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History Forum / General / British History / May 2008Angry-Left-Wing Academics Who Don't Understand The Warrior Culture
> "Vincent Brannigan" <firelaw@firelaw.us> wrote in message > news:gc5Zj.5283$ah.4201@trnddc06... Did Brannigan rebel against his father and mother at an early age?... >> of course >> politely but yes Pogue Brannigan -- University of Maryland, College Park He probably erred severely there. They were both naval officers and I'll bet they could have taught him a lot more, if he had listened -- even some things about the Warrior Culture and Warrior Ethic. When he is older, he MAY understand that better. It is a Great Mistake to think that Warriors just take orders all the time and don't think for themselves. > I'm sure they think for themselves in carrying out orders > but its stillorders [sic] or they are just free lance [sic] killers [sic] Pogue Brannigan Nope. Brannigan is Dead Wrong there. The critical, collaborative and creative thinking involved would astound Pogue Brannigan. Hard Intellectual & Practical Work. Very Difficult. Brannigan, in concert with many Angry Left-Wing Academics, suffers under the grave misconception that men and women in the Armed Forces are "grunts" -- not very smart, "just following orders" ---- and certainly not creative, independent thinkers. DSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas Warriors ---- "There is much tradition and mystique in the bequest of personal weapons to a surviving comrade in arms. It has to do with a continuation of values past individual mortality. People living in a time made safe for them by others may find this difficult to understand." _Hannibal_, Thomas Harris, Delacorte Press, [1999], p. 397. > Did Brannigan rebel against his father and mother at an early age?... > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > When he is older, he MAY understand that better. Demented academic hot air bags aside, what kind of "warrior culture" could support a draft dodger for VP, and a stupid rich kid who used daddy's political contacts to evade any dangerous wartime duty? The "warrior culture" in the US is evolving toward guys looking for large paychecks, who could care less about national objectives when they use their automatic weapons to spray down civilians because there might be a threat somewhere to their "noun". >>Did Brannigan rebel against his father and mother at an early age?... >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > automatic weapons to spray down civilians because there might be a threat > somewhere to their "noun". Let's not forget that one of the values of warrior culture is to take care of one's own men rather than let them languish in horrid conditions and not to ruin the career of a respected and able leader with political nonsense. | >>Did Brannigan rebel against his father and mother at an early age?... | >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] | and not to ruin the career of a respected and able leader with political | nonsense. Just passing by. Here's some definitions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrior The US absolutely does not have a warrior class. The military academies are graduating the managerial classes. Somewhere in my past history from private to colonel, from jump school to The National War College, I heard the words of Attila, or maybe Genghis written down as that the greatest joy is to kill all of the enemy's men, enslave their women, kill all the male children, and march the slaves past the mounds of the dead enemy. Something like that. Very much different than anything the US has ever done. Or any other modern civilization, for that matter. What I heard about that period of history is that warriors followed the supreme warrior to share in the victory spoils of war. No mention of caring for anyone, not even their own. Less loot to share that way. Many stories of isolated fortified cities, making a pact to surrender, then having their chiefs cut into pieces, and the obligatory raping, looting, and slavery. Whether that was Attila or Genghis I don't remember, but we are far away from any "warrior culture" today. So billz according to you, the military academy's don't produce warriors. They make managers. No wonder you army idiots keep being defeated by untrained, uneducated desert dwellers and farmers. >| >>Did Brannigan rebel against his father and mother at an early age?... >| >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >| and not to ruin the career of a respected and able leader with political >| nonsense. >Just passing by. Here's some definitions. >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrior >The US absolutely does not have a warrior class. The military academies >are graduating the managerial classes. >Somewhere in my past history from private to colonel, from jump school to > The National War College, I heard the words of Attila, or maybe Genghis [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >was Attila or Genghis I don't remember, but we are far away from any >"warrior culture" today. you can