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History Forum / General / British History / November 2007



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Re: Day of Decision: The Battle of Hastings

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D. Spencer Hines - 06 Nov 2007 22:36 GMT
Those of us who have read some History, and therefore REMEMBER when Britain
was GREAT, still occasionally say and write GREAT BRITAIN out of fond and
somewhat wistful nostalgia and respect.

We are fully aware that it's neither accurate nor Politically Correct.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Britannicus Traductus Sum

"John Briggs" <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:pj5Yi.34537$9Y3.109@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...

> "Great Britain" as a whole island.  "Britain" means the United Kingdom
> (however configured.)
James Hogg - 06 Nov 2007 22:56 GMT
>Those of us who have read some History, and therefore REMEMBER when Britain
>was GREAT, still occasionally say and write GREAT BRITAIN out of fond and
>somewhat wistful nostalgia and respect.
>
>We are fully aware that it's neither accurate nor Politically Correct.

Having read some history, you do know, of course, that the term Great
Britain was originally used to distinguish the island from Little
Britain, not the comedy show (do you get that in the States?) but
Britannia Minor or Brittany.

Nothing has changed. The area of Great Britain is still bigger than
that of Bretagne.  No need for nostalgia or respect, just pure
geography makes Britain Great.

James
D. Spencer Hines - 06 Nov 2007 23:48 GMT
>>Those of us who have read some History, and therefore REMEMBER when
>>Britain was GREAT, still occasionally say and write GREAT BRITAIN out
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Britain was originally used to distinguish the island from Little
> Britain [sop]

Of course we are -- it's irrelevant.

Vide supra pro sapientia.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Renia - 07 Nov 2007 02:14 GMT
>>>Those of us who have read some History, and therefore REMEMBER when
>>>Britain was GREAT, still occasionally say and write GREAT BRITAIN out
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Of course we are -- it's irrelevant.

It's very relevant. Ever looked at a Map Of The World?

> Vide supra pro sapientia.

Vide crappe.

> DSH
>
> Lux et Veritas et Libertas
The Highlander - 09 Nov 2007 11:00 GMT
>>>>Those of us who have read some History, and therefore REMEMBER when
>>>>Britain was GREAT, still occasionally say and write GREAT BRITAIN out
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>>
>> Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Now Renia, this is the moment to start talking about Armorica, the old
name for Brittany, and to explain that Lobster Americaine is a
typically ignorant  American botching of Homard Armoricaine.

How can any of these "esperts" find their arses without a map, is my
next question. I feel quite ill at the thought of the US system of
one-illiterate, one vote!

I'll leave you to it, and once again commend you for having parents
who made sure you had a decent education.
Renia - 09 Nov 2007 11:19 GMT
>>>>>Those of us who have read some History, and therefore REMEMBER when
>>>>>Britain was GREAT, still occasionally say and write GREAT BRITAIN out
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> name for Brittany, and to explain that Lobster Americaine is a
> typically ignorant  American botching of Homard Armoricaine.

Don't know anything about lobsters, either Armoricaine or American.

Armorica comes from the old Gaulish word for on or by the sea and really
refers to that northern tip of NW France (Brittany) and out into the
Atlantic for an indeterminate distance. Pliny made a mistake and thought
it meant the whole shabang as far as Aquitaine. Gaulish is a language
closely related to Breton and Welsh. Some town and village names in
Brittany and Wales today are quite similar to each other. Brittany has
very strong Arthurian legends of its own, possibly even stronger than
Great Britain's. There were strong political and financial links between
Great Britain and Brittany during Roman times, which Julius Caesar
reported upon.

The fun part of Armorica or Gaul, is that is the famed home of Asterix
and his physician colleague, Getafix.

> How can any of these "esperts" find their arses without a map, is my
> next question. I feel quite ill at the thought of the US system of
> one-illiterate, one vote!

Well, a lot of hot air and crap emanate from either major orifice, so
they do seem to have trouble remembering which is which.

> I'll leave you to it, and once again commend you for having parents
> who made sure you had a decent education.

