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Washington On Americans

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D. Spencer Hines - 14 Jun 2007 17:15 GMT
"The name of American, which belongs to you, in your national capacity, must
always exalt the just pride of Patriotism, more than any appellation derived
from local discriminations."

-- George Washington (Farewell Address, 1796)

Reference: Inaugural Addresses of the Presidents of the United States
dapra - 14 Jun 2007 20:30 GMT
> "The name of American, which belongs to you, in your national capacity, must
> always exalt the just pride of Patriotism, more than any appellation derived
> from local discriminations."
>
> -- George Washington (Farewell Address, 1796)

It sounds like a self serving statement. You are American, though you
are discriminated, not only by locality, but by wealth and color, you
have no right to vote, but you should be a proud Patriotic American to
defend OUR rule. Did anything changed in the last 200 years? Not much.

> Reference: Inaugural Addresses of the Presidents of the United States
Conway Caine - 14 Jun 2007 21:52 GMT
> "The name of American, which belongs to you, in your national capacity,
> must always exalt the just pride of Patriotism, more than any appellation
> derived from local discriminations."
>
> -- George Washington (Farewell Address, 1796)

Does Auld Bob know George Washington used the term "American"?
Auld Bob says we ain't supposed to use the term "American".
Wonder if Auld Bob would have told George Washington that?
D. Spencer Hines - 15 Jun 2007 00:10 GMT
Yes, the silliest expression of all is "USian" which we often see as posted
by pogues in these newsgroups...

Who think they're being cute and sassy.

DSH

>> "The name of American, which belongs to you, in your national capacity,
>> must always exalt the just pride of Patriotism, more than any appellation
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Auld Bob says we ain't supposed to use the term "American".
> Wonder if Auld Bob would have told George Washington that?
Brian Sharrock - 15 Jun 2007 08:41 GMT
> Yes, the silliest expression of all is "USian" which we often see as
> posted by pogues in these newsgroups...
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>> Auld Bob says we ain't supposed to use the term "American".
>> Wonder if Auld Bob would have told George Washington that?

George Washington's comment needs to be understood in the context within
which he made it.
He used the terms 'American ' and 'national capacity to contrast with
Virginianians; Carloninans, New Yorkers et.al. who had joined in the
'American Revolutionary War. {doubtless because they were expecting 'Home
Rule' for their colony rather than a Federal US government overlord}.

The 'fact' that George Washington used the term 'American' does not make
that term correct - no more than the later POTUS who declared 'I am a Jelly
Doughnut!"  - words from Presidential lips are not the words of God!

Signature

Brian

deemsbill@aol.com - 15 Jun 2007 14:16 GMT
> > Yes, the silliest expression of all is "USian" which we often see as
> > posted by pogues in these newsgroups...
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> 'American Revolutionary War. {doubtless because they were expecting 'Home
> Rule' for their colony rather than a Federal US government overlord}.

  Gee, then maybe they should've voted down the Articles or
Constitution...

> The 'fact' that George Washington used the term 'American' does not make
> that term correct - no more than the later POTUS who declared 'I am a Jelly
> Doughnut!"  - words from Presidential lips are not the words of God!

  I just love those who think we are not entitled to call ourselves
what we choose.

> --
>
> Brian- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Conway Caine - 15 Jun 2007 14:58 GMT
>> > Yes, the silliest expression of all is "USian" which we often see as
>> > posted by pogues in these newsgroups...
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>   I just love those who think we are not entitled to call ourselves
> what we choose.

Remember, these guys are eaten up with jealousy, living as they do in their
thatched roofed huts.
Conway Caine - 15 Jun 2007 14:57 GMT
>> Yes, the silliest expression of all is "USian" which we often see as
>> posted by pogues in these newsgroups...
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> that term correct - no more than the later POTUS who declared 'I am a
> Jelly Doughnut!"  - words from Presidential lips are not the words of God!

Would you not think a proven two hundred years of usage might make it
acceptable?
(Or had you considered that aspect?)
TMOliver - 15 Jun 2007 16:42 GMT
> Would you not think a proven two hundred years of usage might make it
> acceptable?
> (Or had you considered that aspect?)

I don't know which is the more correct usage, only that Canuckistanis take
umbrage at not being included in the umbrella of "Americans".

I'll happily revert to the classic drawl of my fellow Texican, LBJ, who gave
us: "My fellow 'Merkins".....

TMO
Conway Caine - 16 Jun 2007 02:41 GMT
>> Would you not think a proven two hundred years of usage might make it
>> acceptable?
>> (Or had you considered that aspect?)
>
> I don't know which is the more correct usage, only that Canuckistanis take
> umbrage at not being included in the umbrella of "Americans".

Hey, the door is always open.
Give Quebec back to France and the rest of the crowd can jump right under
our umbrella, complete with their own Senators and Representatives.
(Ay God, that would give Auld Bob a jolt)

> I'll happily revert to the classic drawl of my fellow Texican, LBJ, who
> gave us: "My fellow 'Merkins".....

LBJ had a great sense of humor, didn't he?
Jack Linthicum - 16 Jun 2007 16:12 GMT
> >> Would you not think a proven two hundred years of usage might make it
> >> acceptable?
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> LBJ had a great sense of humor, didn't he?

In that long-gone era when Canada could not be a part of the Pan-
American Union, later the Organization of American States, sort of
because they didn't want to and sort of because the United States
considered them a British colony. This changed after WWII but Canada
still retained an attitude of " we would like to take part in some of
the organizations (health for one) but don't want to spend any money
or commit ourselves to anything further". Eventually, they saw the
price of staying out was higher than the price of getting in.
Conway Caine - 16 Jun 2007 21:38 GMT
>> >> Would you not think a proven two hundred years of usage might make it
>> >> acceptable?
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> or commit ourselves to anything further". Eventually, they saw the
> price of staying out was higher than the price of getting in.

The marvel is that they have managed to stay a separate country.
If we Americans were the Imperialists we are pictured to be, there would be
no Canada, only six or seven more states on the Union and a whole lot of
jumping mad Quebeckers.
D. Spencer Hines - 16 Jun 2007 21:48 GMT
Precisely!

DSH
----------------------------

> The marvel is that they have managed to stay a separate country.
> If we Americans were the Imperialists we are pictured to be, there would
> be no Canada, only six or seven more states on the Union and a whole lot
> of jumping mad Quebeckers.
Conway Caine - 17 Jun 2007 19:15 GMT
Some do tend to lose sight of the facts when pursuing their agendas.