always find a good laugh here!!! zzzz boy has always been asleep on his watch! What the morons failed to understand is that the Warrior Culture starved to death, because everyone neglected the Farmer Culture. America and Americans are pretty stupid sad to say. For all my time on this earth for more then half of a century my country has been at War, with new enemy's, old enemy's,and even old friends in dozens of country's directly involved or in the least covertly involved with little or nothing to show for all of our efforts, except War Memorials and Holiday's. Are we powerful? Sort of! Are we wealthy? no not really, is our economy bullit proof? I guess like a Hummer is IED proof. Do we lead the world to better tomorrows, nope! Our greatest export to the whole world is fear, killing and providing many of the tools to do it, to the morons and like Reagan to even the same morons we have problems with. Iran is just another of our failures from the past to haunt us just as Afghanistan and Iraq!. America has placed "the American Interests" far and above the American people, or for that fact any peoples of this planet. You can't champion FREEDOM and DEMOCRACY, then attack everyones privacy and embrace "Rule of Law" by ignoring your very own laws and those of other nations then sell a shitload of weapons to kill in many cases your/their own people! It used to be Live and Let Live, but apparently Corpotrate Christianity is failing itself and has made it's own failures to lay blame on the Muslim Nations. As we muster for war against Iran for (as we did for Iraq) using the NUKEYLURE scare word..... I find it funny how Israel is both protected and defended and it's Nuke Arsenal is ignored and denied at best by all of America....You know it's sad when SECURITY appears to be only real issues in America and Israel... I guess that's why Israel gets to export all it's security models and equipment to the United States, and if the fear factor was missing...they'd be broke! Gee maybe that Zionist Religious State with beach front property in a Muslim Region wasn't the brightest idea eh? DUH! But what everyone fails to understand is that if your in the business of rules and regulations and the enforcement thereof, it has to be across the board.....otherwise it's all for naught....unless War is your ONLY mainstay! Your only claim to fame! Funny though.... The Muslim Nations apparently are by far wealthier then America I guess when all you do is invest in wars, it's the Memorials. the ribbons and medals that count! (until you try to cash them in) > So billz according to you, the military academy's don't produce warriors. > They make managers. [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > >was Attila or Genghis I don't remember, but we are far away from any > >"warrior culture" today. <G> DSH > So billz according to you, the military academy's don't produce warriors. > They make managers. > > No wonder you army idiots keep being defeated by untrained, uneducated > desert dwellers and farmers. > So billz according to you, the military academy's don't produce warriors. > They make managers. > > No wonder you army idiots keep being defeated by untrained, uneducated > desert dwellers and farmers. Define 'defeated' here please.  SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. >> So billz according to you, the military academy's [sic] don't produce warriors. >> They make managers. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Define 'defeated' here please. The "c" in the middle of the word is missing. James Give it up right winger. I'm not going to play your right wign kook word games. -- We lost the Vietnam war, and we have lost the iraq war. >> So billz according to you, the military academy's don't produce warriors. >> They make managers. >> >> No wonder you army idiots keep being defeated by untrained, uneducated >> desert dwellers and farmers. >Define 'defeated' here please. > > So billz according to you, the military academy's don't produce warriors. > > They make managers. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Define 'defeated' here please. It's how our drug using friend feels every day ? Signature"Oh Norman, listen! The loons are calling!" - Katherine Hepburn, "On Golden Pond" > | >>Did Brannigan rebel against his father and mother at an early age?... > | >> [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > slavery. Whether that was Attila or Genghis I don't remember, but we are > far away from any "warrior culture" today. There are a lot of people who are the fringes of the "Warrior Culture" who think that by espousing its apparent principles they will become part of it. Anyone who dreams up armed encounters and dangerous situations and then can't quite place them in history or location is fooling himself. Just biting a pretty girl on the a.s, dropping your pants at a wedding reception or jumping off a two-story building doesn't make you a warrior. Neither is not riding a dud aircraft into the ground or at least away from populated areas "Warrior". My favorite non-warrior moment was the DER skipper who manuevered his ship into the middle of a group of three Russian ships and when one of them started to back down on him got the message from the engine room "Captain, we have enough air for one more start." He ran. On May 28, 8:00 am, Jack Linthicum <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net> wrote: > > "Larry Swain" <gi...