Gordon Brown -- New British Prime Minister To Be?
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D. Spencer Hines - 15 May 2007 21:39 GMT Gordon Brown is BLIND in his LEFT EYE.
I mean it.
A Good Sign...
Nothing to do with the Battle of Hastings.
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas -----------------------------------------------------------
"Peter Jason" <pj@jostle.com> wrote in message news:f2bhcr$7hn$1@otis.netspace.net.au...
>I saw Mr Brown on TV recently making a speech about the succession. > > It was the usual bollocks about God-knows-what. > > But, I noticed he was using the same hand mannerisms as Mr Blair, > especially the one where the two outstretched hands (with barely opposed > thumbs), palms towards the body and fingertips touching, and the assembly > being moved up and down, to emphasise the usual "bollocks about God knows > what". > > Another 10 years with a Blair clone? O England, how the mighty are > fallen! Paul C - 15 May 2007 21:51 GMT >Gordon Brown is BLIND in his LEFT EYE. > >I mean it. Hines next revelation:
The Pope is a CATHOLIC!
The Highlander - 15 May 2007 22:12 GMT >>Gordon Brown is BLIND in his LEFT EYE. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >The Pope is a CATHOLIC! LOL!!!
Stop it! You're killing me!
Adam Whyte-Settlar - 16 May 2007 03:17 GMT >>Gordon Brown is BLIND in his LEFT EYE. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > The Pope is a CATHOLIC! Well at least he finally got something right after all these years. He could have said 'Brown ***** in the woods'
William Black - 16 May 2007 08:43 GMT >>>Gordon Brown is BLIND in his LEFT EYE. >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Well at least he finally got something right after all these years. > He could have said 'Brown ***** in the woods' What's interesting is that he thinks it's important.
It shows what is to me a depressing feature of US politics.
They're far too interested in the personality and lifestyle of their politicians and not interested at all in the policies.
For example, Reagan was married to a divorcee. It was a major issue before he was elected.
Thatcher was also married to a divorcee. Few people in the UK knew and nobody cared.
 Signature William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea.
deemsbill@aol.com - 16 May 2007 11:16 GMT On May 16, 3:43 am, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>Gordon Brown is BLIND in his LEFT EYE. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > They're far too interested in the personality and lifestyle of their > politicians and not interested at all in the policies. The first part is correct, the second is not. The main problem is figuring out what the policies really are. The old saying that a politician takes care of those who put him in office is true...the problem is finding out who actually put him in office.
> For example, Reagan was married to a divorcee. It was a major issue before > he was elected. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Paul J Gans - 16 May 2007 17:44 GMT Newsgroup list trimmed so that Hines will have to add them all back in again manually.
In soc.history.medieval William Black <william.black@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>Gordon Brown is BLIND in his LEFT EYE. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> Well at least he finally got something right after all these years. >> He could have said 'Brown ***** in the woods'
>What's interesting is that he thinks it's important.
>It shows what is to me a depressing feature of US politics. It is perhaps more a depressing feature of his personality.
>They're far too interested in the personality and lifestyle of their >politicians and not interested at all in the policies.
>For example, Reagan was married to a divorcee. It was a major issue before >he was elected. Not really. One might have thought that the Republican base cared about it, but they didn't. And Democrats in general don't give a damn about that sort of thing.
>Thatcher was also married to a divorcee. Few people in the UK knew and >nobody cared. One major aim of US elections is the obfuscation of a candidates' actual stand on issues. The reason is the feeling that being clear on issues will only alienate some who might otherwise vote for you.
What is forgotten is that the more than 50% who typically don't vote in the US might well vote if they knew what the candidate *really* intended.
 Signature --- Paul J. Gans
D. Spencer Hines - 16 May 2007 17:55 GMT Keep in mind, Gordon Brown is blind in his LEFT eye -- NOT his RIGHT eye...[alleged Rugby Accident]....
A Good Omen.
Of note, Theodore Roosevelt was ALSO blind in his LEFT eye, from 1905 -- as President.
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Deus Vult
D. Spencer Hines - 16 May 2007 17:57 GMT Keep in mind, Gordon Brown is blind in his LEFT eye -- NOT his RIGHT eye...[alleged Rugby Accident]....
A Good Omen.
Of note, Theodore Roosevelt was ALSO blind in his LEFT eye, from 1905 -- as President.
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Deus Vult
news.cable.ntlworld.com - 16 May 2007 20:22 GMT > Keep in mind, Gordon Brown is blind in his LEFT eye -- NOT his RIGHT > eye...[alleged Rugby Accident].... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Of note, Theodore Roosevelt was ALSO blind in his LEFT eye, from 1905 -- as > President. One can still be blind with perfect 20:20 vision of course.
Peter Jason - 16 May 2007 22:46 GMT > One can still be blind with perfect 20:20 > vision of course. Yes, well perhaps he performed some hideous and degenerate practice while a teenager. Perhaps he has hair on one of his palms too.
D. Spencer Hines - 16 May 2007 18:10 GMT Nonsense!
Errant Twaddle from Wee Willie Black.
Ronald Reagan was ALSO a divorced man HIMSELF. His first wife was Jane Wyman.
It was not an issue at all in the Campaign of 1980.
Wee Willie is smoking bad grass again and indulging in his standard childish "Americans Are Ignorant & Stupid" Brit Rhetoric.
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas ----------------------------------------
>>For example, Reagan was married to a divorcee. It was a major issue >>before he was elected. Les Cargill - 17 May 2007 01:33 GMT > Nonsense! > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Wee Willie is smoking bad grass again and indulging in his standard childish > "Americans Are Ignorant & Stupid" Brit Rhetoric. As an American, he's largely right. En masse we certainly are. We do some things well, others not so well.
> DSH > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>>For example, Reagan was married to a divorcee. It was a major issue >>>before he was elected. -- Les Cargill
Peter Jason - 16 May 2007 22:47 GMT > Newsgroup list trimmed so that Hines will > have to add them [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >>>> >>>> The Pope is a CATHOLIC! Gee, next we'll be told there's PORN on the internet...!!!
Renia - 16 May 2007 23:26 GMT >>Newsgroup list trimmed so that Hines will >>have to add them [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Gee, next we'll be told there's PORN on the > internet...!!! Internet? What's that?
Peter Jason - 17 May 2007 04:48 GMT >>>Newsgroup list trimmed so that Hines will >>>have to add them [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Internet? What's that? Computerized telephones with no improvement in content.
In the good old days we had secret printing presses cranking out seditious farrago in dank deep cellars, presided over by cretinous midgets and/or disgruntled employees or communists.
Now it's all delivered into our homes free of charge.