Thank my parents and my excellent grammar school.
allan connochie - 09 Nov 2007 11:51 GMT
> Brittany has very strong Arthurian legends of its own, possibly even
> stronger than Great Britain's.

I visited Merlin's grave in Britanny in, I think it was the Foerst of
Broceliande (spelling), but every Borderer will tell you Merlin was buried
at Merlindale near Drumelzier, in Peeblesshire. Stoned to death by local
shepherds! No doubt there are many othr Merlin's graves too :-)

Certainly for anyone visiting Britanny the standing stones at Carnac are a
must. Absolutely immemse monument of hundreds of monoliths seemingly
stretching for what seems like miles. Far more impressive than anything in
the UK of that ilk.

Allan
a.spencer3 - 09 Nov 2007 12:10 GMT
> > Brittany has very strong Arthurian legends of its own, possibly even
> > stronger than Great Britain's.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> stretching for what seems like miles. Far more impressive than anything in
> the UK of that ilk.

Yep.
In fact I seem to remember that there are several thousand of 'em.
Some 25 years ago I spent two weeks amongst those, in between crepes.
Amazing place.
But when you remember that the Egyptian Pyramids and temples were going up
at much the same time ...........

Surreyman
James Hogg - 09 Nov 2007 12:20 GMT
>> > Brittany has very strong Arthurian legends of its own, possibly even
>> > stronger than Great Britain's.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>Some 25 years ago I spent two weeks amongst those, in between crepes.
>Amazing place.

Brittany certainly gives you the crepes. I also like the
seaweed-flavoured beer.

>But when you remember that the Egyptian Pyramids and temples were going up
>at much the same time ...........

One of the saddest reflections of modern life is that, if you
Google for Brittany, the fourth hit on the list is the official
Britney Spears website.

James

>Surreyman
The Highlander - 09 Nov 2007 16:07 GMT
>>> > Brittany has very strong Arthurian legends of its own, possibly even
>>> > stronger than Great Britain's.
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>>
>>Surreyman

Youth must be served....

I might add that there have been weeks when we lived on crêpes,
I would cook sixty or more to ensure we didn't run out. Crêpes freeze
perfectly between sheets of waxpaper and the possibilities for the
fillings/toppings are endless. In addition, there are few desserts
that are as light and delicious as crêpes Suzette. I have to stop
before I start drooling on my keyboard!

Galettes are also delicious with an egg or salted butter, as well as
ham or cheese or sugar or jam, accompanied by a glass of cider or
"lait ribot" a lightly fermented Breton milk, not unlike buttermilk.
James Hogg - 09 Nov 2007 16:27 GMT
>>>> > Brittany has very strong Arthurian legends of its own, possibly even
>>>> > stronger than Great Britain's.
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
>ham or cheese or sugar or jam, accompanied by a glass of cider or
>"lait ribot" a lightly fermented Breton milk, not unlike buttermilk.

All in all, Brittany is a GOOD THING. Let's not start about the music,
Les Soeurs Goadec or Jean Baron on his bombarde.

Brian McNeill's novel "To Answer the Peacock" is very interestingly
set in Brittany.

James
D. Spencer Hines - 09 Nov 2007 16:30 GMT
Yes, she's distinctly fourth-rate -- used goods.

DSH

> One of the saddest reflections of modern life is that, if you
> Google for Brittany, the fourth hit on the list is the official
> Britney Spears website.
James Hogg - 09 Nov 2007 17:27 GMT
>> One of the saddest reflections of modern life is that, if you
>> Google for Brittany, the fourth hit on the list is the official
>> Britney Spears website.
>
>Yes, she's distinctly fourth-rate -- used goods.

I understand that she has fallen in your esteem and left you
disappointed. I couldn't rate her at all myself, never having
knowingly heard anything by her.

James
Renia - 09 Nov 2007 12:25 GMT
>>>Brittany has very strong Arthurian legends of its own, possibly even
>>>stronger than Great Britain's.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> In fact I seem to remember that there are several thousand of 'em.
> Some 25 years ago I spent two weeks amongst those, in between crepes.

Oh, please. Don't start me on crepes in Brittany. Exquisite.