@poetic.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > them started to back down on him got the message from the engine room > "Captain, we have enough air for one more start." He ran. Soldiers tend to kick warriors' butts. >> | >>Did Brannigan rebel against his father and mother at an early age?... >> | >> [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > them started to back down on him got the message from the engine room > "Captain, we have enough air for one more start." He ran. Hines keeps expounding on the "warrior class" of which he supposedly is a proud member. Somehow, I can't get the visual out of my head of a photo of a muu-muu attired, lei-donned, mai-tai sipping armchair commander sitting in front of a computer screen with the words WARRIOR CLASS (Made in the USA) pencilled in under the photo out of my head. It may not scare terrorists, but it sure scares me ...%) - nilita > >> "Larry Swain" <gi...@poetic.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] > > - nilita Since the US has never had a warrior class, I'd call it more of a fraternity :-) >>>| >>Did Brannigan rebel against his father and mother at an early age?... >>>| >> [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > pencilled in under the photo out of my head. It may not scare terrorists, > but it sure scares me ...%) He like his hero Shrub and the o so brave Dickhead Cheney probably never saw action, and so have to make up for it by being "hawks". > | >>Did Brannigan rebel against his father and mother at an early age?... > | >> [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > slavery. Whether that was Attila or Genghis I don't remember, but we are > far away from any "warrior culture" today. I'm pretty sure that was Conan the Barbarian :-) >>>>> Did Brannigan rebel against his father and mother at an early >>>>> age?... [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > I'm pretty sure that was Conan the Barbarian :-) Which is where all this "warrior" nonsense comes from, anyway. (And science fiction. I'm reminded of the very silly film "Millenium" (1989), where Cheryl Ladd plays a time-traveller from the future trying to blend in with 20th century American society, and says that she had lived overseas as a child, as "My father was a warrior"! She gets odd looks... It is a trifle alarming that the usage should have spread to the US Armed Forces, but not, I suppose, entirely surprising.) SignatureJohn Briggs > deemsb...@aol.com wrote: > >> "Larry Swain" <gi...@poetic.com> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > -- > John Briggs According to the Random House Dictionary, the term warrior has two meanings. The first literal use refers to "a person engaged or experienced in warfare." The second figurative use refers to "a person who shows or has shown great vigor, courage, or aggressiveness, as in politics or athletics." (notice "or" in the second definition, not "and") On May 28, 10:10 am, Jack Linthicum <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net> wrote: > > deemsb...@aol.com wrote: > > >> "Larry Swain" <gi...@poetic.com> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 72 lines] > politics or athletics." (notice "or" in the second definition, not > "and") Using warrior for the latter is an insult to the former :-) Historically, warrior has been used to differentiate tribal-type fighters from more organized soldiers. The warrior as "noble barbarian" and all that crap. Soldiers usually hand warriors their heads, but the warriors have gotten lucky enough times to keep it honest. -------------------------- Historically, warrior has been used to differentiate tribal-type fighters from more organized soldiers. The warrior as "noble barbarian" and all that crap. Soldiers usually hand warriors their heads, but the warriors have gotten lucky enough times to keep it honest. ------------------------------ Five warriors can beat ten soldiers. A hundred soldiers can beat a whole tribe... SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. > deemsb...@aol.com wrote: > >> "Larry Swain" <gi...