It is a marketeer's heaven catered for by that anti-christ "gOOGLE" and similar snake-oil salespersons. I offer as proof the lack of a switch to turn off marketing during a gOOGLE search.
Stay away!
Molesworth - 18 May 2007 03:00 GMT > Computerized telephones with no improvement > in content. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Stay away! Go Scroogle.org - you know it makes sense!
Peter Jason - 18 May 2007 06:09 GMT > In article > <f2gjbk$28sf$1@otis.netspace.net.au>, [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Go Scroogle.org - you know it makes sense! Thanks, it looks good though it doesn't have the "advanced search". Is that patented?
Renia - 16 May 2007 23:25 GMT > Newsgroup list trimmed so that Hines will have to add them > all back in again manually. Paul, I think I love you! :-)
Les Cargill - 17 May 2007 01:32 GMT >>>>Gordon Brown is BLIND in his LEFT EYE. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > They're far too interested in the personality and lifestyle of their > politicians and not interested at all in the policies. That is dead-bang, 100% pure truth right there. I was once told by an Englishman "you Yanks just don't do politics at all."
> For example, Reagan was married to a divorcee. It was a major issue before > he was elected. > > Thatcher was also married to a divorcee. Few people in the UK knew and > nobody cared. The scope of American politics dictates that the message must be dumbed down to be understood. The sheer size of the thing - it's like the difference between an acoustic guitar in a coffeeshop - full of nuance and detail - and a screaming amplifier in a basketball arena.
-- Les Cargill
Robert Peffers. - 17 May 2007 09:12 GMT >>>>>Gordon Brown is BLIND in his LEFT EYE. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > -- > Les Cargill Brown is heading for a hiding against nothing and Tony is jumping ship before the proverbial hits the air mover. Take just a couple of very plain little facts. Brown has publicly stated that he will not work with Alex Salmond but as the UK PM he has no choice and, remember that his constituency is right here in Scotland, he must not upset his voters for he must first be an MP before he can be PM. If he upsets the Scots voters, (and these have voted for an SNP Executive), by negating their wishes he could find himself going the same way as the Scottish Tories and the Scottish NuLabour Holyrood faction.
Now take a look at what is going on in the background right now. The government has announced today that they will close 2,500 Post Offices as being uneconomic. Who, though, made them uneconomic - NuLabour of course. Who took away the payment of pensions and benefits from the PO - NuLabour. Who took away the TV licence payments from the PO - NuLabour. Who is taking away the DVLC business from the PO - NuLabour. The list is long but it is all down to the government doing all they can to rip the heart out of rural areas by removing one of the main important resources from many villages.
Who was the main man behind all those changes - Gordon Brown.
He could find himself rather unpopular in his own backyard while he is lording it as the PM in London and attempting to show England what a good little Briton he is.
 Signature
Robert Peffers, Kelty, Fife, Scotland, (UK).
William Black - 17 May 2007 09:34 GMT > Brown is heading for a hiding against nothing and Tony is jumping ship > before the proverbial hits the air mover. Well no.
Blair is going exactly when he said he'd go.
> Take just a couple of very plain little facts. > Brown has publicly stated that he will not work with Alex Salmond but as [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > going the same way as the Scottish Tories and the Scottish NuLabour > Holyrood faction. In a moment you'll tell me which incumbent Prime Minister has ever lost their seat in a general election.
If you honestly think that Brown has a chance of losing his Westminster seat then I have a bridge for sale...
Salmond has done a deal. He has opted for a minority government and so no chance of a referendum on Scottish independence this session.
Indeed, if he doesn't do something pretty quickly in improving the lot of the people of Scotland he'll be exploded.
> Now take a look at what is going on in the background right now. > The government has announced today that they will close 2,500 Post Offices > as being uneconomic. 3,000.
Please try to keep up.
Who, though, made them uneconomic - NuLabour of course.
> Who took away the payment of pensions and benefits from the PO - NuLabour. > Who took away the TV licence payments from the PO - NuLabour. > Who is taking away the DVLC business from the PO - NuLabour. Well no.
All these services have been available from the banks by BCS for decades.
Well, except the DVLC tax stuff.
Which Post Offices that issue Road Tax disks are closing?
My understanding is that none are, it's just the teeny tiny ones and they don't do tax disks...
> The list is long but it is all down to the government doing all they can > to rip the heart out of rural areas by removing one of the main important > resources from many villages. The fees for a village Post Office are about £3,000 a year.
That's not a huge amount of money. If the people can't scrape together another £3,000 worth of business in the space left by the removal of the PO counter then the village probably doesn't deserve a shop.
 Signature William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea.
a.spencer3 - 17 May 2007 09:46 GMT > > Brown is heading for a hiding against nothing and Tony is jumping ship > > before the proverbial hits the air mover. [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > -- > William Black Under this socialist (?) government, the main central post office in Woking, Surrey (population 100,000) is under threat to be privatised and diminished into a nearby WHS.
Out-Thatchering and out-Beechering still rules.
Surreyman
Dave - 17 May 2007 12:43 GMT >Under this socialist (?) government, the main central post office in Woking, >Surrey (population 100,000) is under threat to be privatised and diminished [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Surreyman Same in Cheltenham. The queues in both are currently horrendous. God knows what it will be like when they are combined. I can hardly wait for Christmas.
D. Spencer Hines - 17 May 2007 17:11 GMT Hilarious!
You Brits vote for a Socialist Government and you get a former Chancellor of the Exchequer, read beancounter, who is a crypto-Thatcherite capitalist.
Reality Bites...
Victoria, it just doesn't get any better than this.
Enjoy!
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas Britannicus Traductus Sum --------------------------------------------------
> Under this socialist (?) government, the main central post office in > Woking, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Surreyman Renia - 17 May 2007 09:57 GMT > "Robert Peffers." <peffers@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>>The list is long but it is all down to the government doing all they can >>to rip the heart out of rural areas by removing one of the main important [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > another £3,000 worth of business in the space left by the removal of the PO > counter then the village probably doesn't deserve a shop. Nothing to do with a village "deserving" a shop. Villages NEED a shop. Not everyone has access to a car and not every village has a convenient bus service. You have been talking a lot about disabled access. For some, the elderly, the infirm, the blind, a village shop is a far more convenient place to buy bits and pieces, post their letters or fetch their pensions, than to haul themselves on a bus, taxi or the daughter-in-law's car. The village shop also acts as a kind of community centre and gossip-parlour, a place where isolated people can meet up with others in the same boat. It's also a kind of neighbourhood watch place, where anything odd will be gossiped about. I would go so far as to suggest that such shops, if their income is too low, should be financially supported by the state.