> Amazing place.
> But when you remember that the Egyptian Pyramids and temples were going up
> at much the same time ...........

Makes you wonder if Stonehenge was a pyramid but the grass fell off.
Renia - 09 Nov 2007 12:24 GMT
>>Brittany has very strong Arthurian legends of its own, possibly even
>>stronger than Great Britain's.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> at Merlindale near Drumelzier, in Peeblesshire. Stoned to death by local
> shepherds! No doubt there are many othr Merlin's graves too :-)

When I was in New Orleans, we were taken to the House of the Rising Sun.

Or at least, one of them. There are four, I think.

> Certainly for anyone visiting Britanny the standing stones at Carnac are a
> must. Absolutely immemse monument of hundreds of monoliths seemingly
> stretching for what seems like miles. Far more impressive than anything in
> the UK of that ilk.

Indeedy. Like Avebury writ large.
The Highlander - 09 Nov 2007 15:48 GMT
>> Brittany has very strong Arthurian legends of its own, possibly even
>> stronger than Great Britain's.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>Allan

They're stunning, aren't they?. Stonehenge fades into insignificance
by comparison.
Leticia Cluff - 09 Nov 2007 19:51 GMT
>>>>Those of us who have read some History, and therefore REMEMBER when
>>>>Britain was GREAT, still occasionally say and write GREAT BRITAIN out
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>Vide crappe.

I think that DSH is using the Latin word "pro" in one of its common
acceptations, namely "instead of." He's trying to say, "Instead of
knowledge you can read what I have written above."

Say what you like about Mr. Hines, but he has served one significant
function here. He has united a lot of people in their antipathy to
this tripe-triplicating troll.

I recollect from my student days, long before I left the States for
Canada, when serial killer Son of Sam was terrorizing New York. After
he was caught, National Lampoon had an article with the headline:

"He Brought Us Together"

The article then said something about how living in fear of David
Berkowitz had united all New Yorkers:

"Young or old, rich or poor, black or white, sensitive or Australian,
he brought us together."

I won't dwell on the other obvious parallels between the two Davids.

Tish
The Highlander - 09 Nov 2007 15:54 GMT
>>>Those of us who have read some History, and therefore REMEMBER when
>>>Britain was GREAT, still occasionally say and write GREAT BRITAIN out
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>Of course we are -- it's irrelevant.

It is not irrelevant at all. We are lying in our teeth again, in a
transparent attempt to save face; a face already exposed as knowing
nothing.

How shameful to watch this ducking and weaving because one's ego will
not allow one to admit that one could have been wrong. The danger of
positioning oneself as an infallible guru now becomes crystal clear.

My contempt for this pathetic avoidance of responsibility underlines
your immaturity as a failed adult.

>Vide supra pro sapientia.
>
>DSH
>
>Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Renia - 07 Nov 2007 02:11 GMT
> Those of us who have read some History, and therefore REMEMBER when Britain
> was GREAT, still occasionally say and write GREAT BRITAIN out of fond and
> somewhat wistful nostalgia and respect.
>
> We are fully aware that it's neither accurate nor Politically Correct.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Keep Trying.

Why do we always get your balderdash in triplicate?
Adam Whyte-Settlar - 07 Nov 2007 12:03 GMT
>> Those of us who have read some History, and therefore REMEMBER when
>> Britain
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Why do we always get your balderdash in triplicate?

I see he still hasn't broken his unbeaten record in being wrong about
absolutely everything absolutely every time.
How does he do it. It's truly uncanny.
James Hogg - 07 Nov 2007 12:18 GMT
>>> Those of us who have read some History, and therefore REMEMBER when
>>> Britain
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>absolutely everything absolutely every time.
>How does he do it. It's truly uncanny.

All those years of practising public displays of ineptitude and
despicability are bound to yield some result.

I don't think he even has the excuse of being drunk when posting. The
problem runs deeper than that.

James Hogg
The Highlander - 09 Nov 2007 16:13 GMT
>>> Those of us who have read some History, and therefore REMEMBER when
>>> Britain
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>absolutely everything absolutely every time.
>How does he do it. It's truly uncanny.

