Gates Says Iraq Troop Surge Only Starting To Bite
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D. Spencer Hines - 16 Jun 2007 19:11 GMT A realistic and cogent interim status report from Bob Gates, David Petraeus and Ryan Crocker.
Far, far different from the Chicken Little Hysterical Defeatist Ramblings of Gans and other lesser pogues without the law in these precincts -- including Horsellman Rarebit....
Singularly devoid of Bush Derangement Syndrome as well.
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas ------------------------------------------------------------------
Gates says Iraq troop surge only starting to bite
by Jim Mannion Jun 16, 2007
Agence France Presse
US Defence Secretary Robert Gates said Saturday that a troop surge in Iraq is only starting to have its full impact and that it is too soon to tell whether conditions will be ripe by September for decisions on US force levels.
The US commander in Iraq, General David Petraeus, said that the latest troop reinforcements to arrive in theatre had enabled the military to begin major operations against Al-Qaeda rear-bases outside the capital.
Excellent! Critically Important. Go After The Hives. -- DSH
"While I indicated yesterday that I think we'll see some trends and be able to point in some directions by September, the full impact of the surge is really just beginning to be felt," Gates said.
Gates has held out the possibility of US troop reductions if the surge succeeds in calming a wave of sectarian violence in Baghdad by September, but he was more cautious Saturday during a brief unannounced visit to Baghdad.
"I actually think it is premature to answer that question or make that judgement," he told reporters.
"I think we have to wait and see where we are in September to see what follows the report that the ambassador and the general turn in."
Petraeus and US ambassador Ryan Crocker are supposed to report to a sceptical Congress in September on whether the surge is working or whether an alternative strategy is needed.
Gates was to meet Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki later to press for more rapid progress by his Shiite-led government in reaching out to the disenchanted Sunni former elite.
He is the third senior US official to deliver the same message over the past week, following Deputy Defence Secretary John Negroponte, the former US ambassador, and Admiral William Fallon, commander of US forces in the Middle East.
Excellent! Fox Fallon has stepped into the Grand Strategy role for which he was chosen. -- DSH
"We are pressing hard on those (reconciliation benchmarks)," said the US ambassador, who joined Gates and Petraeus at a news conference.
Ryan Crocker, said ambassador, is an excellent man too -- adding just the right talents to the Leadership mix. -- DSH
"The Iraqi government has been pushing itself. The progress has been frustratingly slow.
Indeed. -- DSH
"We will see where we are by September. We will report at that time honestly as to what has been achieved and what hasn't," said Crocker.
Gates, who visited troops at a joint security post in Baghdad, said there had been successes in reducing violence in Anbar province west of the capital, although security had deteriorated in Diyala province to its north.
"In terms of the security situation, as I say we've got two months, three months to go. There are some positive trends, there are some negative trends," he said.
Petraeus said it was possible to make progress over the next few months.
"And then we'll see how long we'll sustain the surge, and how long we can sustain the surge, because those considerations enter into it as well."
Indeed. And if the DEFEATISTS at HOME pull the plug, as they did in the Vietnam War, the entire Middle East will be in deep kimchee. -- DSH
Asked whether he had enough troops, Petraeus said: "There has never been a military commander in history who would not like to have more of something or other.
"The fact is frankly we have all that our country is going to provide us in terms of combat forces. That is really it right now between this theatre and Afghanistan."
US troops levels in Iraq swelled to 155,000 over the past week as the last of five additional combat brigades deployed, US commanders said.
Petraeus said "fairly large coordinated offensive operations" had been launched against Al-Qaeda in areas outside Baghdad in the previous 24 hours.
Excellent! Exterminate most -- take a few prisoners for INTERROGATION. Let the Iraqis do most of the interrogations of those captured who are not of particular interest to the Americans -- and don't ask the Iraqis about their methods. -- DSH
"We have been doing what we might be calling shaping operations in a lot of these areas, doing intelligence gathering, putting in some special operators, going in but then coming out," he said.