William Black - 17 May 2007 11:24 GMT >> "Robert Peffers." <peffers@btinternet.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > gossiped about. I would go so far as to suggest that such shops, if their > income is too low, should be financially supported by the state. That's an interesting one.
Village life is increasingly seen as a luxury in the UK and homes in the countryside are expensive.
There are less and less agricultural workers and more and more people either using the village as a dormitory or a place for a holiday home or are telecommuters working from home.
However these monied incomers pose a problem. They're almost invariably urban car owners who shop and do their business in the cites (for US readers: It's hard to get more than 40 or 50 miles from a reasonably large city in the UK, in US terms we all live in the suburbs) They don't use the local village facilities and so these tend to die unless the place is well away from anywhere much.
They also makes it impossible for local young couples to buy a house in the village as the prices are too high.
This isn't just a UK problem. It also happens a lot in Italy. I know of a village in Northern Italy were the local village policeman has to commute forty kilometres a day each way because he can't afford to live in the village he is responsible for.
Now, you're suggesting that the lifestyle in these expensive exclusive villages should be subsidised by the state.
I think it's a wonderful idea.
I live in a suburb that is officially a village...
My Post Office may disappear soon.
My mother however lives in a real, rural, 'out in the middle of nowhere but gentrified' village where there's a pretty pond, a decent pub, several shops and even a cafe (and a studio pottery for goodness sake) and she has all her pensions and stuff paid directly into her bank account, so she doesn't care...
But, to be honest, it's a dead duck politically...
'Post Office access for the monied rural home owner' isn't a cry you can seriously make.
 Signature William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea.
a.spencer3 - 17 May 2007 11:35 GMT > >> "Robert Peffers." <peffers@btinternet.com> wrote in message > > [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > -- > William Black Your trends are correct, but they're only trends. I have no statististics, but I'd hazard that the average village has some 80% 'genuine' residents? It is a very real problem. But under the current government, with its dodgy accountant soon to be PM for Gawd's sake, it's quantity rather than quality all down the line, fronm the NHS onwards. Beecham started it , Thatcher continued it, but the 'socialist' Blair/Brown government is outstripping them all. 'Never make the accountant MD' applies to politics, too.
Surreyman
William Black - 17 May 2007 12:03 GMT > I have no statististics, but I'd hazard that the average village has some > 80% 'genuine' residents? Not round here.
The Leeds millionaires and their friends have been buying up North Yorkshire for holiday homes for a generation.
For the last few years the Robin Hood's Bay chip shop closed in the winter because there was not enough trade to keep it open. Less than 60 homes are occupied all year round in what is usually described as 'a small town rather than a village'.
40% of the houses in Helmsley are on 'holiday home' type insurance policies and so must be occupied less than 26 weeks a year.
Visit the village of Rosedale in the winter and see the three houses occupied...
You can see them in the village markets in the summer. The women in immaculate hand loomed tweed skirts, new looking Barbour jackets and tweed cloche hats, the men in expensive jeans, designer polo shirts and bespoke tailored linen or wool jackets, all driving large 4x4s made in Japan.
The standard of the food in the pubs and cafes is incredibly high, so are the prices...
The food shops sell game pies but not baked beans.
It's a rural country theme park.
Now, to be honest, I rather like living next to a theme park, but I can't really justify any government subsidy for people who want to live there.
 Signature William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea.
a.spencer3 - 17 May 2007 12:51 GMT > > I have no statististics, but I'd hazard that the average village has some > > 80% 'genuine' residents? [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Now, to be honest, I rather like living next to a theme park, but I can't > really justify any government subsidy for people who want to live there. Of course you can pick specific areas - I could give you scores more. But I was talking 'average'.
Surreyman
William Black - 17 May 2007 13:00 GMT >> > I have no statististics, but I'd hazard that the average village has > some [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > Of course you can pick specific areas - I could give you scores more. > But I was talking 'average'. I doubt that very much.
As you live in Surry I imagine it's much the same as here, if not more so. You're within reach of London.
Take a ride out to Box Hill and try to spot the farm worker's cottages still lived in by a farm worker...
 Signature William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea.
a.spencer3 - 18 May 2007 11:51 GMT > >> > I have no statististics, but I'd hazard that the average village has > > some [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > Take a ride out to Box Hill and try to spot the farm worker's cottages still > lived in by a farm worker... I don't need to. We have 'em in our own village.
Surreyman
D. Spencer Hines - 17 May 2007 18:03 GMT Gordon Brown -- "The Dodgy Accountant".
Hilarious!
That may stick.
Although "The Dodgy Beancounter" is better.
Who is this Beecham?
Any relation to the symphony conductor?
DSH
> Your trends are correct, but they're only trends. > I have no statististics, [sic] but I'd hazard that the average village has [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Surreyman a.spencer3 - 18 May 2007 11:51 GMT > Gordon Brown -- "The Dodgy Accountant". > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Any relation to the symphony conductor? Beecham decimated 'uneconomic' railway lines in the 1960s, (maybe a third of the UK system, I seem to remember), depriving many rural (and, indeed many town) areas of non-car access - and, thereby, starting the enormous strangulation of our road system.
Surreyman
Brian Sharrock - 18 May 2007 14:39 GMT >> Gordon Brown -- "The Dodgy Accountant". >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Beecham ...... That, of course, would be Dr _Beeching_ <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beeching>
> ...... decimated 'uneconomic' railway lines in the > 1960s, (maybe a third of > the UK system, I seem to remember), ,,,,,, Of course, Deci Mate; tenth (man) killed, was a Roman punishment for formations that had not fought to specification. Kill every tenth man- enough to put the fear of the deities into each man, but not enough to make the formation unuseable. Dr Beeching's 'Axe' reduced the many feeder lines from the network devestating valleys, ports, factorrie etc. What seemed to be 'uneconomic' was in hindsight the lifeblood of the nrework.
> ..... > depriving many rural (and, indeed many > town) areas of non-car access - and, thereby, starting the enormous > strangulation of our road system. > > Surreyman
 Signature Brian
Alistair Gunn - 18 May 2007 16:12 GMT In sci.military.naval Brian Sharrock twisted the electrons to say:
> Of course, Deci Mate; tenth (man) killed, was a Roman punishment for > formations that had not fought to specification. Kill every tenth man- > enough to put the fear of the deities into each man, but not enough to make > the formation unuseable. Said 10th man being killed by the other 9 IIRC?
> Dr Beeching's 'Axe' reduced the many feeder lines from the network > devestating valleys, ports, factorrie etc. What seemed to be > 'uneconomic' was in hindsight the lifeblood of the nrework. It varied. Some of the closures where sensible, did Whitby (for instance) really need 3 seperate railway links into it?