His subscription to the Reader's Digest must have expired...
The Highlander - 09 Nov 2007 16:11 GMT
>> Those of us who have read some History, and therefore REMEMBER when Britain
>> was GREAT, still occasionally say and write GREAT BRITAIN out of fond and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Why do we always get your balderdash in triplicate?

<discreet applause!>

As this is a Scottish group, and as the Scots are famous for their
remorseless harrying of an enemy, I look forward to several weeks of
harrassing the now-discredited Hines. We have a major advantage
compared to others; we are graduates of the finest educational system
in the world as may be seen by the subjects discussed in SCS without
benefit of guesswork or vague, dubious claims.
Renia - 09 Nov 2007 17:37 GMT
>>>Those of us who have read some History, and therefore REMEMBER when Britain
>>>was GREAT, still occasionally say and write GREAT BRITAIN out of fond and
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> remorseless harrying of an enemy, I look forward to several weeks of
> harrassing the now-discredited Hines.

He has been discredited for the entire ten years or so I have used
usenet. He is the number one troll par supreme. Give him his due - he is
a magnificent troll with no one to touch him. At least he's good at
something.

I just wish we didn't get his trolling in triplicate.

> We have a major advantage
> compared to others; we are graduates of the finest educational system
> in the world as may be seen by the subjects discussed in SCS without
> benefit of guesswork or vague, dubious claims.  

Were the same on shm, whenever there's something medieval to discuss.
But, thanks to the Supreme Troll, there's never anything to discuss on
that subject in that newsgroup.
Adam Whyte-Settlar - 09 Nov 2007 22:34 GMT
> He has been discredited for the entire ten years or so I have used usenet.
> He is the number one troll par supreme. Give him his due - he is a
> magnificent troll with no one to touch him.

I think you miss the point - he isn't a troll at all.
He really *is* that ignorant.
gonzo - 07 Nov 2007 20:58 GMT
> Those of us who have read some History, and therefore REMEMBER when
> Britain was GREAT, still occasionally say and write GREAT BRITAIN out
> of fond and somewhat wistful nostalgia and respect.
>
> We are fully aware that it's neither accurate nor Politically Correct.

Nostalgia indeed! How they must miss the old gunboat
diplomacy, when the answer to cheeky wogs was to murder
a few thousand of them! Wistful memories of burning villages
and screaming children.
Robert Peffers - 07 Nov 2007 23:52 GMT
>> Those of us who have read some History, and therefore REMEMBER when
>> Britain was GREAT, still occasionally say and write GREAT BRITAIN out
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> a few thousand of them! Wistful memories of burning villages
> and screaming children.

You do realise, don't you, that for the most part the British Empire became,
"The Commonwealth of Nations", (sometimes as the British Commonwealth)?
The British Commonwealth, is a voluntary association of 53 independent
sovereign states, most of which are former British colonies (the exceptions
being the United Kingdom itself and Mozambique). Queen Elizabeth II is the
current Head of the Commonwealth, recognised by each state, and as such is
the symbol of the free association of the organisation's members. This
position, however, does not imply political power over Commonwealth member
states.

Antigua and Barbuda
Australia
The Bahamas
Bangladesh
Barbados
Belize
Botswana
Brunei Darussalam
Cameroon
Canada
Cyprus
Dominica
Fiji Islands
The Gambia
Ghana
Grenada
Guyana
India
Jamaica
Kenya
Kiribati
Lesotho
Malawi
Malaysia
Maldives
Malta
Mauritius
Mozambique
Namibia
Nauru
New Zealand
Nigeria
Pakistan
Papua New Guinea
St Kitts and Nevis
St Lucia
St Vincent and the Grenadines
Samoa
Seychelles
Sierra Leone
Singapore
Solomon Islands
South Africa
Sri Lanka
Swaziland
Tonga
Trinidad and Tobago
Tuvalu
Uganda
United Kingdom
United Republic of Tanzania
Vanuatu
Zambia
***** Gibraltar is an Associate member.
The Highlander - 09 Nov 2007 17:31 GMT
>> Those of us who have read some History, and therefore REMEMBER when
>> Britain was GREAT, still occasionally say and write GREAT BRITAIN out
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>a few thousand of them! Wistful memories of burning villages
>and screaming children.

