immigrants does the
> Congress not understand").

The part about finding people to harvest crops for such low wages. Nobody
understands that part if the laws were ACTUALLY enforced.

I mean, I've read some of *your* rants.  You are Dobbs on
> steroids on this issue.
>
> - nilita
J Antero - 14 Oct 2006 16:46 GMT
>> So  what? Clinton sold the middle class 'down the river' (NAFTA). Both
>> parties rape the American people. The Republicans are just more
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> - nilita

Yeah, and Dobbs, the great business reporter, also quit his job at CNN to
get into a web bubble company which had no plausible plan for making money.
Anybody with just a little investment savvy saw those net startups were
typical end of cycle "tulips".

When it failed he begged his way back to his old job. Hilarious!!

Both parties do pander to business. Its business that gives us the standard
of living we have - not cartoon characters in Washington.  Smoot Hawley
Dobbs is as clueless as the people who think he's worth listening to.
La N - 14 Oct 2006 16:55 GMT
>>> So  what? Clinton sold the middle class 'down the river' (NAFTA). Both
>>> parties rape the American people. The Republicans are just more
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> Hawley Dobbs is as clueless as the people who think he's worth listening
> to.

Well, I don't know that much about his personal life, but I can hardly see
why his views are so controversial - everything from securing the borders to
raising the minimum wage (hasn't happened in 9 years even while Congress
gives itself raises).

- nilita
God's Creator! (TEXT & HTML) - 14 Oct 2006 18:00 GMT
>>>> Once again, Charles Krauthammer hits the nail squarely on the head.
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> So  what? Clinton sold the middle class 'down the river' (NAFTA). Both
> partiesrape the American people. The Republicans are just more shameless.

Thus Spake:  *G* *O* *D* *S*   *C* *R* *E* *A* *T* *O* *R*

 :-\      :-\   :-(   :-\   ;-)    :-\      :-\   :-(   :-\   ;-)    
:-\      :-\   :-(   :-\   ;-)  

Choose your favorite type of poison pill ...

  NAFTA   (Scary!)
 -----------------
  ---> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Free_Trade_Agreement

 WTO   (Shocking!)
 ------------------
  --->  http://www.gatt.org/

Some day every individual will have the NEW & IMPROVED nukes.

God's Creator!
(I don't forgive sh.t!) 8-)

Signature

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Todays U.S. Holy Wars News:
             http://www.antiwar.com
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D. Spencer Hines - 14 Oct 2006 04:41 GMT
"The essence of foreign policy is deciding which son of a bitch to support
and which to oppose -- in 1941, Hitler or Stalin; in 1972, Brezhnev or Mao;
in 1979, Somoza or Ortega."

"One has to choose.  A blanket anti-son of a bitch policy, like a blanket
anti-ethnic cleansing policy, is soothing, satisfying and empty.  It is not
a policy at all but righteous self-delusion."

Charles Krauthammer -- March 29, 1999
 
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