> Precisely!
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>> be no Canada, only six or seven more states on the Union and a whole lot
>> of jumping mad Quebeckers.
The Highlander - 18 Jun 2007 17:59 GMT
>Some do tend to lose sight of the facts when pursuing their agendas.
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>>> be no Canada, only six or seven more states on the Union and a whole lot
>>> of jumping mad Quebeckers.

In fact the US did make a serious attempt to take over Eastern Canada,
but were routed by a bunch of Scottish farmers.

Have you ever noticed how history has a way of repeating itself?

Vietnam
The Iraqi insurgency
that sort of thing...

The Highlander
Tilgibh smucaid air do làmhan,
togaibh a' bhratach dhubh agus
toisichibh a' geàrradh na sgòrnanan!
Conway Caine - 18 Jun 2007 21:43 GMT
>>Some do tend to lose sight of the facts when pursuing their agendas.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> The Iraqi insurgency
> that sort of thing...

Are you suggesting the Canadians will be across the border seeking
vengeance?
Will they be wearing American flags on their backpacks so we can recognize
them?
Ray O'Hara - 19 Jun 2007 01:04 GMT
> >Some do tend to lose sight of the facts when pursuing their agendas.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Have you ever noticed how history has a way of repeating itself?

the last american invasion were in 1813.  redcoats {not scottish sheep
shaggers} replused the ones along the niagara frontier.
canadian farmers participating is pure mythology. myths that are destroyed
by canadian historian pierre berton in his books on the war of 1812..

william henery harrison's did quite well in ontario and the battle of the
thames was a great american victory.
Tankfixer - 17 Jun 2007 00:15 GMT
In article <iTXci.173856$p47.95328@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
ccaine@worldnet.att.net mumbled

> >> >> Would you not think a proven two hundred years of usage might make it
> >> >> acceptable?
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> no Canada, only six or seven more states on the Union and a whole lot of
> jumping mad Quebeckers.

The Quebeckers will be jumping mad no matter what rule they are
under....

--
Usenetsaurus n. an early pedantic internet mammal, who survived on a
diet of static text and
cascading "threads."
Conway Caine - 17 Jun 2007 19:16 GMT
> In article <iTXci.173856$p47.95328@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> ccaine@worldnet.att.net mumbled
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> The Quebeckers will be jumping mad no matter what rule they are
> under....

They are French after all........
They will never be happy until they are back supping at the table of their
motherland.
Tankfixer - 18 Jun 2007 02:55 GMT
In article <GTedi.95553$Sa4.43586@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
ccaine@worldnet.att.net mumbled

> > In article <iTXci.173856$p47.95328@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> > ccaine@worldnet.att.net mumbled
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> They will never be happy until they are back supping at the table of their
> motherland.

So where could I pitch in a $20 for the boat fare back ?

--
Usenetsaurus n. an early pedantic internet mammal, who survived on a
diet of static text and
cascading "threads."
Conway Caine - 18 Jun 2007 14:31 GMT
> In article <GTedi.95553$Sa4.43586@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> ccaine@worldnet.att.net mumbled
[quoted text clipped - 53 lines]
>
> So where could I pitch in a $20 for the boat fare back ?

Er, no, that won't work.
They want Quebec grafted back into France.
(Where it was before the English came along)
Les Cargill - 18 Jun 2007 23:54 GMT
>>In article <iTXci.173856$p47.95328@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>>ccaine@worldnet.att.net mumbled
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
>
> They are French after all........

Do *NOT* say that in the presence of Quebeckers, unless
you really want to be injured. The Quebeckers I know,
at least, take serious umbrage. And are generally a decent,
if somewhat resigned lot.

> They will never be happy until they are back supping at the table of their
> motherland.

Not likely.

--
Les Cargill
Conway Caine - 19 Jun 2007 01:32 GMT
>>>In article <iTXci.173856$p47.95328@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>>>ccaine@worldnet.att.net mumbled
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
>
> Not likely.

Actually I'm pulling the legs of some of our Canadian friends.
I know there is a bit of a tiff twixt French/Canadians and Brit/Canadians
but still one country.
Ray O'Hara - 19 Jun 2007 04:41 GMT
> > Not likely.
>
> Actually I'm pulling the legs of some of our Canadian friends.
> I know there is a bit of a tiff twixt French/Canadians and Brit/Canadians
> but still one country.

a few years back while in montreal for the F1 canadian grand prix, we had
no legal accomodations and where sleeping in a park along the st lawrence.
eventually some french-canadian cops came and woke us up. they asked us one
question,"are you from ontario?" it was a relief to say "no,we're from
boston"
they said okay and let us go back to sleep.
if we had answered yes i'm sure we would have gotten hauled in.
Conway Caine - 19 Jun 2007 15:35 GMT
>> > Not likely.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> they said okay and let us go back to sleep.
> if we had answered yes i'm sure we would have gotten hauled in.

No love lost there.....
Adam Whyte-Settlar - 17 Jun 2007 07:39 GMT
>>> >> Would you not think a proven two hundred years of usage might make it
>>> >> acceptable?
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> be no Canada, only six or seven more states on the Union and a whole lot
> of jumping mad Quebeckers.

I can't believe you guys. Are you seriously telling me you don't know
anything about the 1812-1815 American invasions of Canada and how you got
routed half a dozen times on the trot.
Do the battles of  Detroit, Queenstown, Stoney Creek, Chataeu Gay or Toronto
ring any bells with you? Toronto you might recall was where your ill-trained
thugs disobeyed orders and raped and looted and burnt down the town. Not
before they had managed to self-inflict 300 casualties on their own men that
is. Some things never change.
What about the Battle of Stoney Creek? Heard of that one. That was when the
US forces were routed by a British force one third it's size. Didn't get
taught about that in history eh?
OK - what about the Battle of Chateau Gay? That was the one where 12,000 US
forces ran away at the mere sound of the British bugles and only found out
later that there were only a few hundred of them. Not in the history
curriculum either huh?
All right - an easy one then. You *must* have been taught about the Battle
of Chryslers Farm. That one is particularly famous in Britain because it was
the one where 800 British Redcoats routed *8,000* American troops. Yes -
thought you would remember that.
But of course the  crucial battle that secured Canada's independence was at
Lundy's Lane where the forces and casualties where more or less even at
about 1,000 each but the Americans cracked first and ran away to Fort Eyrie
where they held out for a few months before being driven out of Canada
alltogether.
Of course being vengefull British we chased your cowardly rabble and after
yet again routing a much larger force at the Battle of Bladensburg we
marched to Washington and burnt the White House to the ground.

Well you started it.