Music to the Highland ear... Leaving children alive only meant one
thing; weakness; leading to revenge massacres when the survivors grew
up and returned to pay off old scores. There is far too much made of
Highland massacres; they were a salutary reminder to others not to
mess with one's clan, not mention access to hitherto unavailable
rations.

Plus there were some damned fine bagpipe rants created during those
times to drown out the screaming - even our ancestors had some
emotions, one likes to believe, They didn't always murder their
prisoners, although I will admit it was a problem during WWI as dead
men can't tell one's superiors who and how many are facing one's own
side.

I suspect the above may be overly sophisticated for the American
eye... On the other hand, the failure to sign the Geneva Convention
does leave them rather open to shootings, hangings and beheadings.

I've always been amused by the story of Aonghas Òg.

Domhnall Gorm Mòr (the chief of the MacDonalds) married a sister of
Ruairi Mòr (the chief of the MacLeods). She was very ugly, and had
only one eye.

After a year and a day Domhnall Gorm sent her home on a
one-eyed horse, with a one-eyed groom, and a one­eyed dog. She was
known as "a' Chailleach Cham" ('The One-eyed Crone:). Not terribly
subtle, and not suprisingly, war broke out between the MacDonalds and
the MacLeods. At this time Aonghus Òg (Young Angus) was the Captain of
the men of Sleat, the MacDonald clansmen.

At the Battle of Coire na Creiche, Aonghus Òg fought so well that he
got too far ahead of his men and the MacLeods closed round him and
took him prisoner. He was taken to Dunvegan and sentenced to be hanged
by MacLeod.

But MacLeod was reluctant to put such a valiant warrior to death and
thought he might persuade him to become one of his own men. Aonghus Òg
was put on the scaffold, the noose round his neck and then
propositioned by MacLeod, who promised him his life if he would marry
his sister and switch sides to fight for the MacLeods.

Aonghas Òg asked if he might see the sister first. The sister was
brought out and her charms displayed. Aonghus Òg then turned to the
hangman and said: "Suas a seo mi!" ('String me up!').

I've always felt this to be a superb example of the ultimate insult!

That took place in 1601 and is an excellent example of the sheer
viciousness of those days. Poor woman. The Battle of Coire na Creiche
is also known as the War of the One-eyed Woman. The name Coire na
Creiche itself tells you all about Highland customs - it's a
depression (Coire, or Corrie in English means a cooking kettle) where
cattle that had been stolen from someone else were kept, presumably
intil the heat died down.

Continuing with the theme of insulting women, in Kilmuir (like Kilmore
on Skye and Kilmorie on Rum; they all refer to Saint Mary), an area
about five miles north of Uig, in Trotternish, a district often called
An Fearann Stapagach; "Land of Cream" because it is so fertile; there
is a Martin family graveyard. The Martins are a famous family in Skye,
esp. an historian called Martin Martin, died 1719.

One Martin, called Angus of the Wind - the storm, rather than
digestive troubles - was a wild man living at the time of Queen
Elizabeth of England, who brought a stone back from Iona to enhance
the graveyard, carrying it on his own back from the shore to the
graveyard; a fair five mile walk.

He was married to a sister of the MacDonald chief (his second
marriage) and his brother-in law married a Maclean whom Angus heartily
despised. Angus had some local fame as an amateur port and she begged
him constantly to compose an ode in her honour. Finally he composed a
quatrain for her.

You promised not to get enraged
You red-eyed, pockmarked ruddy-faced old bag,
*We* paid dearly for your dowry
Woe to him who's got you for life!

He was definitely persona non grata at Dunvegan for a long time...

Oddballs weren't confined to Skye though - this story from Uist by
Martin MacDonald writing in the West Highland Free Press in 2003 gives
a fine example of how tough it was to be an ordinary person in days
gone by...  