 Signature These opinions might not even be mine ... Let alone connected with my employer ...
Brian Sharrock - 18 May 2007 18:12 GMT snip
>> Dr Beeching's 'Axe' reduced the many feeder lines from the network >> devestating valleys, ports, factorrie etc. What seemed to be >> 'uneconomic' was in hindsight the lifeblood of the nrework. > > It varied. Some of the closures where sensible, did Whitby (for > instance) really need 3 seperate railway links into it? I dunno! But as I recall Whitby is port? Lines would terminate at a port. Where there three routes into / from this port; north South, West,? Perhaps you consider Brighton has being oversupplied with '3 separate railway links into it'? {Coast Line West; MainLine (North) and Coast Line East} - it's often the case that terminal stations on coasts have several 'separate railway links
In the locality where I currently live the main 'Southern Rail' runs more-or-less along the line of the coast. As I understand it; Beeching 'axed' a branch line that served the Port of Shoreham -there was a road bridge over a railway line switched into the port- nowadays the bridge has been razed and there's no access from the port to the railway (about fifty metres off the quays); a branch line that swept north from Shoreham serving the Adur Valley (quarry and towns of Brarmber, Steyning (it's now a cycle track) and a hugmungous railway carriage works located at Lancing - plus many factory loading bay sidings too numerous to mention. Each of these 'sidings' may have been individually uneconomic by Beeching's calculus but the aggregate tonnage must be huge.
BTW; I've travelled (as I'm sure many people have) in the middle lane of the M4 , overtaking a veritable train of lorries each with a driver maintaining 100 (governed) klicks while alongside the 'GWR' line is virtually empty. That railway should be hauling the trailers -perhaps consuming electricity from nuclear power stations?
--
Brian
The Highlander - 21 May 2007 19:54 GMT >In sci.military.naval Brian Sharrock twisted the electrons to say: >> Of course, Deci Mate; tenth (man) killed, was a Roman punishment for >> formations that had not fought to specification. Kill every tenth man- >> enough to put the fear of the deities into each man, but not enough to make >> the formation unuseable. A former Wehrmacht soldier who walked with his comrades back from Russia to Germany told me that when they found some Americans to surrender to, they were lined up and every 10th man was shot. He became so angry, with tears running down his face and his wife telling him to forget about it, that I was no doubt I was hearing the truth.
>Said 10th man being killed by the other 9 IIRC? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >It varied. Some of the closures where sensible, did Whitby (for >instance) really need 3 seperate railway links into it? Renia - 17 May 2007 12:02 GMT >>>"Robert Peffers." <peffers@btinternet.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > seriously > make. Well, do you know I wasn't actually thinking of grockels or newcomers but the real rural people, who still exist and who are marginalised. I was thinking of a number of west country villages which our kin inhabit (and have done for generations) and some of the problems those people have, particularly one-car families where the husband uses the car for work.
If, as you suggest, the better-off nouveau ex-townie villagers nip off in their ridiculous 4x4s to the towns, then it is not them who would benefit from any state aid to village post-offices. It would benefit those real villagers who do not have much vehicular access to towns and there are still many of them.
William Black - 17 May 2007 12:13 GMT > If, as you suggest, the better-off nouveau ex-townie villagers nip off in > their ridiculous 4x4s to the towns, then it is not them who would benefit > from any state aid to village post-offices. It would benefit those real > villagers who do not have much vehicular access to towns and there are > still many of them. But they're no longer a majority in such communities.
The real rural villager is disappearing fast as 'agribusiness' becomes ever more mechanised and industrialised. The village blacksmith is reduced to a maker of wrought iron gates and a shoe'er of rich kid's ponies, the village shop stocks three dozen different French cheeses, the village pub serves salads with rocket and fennel, the village bowls club is building a couple of tennis courts, the main street is littered with big cars because the people who live there get a free one from work but park the one they actually own in the drive and leave the firm's car in the street and the Parish Council is full of people who weren't born there but 'want to something for the community'.
Nobody cares about the people who've been there for generations, they no longer even have a voice.
 Signature William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea.
Renia - 17 May 2007 12:23 GMT >>If, as you suggest, the better-off nouveau ex-townie villagers nip off in >>their ridiculous 4x4s to the towns, then it is not them who would benefit [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Nobody cares about the people who've been there for generations, they no > longer even have a voice. Which is sad and more or less my point. Plus, their children can't afford to buy there so are forced into cheap bedsits in towns where they get jobs in McDonalds and Pizza Hut instead of on the farm they were brought up to run. Of course, the farm is not labour-intensive any more and has to compete with mega-farms so the farmer is slowly selling off his land to building developers and pony-club members.
This is part of what I've been saying about the Britain's nervous breakdown. The towns are full of villagers, who, released from the constraints of The Woolpack, spend their nights binge-drinking and puking on the streets while trying to keep up with their poorer townie counterparts in order to seem sophisticated. And the towns have gone all cosmopolitan, being full of foreigners who can barely speak English so the nouveaus from the towns move to the villages for a peaceful life, where they complain about village bells and cow dung on the road, which raises village prices sky-high which sends even more of the villagers to the towns. The wrong people are living in the wrong places.
William Black - 17 May 2007 12:37 GMT >>>If, as you suggest, the better-off nouveau ex-townie villagers nip off in >>>their ridiculous 4x4s to the towns, then it is not them who would benefit [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > village prices sky-high which sends even more of the villagers to the > towns. The wrong people are living in the wrong places. And yet, accepting most of what you say is the truth, I like it here.
The rural component of urban drunkenness is minor, as it must be in a society where the rural population has been less than 5% of the overall population for over a generation.
The arrival of the urban wealthy in rural areas has improved the quality of village resources to the extent that tourism is no longer restricted to people in stout but muddy boots asking if they should be removed before entering the pub and the odd bird watcher, but now has facilities suitable for the most sophisticated traveller.
Of course the incoming jobs do tend to be done by immigrants as the average rural, or indeed any British worker wouldn't be seen dead in a black T-shirt and apron serving croissants and decent coffee to someone sitting in a stainless steel chair in an architect designed Italianate cafe...
But there you go...
Of course I could say it has all happened before, what with 'Hodge and Podge', the Rural Idyll, the Arts and Crafts movement and all that.
You don't think all those huge nineteenth century cottages were built for farm workers do you?
<I imagine this conversation will produce some interesting comments from across the pond when they get out of bed in a few hours>
 Signature William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea.