No doubt you where only taught about Fort McHenry and the 'Star Spangled
Banner' - well yes - Hollywood *did* make several films about that one.
Sheesh. How is it that the British know more about your history than you
ever will.
Conway Caine - 17 Jun 2007 19:18 GMT
>>>> >> Would you not think a proven two hundred years of usage might make
>>>> >> it
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> anything about the 1812-1815 American invasions of Canada and how you got
> routed half a dozen times on the trot.
***************************************
Of course we don't remember that one.
We got our butts stomped.
Do you know nothing of human nature?

<Deleted a shitload of historical inaccuracies>
Adam Whyte-Settlar - 18 Jun 2007 06:08 GMT
>>>>> >> Would you not think a proven two hundred years of usage might make
>>>>> >> it
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> We got our butts stomped.
> Do you know nothing of human nature?

Well I know you made up a story called the 'battle of New Orleans' - I've
checked every British rerence library I could and have never found a single
mention of it.

> <Deleted a shitload of historical inaccuracies>

Cheeky git - they weren't *that* inaccurate. The gist is certainly true.
Do you want me to quote chapter and verse yet again.
You know I could.
Conway Caine - 18 Jun 2007 14:33 GMT
>>>>>> >> Would you not think a proven two hundred years of usage might make
>>>>>> >> it
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> checked every British rerence library I could and have never found a
> single mention of it.

Google "The Battle Of Clyde Flats".
Meanwhile, this weekend I'm off to once again tour the Cowspens battlefield
where Tarleton got his comeupppance at the hands of American farmers.

>> <Deleted a shitload of historical inaccuracies>
>
> Cheeky git - they weren't *that* inaccurate. The gist is certainly true.
> Do you want me to quote chapter and verse yet again.
> You know I could.

Perhaps but I'll not read them.
Ray O'Hara - 19 Jun 2007 01:18 GMT
> >>> >> Would you not think a proven two hundred years of usage might make it
> >>> >> acceptable?
[quoted text clipped - 64 lines]
> Sheesh. How is it that the British know more about your history than you
> ever will.

of course you very nicely leave out lundy's lane where the american army
defeated and drove off in rout the british regulars.
or the battle of the thames where the british general, henry proctor, hopped
into his carriage and fled the field , abandoning his army and his indian
allies.
and all the battles on the lakes that ended in  complete british
humiliation. the battle of lake erie, and the battle of plattsburg on lake
champlain.,

after the battle of the river raison the brits allowed their indian allies
to massacre americans who surrendered when falsely promised they would be
well treated. and the brit army that burned washington was nothing more than
a looting raid where rapes was common and atrocity frequent

and even though after the treaty the brit army was slaughtered at new
orleans due to incompetent leadership by the fool ned packenham
the brits suffering 2000 casualties and the americans under 100.

"we have met the enemy,
and they are ours,
2 ships,2 brigs,1 schooner,1 sloop."
oliver hazard perry,
in his report to the president announcing his victory of put-in-bay on lake
erie.
the list of captured ships was the entire british force.
Hal - 21 Jun 2007 15:02 GMT
> > >>> "TMOliver" <tmoliverjr...@hot.rr.comFIX> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 81 lines]
>  of course you very nicely leave out lundy's lane where the american army
> defeated and drove off in rout the british regulars.

Tinfoil is slipping a little bit there Ray.
Hal - 16 Jun 2007 15:55 GMT
> > Would you not think a proven two hundred years of usage might make it
> > acceptable?
> > (Or had you considered that aspect?)
>
> I don't know which is the more correct usage, only that Canuckistanis take
> umbrage at not being included in the umbrella of "Americans".

ROTFLMAO  Sit on your umbrella and rotate.
In Canada, by common usage, the appellation 'American' means
specifically the inhabitants of the USA. Canadians do not want to be
called or in any way be mistaken for 'Americans', more so today than
ever before as the US has become more and more loathsome to the rest
of the world.

It is considered to be insulting, similar to the use of various forms
of Canuckistan by the ludicrous US right, as they flatter their mentor
Pat Robertson. (the term was picked up by some here to mock the
lunatic religious right USians and their admirers who continue to use
it)

We are proud of our country. On the other hand, it is not uncommon for
Americans travelling outside of the US to disguise there origin by
wearing pins or patches with the Canadian flag. This isn't anything
new either, as it was being done by Americans in Norway, Sweden,
England and France (at least) in the early 70s, and continues today.
La N - 16 Jun 2007 16:16 GMT
>> > Would you not think a proven two hundred years of usage might make it
>> > acceptable?
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> ever before as the US has become more and more loathsome to the rest
> of the world.

Quite true.

- nilita
D. Spencer Hines - 16 Jun 2007 16:16 GMT
You see?

Canadians don't WANT to be called Americans.

'Nuff Said.

So Be It...

We are Americans and proud of it -- and they are Canadians.

DSH

> In Canada, by common usage, the appellation 'American' means
> specifically the inhabitants of the USA. Canadians do not want to be
> called or in any way be mistaken for 'Americans', more so today than
> ever before as the US has become more and more loathsome to the rest
> of the world.  [SOCP]
La N - 16 Jun 2007 16:29 GMT
> You see?
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>> ever before as the US has become more and more loathsome to the rest
>> of the world.  [SOCP]

I've never understood that "Proud to be ...." biz.  Fer instance, I'm
Canadian, and I love my country.  But "proud to be ..."?  IMHO "pride" is
something in which you measure your self-worth.    And I don't get how
someone's country of origin has anything to do with that.

But, anyway .... It's true Canadians don't want to be referred to as
Americans any more than Americans care to be called Canadians.  What's the
big deal?

- nilita
Adam Whyte-Settlar - 17 Jun 2007 07:43 GMT
>> You see?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> But, anyway .... It's true Canadians don't want to be referred to as
> Americans any more than Americans care to be called Canadians.

They do once they are outside of the kindergarden. Americans abroad often
pretend to be Canadians to avoid the harrassment and the stigma.
Please don't ask me for cites as I already provided about 15 in another
thread a few weeks ago.

What's the
> big deal?
>
> - nilita
La N - 17 Jun 2007 13:50 GMT
>>> You see?
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> Please don't ask me for cites as I already provided about 15 in another
> thread a few weeks ago.

And I have been told in my travels that I'm smart to have a big red maple
leaf flag on my luggage.  I only do that to be able to identify my luggage
from many other look-a-likes that come down the baggage chute at airports.

- nilita
Conway Caine - 17 Jun 2007 19:24 GMT
>>> You see?
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> Please don't ask me for cites as I already provided about 15 in another
> thread a few weeks ago.