With a few honourable exceptions, 19th century Highland landlords were
a pretty squalid bunch, avid for coin and short on humanity. But the
most callous of the lot was Colonel John Gordon of Cluny in
Aberdeenshire, mid-century laird of South Uist and Barra. His name is
still a by-word for brutality in the islands. His daughter-in-law and
successor, Lady Gordon Cathcart, was no sweet blossom either.

But let's not lay all the blame on incomers. The last of their native
Macdonald chiefs hardly served the islanders well. A warning of
changing times hit Uist in 1770 when a local tacksman, Colin Macdonald
of Boisdale, forsook Catholicism and moved to the Protestant church.
Personal belief is surely a matter for the individual's conscience,
but he didn't rest at that. Waving his yellow cane he tried to drive
his reluctant sub-tenants into church before him. Creideamh a' bhata
bhuidhe is how the incident is still known in Uist - "the creed of the
yellow stick".

Fortunately for the Macdonald name another of the clan came to the
rescue. John Macdonald of Glenaladale in Moidart was "a man of many
accomplishments and goodness of heart", according to the Clan Donald
history (written, incidentally, by two Presbyterian ministers). In
1772 he sold Glenaladale and gave the name to land he bought in Prince
Edward Island on which he made room for his Moidart tenantry and 100
of the persecuted Uibhistich (the people of Uist). It was a voluntary
emigration to freedom.

But by the dawn of the 19th century emigration was discouraged by
every possible means in Uist. The landlord needed a labour-force to
cut his seaweed and service his highly-profitable kelp industry. And
the way to do that was to give people tiny crofts that allowed them a
bare subsistence, and forced them to labour on the shores for a wage
that would pay their rents but not allow them to save to cross the
Atlantic.

And the landlord? Another once-chiefly Macdonald turned entrepreneur.
Ranald Macdonald of Clanranald succeeded to the clan lands in South
Uist and Moidart as a minor under trustees in 1794. By the time he
came of age around 1810 the bright lights of London had already
beguiled him. He became MP for an English "rotten borough" and married
Lady Caroline Edgcumb, daughter of the Earl of Mount-Edgcumb. And for
the next couple of decades the cold toil of the Uist crofters and the
vast profits of the kelp industry kept the pair of them in the style
her daddy expected.

(My note: I've always thought that Ranald Macdonald of Clanranald,
known to English society as "Clanranald Macdonald" was, to quote my
grandfather, "one of the biggest sh.ts ever to walk the streets of
London".) Here, to show you what still goes on in the Highlands, are
some pictures of the Macdonald chiefs reinforcing their still not
inconsiderable influence today.  

http://www.scotsheraldry.com/Scotsheraldry/Finlaggan.htm
Note the long eagle's pinion feathers that only a chief may wear.

It couldn't last, of course. After the Napoleonic Wars kelp prices
tumbled as a cheaper Spanish product flooded the market. So how to
sustain the London lifestyle? Why, the same answer as other Highland
lairds were discovering, of course - clear vast tracts of the best
land for profitable sheep farms. And if the now-redundant labour-force
couldn't escape overseas just dump them in the already-overcrowded
plots by the shore. Clanranald's factor prepared such a plan for South
Uist and the early stages were being carried out when impending
bankruptcy forced the sale of the estate in 1837.

Enter the devil in the person of the Aberdeenshire-based Colonel
Gordon.
He showed no remorse in forcing the scheme to its limits. When potato
blight hit the West Highlands in the late 1840s, he refused to
co-operate in a government-sponsored scheme to provide people with an
emergency meal supply. A government official, Captain Pole, warned
that if he took no action "scenes would occur in South Uist, Barra and
Benbecula which would be disgraceful to his name, and injurious to the
reputation of Great Britain."

Prophetic words. In the three years till 1851 he evicted around 2,000
families from Uist and Barra. Men who tried to resist, or escape to
the hills, were harried by bailiffs, policemen and dogs. In front of
hysterical wives and screaming children they were bound hand and foot,
and tossed into the holds of emigrant ships at Lochboisdale pier. Two
teenage sisters were still hiding in the hills when the ships sailed
with their parents and brothers and sisters. Families were separated
like human chattels at a slave market.