SHAPE, DESTROY, COOPT, BUILD, HOLD. -- DSH
"And now for the first time are we going to some key areas in the belt from which Al-Qaeda has sallied forth with car bombs and additional fighters and so forth." -------------------------------
DSH
Semper Fidelis
D. Spencer Hines - 16 Jun 2007 20:48 GMT More in the same vein.
DSH ---------------------------------------------
US Launches New Offensive in Iraq
16 June 2007
By LOLITA C. BALDOR Associated Press Writer
BAGHDAD (AP) - The U.S. military, which just days ago completed its latest troop buildup in Iraq, has launched a large offensive operation in several al-Qaida strongholds around Baghdad, the top U.S. commander said Saturday.
Gen. David Petraeus said the operation began in the last 24 hours and will put forces into key areas surrounding Baghdad that, according to intelligence, al-Qaida is using to base some of its car bomb operations.
Excellent! Exterminate most -- take a few prisoners for INTERROGATION. Let the Iraqis do most of the interrogations of those captured who are not of particular interest to the Americans -- and don't ask the Iraqis about their methods. -- DSH
Petraeus, who met with Defense Secretary Robert Gates at a morning breakfast, also said that he doesn't have all the American troops he might want, but he knows he's got all he's going to get.
"There's never been a military commander in history who wouldn't like to have more of something or other—that characterizes all of us here," he told reporters traveling with Gates. "The fact is frankly that we have all that our country is going to provide us in terms of combat forces. That is really it right now."
He said the buildup of nearly 30,000 additional forces that has just been completed allowed him to launch the latest assault. The move, he said, is allowing him to send operations for the first time into "a number of areas around Baghdad, in particular to go into areas that were sanctuaries in the past of al-Qaida."
They must not be allowed any sanctuaries. -- DSH
American and Iraqi forces have absolute control over only 40 percent of the capital, according to U.S. officials.
He said: "Our job now, frankly, along with the job of our Iraqi counterparts ... is to do everything that we can with the additional forces that we have."
Underscoring the challenges ahead, Gates arrival Friday night for his unannounced visit, brought him to a city all but shut down by a security lockdown. Iraqi leaders imposed a strict curfew this week after a bombing of an important shrine north of the city.
Reminds me of my time in Saigon. -- DSH
It is Gates' fourth trip to Iraq since he took over the Defense Department last December. He was meeting with military and political leaders to assess progress, and to continue to urge the Iraqi government to move more quickly toward reconciliation and stabilizing their country.
Petraeus provided few details of the new offensive, but said he believes it will help the military make some progress in Iraq, where the war is in its fifth year and U.S. casualties have surpassed 3,500.
Petraeus SHOULD be providing only a VERY few DETAILS at this point. -- DSH
Gates and his military leaders are under intense pressure from Congress and the American public to begin to show real progress in Iraq so that troop withdrawals can start.
There are currently about 155,000 U.S. troops in Iraq.
At the same time, Gates and U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker expressed continuing frustration with the lack of political progress by the Iraqis to meet a number of benchmarks set by the U.S., including oil revenue-sharing legislation and political reconciliation.
"We are pressing hard on those," said Crocker. "The Iraqi government is pressing itself. Progress has been frustratingly slow. We will see where we are by September."
Indeed. -- DSH
After a meeting with Gates, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's office said he had told the U.S. defense secretary Iraqi leaders are making "persistent efforts" and have "a chance" to achieve national political reconciliation.
Al-Maliki also pointed out that Iraqi security forces generally headed off any greater explosion of Shiite-Sunni sectarian violence in Iraq after last Wednesday's bombing at the holy Shiite shrine of al-Askariya in the city of Samarra, his office said.
During his visit, Gates also stopped by the al-Madain Joint Security Station Saturday morning in southeast Baghdad, traveling under tight security, and wearing body armor. His helicopter sent up a cloud of dust as it set down in the rectangular, walled station in the largely Shiite enclave of Karada, a relatively stable area of the city.
Gates heard from both Iraqi and U.S. military officials, who talked about the effort to put as many as 60 of the security outposts in the Baghdad region. There are about 27 joint security stations, which are staffed by Iraqi police and army soldiers as well as U.S. troops. And there are about the same number of smaller combat outposts.
Col. Jeffrey Bannister, commander of the 2nd Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division which has forces at the station, said the facility was a model for Baghdad and "has a very good fusion effect amongst the Iraqis."