How long you guys intend to spend perpetrating this Urban Myth?
Adam Whyte-Settlar - 18 Jun 2007 06:10 GMT
"Conway Caine" <ccaine@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:a%edi.95573$Sa4.17186@bgtnsc05-
>>> But, anyway .... It's true Canadians don't want to be referred to as
>>> Americans any more than Americans care to be called Canadians.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> How long you guys intend to spend perpetrating this Urban Myth?

Now I *know* you are just stirring it as it was partly for your benefit that
I researched the 15 cites I posted last month.
Most of them from Americans themselves if you recall.
Your being senile comes in handy for you sometimes eh?
Conway Caine - 18 Jun 2007 14:38 GMT
> "Conway Caine" <ccaine@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:a%edi.95573$Sa4.17186@bgtnsc05-
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Most of them from Americans themselves if you recall.
> Your being senile comes in handy for you sometimes eh?

You don't mind if I sidestep yet again?
It is, after all, the Scottish Way.
(But when we come to conquer Oz and Kiwiland, we'll all be wearing AMERICAN
flags on our uniforms, rest assured.)
La N - 18 Jun 2007 14:39 GMT
>> "Conway Caine" <ccaine@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>> news:a%edi.95573$Sa4.17186@bgtnsc05-
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> (But when we come to conquer Oz and Kiwiland, we'll all be wearing
> AMERICAN flags on our uniforms, rest assured.)

Just don't send wimmin soldiers over there ... they'll prolly come back
preggers like the canuck grrrrrls ....

- nilita
Conway Caine - 18 Jun 2007 21:29 GMT
>>> "Conway Caine" <ccaine@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>>> news:a%edi.95573$Sa4.17186@bgtnsc05-
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> Just don't send wimmin soldiers over there ... they'll prolly come back
> preggers like the canuck grrrrrls ....

You've not seen the small rubber innertubes the US Army provides its troops
to prevent such eventualties.
Adam Whyte-Settlar - 19 Jun 2007 03:52 GMT
"Conway Caine" <ccaine@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:bXBdi.184933$p47.137827@bgtnsc04-

>> Just don't send wimmin soldiers over there ... they'll prolly come back
>> preggers like the canuck grrrrrls ....
>
> You've not seen the small rubber innertubes the US Army provides its
> troops to prevent such eventualties.

You seriously think you can beat off a randy canuck with just an innertube!?
Conway Caine - 19 Jun 2007 15:16 GMT
> "Conway Caine" <ccaine@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:bXBdi.184933$p47.137827@bgtnsc04-
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> You seriously think you can beat off a randy canuck with just an
> innertube!?

One wears the innertube, Adam, while one engages in intercourse..
It somehow interferes with procreation.
I think it reduces your partner to gales of laughter.
Adam Whyte-Settlar - 18 Jun 2007 15:15 GMT
>> "Conway Caine" <ccaine@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>> news:a%edi.95573$Sa4.17186@bgtnsc05-
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> (But when we come to conquer Oz and Kiwiland, we'll all be wearing
> AMERICAN flags on our uniforms, rest assured.)

Well good luck trying to get past the reef, then the sharks, then the crocs,
then the jellies, then the shellfish and sea-snakes before the landsnakes
and funnel webs take their share and pass you on to the Cassowaries for
disemboweling. If there's anyone left after the quicksands and
killing-nettles the Abo's can have you for breakfast.
Who needs an army if you live in North Queensland?
Conway Caine - 18 Jun 2007 21:30 GMT
>>> "Conway Caine" <ccaine@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>>> news:a%edi.95573$Sa4.17186@bgtnsc05-
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> and killing-nettles the Abo's can have you for breakfast.
> Who needs an army if you live in North Queensland?

Perhaps we might postpone our invasion until a more auspicious time.
No sense stirring up the local flora and fauna.
Think Green, I say.
Conway Caine - 16 Jun 2007 21:34 GMT
>> > Would you not think a proven two hundred years of usage might make it
>> > acceptable?
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> new either, as it was being done by Americans in Norway, Sweden,
> England and France (at least) in the early 70s, and continues today.

Aw come on now.
You know you want to join the Union and have your very own Senators and
Representatives.
As I've said before, ditch the Quebeckers and we'll welcome you back with
open arms.
Hal - 21 Jun 2007 15:08 GMT
> Aw come on now.
> You know you want to join the Union and have your very own Senators and
> Representatives.
> As I've said before, ditch the Quebeckers and we'll welcome you back with
> open arms.

We don't have any interest in joining the UK. We already have our own
Senators, many of whom played in the Stanley Cup this year. Without
French Canadians, the NHL would have folded decades ago. Can't see a
team called the 'Representatives', but after Disney's Ducks won the
cup, anything is possible.

In the case of 'arms', the northerly flow of those is already a
problem on the streets of our fair cities. We wouldn't mind if you
kept your arms to yourselves.

Hal
Conway Caine - 21 Jun 2007 15:29 GMT
>> Aw come on now.
>> You know you want to join the Union and have your very own Senators and
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> problem on the streets of our fair cities. We wouldn't mind if you
> kept your arms to yourselves.

Have you thought about tightening up your borders?
I mean, your thugs keep buying and our thugs keep selling.
Hal - 23 Jun 2007 12:00 GMT
> >> Aw come on now.
> >> You know you want to join the Union and have your very own Senators and
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Have you thought about tightening up your borders?
> I mean, your thugs keep buying and our thugs keep selling.

Our borders? We thought they were your borders. We could cooperate to
build a nice picket fence and hire some millions of your cheap Mexican
labour to guard it.

Hal
deemsbill@aol.com - 23 Jun 2007 13:10 GMT
> > "Hal" <SpamTh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> build a nice picket fence and hire some millions of your cheap Mexican
> labour to guard it.

   You laugh, but the Mexicans are spreading north. It won't be too
long before they're flooding Canada. Then you can hire your own cheap
labor.

> Hal- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Conway Caine - 23 Jun 2007 21:47 GMT
>> > "Hal" <SpamTh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> long before they're flooding Canada. Then you can hire your own cheap
> labor.

Many here in Charlotte labor long and hard, normally in family groups.
Many of them save their money and open businesses.
They feed and clothe their families.
They provide shelter for them.
They prosper.
deemsbill@aol.com - 24 Jun 2007 02:41 GMT
> <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> They provide shelter for them.
> They prosper.

  I don't have a problem with them....they work because they haven't
been ruined by the welfare system yet.

- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -
Conway Caine - 24 Jun 2007 19:19 GMT
>> <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
>   I don't have a problem with them....they work because they haven't
> been ruined by the welfare system yet.

And many of them come out of South Mexico where things are really, really
bad.
They see working in America as truly a gift from God.
deemsbill@aol.com - 24 Jun 2007 21:30 GMT
> <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
> bad.
> They see working in America as truly a gift from God.