Their arrival in Canada caused a scandal. The 'Quebec Times' in 1851
reported bands of starving islanders, few of whom spoke English,
scattered along the banks of the St Lawrence river. An appalled
quarantine officer wrote that he had never seen "a body of emigrants
so destitute of clothing and bedding; many children of nine and ten
years old had not a rag to cover them". Gordon had made absolutely no
provision for the people he so callously threw out.

At home, the people of South Uist were cowed and broken. Fear stalked
the island. Thirty years later the Land League activist John Murdoch
reported the crofters were terrified to attend his meetings in case of
punitive measures by the estate.

By that time Lady Gordon Cathcart was the landlord. In her 54 years of
tenure until her death in 1935 she is reputed to have visited the
island at least once. The 1886 Crofters Act had given the crofters
security of tenure, of course, but it did nothing for the hundreds of
poverty-stricken landless cottars who survived on the crofters'
charity. Nor did her ladyship, exercising her power through her
resident factor, Mr Paterson.

There was a brief blink of hope in 1891 when South Uist voters elected
a Land League supporter, the famous Fr Allan Macdonald, Eriskay, to
the newly-created Inverness County Council. But he had to resign
through illness, and despite assurances from the Skye Land League
contingent on the council that they had a candidate ready to stand for
the vacancy, the landlord majority on the council refused to hold an
election. They simply co-opted Paterson to fill the gap. The estate
stranglehold was as tight as ever.

When Paterson retired in 1901 a small and select group (the banker, a
couple of schoolmasters and merchants, and a few estate lackeys) met
in Lochboisdale Hotel to wine him and dine him and fawn in gratitude.
A few days later half the populace of the island followed pipers to
the top of a hillside to the south of Lochboisdale, and danced with
great glee round a massive bonfire to celebrate his going. Speeches
were made to the effect that Lady Gordon Cathcart would see justice
done to her loyal tenantry now that his malign influence had gone.

Not a hope. So the crofters and cottars began to raid the sheep farms
that were once their grandparents'. But even when the Congested
Districts Board, a government development agency, said they would help
crofters with stock and housing if she let crofts at a fair rent the
lady would not be moved - though she did offer to sell the farms to
the CDB at exorbitant prices their budget could not match. It was 1924
before a final outbreak of post-World War I land raiding brought them
under crofting tenure.

For the past half-century the Uibhistich have enjoyed the
fairly-benign ownership of a syndicate whose basic interests are sport
and fishing. No one will ever again be hog-tied on Lochboisdale pier
and thrown into an emigrant ship. Equally, no one pretends that the
challenge of community ownership is a panacea for all ills in all
circumstances. But it can prevent the stifling inertia of
unsympathetic landlordship, which is still quite possible. A community
that has suffered so grimly, but survived so resiliently, should
consider it well.
The Highlander - 09 Nov 2007 15:33 GMT
>Those of us who have read some History, and therefore REMEMBER when Britain
>was GREAT, still occasionally say and write GREAT BRITAIN out of fond and
>somewhat wistful nostalgia and respect.
>
>We are fully aware that it's neither accurate nor Politically Correct.

We are bullshitting again! We are telling the world that we know
absolutely f*ck all outside the narrow confines of whatever we have
leaned from that helpmeet of the semi-literate, American middleclass -
the  Reader's Digest.

>DSH
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>> "Great Britain" as a whole island.  "Britain" means the United Kingdom
>> (however configured.)
D. Spencer Hines - 12 Nov 2007 04:59 GMT
If not on the BBC then, which English reporters are we talking about?

DSH

> O.K.
>
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>>
>> Andrew Swallow
D. Spencer Hines - 28 Nov 2007 18:53 GMT
> Well, I wouldn't go that far, but Thatcher, more than anyone else,
> destroyed the essential nature (or culture) of this country. She forced
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> I could go on. I get so angry when I think about it!

Renia Simmonds -- British Expatriatrix in Athens, Greece
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's quite an indictment of Baroness Thatcher -- former British Prime
Minister.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Thatcher>

Destroyed the Family...

Just how did she singlehandedly "Destroy The Family"?

Bonkers!

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas
 
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