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History Forum / General / British History / June 2007Good Fences
"A fence announces to the world that America is closed to . . . illegal immigrants. What's wrong with that? Is not every country in the world the same?" "The only reason others don't need such a barrier is that they are not half as attractive as America, not because we are more oppressive or less welcoming." Quite Sensible. Adelante! DSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas ------------------------------------------- Good Fences By Charles Krauthammer Friday, June 15, 2007 The reason comprehensive immigration reform remains in jeopardy, despite yesterday's partial resuscitation, is that it is a complex compromise with too many moving parts and too many competing interests. Employers want a guest worker program; unions want to kill it. Reformers want to introduce a point system that preferentially admits skilled and educated immigrants; immigrant groups naturally want to keep the existing family preference system. Liberals want legalization now; conservatives insist on enforcement "triggers" first. There is only one provision that has unanimous support: stronger border enforcement. I've seen senators stand up and object to the point system, to chain migration, to guest workers, to every and any idea in this bill -- except one. I have yet to hear a senator stand up and say she is against better border enforcement. Why not start by passing what all sides say they want? After all, proponents of this comprehensive reform insist that the current situation is intolerable and must be resolved. It follows, therefore, that however much they differ in the details of how the current mess should be resolved, they are united in the belief that such a mess should not be allowed to happen again. And the only way to make sure of that is border control. So why not pass it, with the understanding that the other contentious provisions would be taken up subsequently? Because for all the protestations, many of those who say they are deeply devoted to enforcement are being deeply disingenuous. They profess to care about immigration control because they have to. But they care so little about the issue that they are willing to make it hostage to the other controversial provisions, most notably legalization. Why am I so suspicious about the fealty of the reformers to real border control? In part because of the ridiculous debate over the building of a fence. Despite the success of the border barrier in the San Diego area, it appears to be very important that this success not be repeated. The current Senate bill provides for the fencing of no more than one-fifth of the border and the placing of vehicle barriers in no more than one-ninth. Instead, we are promised all kinds of fancy, high-tech substitutes -- sensors, cameras, unmanned aerial vehicles -- and lots more armed chaps on the ground to go chasing those who get through. Why? A barrier is a very simple thing to do. The technology is well tested. The Chinese had success with it, as did Hadrian. In our time, the barrier Israel has built has been so effective in keeping out intruders that suicide attacks are down more than 90 percent. Fences work. That's why people have them around their houses -- not because homeowners are unwelcoming but because they insist that those who wish to come into their domain knock at the front door. Fences are simple. They don't require much upkeep. Two fences with a patrol road between them along the length of the U.S.-Mexico border would be relatively cheap, easy to build and simple to maintain. Why this preference for fancy high-tech surveillance stuff that presents no physical impediment to illegal entry but instead triggers detection -- followed by alarm, pursuit, arrest and possible violence? It makes for great TV. But why is that good for the country? It is certainly good for the Border Patrol, ensuring a full employment program till the end of time. But why for the rest of us? Fences have no retirement benefits. The final argument against fences is, of course, the symbolism. We don't want a fence that announces to the world that America is closed. But this is entirely irrational. The fact is that under our law, America is indeed closed -- to all but those who, after elaborate procedures, are deemed worthy of joining the American family. Those objecting to the fence should be objecting to the law that closes America off, not to the means for effectively carrying out that law. A fence announces to the world that America is closed to . . . illegal immigrants. What's wrong with that? Is not every country in the world the same? The only reason others don't need such a barrier is that they are not half as attractive as America, not because we are more oppressive or less welcoming. Fences are ugly, I grant you that. But not as ugly as 12 million people living in the shadows in a country that has forfeited control of its borders. Comprehensive immigration reform has simply too many contentious provisions to command a majority of Congress or the country. We all agree on enforcement, don't we? So let's do it. Make it simple. And do it now. Once our borders come visibly under control, everything else will become doable. Including amnesty. > "A fence announces to the world that America is closed to . . . illegal > immigrants. What's wrong with that? Is not every country in the Issue all