   I read somewhere that the economic divide at our southern border
is the highest in the world. As long as Mexico is a shithole, we're
going to have people wanting to come across.
  On a related note, my church does mission work at an orphanage in
the Dominican Republic. Nearby, there is a dump where several thousand
Haitians live. Every once in awhile, the Dominican Army sweeps through
and rounds up as many as they can to deport them. They always come
back. It speaks volumes that living in a Dominican dump is preferable
to living in their own country.

- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -
Conway Caine - 25 Jun 2007 17:47 GMT
>> <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>
[quoted text clipped - 78 lines]
> back. It speaks volumes that living in a Dominican dump is preferable
> to living in their own country.

It gets worse, the further south you go in Mexico.
I visited the Yucatan peninsula recently.
The standard of living there was appalling.
I suppose the Mexican government feels that since most of he impoverished
citizens are only Mayans..................
Hal - 25 Jun 2007 16:42 GMT
> <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> They provide shelter for them.
> They prosper.

Sshhhh! We want them to come to Canada.
Conway Caine - 25 Jun 2007 18:11 GMT
>> <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
>
> Sshhhh! We want them to come to Canada.

It's a little chilly up there for South Mexicans.
It gets HOT in the Yucatan.
deemsbill@aol.com - 25 Jun 2007 18:21 GMT
> >> <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
> It's a little chilly up there for South Mexicans.
> It gets HOT in the Yucatan.

  They seem to be adapting to the cold quite well.

- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -
Adam Whyte-Settlar - 26 Jun 2007 06:14 GMT
>>> <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
> It's a little chilly up there for South Mexicans.
> It gets HOT in the Yucatan.

Send them over here.
Can't get any staff for love nor money in the tropics.
Capacity constraints are strangling the Aussie economy.
deemsbill@aol.com - 26 Jun 2007 13:00 GMT
> >>> <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 58 lines]
> Can't get any staff for love nor money in the tropics.
> Capacity constraints are strangling the Aussie economy.

   Shoulda let those boat people in.....

- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -
Conway Caine - 26 Jun 2007 15:17 GMT
>>>> <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
> Can't get any staff for love nor money in the tropics.
> Capacity constraints are strangling the Aussie economy.

The Mexicans might want to be a little closer to family and friends, Oz
being the other side of the world..
Andrew Swallow - 26 Jun 2007 22:12 GMT
> "Adam Whyte-Settlar" <none@none> wrote in message
[snip]

>> Send them over here.
>> Can't get any staff for love nor money in the tropics.
>> Capacity constraints are strangling the Aussie economy.
>
> The Mexicans might want to be a little closer to family and friends, Oz
> being the other side of the world..

Distance wise possible.  Time wise if they have been granted a visa
they do not have the 4 day walk through the desert.

Andrew Swallow
Peter Skelton - 26 Jun 2007 22:37 GMT
>> "Adam Whyte-Settlar" <none@none> wrote in message
>[snip]
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>Distance wise possible.  Time wise if they have been granted a visa
>they do not have the 4 day walk through the desert.

We fly Jamaicans up to Canada to work on the crops and fly them
home (it's cheaper and more responsive than slower modes). On a
three week contract, they clear five dollars an hour, it can't be
less than that on shorter, after which they've covered their
flight and get seven. Room, board and warm clothing is included.

Something similar should be possible from Mexico to OZ.

(The numbers are six years old, minimum wage has increased since,
which would affect them.)

Peter Skelton
Jack Linthicum - 26 Jun 2007 22:52 GMT
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:12:15 +0100, Andrew Swallow
>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> Peter Skelton

This is about a year old but gives a very good picture of the
situation, the Mexicans are about half of the immigrants and the
numbers have been pretty steady for many years. I can remember when a
similar situation existed in Brazil and other South American countries
and the Japanese came into the picture. Now the Japanese wnat all
their lost population back.

Give and take across the border
1 in 7 Mexican workers migrates -- most send money home

Carolyn Lochhead, Chronicle Washington Bureau

Sunday, May 21, 2006

(05-21) 04:00 PDT Washington -- The current migration of Mexicans and
Central Americans to the United States is one of the largest diasporas
in modern history, experts say.

Roughly 10 percent of Mexico's population of about 107 million is now
living in the United States, estimates show. About 15 percent of
Mexico's labor force is working in the United States. One in every 7
Mexican workers migrates to the United States.

Mass migration from Mexico began more than a century ago. It is deeply
embedded in the history, culture and economies of both nations. The
current wave began with Mexico's economic crisis in 1982, accelerated
sharply in the 1990s with the U.S. economic boom, and today has
reached record dimensions.

It is unlikely to ebb anytime soon.

"There is no scenario outside of catastrophic attack on the United
States that would make immigration stop," said Demetrios
Papademetriou, president of the Migration Policy Institute, a
nonpartisan think tank.

The fierce immigration debate now under way in Congress focuses almost
exclusively on the U.S. side of the equation. Senate legislation
attempts to reduce the flow by hardening the border, sanctioning
employers who hire illegal migrants, and expanding avenues for legal
immigration. The House passed a bill focused solely on U.S.
enforcement.

Yet whatever the United States decides about immigration will have a
huge impacton its closest neighbors, especially Mexico.

What happens in Mexico, by turn, has a big effect on immigration flows
to the United States. Those events include a hotly contested election
six weeks away that pits a leftist populist against a market-oriented
heir to President Vicente Fox.

"We want Mexico to look like Canada," said Stephen Haber, director of
Stanford University's Social Science History Institute and a Latin
America specialist at the Hoover Institution. "That's the optimal for
the United States. We never talk about instability in Canada. We're
never concerned about a Canadian security problem. Because Canada is
wealthy and stable. It's so wealthy and stable we barely know it's
there most of the time. That's the optimal for Mexico: a wealthy and
stable country."

What isn't wanted, Haber said, "is an unstable country on your border,
especially an unstable country that hates you."

Three-quarters of the estimated 12 million illegal migrants in the
United States come from Mexico and Central America. Mexicans make up
56 percent of the unauthorized U.S. migrant population, according to
the Pew Hispanic Center. Another 22 percent come from elsewhere in
Latin America, mainly Central America and the Andean countries. These
same countries send many of the half-million new illegal immigrants
who arrive each year.

Migration is profoundly altering Mexico and Central America. Entire
rural communities are nearly bereft of working-age men. The town of
Tendeparacua, in the Mexican state of Michoacan, had 6,000 residents
in 1985, and now has 600, according to news reports. In five Mexican
states, the money migrants send home exceeds locally generated income,
one study found.