He added, however, that his troops have faced a lot of newer armor- piercing roadside bombs. "We are at the tip of the spear for that," he told reporters who traveled to the station with Gates.
Gates thanked the Iraqi forces there for their service and expressed sympathy for those who have been wounded and killed. "They are serving the interests of the Iraqi people," Gates said.
Gates is the third top U.S. official to travel to Baghdad this week to press the Iraqi government to move more quickly toward political reconciliation and other vital reforms that many see as critical to putting a cap on the violence.
The top U.S. commander in the Middle East, Adm. William Fallon carried that message to the Iraqis last weekend, and John Negroponte, the No. 2 State Department official, reinforced it in a visit midweek.
Gates also was cautious in his assessment of the progress in the war. He's to give Congress an update next month, and a full review in September, of how well the buildup ordered by President Bush has worked.
"It remains to be seen how much progress will be made over the course of the next two or three months," Gates said, adding "There are some positive trends, there are some negative trends." --------------------------------------------------------------
Bingo!
A far cry from the line pedaled by the Chicken Little Hysterical Defeatist Ramblings of Gans and other lesser pogues without the law in these precincts -- including Horsellman Rarebit....
Singularly devoid of Bush Derangement Syndrome as well.
SHAPE, DESTROY, COOPT, BUILD, HOLD.
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
dapra - 17 Jun 2007 00:21 GMT > A realistic and cogent interim status report from Bob Gates, David Petraeus > and Ryan Crocker. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Gates says Iraq troop surge only starting to bite Yes, it starts biting Bush in the butt. But no biting will deter him from trying of get the oil. Hang him in The Hague would be the only way to cure him.
David E. Powell - 17 Jun 2007 05:05 GMT > > A realistic and cogent interim status report from Bob Gates, David Petraeus > > and Ryan Crocker. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > from trying of get the oil. Hang him in The Hague would be the only way > to cure him Um, dude... if Bush wanted the oil in Iraq so bad, why do the Iraqis have it and not the US? Oh wait, because your argument is a meaningless canard that you know to be false. OK. See you.
dapra - 18 Jun 2007 16:11 GMT >>>A realistic and cogent interim status report from Bob Gates, David Petraeus >>>and Ryan Crocker. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Um, dude... if Bush wanted the oil in Iraq so bad, why do the Iraqis > have it and not the US? One can't just stash the loot into a getaway car. Oil fields are difficult to transport to Texas.
Bush should have attacked Switzerland. It had no more or less relation to Al qaeda, than Iraq. But probably he could have generated just as many or even more 'terrorists'. One of the real impetus behind the invasion. Imagine all the 'terrorists' infiltrating from Germany, France, Italy. And of course the loot would have been easily transferable. Just empty the banks vaults, and ship the gold to Crawford.
One may say the oil fields of Iraq are a lot more valuable, and it gives the advantage to the Bush regime to strangle the world economy at will. That's true too. Maybe that's why, they attacked Iraq not Switzerland, in spite of the difficulty taking possessions of the loot.
>Oh wait, because your argument is a > meaningless canard that you know to be false. OK. See you. Tiglath - 17 Jun 2007 06:21 GMT >A realistic and cogent interim status report from Bob Gates, David Petraeus >and Ryan Crocker.
> it is too soon to tell whether conditions will be ripe by September for > decisions on US force levels. Translation: The Surge is not working.
Trust Mr. Hines bringing a declaration of lack of results as "encouraging signs."
As if we had not seen those before.
The hawks war shares are penny stocks and lining up on the chute that will take them to Enron stock level.
Mr. Hines is just bracing himself.
Mark my words: When September comes, Mr. Hines will still be saying and quoting people saying that more time is needed because things are beginning to jell, almost. And that we shouldn't give up when things are going well, well almost.
We've seen it all before.
Mr. Hines was taught to never surrender, but he missed the class after that when exceptions were cited. Hence, Mr. Hines will walk into a cannonade, a fusillade, and ambuscade, or more like it, into a dilluvium of cream pies, as he does here often, figuratively, and proudly wear on his face more egg than is is becoming to an officer, without compunction.