citizens and legals "bio based" id's tied to a quickly accesed online database, and make employers subject to major penalties for employing illegals. The problem will disappear in a matter of months at very little expense. As is often the case, fences and hiring herds of braindead "guards" costs much, and accomplishes little. >> "A fence announces to the world that >> America is closed to . . . illegal [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > herds of braindead "guards" costs much, and > accomplishes little. Yes, this a good idea, except all the lawyers will squeal "human rights"! In fact it's the next best thing to my 'pregnancy vaccine' proposal. > >> "A fence announces to the world that > >> America is closed to . . . illegal [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > In fact it's the next best thing to my > 'pregnancy vaccine' proposal. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A funny thing happened on the way to the last meeting of the Minutemen. Somebody woke up and realised that a fence will disrupt an entire ecosystem. A fence prevents certain wild creatures from getting water. Furthermore an electronic surveillance fence will constantly be triggered by wild animals getting caught in the fence and being fried. Texas deer are strong enough to bust right thru a chain link fence. Especially if they are running at full speed in the dark. Cheers, David H ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The ecosystem will just have to suffer... > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > A funny thing happened on the way to the last meeting of the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Cheers, David H > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ An even funnier thing happened when the forests of Arizona were set on fire by illegal aliens: http://washingtontimes.com/national/20070619-121814-2527r.htm You don't think off road trucks running drugs and human cargo affect the environment? Are you THAT stupid? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > A funny thing happened on the way to the last meeting of the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Cheers, David H > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yes, a fence. AS LONG AS THE BORDER. Not shorter, as Congress has been considering. ??? It took ten Mexicans to build my deck. Now, how does Mr. Hines and the Hammer intend to build such a long fence without Mexicans? > "A fence announces to the world that America is closed to . . . illegal > immigrants. What's wrong with that? Is not every country in the world [quoted text clipped - 122 lines] > doable. > Including amnesty. > "A fence announces to the world that America is closed to . . . illegal > immigrants. What's wrong with that? Is not every country in the world the [quoted text clipped - 104 lines] > our borders come visibly under control, everything else will become doable. > Including amnesty. I read on this NG that they are in fact just passing thru the US on their way to the mecca known as Iceland. Gay Highlander On Jun 18, 6:10 am, gay.highlan...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > > "A fence announces to the world that America is closed to . . . illegal > > immigrants. What's wrong with that? Is not every country in the world the [quoted text clipped - 109 lines] > > Gay Highlander Anyone else see a perfect match for another person who favors this person's title? > On Jun 18, 6:10 am, gay.highlan...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 155 lines] > Anyone else see a perfect match for another person who favors this > person's title? Two of 'em ... gaaaaack! - nil Let me pose a problem for the "Fence" approach with a bit of the reality which is the "Border".... Along the Rio Grande (if you're in the US)/Bravo (as it's known in Mexico), are a number of US cities with modest but currently burgeoning economies. In one of those quirks of statistics, they have between them on average, the lowest levels of household income in the US, and thus have the least economic "cushion" against hard times. The cities, with names like Brownsville, Harlingen, McAllen, Alamo, Weslaco, Laredo, Eagle Pass, Del Rio and to an extent even much larger El Paso, have as their economic base and principal economic stimulus, trade with Mexico. While at Laredo, where more trucks enter the US than at any other PoE, "big" commerce is the stimulus, even there and in all the others, the biggest chunk of the economy is based on Mexicans who cross the Border as "day trippers" to shop in the large "malls" and big box strip centers which continue to prolifereate. The new law, as currently written, if passed and enforced, will destroy those economies, because "day-crossers" will simply be cut off, unless equipped with paperwork beyond the means of the average Mexican shopper (The ones going to the Galleria or Neiman Marcus can afford visas.) While the law as proposed will slow the rush North of illegals seeking to work in US jobs as far away as Maine and Washington State, it won't stop it, and will irreparably damage the economies of a number of Border cities. Much is made of "big business" employing illegals. That's simply bullshit, and most who are so employed have equipped themselves with adequate forged documents to pass even strict evaluation by "Human Resources Departments". Currently, it takes the SSA at least a year to catch a "fake" SSN, and much longer when the number actually belongs to a living person who has "loaned" it to an illegal. 