Last year, Mexico received a record $20 billion in remittances from
migrant workers. That is equal to Mexico's 2004 income from oil
exports and dwarfing tourism revenue.

Arriving in small monthly transfers of $100 and $200, remittances have
formed a vast river of "migra-dollars" that now exceeds lending by
multilateral development agencies and foreign direct investment
combined, according to the Inter-American Development Bank.

The money Mexican migrants send home almost equals the U.S. foreign
aid budget for the entire world, said Arturo Valenzuela, director of
the Center for Latin American Studies at Georgetown University and
former head of Inter-American Affairs at the National Security Council
during the Clinton administration.

"Where are we going to come up with $20 billion?" to ensure stability
in Mexico, Valenzuela asked at a recent conference. "Has anybody in
the raging immigration debate over the last few weeks thought, could
it be good for the fundamental interests of the United States ... to
serve as something of a safety valve for those that can't be employed
in Mexico?"

Migration has caused significant social disruption in Mexico, though
research is scant, said B. Lindsay Lowell, director of policy studies
at the Institute for the Study of International Migration at
Georgetown University.

"We do know that it can break up families, and has done so in many
traditional sending areas," he said. "The husband comes to the United
States and stays for many years. His wife is on her own with the
children. In some cases, the couple comes to the United States and
leaves their children behind with relatives."

The migration is driven in part, experts say, by the large income
differentials between the two nations. A rural Latin American migrant
may earn 10 times in the United States what he or she can earn at
home.

But an equally intense pull comes from U.S. employers, including
private households, who employ large numbers of illegal immigrants as
nannies, housekeepers and caregivers, said Jeffery Passel, a senior
demographer at the Pew Hispanic Center.

The U.S. information economy has created a split labor market, one
with a powerful demand for high- and low-skilled workers, economists
say.

While U.S. professionals toil in office buildings, others come to
clean their offices, prepare their food and provide the host of
services that support modern life. In a bygone era, teenagers, women
and rural U.S. migrants filled these jobs. The U.S. labor market
offers opportunities to "a younger, vibrant labor force and Mexican
immigration has been filling that void," said Armand Peschard-
Sverdrup, director of the Mexico Project for the Center for Strategic
and International Studies.

U.S. demand has driven a record increase in wages for newly arrived
immigrants, about 30 percent between 1994 and 2000, according to
Lowell. The migration has also raised average wages in Mexico by 8 to
9 percent, economists estimate. As the first U.S. Baby Boomers turn 60
this year, this demand is only expected to intensify.

Once migration starts, social and economic networks sustain and fuel
it, which explains in part why flows have not fallen despite solid
economic growth in Mexico.

Most illegal immigrants from Mexico and Central America have not
completed high school, although education levels are rising. Harvard
economist George Borjas found that in 2000, 63 percent of Mexican
immigrants had not finished high school.

New immigrants are much more broadly dispersed than previous waves. A
lower percentage are going to the traditional magnet states such as
California and New York. The fastest-growing destinations for new
arrivals, according to demographer William Frey of the Brookings
Institution, are North Carolina, Tennessee, Georgia, Nevada, Arizona,
Iowa and Nebraska.

This geographic dispersal may account in part for rising public
discontent over immigration, many believe. Migrant workers have also
shifted from the fields to the cities, working in hotels, restaurants
and construction, where they are more visible to the public.

Mexico is aging too, which will eventually cause migration to ebb. Its
population trails the U.S. age profile by 30 years. By then,
demographers expect Mexico may be importing labor.

While migration has long served as a safety valve for Mexico, the
current wave may also be hindering the political and economic reforms
that most agree are needed -- in education, taxes, energy, agriculture
and law, where systemic corruption is a serious barrier to growth.

"The good news is that a million Mexicans were on the street recently
demanding good jobs and good government and justice," Roger Noriega,
former assistant secretary of state for Western Hemisphere affairs,
told a recent panel at the American Enterprise Institute. "The bad
news is they were marching in someone else's country. Every day,
thousands of Mexico's most industrious people leave their families
behind ... leading many to wonder why Mexico's political class is not
capable of creating economic opportunity for its citizens in a land
rich in mineral wealth, hydrocarbons, agricultural potential and human
capital."

The United States is not the only country that shares a long land
border with a poorer nation. So does Germany, with Poland. France once
did with Spain. Many point to Europe's unification as a better way to
integrate the North American economies without disruptive migration
flows.

Before the European Union opened its labor markets, its wealthier
countries invested billions of dollars to develop the economies of its
poorer members -- at the time, Spain, Portugal and Greece -- that had
been sending migrants abroad. Since then, Spain has become the
economic engine of Europe, and this month opened its labor market to
Poland. The Irish, who once fled economic calamity by the millions to
the United States, are today having their gas pumped by Eastern
Europeans.

Many contend that U.S. investment in Mexico would be less expensive
and more effective than a wall. Poorly developed Mexican credit
markets make it all but impossible for a low-income family to get a
mortgage.

If, when the North American Free Trade Agreement was signed in 1994,
"the United States had approached Mexico and its integration into the
North American economy in the same way that the European Union
approached Spain and Portugal in 1986, we wouldn't have an immigration
problem now," said Princeton University sociologist Douglas Massey, co-
director of the Mexican Migration Project, a survey of Mexican
migrants.

Given the predominance of Mexicans and Central Americans in illegal
immigration to the United States, Papademetriou wonders why the
Senate's guest worker program would be open to all comers, if it is
intended to provide temporary workers for the U.S. market.

"If 60 percent of our illegal immigration comes from a single country,
and another 20 percent comes through that country, logic would say the
vast majority of visas should go to the country of origin," he said.
"The last thing you would do is create a global temporary worker
program, as if somehow we should need Bangladeshis or Russians to pick
our fruits and vegetables."

Targeted visas could also leverage Mexican cooperation in undertaking
politically difficult reforms, and would be more likely to keep guest
workers temporary. "You keep it a neighborhood project," Papademetriou
said, "so you have people going back and forth visiting their
families, not spending thousands of dollars to come from all over the
Earth. People who already have a network in place that will support
them in the United States, that will help them find jobs."

Given that Mexico is the second-largest U.S. trading partner, the two
nations' economic integration is well under way, and labor is part of
that, experts say.

Even a new wall -- already under construction on the border with
Mexico with bits of triple fencing here and pieces of National Guard
units there -- has not stopped migrants entering yet and probably
works more to trap them in the United States, many believe.