@poetic.com> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > -- > John Briggs The Marines have always gone with the warrior thing....partly for the macho image and partly because they resent being lumped in with the Army pukes as soldiers. >> I'm pretty sure that was Conan the Barbarian :-) > >Which is where all this "warrior" nonsense comes from, anyway. Bill Safire wrote a column about the increasing prevalence of the word. He prefers it to the Defense Department's term "servicemember". He has this to say about one of the possible alternatives: "Freedom fighter, once an honored designation, has been corrupted in current usage by insurgents or terrorists claiming the title." Pity he didn't try to explain the difference between an insurgent and a freedom fighter. Anyway, freedom fighter is a dodgy term because it's ambiguous. If you compare it with fire fighter it could be construed to mean someone who seeks to extinguish freedom. Read the whole article at http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/26/magazine/26wwln-safire-t.html >(And science fiction. I'm reminded of the very silly film "Millenium" That was shown in Scotland under the title "Millennium" (a thousand years as opposed to a thousand arseholes). James Brannigan. Hard Intellectual & Practical Work. Very Difficult. > Brannigan, in concert with many Angry Left-Wing Academics, suffers under the > grave misconception that men and women in the Armed Forces are "grunts" -- > not very smart, "just following orders" ---- and certainly not creative, > independent thinkers. But where there is an independently thinking warrior, thinking is all he can do outside the scope of his orders, for the military system RELIES on curtailing individual initiative, so that large concentrations of personnel can be controlled reliably. Mr. Hines extolling of the free thinking warrior, is analogous to the exaltation of the freedom of bacteria in penicillin. The military is an INHIBITOR of personal initiative by design. Any personal freedom and initiative left over operates always inside a sandbox of varying sizes. It is tantamount to imprisoning one's intellect. The higher the rank the better the prison, but prison still. It's one of life's choices. A military career can heap honor and gratitude from those being served by it, and rightly so, but it is silly to deny the essential characteristics of military life, and lack of individual freedom, relative to civilian life, is one of them. > Brannigan. Hard Intellectual & Practical Work. Very Difficult. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > RELIES on curtailing individual initiative, so that large > concentrations of personnel can be controlled reliably. Thinking and initiative are encouraged....within the scope of orders, of course :-) > Mr. Hines extolling of the free thinking warrior, is analogous to the > exaltation of the freedom of bacteria in penicillin. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > the better the prison, but prison still. It's one of life's > choices. It's really only a matter of degree. Unless you work for yourself, we all have constraints with regards to our work performance and environments. Even when self-employed, the cutomers are going to put restraints on you....well, if you want to be successful. > A military career can heap honor and gratitude from those being served > by it, and rightly so, but it is silly to deny the essential > characteristics of military life, and lack of individual freedom, > relative to civilian life, is one of them. True. >> A military career can heap honor and gratitude from those being served >> by it, and rightly so, but it is silly to deny the essential >> characteristics of military life, and lack of individual freedom, >> relative to civilian life, is one of them. > True. Some willingly sacrifice their individual freedom so as to ensure that others may enjoy the benefit. Far too many people ignore that simple fact and some go so far as to denigrate those who willingly serve in far away lands under conditions likely to result in their death or dismemberment so that the denigrators are free to spout bullshit without worrying that their bullshit might bring about their own death or imprisonment. SignatureDon Thompson Stolen from Dan: "Just thinking, besides, I watched 2 dogs mating once, and that makes me an expert. " There is nothing more frightening than active ignorance. ~Goethe It is a worthy thing to fight for one's freedom; it is another sight finer to fight for another man's. ~Mark Twain > <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > that the denigrators are free to spout bullshit without worrying that their > bullshit might bring about their own death or imprisonment. No one has denigrated the military in this section of the thread. Saying that military personnel are far less free to act on their individuality than civilians is an accurate description. When choosing a military career very specific purposes are being served. Service to one's country by personal sacrifice is the main one. And what is being sacrificed, in addition of personal safety, is personal freedom. That the sacrifice is honorable doesn't make it less of a sacrifice. Those who want to attain the maximum development and expression of their individual talents, other than the talent to kill and destroy, don't choose the military to do it, for they will be necessarily inhibited. It is SILLY to extol the warrior's freedom as Mr. Hines does. Even kids know that soldier life is anything but a banquet of liberties, the fact that it's in the service of preserving the countries liberty notwithstanding. > > <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > the fact that it's in the service of preserving the countries liberty > notwithstanding. Actually, a warrior has a lot of individual freedom. A soldier doesn't as much. On May 28, 3:20 pm, "deemsb...