95% of "employed" undocumented illegals work for countless small businesses (or set themselves up as "independent sub-contractors", the new alias for "Day Laborer"). It's not General Motors or GE or WalMart that will take hits in the new law, but the "Mom and Pop" businesses that provide all sorts of basic services and much of the skilled labor for residential construction. Then there's all the talk of the children born in the US of "illegal" parents, and the creation of a new "law" which denies them citizenship. While the idea sounds good, there may be a sizeable and multi-tiered legal barrier to its enforcement...that such children may not have contributory culpability in the creation of fraudulent citizenship, and that for them the place of birth was an innocent accident which the Constitution implies is immutable and unpunishable. Having themselves been guilty of no crime, they may not be punished for the crimes of others or so will say the claims as they wind their way to the Supreme Court (and even a conservative court may have great diificulty denying a claim to citizenship of a "native born", qualified at least in law to be President). > The new law, as currently written, if passed and enforced, will destroy > those economies, because "day-crossers" will simply be cut off, It's really not a problem. The Common Good requires that the few, who currently benefit from illegal immigration activity that is detrimental to the rest of the country, adapt to things as they should be. > Let me pose a problem for the "Fence" approach with a bit of the reality > which is the "Border".... [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > have great diificulty denying a claim to citizenship of a "native born", > qualified at least in law to be President). It is very touching from you, TMOliver to have so much sympathy for the illegal / undocumented ones and the Mom & Pop businesses. But the fact is that business wants cheap labor, and the wholly owned subsidiary of the corporate oligarchy, the US government will supply it to them. That's why we don't enforce the immigration laws, and we will never do as long as the corporate oligarchy runs the government. NAFTA was to serve the same purpose. Let the American Agro business ship cheap corn to Mexico, so the peasants can't make a living, so they end up in the US to depress American wages. >> Let me pose a problem for the "Fence" approach with a bit of the reality >> which is the "Border".... [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > cheap corn to Mexico, so the peasants can't make a living, so they end up > in the US to depress American wages. The Internationale Arise ye workers from your slumbers Arise ye prisoners of want For reason in revolt now thunders And at last ends the age of cant. Away with all your superstitions Servile masses arise, arise We'll change henceforth the old tradition And spurn the dust to win the prize. Chorus So comrades, come rally And the last fight let us face The Internationale unites the human race. So comrades, come rally And the last fight let us face The Internationale unites the human race. TMOliver is completely NAIVE. Illegal aliens come to the US not only to work, but to take full advantage of the social services offered. LA County has lost no fewer than 5 emergency rooms because they can no longer afford to service illegal aliens who exploit their services without paying for them. Emergency rooms in the US are prohibited from establishing citizenship as a pre-condition to treatment. Illegal aliens come from other nations w/the express intent of receiving treatment in US ER's. 25% to 33% of the prison/jail population in the US consists of illegal aliens. Due to the wonders of an open border, hispanic criminals have an easy escape route from the US (extradition of Mexican nationals to the US is a poor joke) and Mexican drug lords an easier path to deliver their goods. > It is very touching from you, TMOliver to have so much sympathy for the > illegal / undocumented ones and the Mom & Pop businesses. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > cheap corn to Mexico, so the peasants can't make a living, so they end up > in the US to depress American wages. > But the fact is that business wants cheap labor, and the wholly owned > subsidiary of the corporate oligarchy, the US government will supply it to > them. Exactly. Seems that a lot of US people are slow to wake up to the fact that the global corporations are the new 'countries'. They make more profit than most of them that's for sure. It's called globalisation - remember? You voted for it 20 years ago. It aims to eventually give every American the right to earn the same wage as every Mexican - or Philipino or Chinaman. These lines on the map are all in the mind - I've been there to check it out and they don't really exist - they never did. The only line that means anything these days is the bottom line. > > But the fact is that business wants cheap labor, and the wholly owned > > subsidiary of the corporate oligarchy, the US government will supply it to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > and they don't really exist - they never did. > The only line that means anything these days is the bottom line. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I suspect that "TMoliver" is the kraut partner of Mary Oliver Erilar. I cannot believe a Germanic can be so naive. He doesn't know zilch about Laredo and Nuevo Laredo. There are two bus stations in Laredo TX. One station is strictly for Mexican citizens who cross the bridge from Mexico and who have self employment in homes and businesses on the Texas side. This custom goes back for generations to the time when there was one Laredo, one fire department, and one alcalde. Maybe this is against Federal law. Maybe it is against state law. But something tells me it is a local matter which is completely accepted by the local governments. Trust me, no Mex is going to depart from his/her Laredo workplace and try to be smuggled into the US interior. The Texas border region is, for most of the year, the equivalent of Death Valley, as in the TV series "Death Valley Days." Okay, damn the wildlife, we will get a fence. The fence does not need to come within 3 miles of the Laredo TX city limit. The fence can save billions of dollars in border control personnel costs, just by being out there, trapping wild animals and noncitizens for hundreds of miles. Cheers, David H ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> > But the fact is that business wants cheap labor, and the wholly owned >> > subsidiary of the corporate oligarchy, the US government will supply it [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > I cannot believe a Germanic can be so naive. > He doesn't know zilch about Laredo and Nuevo Laredo. He doesn't know zilch about much of anything. He's tried pontificating in other threads on things like food borne illness and US healthcare, and all he ever comes up with is cliche' ridden tripe. > There are two bus stations in Laredo TX. One station is strictly > for Mexican citizens who cross the bridge from Mexico and who [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Cheers, David H > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My God you are NAIVE. Do you think it's "accidental" that illegal aliens have kids in the USA? Guilty of "no crime"? Illegal immigration IS a crime! > Let me pose a problem for the "Fence" approach with a bit of the reality > which is the "Border".... [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > citizenship of a "native born", qualified at least in law to be > President). > My God you are NAIVE. > > Do you think it's "accidental" that illegal aliens have kids in the USA? Of course not. "Illegals" have a gretaer knowledge of of law than you and are smart enough to figure out the results thereof... > Guilty of "no crime"? Illegal immigration IS a crime! Just what "crime" have the children born in the US committed. They are not illegal immigrants. The Cosnstution implies that any "native born" is not only not a criminal, but could grow up to be President. How would you like to go to jail or be deported if your father had cheated on his income tax or held up 7-11s. Do you recall that lille phrase about "Bills of Attainder"? ....and incidentqlly, your prison population numbers are so outlandishly off the mark as to be astonishly inept readings of fact. You've been reading the scaremongers again. As for "not paying in emergency rooms", the numbers are far worse in California than in states without CA's horribly bloated entitlement system. In any case, it turns out that the hospitals that have closed emergency rooms were those in which a full range of trauma/emergency services could not have been provided in a profitable cost center. As long as California voters are willing to fund the sort of system CA has, illegals are going to continue to show up at emergency rooms for non-trauma illness and semi-routine medical services. There are several other states with population percentages of illegals in the same range as California's, yet they report no closure of emergency rooms over-loaded treating illegals. >> Let me pose a problem for the "Fence" approach with a bit of the reality >> which is the "Border".... [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] >> claim to citizenship of a "native born", qualified at least in law to be >> President). > > My God you are NAIVE. > [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] > >> claim to citizenship of a "native born", qualified at least in law to be > >> President). In DC they call an ambulance in place of a cab >> > My God you are NAIVE. >> [quoted text clipped - 111 lines] > > In DC they call an ambulance in place of a cab Unfortunately, that's a choice all too often made by both the "legal" (all those political refugee - My a.s!- Central American hotel chambermaids) in the massive chunk of DC's population born here but poor in income and in spirit.... Don't just blame it on illegals (and other than those with pretty good fraudulent documents, DC's a bad place to be illegal(. >>> > My God you are NAIVE. >>> [quoted text clipped - 126 lines] > spirit.... Don't just blame it on illegals (and other than those with > pretty good fraudulent documents, DC's a bad place to be illegal(. It's a pretty good place to be handicapped because you get free on-street parking at the city-owned meter. As a result more than 50% of the cars parked on the street have handicapped parking tags. The Post reported on this fraud on Sunday, March 25, 1998 (but I'm too cheap to buy the article.) The only rationale that I can use is that, since most people *look* physically fit, then they must be the mentally handicapped. > >>> "Doug" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 