He surely has come up a cropper on Iraq -- four and and a half years AND counting.
His brave act in the face of adversity shows he is as stubborn as Bush, but little else.
Adam Whyte-Settlar - 17 Jun 2007 08:57 GMT > We've seen it all before. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > of cream pies, as he does here often, figuratively, and proudly wear on > his face more egg than is is becoming to an officer... Quite - I'm sure there are times when he must really miss the catering corps.
William Black - 17 Jun 2007 10:14 GMT >> We've seen it all before. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Quite - I'm sure there are times when he must really miss the catering > corps. The Catering corps!
They'd never be daft enough to let him near food preparation, too many would die...
He was a housing officer.
 Signature William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea.
La N - 17 Jun 2007 14:11 GMT >>> We've seen it all before. >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > He was a housing officer. What does a housing officer do? Check that everybody is in by curfew and that the lights are turned out by 9 p.m.?
- nilita
William Black - 17 Jun 2007 14:55 GMT >>>> We've seen it all before. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > What does a housing officer do? Check that everybody is in by curfew and > that the lights are turned out by 9 p.m.? Erm...
No...
As far as anyone can find out he sits in an office and acts as the supervisor for the vanishingly small number of senior NCOs who supervise the contactors who do the actual work and sign the tickets that authorise payments.
No skills of any type required...
Just the ability to report on senior men who are coasting to retirement and also to be reasonably honest or, at least, too stupid to be crooked...
Anyway, back to the naval career of Lt Cdr David S Hines USN (retired)
He joined the US Navy because his dad was an admiral. He had taken an undergraduate degree in politics and the Russian language, or some such useless combination, that fitted a person only for service in the Cold War, so long as it lasted, and so ended up on the fringes of the intelligence community.
As far as anyone can find out Hines was some sort of junior intelligence manager at a US base in Japan who upset everyone who came into professional contact with him but didn't actually screw up badly enough to get sacked, although reports indicate he was a laughing stock and was never, ever, allowed anywhere near anything important.
Then, one day, he then disagreed with a 'three star', and refused to back down.
He turned out to be wrong...
(No surprises there...)
He was then promptly 'moved sideways' to a job where he couldn't do any more harm but could serve out his days to his pension without actually coming into contact with anything that could possibly be even remotely connected with operations in any form, and well away from any general officers...
The job was Housing Officer at Pearl Harbour...
Later on, after retirement, he seems to have taught for a single term at the University of Hawaii and operated some sort of property company, for a very short time indeed...
Further details, from anyone, would be appreciated.
 Signature William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea.
Jack Linthicum - 17 Jun 2007 15:07 GMT On Jun 17, 9:55 am, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>> We've seen it all before. > [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach > Time for tea. An earlier effort http://www.historykb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/general-history/39/D-Spencer-HInes-FAQ http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2005-07/1122667123
and sequential chatter on that thread.
Wife's name is Kuniko, try the 1968-9 Who's Who for Wellington T. Hines, there are secrets there.
James Hogg - 19 Jun 2007 17:05 GMT >On Jun 17, 9:55 am, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk> >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] >An earlier effort http://www.historykb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/general-history/39/D-Spencer-HInes-FAQ >http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2005-07/1122667123 Here's a slightly more postive testimonial (but it shows that DSH has always been a controversial character):
"You see, despite the buffoonery you saw and heard tonight, Commander Hines is not a bad guy. He's just the 'Boss' for a large segment of our personnel, and as the boss, he is of course a big target. He's also big enough to be a really good sport. Thanks for that to [sic], Commander."
That's from http://akkingfish.homestead.com/files/bradley.html
And don't forget my own poetic tribute to Hines and his ancestors: http://tinyurl.com/38db34
James
Paul J Gans - 18 Jun 2007 18:11 GMT In alt.history.british William Black <william.black@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> We've seen it all before. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> What does a housing officer do? Check that everybody is in by curfew and >> that the lights are turned out by 9 p.m.?
>Erm...
>No...
>As far as anyone can find out he sits in an office and acts as the >supervisor for the vanishingly small number of senior NCOs who supervise the >contactors who do the actual work and sign the tickets that authorise >payments.
>No skills of any type required...