"These are human beings," said Audrey Singer, an immigration expert at
the Brookings Institution. "It's not like a water faucet we can turn
on and off. I think of managing them better -- because it's very hard
to stop them." http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/05/21/MNGFQIVNAF1.DTL&type=
printable

Robert - 27 Jun 2007 21:57 GMT
On Jun 26, 5:52 pm, Jack Linthicum <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

> This geographic dispersal may account in part for rising public
> discontent over immigration, many believe. Migrant workers have also
> shifted from the fields to the cities, working in hotels, restaurants
> and construction, where they are more visible to the public.

In regards to immigration and the Mexican-American Wall, here's an
interesting quote:

"Mexico is a very poor country," stated Seok Dae Jo, "whose citizens
will literally risk their lives to cross a hostile, dangerous border
seeking employment in the United States. The Americans understand this
and that is why they are building this great wall between the two
countries: not to keep them out, but to control the flow of Mexicans
across the border. That way, when the ruling class feels threatened by
any opposition from the middle class, they can open up that flow, like
a spigot, and diminish the value of American labor by flooding their
market with Mexicans who are willing to work for substandard wages.
This will undermine the middle class economically and politically.
After all, it's hard to be active in government when your house is
being foreclosed and your family is about to become homeless. Slowly,
in a series of well timed moves where they repeatedly open and then
close that great wall, the very wealthy will use their political clout
to beat down and meld the middle class into the lower class, turning a
three-tiered society into only two."

Quoted from:

www.TheDragonOption.com

For more about the Mexican-American Wall, see topic:
Conway Caine - 28 Jun 2007 01:41 GMT
>> "Adam Whyte-Settlar" <none@none> wrote in message
> [snip]
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Distance wise possible.  Time wise if they have been granted a visa
> they do not have the 4 day walk through the desert.

A rather deadly four day walk through the desert.
Adam Whyte-Settlar - 27 Jun 2007 08:39 GMT
>>>>> <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 66 lines]
> The Mexicans might want to be a little closer to family and friends, Oz
> being the other side of the world..

?
Distance is measured in hours in Australia. We take planes like other people
take taxis.
Mexico is only 12 hours from Brisbane airport.
Conway Caine - 28 Jun 2007 01:44 GMT
>>>>>> <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 73 lines]
> people take taxis.
> Mexico is only 12 hours from Brisbane airport.

I can see three hundred or so Mayan Indians lining up to purchase airline
tickets to OZ.
Adam Whyte-Settlar - 28 Jun 2007 12:59 GMT
>>>>>>> <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 77 lines]
> I can see three hundred or so Mayan Indians lining up to purchase airline
> tickets to OZ.

Better than getting beaten to death in Texas.
Conway Caine - 28 Jun 2007 15:12 GMT
>>>>>>>> <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 79 lines]
>
> Better than getting beaten to death in Texas.

Some day the full story of the horrors occurring in Arizona, New Mexico, and
Texas may be told.
Jack Linthicum - 28 Jun 2007 15:37 GMT
> >>>>>>>> <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 82 lines]
> Some day the full story of the horrors occurring in Arizona, New Mexico, and
> Texas may be told.

Or what the ones that stayed behind found on the carefully regulated
trash dump.

Mexican scavengers
But in Monterrey, Mexico, something different happened. When the city
built its new- garbage composting plant to replace the dump, it
substituted hand sorting for machines and gave the job of extracting
recyclables to former scavengers. Although these people are not the
most reliable of municipal employees, they are at least used to work
that many people would despise. And the city makes a healthy saving
from sales of recycled materials. The scavengers in turn benefit from
regular income, more hygienic working conditions and a roof over their
heads when it rains.

and

An additional issue in Mexico, which has no contemporary analogue in
the U.S., is that
traditional recycling of packaging by scavengers (pepenadores), who
work and often live on landfills,
poses serious health hazards to the people involved. The problem is
directly linked to packaging;
most of the materials that are worth scavenging from urban trash today
are packages. The practice of
landfill scavenging, common in developing countries today (and in the
U.S. in the nineteenth
century; see Melosi, 1981, or Rathje and Murphy 1992), is one of the
worst aspects of the waste
management process from either a humanitarian or environmentalist
perspective.
Moreover, scavenging is not even, in Mexico, very efficient at
recovering all the recyclable
materials in the waste stream. Data collected for the project on waste
management in Mexico City
implied that scavenging recovery rates were lower than those
achievable through modest formal
recycling programs. However, landfill scavenging would remain a public
health disaster and an
affront to human dignity even if it were efficient at material
recovery.
The desirable solution to the problem, converting the landfill
scavengers to employees of a
formal recycling program, is both expensive and politically difficult
to enact. To date such a
conversion has been carried out only in Ciudad Juarez and in the
Federal District. Much more of the
same needs to be done throughout the country. Although our study
offered no formal analysis
leading to this conclusion, it appears that the problems of the
pepenadores are the most urgent
impacts of packaging waste in Mexico today.
Conway Caine - 29 Jun 2007 15:05 GMT
<Snip>

I cannot help but believe many of problems in Mexico stems from the fact
that the more Indian one looks, the greater the discrimination one endures.
Poverty appears to follow brown skins the world around, especially if white
skins are nearby.
Jack Linthicum - 29 Jun 2007 15:37 GMT
> <Snip>
>
> I cannot help but believe many of problems in Mexico stems from the fact
> that the more Indian one looks, the greater the discrimination one endures.
> Poverty appears to follow brown skins the world around, especially if white
> skins are nearby.

Pure Spanish Blood, neater and easier to explain than skin color

Over time, settlers were segregated into two social divisions; the
Criollos (pure Spanish blood), and the Mestizos (Spanish and native
blood). The powerful land-owning Criollos fought the Crown over taxes
and other unpopular rules; their decade-long rebellion was the
catalyst for independence in 1821 and they subsequently became the
ruling class of Mexico.
Adam Whyte-Settlar - 28 Jun 2007 16:08 GMT
>>> I can see three hundred or so Mayan Indians lining up to purchase
>>> airline tickets to OZ.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Some day the full story of the horrors occurring in Arizona, New Mexico,
> and Texas may be told.

Oh they already are - you just need to be able to speak Spanish.

Which reminds me - how's the old language lessons coming along amigo?
I've been brushing up myself lately as I hope to be in Barcelona in a few
weeks time.
Vince - 28 Jun 2007 16:37 GMT
>>>> I can see three hundred or so Mayan Indians lining up to purchase
>>>> airline tickets to OZ.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> I've been brushing up myself lately as I hope to be in Barcelona in a few
> weeks time.

are you studying Catalan ?

Vince
Cory Bhreckan - 28 Jun 2007 15:28 GMT
>>>>>>>> <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 62 lines]
>
> Better than getting beaten to death in Texas.