Renia - 17 May 2007 12:53 GMT > You don't think all those huge nineteenth century cottages were built for > farm workers do you? Huge? What are you saying, here?
William Black - 17 May 2007 12:58 GMT >> You don't think all those huge nineteenth century cottages were built for >> farm workers do you? > > Huge? What are you saying, here? Every village I ever go in has a number of huge (three to six bedrooms) cottages. all built between a hundred and two hundred years ago.
One for the doctor, one for the vicar, one maybe for the school teacher, but that's a bit doubtful, even one for a lawyer if it's a big enough village.
Who lived in the others?
 Signature William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea.
Renia - 17 May 2007 13:30 GMT >>>You don't think all those huge nineteenth century cottages were built for >>>farm workers do you? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Who lived in the others? The area around the green and the church are the oldest part of the villages. The cottages around those areas are probably much older than you think, perhaps 17th century. Some of the cottages from this period and from later periods hide much older shells. Those cottages belonged to the major landholder in the village and were for his tenants who worked on his lands or for others who provided services, such as the blacksmith, the shoemaker, etc.
Some of the larger cottages you see are two or more cottages developed into one larger building. With a new face or exterior, you can't tell their age from the outside, although there are clues, if you know where to look.
The 19th century Victorian villas you might be thinking of, as you say, were for the Vicar, the school, the doctor, etc although some of these are also much older buildings or replaced older buildings.
William Black - 17 May 2007 13:44 GMT >> Every village I ever go in has a number of huge (three to six bedrooms) >> cottages. all built between a hundred and two hundred years ago. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > lands or for others who provided services, such as the blacksmith, the > shoemaker, etc. Not here.
The major landowners lived in bloody great big houses and the various farmers lived in their farm houses.
The villages were where the farm workforces and the various specialists lived.
> Some of the larger cottages you see are two or more cottages developed > into one larger building. With a new face or exterior, you can't tell > their age from the outside, although there are clues, if you know where to > look. Then they got converted a very long time ago.
The exteriors are undoubtedly nineteenth century.
There are no signs of blocked up windows (an almost sure sign of seventeenth century or earlier origin)or extra doors that have been covered over.
 Signature William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea.
Renia - 17 May 2007 14:15 GMT >>>Every village I ever go in has a number of huge (three to six bedrooms) >>>cottages. all built between a hundred and two hundred years ago. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > The major landowners lived in bloody great big houses and the various > farmers lived in their farm houses. That's not what I said. I didn't mention where the major landowner lived.
> The villages were where the farm workforces and the various specialists > lived. That's what I said.
>>Some of the larger cottages you see are two or more cottages developed >>into one larger building. With a new face or exterior, you can't tell >>their age from the outside, although there are clues, if you know where to >>look. > > Then they got converted a very long time ago. Indeed.
> The exteriors are undoubtedly nineteenth century. > > There are no signs of blocked up windows (an almost sure sign of seventeenth > century or earlier origin)or extra doors that have been covered over. It's quite possible that some buildings have been completely re-faced, that is, a false frontage (or entire skin) built on them.
Whether these are re-faced or rebuilt smaller houses, what is the point you are trying to make with regard to Victorian England?
William Black - 17 May 2007 14:19 GMT > Whether these are re-faced or rebuilt smaller houses, what is the point > you are trying to make with regard to Victorian England? That more people lived in large houses in villages than the local economy provided for.
 Signature William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea.
Renia - 17 May 2007 14:58 GMT >>Whether these are re-faced or rebuilt smaller houses, what is the point >>you are trying to make with regard to Victorian England? > > That more people lived in large houses in villages than the local economy > provided for. Well, you could always check the census records to see how many families lived in these larger village houses.
As to the local economy, I'm still not sure what point you are trying to make. People lived far more frugally then. No electricity bills, phones, supermarkets. Their needs were far more basic. Most of the people worked on the land, the well-appointed agricultural labourers. But what period are you talking about?
William Black - 17 May 2007 16:06 GMT >>>Whether these are re-faced or rebuilt smaller houses, what is the point >>>you are trying to make with regard to Victorian England? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > on the land, the well-appointed agricultural labourers. But what period > are you talking about? The point I'm trying to make is that there have been a succession of waves of well heeled people fleeing the towns and cities and trying to return to some sort of idealised countryside for the past two hundred years (well, slightly more, Hodge and Podge is late eighteenth century)
All we're seeing now is a much bigger group of well heeled people.
Jonathan Meades' programme last night on BBC 2 made the point that these people are as much interlopers in the new revitalised industrial city centre, where they now turn up as well but without the fancy dress, as they ever were in the countryside.
The monied middle classes seem to periodically want to escape the suburbs.
It has happened before, and the big cottages are a sign of that. The countryside, despite people's idealisation of it, is not, and has never been, some sort of idealised rural heartland inhabited by ruddy faced middle-aged rustics leaning on fences and saying 'oh arr'.
 Signature William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea.
Renia - 17 May 2007 16:29 GMT >>>>Whether these are re-faced or rebuilt smaller houses, what is the point >>>>you are trying to make with regard to Victorian England? [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > been, some sort of idealised rural heartland inhabited by ruddy faced > middle-aged rustics leaning on fences and saying 'oh arr'. Until the industrial age, the English countryside was one big manufacturing zone. By this I mean that the vast majority of employment was in the countryside, in farming and the supporting industries. The statistics show (I've done such demogrphic research myself) a huge flow from the towns to the country between about 1840-1980 after which, there has been a bit of a reversal. That is not to say there were not the odd nouveau Victorian families who did not balk at a house in the country as a retreat from town living, but they were not a majority. And even they may well have had small landed interests in some of the villages.
No one who knows the countryside, historically or practically, except perhaps you on behalf of modern townies, has thought it was some sort of idealised rural heartland, etc.
D. Spencer Hines - 17 May 2007 23:20 GMT Blame it on Wordsworth, Cobbett and others.
DSH --------------------------------------
> The point I'm trying to make is that there have been a succession of waves > of well heeled people fleeing the towns and cities and trying to return to [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > been, some sort of idealised rural heartland inhabited by ruddy faced > middle-aged rustics leaning on fences and saying 'oh arr'. William Black - 18 May 2007 08:43 GMT > Blame it on Wordsworth, Cobbett and others. It's always nice when this particular idiot tries to actually talk about history.
There was a wave or two before them.
I even mentioned them...
 Signature William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea.
M. J. Powell - 17 May 2007 17:38 GMT >>> You don't think all those huge nineteenth century cottages were built for >>> farm workers do you? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >but that's a bit doubtful, even one for a lawyer if it's a big enough >village. Any settlement that has a doctor, still less his surgery, is not a village.
