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History Forum / General / British History / November 2006



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Sherman & Lee

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D. Spencer Hines - 29 Nov 2006 05:15 GMT
I'm afraid you've conflated two different quotations -- one from Sherman and
one from Robert E. Lee, at Fredericksburg.

DSH

"Ian MacLure" <ibm@svpal.org> wrote in message
news:Xns9889D4D72CFC4ibmsvpalorg@216.196.97.131...

>    War is hell. It is well it is thus else we should grow
>    too fond of it ( reportedly a remark by William Tecumseh
>    "Uncle Billy" Sherman US General who knew war all too well )
Ray O'Hara - 29 Nov 2006 05:44 GMT
> I'm afraid you've conflated two different quotations -- one from Sherman and
> one from Robert E. Lee, at Fredericksburg.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> >    too fond of it ( reportedly a remark by William Tecumseh
> >    "Uncle Billy" Sherman US General who knew war all too well )

lee's puported quote.

were war not so terrible, Robert E. Lee observed as he watched the slaughter
at Fredericksburg, "we should grow too fond of it." Lee's remark, uttered in
the very midst of battle's horror and chaos, may be his most quoted-and
misquoted-statement. His exact words are in some dispute, and it seems
unlikely we shall ever be able to be certain of precisely what he said to
James Longstreet on December 13, 1862. But in every rendition of the
quotation, the contradiction between war's attraction and its horror remains
at the heart. War is terrible and yet we love it; we need to witness the
worst of its destruction

sherman is reported to have said
Eyewitness, Dr. Charles O. Brown, said that , 'the reason the reporters
missed the famous statement, and later denied that it had been made, was
that the reporters rushed away as soon as Sherman started reading his long,
technical speech. But before he sat down, the General suddenly said, 'Cadets
of the graduating class' - the students arose and saluted - and then changed
it to 'Boys,' making this statement: 'I've been where you are now and I know
just how you feel. It's entirely natural that there should beat in the
breast of every one of you a hope and desire that some day you can use the
skill you have acquired here.

'Suppress it! You don't know the horrible aspects of war. I've been through
two wars and I know. I've seen cities and homes in ashes. I've seen
thousands of men lying on the ground, their dead faces looking up at the
skies. I tell you, war is hell!' The reporters had missed the biggest story
of the day. Brown, seated alongside Sherman, wrote down the speech
verbatim." The Enquirer and News (Battle Creek) 18 November, 1933.
BernardZ - 29 Nov 2006 08:39 GMT
> > I'm afraid you've conflated two different quotations -- one from Sherman
> and
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> of the day. Brown, seated alongside Sherman, wrote down the speech
> verbatim." The Enquirer and News (Battle Creek) 18 November, 1933.

Death. Destruction. Disease. Horror. That's what war is all about.
That's what makes it a thing to be avoided.
... Kirk, "A Taste of Armageddon," stardate 3193.0..

There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is
nothing good in war. Except its ending.
... Abraham Lincoln, "The Savage Curtain," stardate 5906.5..

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Making a website is not so easy but filling it up with suitable material
is extremely difficult.

Observations of Bernard - No 107

Martin - 29 Nov 2006 18:34 GMT
> > > I'm afraid you've conflated two different quotations -- one from Sherman
> > and
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
> nothing good in war. Except its ending.
> ... Abraham Lincoln, "The Savage Curtain," stardate 5906.5..

Go back a lot further and you'll find Sun Tzu, who said "the best way to win a
war is to never fight it in the first place".

Wellington (in tears after Waterloo - not a notably emotional fellow)
effectively said that the saddest thing next to a battle lost was a battle won,
and he should have known.

Those who glory in slaughter, wave flags and openly approve of battle are almost
always those who have never had to fight, never fired a shot in anger, or never
seen the results with their own eyes. And won't have to fight the wars they are
so keen to start or prosecute.

Those who have been in action usually talk about it with great reluctance, never
mention it to impress anyone, and often suffer nightmares for years. They also
advise anyone against getting involved unless they have to.

Then there are those who have never been in battle, taken part in a war, or put
their lives on the line in military combat - and are very thankful of that,
having studied the subject and appreciated the horror of it.

Hines falls into the first category of course, and I into the third, though I
have to admit I have on occasion slipped into the first for idealogical reasons
now and then. I realise that is is the very last resort even so.
                  Cheers
                           Martin
Ray O'Hara - 29 Nov 2006 19:21 GMT
> Go back a lot further and you'll find Sun Tzu, who said "the best way to win a
> war is to never fight it in the first place".

sun tzu states lots of saying but no practiocal info.

> Wellington (in tears after Waterloo - not a notably emotional fellow)
> effectively said that the saddest thing next to a battle lost was a battle won,
> and he should have known.

i've read several bios of the iron duke, nione ention tear.

> Those who glory in slaughter, wave flags and openly approve of battle are almost
> always those who have never had to fight, never fired a shot in anger, or never
> seen the results with their own eyes. And won't have to fight the wars they are
> so keen to start or prosecute.

if only that were true.
patton was the most honest warrior.
William Black - 29 Nov 2006 19:42 GMT
>> Go back a lot further and you'll find Sun Tzu, who said "the best way to
> win a
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> i've read several bios of the iron duke, nione ention tear.

Keegan's "Mask of Command" comments on it at great length.

Signature

William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time,  like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

Martin - 29 Nov 2006 19:51 GMT
> > Go back a lot further and you'll find Sun Tzu, who said "the best way to
> win a
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> if only that were true.
> patton was the most honest warrior.

Patton believed in reincarnation though, did he not?

I did qualify that with 'almost always' - there are exceptions.
Eric Stevens - 29 Nov 2006 20:16 GMT
>> Go back a lot further and you'll find Sun Tzu, who said "the best way to
>win a
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>i've read several bios of the iron duke, nione ention tear.

It must be somewhere. Georgette Heyer picked it up in her carefully
researched story built around the battle.

>> Those who glory in slaughter, wave flags and openly approve of battle are
>almost
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>if only that were true.
>patton was the most honest warrior.

Eric Stevens
 
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