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History Forum / General / British History / December 2007Jefferson: "No Government Ought To Be Without Censors"
"No government ought to be without censors & where the press is free, no one ever will." -- Thomas Jefferson (letter to George Washington, 9 September 1792) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Indeed... But the Government needs its OWN internal censors to censor the LEAKERS. And in WARTIME today, just as was the case during World War II, we need lots of SELF-CENSORSHIP by Government, particularly the Federal Government. President Bush understands that but has been unable to make it so. We also need Hollywood cranking out more patriotic movies -- FDR insisted on it during that earlier Global War. DSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas Deus Vult > "No government ought to be without censors & where the press is free, no one > ever will." > > -- Thomas Jefferson (letter to George Washington, 9 September 1792) Some of TJ's true colors coming out. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > DSH Bullshit. We need truth from the government. Nothing more and nothing less. (Remember that they're supposed to be working FOR us?) Read Jefferson more closely -- you're misunderstanding. Also keep in mind FDR was Assistant Secretary of the Navy [a very important job in those days, #2 at the Navy Department] during World War I and very well understood the necessity for Government Self-Censorship during Wartime and the need for Good Propaganda in Wartime. Hence Frank Capra's _Why We Fight_ films, and Good, Rousing War Films during World War II. Today, silly-arsed "Liberals" such as Robert Redford and Brian De Palma, as well as many other simpering Democrats, don't understand that. DSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas >> "No government ought to be without censors & where the press is free, no >> one ever will." >> >> -- Thomas Jefferson (letter to George Washington, 9 September 1792) > > Some of TJ's true colors coming out. Read Jefferson more closely. DSH >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> >> DSH >Read Jefferson more closely -- you're misunderstanding. No, you are misunderstanding. Plus, you deliberately censored the quotation to make it appear to say what you want it to mean. Here's someone who puts Jefferson's words in their proper context: "There is a reason that the Founders included in the First Amendment absolute protections of a free press. It's because a free press plays an indispensable role in imposing checks on the Government. But it does so only when it is adversarial, not when it uncritically recites the Government's views. Thomas Jefferson explained that long ago in a letter to George Washingon: "'No government ought to be without censors, and where the press is free, no one ever will. If virtuous, it need not fear the fair operation of attack and defence. Nature has given to man no other means of sifting out the truth whether in religion, law or politics. I think it as honorable to the government neither to know nor notice its sycophants or censors, as it would be undignified and criminal to pamper the former and persecute the latter.' "The Founders viewed the press as a 'censor' of the Government, as an opposing force, not as some mindless vehicle for reciting and disseminating the Government's claims. It serves as a check on government deceit and abuses of power only when it sees itself as something more than a microphone for the Government to use to amplify its statements." http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/12/media-as-adversary-to-government.html James > On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:26:52 -0000, "D. Spencer Hines" > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > No, you are misunderstanding. Plus, you deliberately censored the > quotation to make it appear to say what you want it to mean. Yes, it's truly amazing how he misunderstood that thing. One of Jefferson's less noble actions was putting some news hack up to defaming Adams. It was probably poiltically understandable in terms of the times and the magnitude of the governmental arguments taking place, but it was still underhanded tactics. > Here's someone who puts Jefferson's words in their proper context: > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > James > > On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:26:52 -0000, "D. Spencer Hines" > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > the times and the magnitude of the governmental arguments taking > place, but it was still underhanded tactics. TJ while a brilliant politician was also the sleaziest politician in american history. his good outweighs his bad but he was no saint by anymeans. of course in those days they all were sleazy and todays pols are amatures in comparison. >> On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:26:52 -0000, "D. Spencer Hines" >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Yes, it's truly amazing how he misunderstood that thing. I don't find it amazing. It's yet another example of the Orwellian Newspeak that Hines so often uses. I notice that the censorial tosser has gone very silent in this thread. The anti-leaking interracialist has cut and run, embarrassed at being exposed for his travesty of Jefferson based on a lmited understanding of eighteenth-century English. He finds consolation in writing banal oneliners about the Toyota Avalon, a subject more suited to his limited intellectual capacity. And to prevent further misunderstanding on the Commander's part, he should be informed that Jefferson was not referring to the Avalon's "3,456 cc 3.5 liters V 6 front engine with 94.0 mm bore, 83.1 mm stroke, 10.8 compression ratio, double overhead cam, variable valve timing/camshaft and four valves per cylinder 2GR-FE" when he wrote about "The most effectual engines for this purpose". James Needing no introduction "an" Usenet stalwart wrote: >Read Jefferson more closely -- you're misunderstanding. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Lux et Veritas et Libertas si censenda nobis atque aestimanda res sit magno opere censeo desistas >>> "No government ought to be without censors & where the press is free, no >>> one ever will." [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >>> >>> DSH  Signature-- Bryn Dying cricket--- how full of life, his song. Bashõ >> "No government ought to be without censors & where the press is free, no one >> ever will." >> >> -- Thomas Jefferson (letter to George Washington, 9 September 1792) > > Some of TJ's true colors coming out. Not at all. It's just that you and Hines have failed to understand what Jefferson meant. He was using the word censor in the old sense of "one who supervises morals or conduct". He was glad that the free press is there to keep a close eye on the actions of those in government. >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Indeed... >> >> But the Government needs its OWN internal censors to censor the LEAKERS. And here Hines has changed the subject to the only meaning of "censor" that he knows, the kind that acts AGAINST the freedom of the press. Par for the course. >> And in WARTIME today, just as was the case during World War II, we need lots >> of SELF-CENSORSHIP by Government, particularly the Federal Government. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >> DSH The twit can't even understand what he reads. Get a dictionary. It pays to increase your word power. > Bullshit. We need truth from the government. Nothing more and >nothing less. >(Remember that they're supposed to be working FOR us?) That's what Jefferson meant but w.nker Hines can't understand. James >>> "No government ought to be without censors & where the press is free, no >>> one >>> ever will." > Not at all. It's just that you and Hines have failed to understand > what Jefferson meant. Scarcely credible isn't it? Some people think that the idiot hines is a troll - IMO he really *is* that stupid. >>> On Dec 17, 1:55 pm, "D. Spencer Hines" <pant...@excelsior.com> >>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Some people think that the idiot hines is a troll - IMO he really > *is* that stupid. I think he's both. SignatureJohn Briggs > > On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:59:40 -0800 (PST), "deemsb...@aol.com" > > <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Some people think that the idiot hines is a troll - IMO he really *is* that > stupid. I think you are confusing the senility of impending Alzhaeimer's and that psycho one somebody mentioned with natural human response. He is "becoming" stupid, unable to distinguish events or statements one from another, he constantly digs back into his dossiers, or starts a new thread because he can't find the one he wants to add to. The CIA thread is an example. >I think you are confusing the senility of impending Alzhaeimer's and >that psycho one somebody mentioned with natural human response. He is >"becoming" stupid, unable to distinguish events or statements one from >another, he constantly digs back into his dossiers, or starts a new >thread because he can't find the one he wants to add to. The CIA >thread is an example. Be grateful it's not MI5! > On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:57:38 -0800 (PST), Jack Linthicum > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Be grateful it's not MI5! This must be the season for the multicasting morons, another newsgroup I monitor is beset by a anti-h nut. >> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:57:38 -0800 (PST), Jack Linthicum >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > This must be the season for the multicasting morons, another newsgroup > I monitor is beset by a anti-h nut. Per'aps that is w'ere 'e needs to make 'is 'ome. SignatureAndrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) Needing no introduction "an" Usenet stalwart wrote: >> "No government ought to be without censors & where the press is free, no one >> ever will." [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >nothing less. >(Remember that they're supposed to be working FOR us?) WHAT? Signature-- Bryn Dying cricket--- how full of life, his song. Bashõ >> Bullshit. We need truth from the government. Nothing more and >>nothing less. How can we expect truth from the government when we persist in electing liars to the legislature? >>(Remember that they're supposed to be working FOR us?) > >WHAT? Yep - I think that one ranks right up there with "the cheque's in the mail" and "we'll call you back". Eugene L Griessel To every man is given the key to the gates of heaven. The same key opens the gates of hell. - Siddhartha Gautama - I usually post only from Sci.Military.Naval - > >> Bullshit. We need truth from the government. Nothing more and > >>nothing less. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > - I usually post only from Sci.Military.Naval - I'm a uniter not a divider Needing no introduction "an" Usenet stalwart wrote: >> >> Bullshit. We need truth from the government. Nothing more and >> >>nothing less. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >I'm a uniter not a divider I am up there with Sid, least ways I was until his toe turned black an' dropped off... SignatureBryn But Sakalya did not know him, and so his head did fall off. And robbers stole his bones thinking they were something else. v26 (end of) Brihadarnayaka Upanishad > Needing no introduction "an" Usenet stalwart wrote: >>> >> Bullshit. We need truth from the government. Nothing more and [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > I am up there with Sid, least ways I was until his toe turned black an' > dropped off... How charming. Signature"For the stronger we our houses do build, The less chance we have of being killed." - William Topaz McGonagall Needing no introduction "an" Usenet stalwart wrote: >> Needing no introduction "an" Usenet stalwart wrote: >>>> >> Bullshit. We need truth from the government. Nothing more and [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > >How charming. The lotus position, way to go... SignatureBryn Buddha's death-day old hands clicking rosaries. Bashõ On Dec 17, 3:58 pm, Bryn <Scotland-the- Br...@finhall.GREMLINSdemon.co.uk> wrote: > Needing no introduction "an" Usenet stalwart wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > WHAT? Hey, it's a nice thought. > -- > -- > Bryn > "No government ought to be without censors & where the press is free, no one > ever will." [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > But the Government needs its OWN internal censors to censor the LEAKERS. Yes, Neocon Libby is a good example of someone who should have been stopped from leaking CIA agent Plame's identity. Of course, your corrupt little jesus chimp commuted his sentence after his conviction. I just wonder why... > And in WARTIME today, just as was the case during World War II, we need lots > of SELF-CENSORSHIP by Government, particularly the Federal Government. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > We also need Hollywood cranking out more patriotic movies -- FDR insisted on > it during that earlier Global War. Yes, but the themes would have to be updated for current audiences.. I think,,, something playing on the *rights* of obese Walmart customers to continue their ever increasing consumption of energy consuming gadgets and petroleum products for their 800 horse power SUVs (neccesary to contain and move their supersized bodies), with evil-doers trying to deny them those rights, and jesus inspired American heroes using video game technology to send them to satan. It'll sell, which is what counts. > DSH > > Lux et Veritas et Libertas Inded. > Deus Vult > > "No government ought to be without censors & where the press is free, no one > > ever will." [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > > Deus Vult "Charlie Wilson's War" Got to tell a story. My wife belongs to the Daughters of the American Revolution. One of her sister DARs had a policeman in her house for a burglary inspection. The cop saw her DAR Certificate on the wall and told her "you ladies should stop playing around with stuff against the government, we have enough to do with the terrorists". As near as I can tell the nearest accused terrorist in Florida is one of those six guys they had a hung jury on the other day. The only way you could have improved on this post, would have been to include alt.eroctica.donkeys in the group addresses.... ;-))) >The only way you could have improved on this post, would have been to >include alt.eroctica.donkeys in the group addresses.... Mmmmmmmm, my ISP doesn't appear to carry that one ! -- jjj On Dec 17, 10:46 pm, Josiah Jenkins <josiah-jenk...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote: > >The only way you could have improved on this post, would have been to > >include alt.eroctica.donkeys in the group addresses.... > > Mmmmmmmm, my ISP doesn't appear to carry that one ! > > -- jjj I think you have to search Hines' posting history to find it. I say again: Read Jefferson more closely -- you're misunderstanding. Also keep in mind FDR was Assistant Secretary of the Navy [a very important job in those days, #2 at the Navy Department] during World War I and very well understood the necessity for Government Self-Censorship during Wartime and the need for Good Propaganda in Wartime. Hence Frank Capra's _Why We Fight_ films, and Good, Rousing War Films during World War II. Today, silly-arsed "Liberals" such as Robert Redford and Brian De Palma, as well as many other simpering Democrats, don't understand that. DSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas <deemsbill@aol.com> wrote in message news:0a3662f5-065f-4491-b3a4-8a4c31613028@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com... > On Dec 17, 1:55 pm, "D. Spencer Hines" <pant...@excelsior.com> wrote: >> "No government ought to be without censors & where the press is free, no >> one ever will." >> >> -- Thomas Jefferson (letter to George Washington, 9 September 1792) > > Some of TJ's true colors coming out. Read Jefferson more closely. DSH >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> >> DSH |
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