Mike
 Signature M.J.Powell
William Black - 17 May 2007 19:55 GMT >>>> You don't think all those huge nineteenth century cottages were built >>>> for [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Any settlement that has a doctor, still less his surgery, is not a > village. So how would you describe a settlement of 400 dwellings with a doctor and a vicar?
Bigger than a hamlet, one church, one pub, no market, a couple of shops.
Don't forget that we're talking about Victorian England.
Very few villages these days have a doctor because most doctors are in group practices.
 Signature William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea.
Robert Peffers. - 17 May 2007 23:14 GMT >>>> You don't think all those huge nineteenth century cottages were built >>>> for [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Mike Absolute rubbish. I have lived in or near several villages in my lifetime and every one of them had at least one GP. Who the hell do you think saw to the health of the many farms dotted all around the country villages. Then there were the mining and mill villages. I was born in a tiny hamlet. It had eight ploughman's cottages Two large farm houses and the large house belonging to a garage business that relied upon passing trade on one of the then main Edinburgh/Glasgow roads. Mind you there were no GPs, priests or ministers who lived there.
 Signature
Robert Peffers, Kelty, Fife, Scotland, (UK).
M. J. Powell - 18 May 2007 20:02 GMT >>>>> You don't think all those huge nineteenth century cottages were built >>>>> for [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >then main Edinburgh/Glasgow roads. Mind you there were no GPs, priests or >ministers who lived there. We appear to have different ideas on what constitutes a village.
Mike
 Signature M.J.Powell
Robert Peffers. - 19 May 2007 20:10 GMT >>>>>> You don't think all those huge nineteenth century cottages were built >>>>>> for [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Mike Aye! Like the woman who thought my late wife was the farmer's wife just because she thought that was what a farmer's wife should look like. Believe me, as one who has spent most of his 70 odd years living in villages and hamlets, villages exist to service the surrounding farms, crofts, small holdings, country mansions and local trades-people like butchers, bakers and general merchants or they were for housing the workers for some specific business like a mine, quarry, sawmill or slaughter-house.
 Signature
Robert Peffers, Kelty, Fife, Scotland, (UK).
Vince - 19 May 2007 21:15 GMT >>>>>>> You don't think all those huge nineteenth century >>>>>>> cottages were built for farm workers do you? [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > were for housing the workers for some specific business like a mine, > quarry, sawmill or slaughter-house. These are our next door neighbors, very posh
Created in 1890, Chevy Chase Village became a special taxing area in 1914 and an incorporated municipality in 1951. It is located in the southwestern portion of Montgomery County, Maryland, and covers less than one-half square mile. The Village has an appointed Village Manager and its own Police Department.
http://www.ccvillage.org/index.cfm
I don't even know anyone who can afford to live there, but I did serve on the Fire board since we share a fire department.
Houses run upwards of $2,000.000 each
Vince
M. J. Powell - 20 May 2007 14:14 GMT >>>>>>>> You don't think all those huge nineteenth century cottages >>>>>>>>built for farm workers do you? [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > >Houses run upwards of $2,000.000 each Hehe! The local Fire Brigade has trouble finding us!
We have a few £700,000 houses but they don't mix.
Mike
 Signature M.J.Powell
M. J. Powell - 20 May 2007 14:11 GMT >>>>>>> You don't think all those huge nineteenth century cottages were built >>>>>>> for [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >general merchants or they were for housing the workers for some specific >business like a mine, quarry, sawmill or slaughter-house. Well, they used to.
Mike
 Signature M.J.Powell
Robert Peffers. - 21 May 2007 09:25 GMT >>>>>>>> You don't think all those huge nineteenth century cottages were >>>>>>>> built [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > Mike Indeed, but they still all service the surrounding areas.
 Signature
Robert Peffers, Kelty, Fife, Scotland, (UK).
M. J. Powell - 21 May 2007 22:26 GMT >>>>>>>>> You don't think all those huge nineteenth century cottages were >>>>>>>>> built [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] >> M.J.Powell >Indeed, but they still all service the surrounding areas. The farmer who owns the nearest field lives 8 miles away. Of the eight farmhouses in this parish only two are occupied by farmers. The rest are owned by commuters. The fields are worked by absentee farmers.
Mike
 Signature M.J.Powell
The Highlander - 21 May 2007 19:55 GMT >>>>> You don't think all those huge nineteenth century cottages were built >>>>> for [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >then main Edinburgh/Glasgow roads. Mind you there were no GPs, priests or >ministers who lived there. You took the words out of my mouth.
Les Cargill - 18 May 2007 01:54 GMT >>>>If, as you suggest, the better-off nouveau ex-townie villagers nip off in >>>>their ridiculous 4x4s to the towns, then it is not them who would benefit [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > <I imagine this conversation will produce some interesting comments from > across the pond when they get out of bed in a few hours> This sounds exactly like North Texas (Dallas), Atlanta or any other megaburb in the U.S.
I bet the beer is better...
-- Les Cargill
Billzz - 18 May 2007 02:09 GMT >>>>>If, as you suggest, the better-off nouveau ex-townie villagers nip off >>>>>in their ridiculous 4x4s to the towns, then it is not them who would [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > -- > Les Cargill The beer is the same, now. In Dallas we found many pubs with Guinness on tap.
Les Cargill - 18 May 2007 02:17 GMT > "Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message <snip>
>>This sounds exactly like North Texas (Dallas), Atlanta or any other >>megaburb in the U.S. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > The beer is the same, now. In Dallas we found many pubs with Guinness on > tap. The Guiness here is not the same as in Canada. It's watered or something. I have heard it's different still across the pond.
-- Les Cargill
Billzz - 18 May 2007 02:58 GMT >> "Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message > <snip> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > -- > Les Cargill Here is more than any reasonable person would want to know about Guinness....
http://www.panix.com/~clay/guiness.html
La N - 18 May 2007 03:55 GMT >>> "Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message >> <snip> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > http://www.panix.com/~clay/guiness.html All we need to know is that it tastes good! And, having said that ... I think I may be having guests tomorrow night ... and it's been a couple of years since I've had a Guinness ... hmmmmm ...... I guess I'll bring out the ole Irish Rovers records, pick up a Guinness variety pack ... yay, nostalgia! Yay, excuse to party! ...:)
- nilita
Billzz - 18 May 2007 07:00 GMT >>>> "Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message >>> <snip> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > - nilita The Clancy Brothers final appearance. A DVD filmed in Belfast...
http://www.amazon.com/Reunion-Concert-Clancy-Brothers/dp/B000087F4H/ref=pd_bbs_s r_1/103-2457835-5087043?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1179467554&sr=1-1
When they get to the end and roll the credits, and the announcer relates what happened to them, you will cry.