137 lines] > The only rationale that I can use is that, since most people *look* > physically fit, then they must be the mentally handicapped. You know they are not. M Street from 18th to 22nd was filled with the cars with the handicapped tags. I watched a restauranteure park his golden Cadillac in front of his restaurant and pull his golf clubs out of the trunk. I guess my "inept readings of fact" aren't too far off, eh? Illegal Immigration 270,000 illegal immigrants served jail time in 2003, representing 21% of the federal prison population. It is estimated that currently 27% of federal prison inmates are criminal aliens, noncitizens convicted of crimes while in this country legally or illegally Source wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisons_in_the_United_States > ....and incidentqlly, your prison population numbers are so outlandishly > off the mark as to be astonishly inept readings of fact. You've been > reading the scaremongers again. > I guess my "inept readings of fact" aren't too far off, eh? > Illegal Immigration [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > off the mark as to be astonishly inept readings of fact. You've been > > reading the scaremongers again. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Only 27% ? I thought it was more like 50%. Maybe the Texas percentage of incarcerations is 50% noncitizen. Another factor to consider is the rate of deportation. Annual deportations average 150,000. So you might want to deduct that figure from the 400,000 average annual in-migration. Cheers, David H ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Another factor to consider is the rate of deportation. > Annual deportations average 150,000. So you might want > to deduct that figure from the 400,000 average annual > in-migration. What about emigration? I seem to meet more US citizens who prefer not to live there these days, especially people who have retired or who can work from home via the net. Some countries give ten year visas to US tourists or long term visas to retirees and most of them have better weather and cheaper 'everything' than western nations. The US long term population in Goa was actually noticeable this winter, for the first time. Any idea what emigration figures are these days? UK emigration figures are about 250,000 a year.  SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. > > Another factor to consider is the rate of deportation. > > Annual deportations average 150,000. So you might want [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach > Time for tea. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Nice try , William. But you know that "anglo emigration" is basically to countries with European (not Congolese) living standards and health care schemes . No sane Brit or yank wants to live in the turd world because the minute he/she gets sick and goes to the doctor, the doctor will say: "The medicine you need to survive this jungle rot has to be ordered from the States." But some yanks go abroad to die. Remember Ambrose Bierce ? He chose 1913 Insurgent Mexico. I don't think he went into that killing field looking for gourmet food and Blue Cross health care. If you maintain that there are an abundance of Americans living in Goa these days, I betcha they are Indo-Americans or Indo-Brits who went back there with a death wish after retirement. Cheers, David H ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> The US long term population in Goa was actually noticeable this winter, >> for >> the first time. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Nice try , William. But you know that "anglo emigration" is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the doctor will say: "The medicine you need to survive this jungle > rot has to be ordered from the States." Utter bollocks. As I said, the US population in Goa is actually noticeable this year... > If you maintain that there are an abundance of Americans living in > Goa these days, I betcha they are Indo-Americans > or Indo-Brits who went back there with a death wish after > retirement. Nope. The people of Indian ethnic origin don't go there except for a short beach holiday now and again, they usually return to their own village and build a big house. The long term resident Westerners there are invariably of European origin. Your comments also display a worrying ignorance about the quality of Indian healthcare. People go there from the USA in largish numbers for 'expensive' operations. http://www.medicaltourismindia.com/ http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4562670 http://www.tajmedicalgroup.com/ The Hinduja Hospital in Bombay was established in co-operation with the Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston and specialises in the exchange of doctors between the USA and India. Now, as I was saying before you tried to change the subject, how many emigrants from the USA last year? SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. On Jun 21, 5:07 am, "Singanas@Texasgulfcoast" <davidholi...