Nonsense, they're much more likely to cook to death locked in the back
of tractor trailer parked in the desert.

Signature

"For the stronger we our houses do build,
The less chance we have of being killed." - William Topaz McGonagall

Conway Caine - 23 Jun 2007 21:45 GMT
>> >> Aw come on now.
>> >> You know you want to join the Union and have your very own Senators
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> build a nice picket fence and hire some millions of your cheap Mexican
> labour to guard it.

None have made it to Canada, I take it.
But in their defense, I've never seen a harder working lot.
The vast majority of Hispano-Americanos are decent people.
Andrew Chaplin - 24 Jun 2007 00:25 GMT
>> Our borders? We thought they were your borders. We could cooperate to
>> build a nice picket fence and hire some millions of your cheap Mexican
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> But in their defense, I've never seen a harder working lot.
> The vast majority of Hispano-Americanos are decent people.

Actually, we have a guest worker programme for the agricultural sector that
operates in conjunction with agencies in Mexico. But we also have refugees
from Central and South America who have settled. They have integrated pretty
well.
Signature

Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

La N - 24 Jun 2007 00:30 GMT
>>> Our borders? We thought they were your borders. We could cooperate to
>>> build a nice picket fence and hire some millions of your cheap Mexican
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> refugees from Central and South America who have settled. They have
> integrated pretty well.

Indeed.  One of my favourite things to do when I go to a place like
Vancouver is take in cultural events sponsored by latinamerican (and other)
refugee and immigrant groups.  It gives one a chance to partake of  foreign
food and drink, learn new dances, enjoy exotic music and - especially for
me - the chance to practice my poor Spanish.  Unfortunately Spanish, "the
loving tongue", has pushed French out of my head ...%)

- nilita
Conway Caine - 24 Jun 2007 02:25 GMT
>>> Our borders? We thought they were your borders. We could cooperate to
>>> build a nice picket fence and hire some millions of your cheap Mexican
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> refugees from Central and South America who have settled. They have
> integrated pretty well.

They will if people treat them with respect and honor their dignity.
Ray O'Hara - 16 Jun 2007 23:50 GMT
> > > Would you not think a proven two hundred years of usage might make it
> > > acceptable?
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> new either, as it was being done by Americans in Norway, Sweden,
> England and France (at least) in the early 70s, and continues today.

no american would ever wear a maple leaf decal.
but enjoy your myths.
Hal - 21 Jun 2007 15:05 GMT
> > > > Would you not think a proven two hundred years of usage might make it
> > > > acceptable?
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> no american would ever wear a maple leaf decal.
> but enjoy your myths.

I didn't say decals, I said pins and patches. Decals apparently fall
off too easily, or is that the myth you refer to?
William Black - 15 Jun 2007 13:08 GMT
> Yes, the silliest expression of all is "USian" which we often see as
> posted by pogues in these newsgroups...
>
> Who think they're being cute and sassy.

Nope.

Cute and sassy is 'Septics'.

Signature

William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time,  like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

Conway Caine - 15 Jun 2007 14:58 GMT
>> Yes, the silliest expression of all is "USian" which we often see as
>> posted by pogues in these newsgroups...
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Cute and sassy is 'Septics'.

And another Cockney rears his head......
William Black - 15 Jun 2007 15:05 GMT
>>> Yes, the silliest expression of all is "USian" which we often see as
>>> posted by pogues in these newsgroups...
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> And another Cockney rears his head......

Nope.

But keep trying.

Signature

William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time,  like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

Conway Caine - 16 Jun 2007 02:42 GMT
>>>> Yes, the silliest expression of all is "USian" which we often see as
>>>> posted by pogues in these newsgroups...
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> But keep trying.

But it was rhyming slang, was it not?
(Yes, I realize that would not make you a Cockney. I alluded)
William Black - 16 Jun 2007 09:33 GMT
>>>>> Yes, the silliest expression of all is "USian" which we often see as
>>>>> posted by pogues in these newsgroups...
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> But it was rhyming slang, was it not?
> (Yes, I realize that would not make you a Cockney. I alluded)

Yes.

Signature

William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time,  like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

D. Spencer Hines - 15 Jun 2007 17:54 GMT
No one here is telling Canadians they can't call themselves Americans.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Conway Caine - 15 Jun 2007 14:55 GMT
Well, it fills their days with some excitement........

> Yes, the silliest expression of all is "USian" which we often see as
> posted by pogues in these newsgroups...
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>> Auld Bob says we ain't supposed to use the term "American".
>> Wonder if Auld Bob would have told George Washington that?
Andrew Chaplin - 15 Jun 2007 10:19 GMT
>> "The name of American, which belongs to you, in your national capacity,
>> must always exalt the just pride of Patriotism, more than any appellation
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Auld Bob says we ain't supposed to use the term "American".
> Wonder if Auld Bob would have told George Washington that?

While Washington was trying to establish a common identity for the former 13
Colonies, he was appropriating a term on which others also had a call. The
United Empire Loyalists driven out of the U.S. into the Canadas and the
Maritimes were just as "American."
Signature

Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

redc1c4 - 15 Jun 2007 10:24 GMT
> >> "The name of American, which belongs to you, in your national capacity,
> >> must always exalt the just pride of Patriotism, more than any appellation
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> United Empire Loyalists driven out of the U.S. into the Canadas and the
> Maritimes were just as "American."

does that mean you'll be applying for annexation shortly?

redc1c4,
tossing out the first white smoke of summer %-)
Signature

"Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear
considerable watching."

Army Officer's Guide

Andrew Chaplin - 15 Jun 2007 10:33 GMT
>> >> "The name of American, which belongs to you, in your national capacity,
>> >> must always exalt the just pride of Patriotism, more than any
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> does that mean you'll be applying for annexation shortly?

Mmmmm... no.
Signature

Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

Ray O'Hara - 15 Jun 2007 14:56 GMT
> >> While Washington was trying to establish a common identity for the former
> >> 13
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Mmmmm... no.

the loyalists became canadians.

as i've mentioned before, when omar the bomb maker asks "are there any
americans on board this plane"
you guys don't stand up then.
Conway Caine - 15 Jun 2007 15:00 GMT
>>> >> "The name of American, which belongs to you, in your national
>>> >> capacity,
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Mmmmm... no.

How 'bout the Green Card?
Canceling that application as well?
deemsbill@aol.com - 15 Jun 2007 14:25 GMT
On Jun 15, 5:19 am, "Andrew Chaplin"
<ab.chap...@yourfinger.rogers.com> wrote:

> >> "The name of American, which belongs to you, in your national capacity,
> >> must always exalt the just pride of Patriotism, more than any