I had the Clancy Brothers Songbook, and know most by heart, but don't seem to sing them anymore.
La N - 18 May 2007 07:10 GMT >>>>> "Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message >>>> <snip> [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > When they get to the end and roll the credits, and the announcer relates > what happened to them, you will cry. So .... what happened to them? ... ;( Go ahead and break my heart. I don't mind crying .. ;(
> I had the Clancy Brothers Songbook, and know most by heart, but don't seem > to sing them anymore. Well, by now, Col. (ret'd) Billzz, you know the story of how I used to sing Irish Folk Songs - including Clancy Bros. standards - with a now deceased Irish Catholic Priest - he with the guitar, me with the mandolin ... Where does the time go? ....
- nilita
Eugene Griessel - 18 May 2007 07:36 GMT >Well, by now, Col. (ret'd) Billzz, you know the story of how I used to sing >Irish Folk Songs - including Clancy Bros. standards - with a now deceased >Irish Catholic Priest - he with the guitar, me with the mandolin . Did you do "rising of the moon"?
Eugene L Griessel
Cocaine isn't habit forming. I should know -- I've been using it for years. -- Talullah Bankhead
La N - 18 May 2007 07:42 GMT >>Well, by now, Col. (ret'd) Billzz, you know the story of how I used to >>sing >>Irish Folk Songs - including Clancy Bros. standards - with a now deceased >>Irish Catholic Priest - he with the guitar, me with the mandolin . > > Did you do "rising of the moon"? Heh .. neh .. :)
We did Irish drinking songs .... :)
Poor young-too-soon-to-be-old Father Lynch died of cyrhossis of the liver, even after a few years of sobriety. I'm still alive. I was a Protestant sinner. 's'plains' everything ... ;)
- nil
PS: IIRC, the song "Black Velvet Band" was one of our most requested ....
In a neat little town they call Belfast Apprenticed in trade I was bound And many's the hour of sweet happiness I spent in that neat little town Till bad misfortune befell me That caused me to stray from the land Far away from my friends and relations To follow the black velvet band
Her eyes they shone like the diamond You'd think she was queen of the land And her hair hung over her shoulder Tied up with a black velvet band
Eugene Griessel - 18 May 2007 07:49 GMT >>>Well, by now, Col. (ret'd) Billzz, you know the story of how I used to >>>sing [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >We did Irish drinking songs .... :) There are other kinds?
>Poor young-too-soon-to-be-old Father Lynch died of cyrhossis of the liver, >even after a few years of sobriety. I'm still alive. I was a Protestant >sinner. 's'plains' everything ... ;) Yes - the catholic priesthood is renowned for its ability to consume food and liquor in these parts at least! Common rule of thumb at catholic weddings is that if Father is invited to the reception cater for three more people.
>- nil > >PS: IIRC, the song "Black Velvet Band" was one of our most requested .... What about sticking the penknife in the babby's head?
Eugene L Griessel
The brain is not an empty vessel to be filled; it is a fire to be lit. - Plutarch
La N - 18 May 2007 07:54 GMT >>>>Well, by now, Col. (ret'd) Billzz, you know the story of how I used to >>>>sing [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > There are other kinds? Not at all. I should look for the old photos from those days ... I used to have a mild crush on Will Millar of the Irish Rovers, and we exchanged correspondence for a while, including - ta da! - poetry! (the more things change ...)
Father Jimmy taught me how to drink .. and, as I said ... I was Protestant!
>>Poor young-too-soon-to-be-old Father Lynch died of cyrhossis of the liver, >>even after a few years of sobriety. I'm still alive. I was a Protestant [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > catholic weddings is that if Father is invited to the reception cater > for three more people. I think I was the only Protestant accepted into that circle .. only because I could play the instruments, sing harmony, and drink the parishioners' home made brandy with aplume ... ;)
- nilita
Billzz - 18 May 2007 07:37 GMT >>>>>> "Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message >>>>> <snip> [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > - nilita Well, the story is here....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clancy_Brothers_&_Tommy_Makem
Liam Clancy and Tommy Makem (they were much younger) are left. They have some wonderful recordings - I think Shanachie Records. My best man (full Irish he is, and I'm only half Irish) at my wedding - we used to sing together - knows Liam, who lives close by in New Hampshire. I'm invited, but, being in California, it would be hard. What can I say? I know all the words and music to "Wild Rover" and "Brennan On The Moor," and "O'Reilly's Daughter" and whatever, but I just don't sing them anymore.
La N - 18 May 2007 07:48 GMT >>>>>>> "Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message >>>>>> <snip> [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > the words and music to "Wild Rover" and "Brennan On The Moor," and > "O'Reilly's Daughter" and whatever, but I just don't sing them anymore. Okay ... it's all coming back to me .... A lot of dem are now dead. I sucked as a singer but was pretty good at (rhythm) guitar and autoharp. As I alluded to in a previous post, I don't recall too many songs (that I sang/played) in those years, but Black Velvet Band was a favourite. My neighbour in those days was a member of the folk singing group "Chad Mitchell Trio". Remember them
- nilita
Billzz - 18 May 2007 08:16 GMT >>>>>>>> "Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message >>>>>>> <snip> [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > > - nilita Yes, I do remember them. Father Reinard W. Beaver was a priest at Fort Ord, California when I was there, and I knew him....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad_Mitchell_Trio
Okay, it's a long story. He lived in a trailer, with a huge oil painting of Jerry Lewis, autographed with thanks (another story.) He was the parish priest in Hollywood, but could not stand the maintenance of the plumbing and the whatever, and so became a US Army chaplain. He drove the guys to the Blue Angel in Chicago where they got their start. John Denver got his start (played twelve string guitar) with the Chad Mitchell Trio. As fate would have it, John Denver died in an experimental aircraft, because he was to short to reach the auxiliary fuel tank, and pushed the rudder, instead of the bulkhead, and crashed into Monterey Bay, making this story come full cycle.
La N - 18 May 2007 08:27 GMT >>>>>>>>> "Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>> <snip> [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] > rudder, instead of the bulkhead, and crashed into Monterey Bay, making > this story come full cycle. Talk about 2-3 degrees of separation, Col. (ret'd) Billzz. It was Mike Kobluk who was my neighbour.. Small world, eh?
- nilita
Billzz - 18 May 2007 08:47 GMT >>>>>>>>>> "Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>> <snip> [quoted text clipped - 92 lines] > > - nilita It sure is, Ms Nilita. We may know the same people. Or maybe the people who know the same people, or something like that. It's late. See ya!