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > "Singanas@Texasgulfcoast" <davidholi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > Cheers, David H > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Nastier than the medicine is in the West is the realization that the environment in the tropics is the problem. Friend got a disease of the hands and lower arms that made them look like alligator skin and hurt like hell. Doc says, I can cure you, how?, send you back to States, do that, can't you are vital to the mission, So, instead of the usual 18 months he served 27. > Nastier than the medicine is in the West is the realization that the > environment in the tropics is the problem. Friend got a disease of the > hands and lower arms that made them look like alligator skin and hurt > like hell. Doc says, I can cure you, how?, send you back to States, do > that, can't you are vital to the mission, So, instead of the usual 18 > months he served 27. We're not talking about people building bridges in a swamp, we're talking about people living out their retirement or working from home in a well known resort area with advanced medicine available at low cost. SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. On Jun 21, 5:14 am, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: > > Nastier than the medicine is in the West is the realization that the > > environment in the tropics is the problem. Friend got a disease of the [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach > Time for tea. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sir William, I stand corrected. But I don't speak for the Commander. He may weigh in on this matter at any time. Cheers, David H ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > I guess my "inept readings of fact" aren't too far off, eh? > > Illegal Immigration [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Cheers, David H > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Try 17% http://texaspolitics.laits.utexas.edu/html/just/features/0504_01/slide1.html > > > I guess my "inept readings of fact" aren't too far off, eh? > > > Illegal Immigration [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Try 17%http://texaspolitics.laits.utexas.edu/html/just/features/0504_01/slid... Hit the wrong button, 2002 is 28%, blacks seem to be "overrepresented" at 41% of the prison population and 12% of the state population. >I guess my "inept readings of fact" aren't too far off, eh? > Illegal Immigration [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Source wikipedia: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisons_in_the_United_States That's 270,000 illegals were in jail somewhere on some day/days in the entire US (and counts everyone picked up by local authorities for transfer to the feds). Your claim is so outlandish as to be silly. The local federal private lockup here now holds about 200 "waiing for the bus". They are part of your 270,000, none of them convicted of a crime. Most will be held for a week or less awiting transport (and of course, many will be back within 2-3 weeks of deporation). "Stats" like yours are purposely misleading to sell the case of the turgid bloggers who espouse the same sort of policy as you do, unwilling to comprehend that not only can we not deport 12,000,000 folks, but that a lot of chickens won't get plucked or pots washed if we try. Incidentally, 270,000 out of 12,000,000 isa far lower pefcentage that of the percentage of 18-35 year old African American males incarcerated. Many times lower. Would you favor deporting them. Before prescribing solutions to border problems, I suggest you visit the border for a few days... >> ....and incidentqlly, your prison population numbers are so outlandishly >> off the mark as to be astonishly inept readings of fact. You've been >> reading the scaremongers again. Do you have any proof of your theory, or is it just your own private delusion? I think it's your own private delusion because if we look at the study that determined these figures it is based on: criminal aliens: Noncitizens who are residing in the United States legally or illegally and convicted of a crime. SCAAP criminal aliens: A subgroup of criminal aliens: noncitizens illegally in the United States at the time of incarceration for whom state and local jurisdictions received federal reimbursement through SCAAP; the aliens must meet specific legal requirements. Look up the following GAO document to determine how/why the study is probably understating the figures: d05337r.pdf. It's also linked to directly in the wikipedia article. SFB. > That's 270,000 illegals were in jail somewhere on some day/days in the > entire US (and counts everyone picked up by local authorities for transfer [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >>> off the mark as to be astonishly inept readings of fact. You've been >>> reading the scaremongers again. I wonder if the author knows that Frost was being ironically sarcastic when he wrote "Good fences make good neighbors?" Probably beyond his ability to process. Dan > I wonder if the author knows that Frost was being ironically sarcastic > when he wrote "Good fences make good neighbors?" I vote no. > Probably beyond his ability to process. > > Dan >> "A fence announces to the world that America is closed to . . . illegal >> immigrants. What's wrong with that? Is not every country in the world the [quoted text clipped - 109 lines] > >Gay Highlander It doesn't bother me that you're a drunk and now a self-confessed homosexual, but you are not and never will be a Highlander. You just don't have what it takes to be a real man. The Highlander Tilgibh smucaid air do làmhan, togaibh a' bhratach dhubh agus toisichibh a' geàrradh na sgòrnanan! |
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