>Just the ability to report on senior men who are coasting to retirement and >also to be reasonably honest or, at least, too stupid to be crooked...
>Anyway, back to the naval career of Lt Cdr David S Hines USN (retired)
>He joined the US Navy because his dad was an admiral. He had taken an >undergraduate degree in politics and the Russian language, or some such >useless combination, that fitted a person only for service in the Cold War, >so long as it lasted, and so ended up on the fringes of the intelligence >community.
>As far as anyone can find out Hines was some sort of junior intelligence >manager at a US base in Japan who upset everyone who came into professional >contact with him but didn't actually screw up badly enough to get sacked, >although reports indicate he was a laughing stock and was never, ever, >allowed anywhere near anything important.
>Then, one day, he then disagreed with a 'three star', and refused to back >down.
>He turned out to be wrong...
>(No surprises there...)
>He was then promptly 'moved sideways' to a job where he couldn't do any more >harm but could serve out his days to his pension without actually coming >into contact with anything that could possibly be even remotely connected >with operations in any form, and well away from any general officers...
>The job was Housing Officer at Pearl Harbour...
>Later on, after retirement, he seems to have taught for a single term at >the University of Hawaii and operated some sort of property company, for a >very short time indeed...
>Further details, from anyone, would be appreciated. I believe that he picked up two Master's degrees along the way. And was stationed in Washington for a while.
 Signature --- Paul J. Gans
J Antero - 18 Jun 2007 19:05 GMT >>The job was Housing Officer at Pearl Harbour... > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I believe that he picked up two Master's degrees along > the way. And was stationed in Washington for a while. If that's true, it just makes the whole Hines phenomenon more disturbing.
Advanced degrees imply a certain degree of intelligence and independent thinking. Yet, all he does is regurgitate transparent propaganda editorials.
a.spencer3 - 19 Jun 2007 09:18 GMT > In alt.history.british William Black <william.black@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > I believe that he picked up two Master's degrees along > the way. And was stationed in Washington for a while. And he has a lovely, brilliant daughter, hates the fact that we knew her in her East Coast uni days, and is rightly terrified at what she told us about Daddy.
Surreyman
Jack Linthicum - 19 Jun 2007 12:15 GMT > > In alt.history.british William Black <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 88 lines] > > Surreyman Intelligence skipped a generation?
La N - 19 Jun 2007 13:31 GMT >> In alt.history.british William Black <william.black@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 92 lines] > about > Daddy. And it bugs him that we know that Kuniko is very unhappily married.
- nilita
The Highlander - 19 Jun 2007 16:25 GMT >> In alt.history.british William Black <william.black@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 88 lines] > >Surreyman That's rather sad and unforgiveably disloyal on his daughter's part.
I still cling to my vision of him sitting in front of his computer wearing his oversized turban with the flashing plastic diamond, directing the world's affairs via his dollar store crystal ball.
He would do well in the north of Scotland, which is one of the world's last outposts of oddball characters. The ravings aside, I sense that there's still a working brain behind the bitterness.
Being the descendant of a greatgrandfather who once ripped the kilt off a man strolling along Princes Street in Edinburgh, on the grounds that he was wearing "the family tartan but definitely wasn't one of us", I have a certain sympathy for the offbeat mind.
Scotland is awash with them, as witness the steady flow of inventions and ideas from that curious and unique band of rugged individuals we call the Scots.
The Highlander Tilgibh smucaid air do làmhan, togaibh a' bhratach dhubh agus toisichibh a' geàrradh na sgòrnanan!
Adam Whyte-Settlar - 17 Jun 2007 16:44 GMT >>> We've seen it all before. >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > He was a housing officer. So he claims - trainee dishwasher would be more appropriate to his intelligence level.
Jack Linthicum - 18 Jun 2007 16:26 GMT > A realistic and cogent interim status report from Bob Gates, David Petraeus > and Ryan Crocker. General Petraeus says the surge won't work now, in July or ever. We are going to be in Iraq for ten years, actually he said it takes ten years to put down an insurrection. He didn't seem to subtract the four we have been there. The Soviet operation in Afghanistan took ten years to fail, are we trying for a record?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,283553,00.html
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