La N - 18 May 2007 08:51 GMT >>>>>>>>>>> "Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>> <snip> [quoted text clipped - 95 lines] > It sure is, Ms Nilita. We may know the same people. Or maybe the people > who know the same people, or something like that. It's late. See ya! High-Five, Col. (ret'd) Billzz! Read this, and get to me in the morning:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_separation
It is indeed late, and I'm retiring. Good to know you, as always ....
- nilita
Robert Peffers. - 18 May 2007 13:29 GMT >>>> "Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message >>> <snip> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > - nilita It matters nought where you get your Guinness - it still tastes like cat's pish.
 Signature
Robert Peffers, Kelty, Fife, Scotland, (UK).
Bryn - 18 May 2007 07:41 GMT >> "Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message ><snip> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >The Guiness here is not the same as in Canada. It's watered or >something. I have heard it's different still across the pond. Guinness is a joke the Irish played on the English, rather like the Indians and curry...
 Signature Bryn
I suppose its expected that some pithy comment be inserted here but I can't be arsed.
Remove the gremlins to email me...
William Black - 18 May 2007 08:46 GMT > Guinness is a joke the Irish played on the English, rather like the > Indians and curry... So why do the Irish drink the stuff?
 Signature William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea.
Bryn - 18 May 2007 12:36 GMT >> Guinness is a joke the Irish played on the English, rather like the >> Indians and curry... > >So why do the Irish drink the stuff? Why do the English eat Curry?
I am reliably informed that formerly the Irish stuff did not resemble the bottled stuff in any way. I am sure that this is no longer the case.
I have no personal experience as I was a Red Barrel, Macky and Red Biddy drinker. And I have photos of my knobbly liver to prove it.
 Signature Bryn
Piss Artist (Retired) RA
I suppose its expected that some pithy comment be inserted here but I can't be arsed.
Remove the gremlins to email me...
The Highlander - 20 May 2007 20:32 GMT >> "Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message ><snip> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >The Guiness here is not the same as in Canada. It's watered or >something. I have heard it's different still across the pond. My understanding is as you say that American beers are brewed with less alcohol content than Canadian beers. However, I must say that I have tasted some very fine, full strength beers from Oregon micro-breweries which would stand comparison against the best beers brewed anywhere.
British Columbia-brewed Guinness from New Westminster does not compare well with the original from Ireland. However, that now seems to have been remedied by imports directly from the Guinness brewery at St James's Gate, Dublin in the form of cans which taste just like the original, to my palate at least. http://www.guinness-storehouse.com/
If you can get it, I would also recommend Pilsner Urquell from the Czech Republic, considered by many aficionados to be the best beer in the world. http://www.pilsnerurquell.com/
A Scottish friend, master of a Chinese freighter out of Shanghai, used to bring me cases in the 1970s when picking up grain cargos from the Port of Vancouver, of a comparable pilsner from the Tsingtao Brewery south of Shanghai, (Qingdao) called Tsingtao Beer. The brewery was leased to Germany during the period of the western powers carving out spheres of influence for themselves in China after the Opium Wars, and when the Communists took over, the brewery continued to thrive under local Chinese management, all trained by the Germans, which of course meant very well trained indeed.
Today I can buy Tsingtao locally as I live in a Chinese community where it is a popular local brew and usually costs one to two dollars a can less than Czech Urquell. It may amuse you to read that the old Chinese hands swore that Tsingtao was an acronym for "This sh.t Is No Good To Any One". (In reality Tsingtao/Qingdao means "Green Island"). There is a website at http://www.tsingtaobeer.com/
For history buffs this site is also of interest.
http://www.firstworldwar.com/battles/tsingtao.htm
I cannot forbear to mention a Scottish beer, McEwan's Scotch Ale, which is sweet-tasting - the Scots are, per head the world's largest consumers of sugar - and in consequence, the most toothless people in the world - comes at a pleasant 8% alcoholic strength - it must be remembered that beer in Scotland competes against Scotch whisky (or in Glasgow, Vodka). Drinkers' impressions may be read at:
http://www.epinions.com/content_12036509316
I might add that as a steady consumer of MacEwan's as a young man, it does come with one helluva hangover after the first three or four and I might do some research some day to determine whether the Scots are also the world's largest consumers of aspirin...
It may amuse you to know that being blind drunk in Scotland is considered a fine and noble estate, as well as being the nation's Number One health problem concerning teenagers. There are all sorts of euphemisms for the condition in the Highlands (I can't speak for southern Scotland which is a somewhat separate culture) such as "He's had a long day" (Translation - he's been drinking like a fish since he woke this morning); "He's fond of his dram" (dram - a shot of whisky, Gaelic "Drama") - translation, he is a hopeless alcoholic), and for women lying on their faces; "she's a bit foolish".
Drunkenness and passing out because of drink are considered part of normal life and no stigma attaches; in fact there is usually sympathy for the drunk lying unconscious on the floor or sprawled across the table with his face buried in the Caesar salad, to my wife's ill-concealed irritation when it happened. The sprawlee was so drunk that I put him in the bath (after removing his outer clothing) and turned on the cold shower. It worked like a charm - something had to be done; the man had nearly exhausted the resources of our drink supply.
In Gaelic the standard term for being drunk is "Tha an smùid air (the smoke is on him. and one occasionally hears eager teenagers saying, "Bidh sinn dallta leis an òl a-nochd! - We will get blind drunk tonight!"(For a glimpse of Gaelic language construction, this literally says. "Will-be we blinded with the drinking the night). Cf Scots the Necht, meaning tonight. In the Isles, one can occasionaly see a typical couple of 14 year old girls at a dance slipping into the Ladies to drain their shared-expenses half bottle of whisky or rum.
Another quaint feature of Gaelic culture (in days gone by because of the price of whisky) was that, depending on the time of day when bracing oneself against reality with another dram, there is a special word for the dram taken at any specific time. Thus the dram taken on awakening is called "sgailc". After dressing, a second small dram, often called a "nip" in Highland English or "friochd" in Gaelic is taken to restore one's equilibrium and help one to negotiate the passage to the dining room.
The order of drinking on rising among the better-off was as follows:
1. An sgailc-uide - a tumbler of whisky, the wakening drink. 2. Am friochd-ullinn - a half-tumbler; the making ready drink. 3. An deoch chas-ruisgte - the drink of the bare feet 4. An deoch bhlèth - the grinding drink. (I don't know why).
The gentleman then sat down to breakfast...
If a guest felt a little peaky, he might be offered a deoch-maidne; a morning drink or restorative, consisting of an egg whipped in milk and a splash of whisky added to
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