@aol.com" <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote: > Actually, a warrior has a lot of individual freedom. A soldier > doesn't as much. A distinction without a difference. Next please. > On May 28, 3:20 pm, "deemsb...@aol.com" <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote: > > > Actually, a warrior has a lot of individual freedom. A soldier > > doesn't as much. > > A distinction without a difference. Next please. <poke> redc1c4, like you know anything about being either. %-) Signature"Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear considerable watching." Army Officer's Guide > On May 28, 3:20 pm, "deemsb...@aol.com" <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote: > > > Actually, a warrior has a lot of individual freedom. A soldier > > doesn't as much. > > A distinction without a difference. Next please. To you. > <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Don Thompson What bullshit has been spouted here? > Brannigan. Hard Intellectual & Practical Work. Very Difficult. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> not very smart, "just following orders" ---- and certainly not creative, >> independent thinkers. the difference between left wingers and right wingers is that rightwinger push for war and left wingers actually show up for it. there are no left wing chickenhawks., that is solely the province of the right > > Brannigan. Hard Intellectual & Practical Work. Very Difficult. > >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > there are no left wing chickenhawks., that is solely the province of the > right and you served with who, where, and when? redc1c4, just curious, but knowing the answer already. %-) Signature"Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear considerable watching." Army Officer's Guide > > > Brannigan. Hard Intellectual & Practical Work. Very Difficult. > > >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > and you served with who, where, and when? How would he ever know who he serviced ? The alleys are dark in the Tenderloin district.... "Oh Norman, listen! The loons are calling!" - Katherine Hepburn, "On Golden Pond" > In article <483E2C12.DF4E8F8D@drunkenbastards.org.ies>, redc1c4 > How would he ever know who he serviced ? > The alleys are dark in the Tenderloin district.... do tell? you sound like the voice of experience. you and the red are both fake namers who are very long on claims.... > > In article <483E2C12.DF4E8F8D@drunkenbastards.org.ies>, redc1c4 > > How would he ever know who he serviced ? > > The alleys are dark in the Tenderloin district.... > > do tell? > you sound like the voice of experience. Nope, just from what I read. And you didn't even bother to deny it either. > you and the red are both fake namers who are very long on claims.... Fake namers ? Like your name is really ray ohare Signature"Oh Norman, listen! The loons are calling!" - Katherine Hepburn, "On Golden Pond" >> > In article <483E2C12.DF4E8F8D@drunkenbastards.org.ies>, redc1c4 >> > How would he ever know who he serviced ? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Nope, just from what I read. > And you didn't even bother to deny it either. is your fantasy,visions of sailors in back alleys was the imagery your mind conjured up. >> you and the red are both fake namers who are very long on claims.... > > Fake namers ? > Like your name is really ray ohare no, its ray o'hara and yes it is. > >> > In article <483E2C12.DF4E8F8D@drunkenbastards.org.ies>, redc1c4 > >> > How would he ever know who he serviced ? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > is your fantasy,visions of sailors in back alleys was the imagery your mind > conjured up. Funny, i never mentioned sailors, you did... > >> you and the red are both fake namers who are very long on claims.... > > > > Fake namers ? > > Like your name is really ray ohare > > no, its ray o'hara and yes it is. Sure Signature"Oh Norman, listen! The loons are calling!" - Katherine Hepburn, "On Golden Pond" >> Brannigan, in concert with many Angry Left-Wing Academics, suffers under >> the grave misconception that men and women in the Armed Forces are [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > he can do outside the scope of his orders, for the military system > RELIES on curtailing individual initiative... [sop] Nonsense. > The military is an INHIBITOR of personal initiative by design. [sop] Utter Blather. Personal Initiative is Highly Prized in both officers and enlisted men and women. > It is tantamount to imprisoning one's intellect. [sop] Twaddle. Nothing of the sort is the case. The writer of that swill supra has obviously never had much contact with WARRIORS in the FIELD -- in the WILD -- just with BUREAUCRATIC MANAGERS inside the Beltway... A Totally Different Breed. DSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas Deus Vult > The writer of that swill supra has obviously never had much contact with > WARRIORS in the FIELD -- in the WILD -- just with BUREAUCRATIC MANAGERS > inside the Beltway... Warriors in the wild? Where, who? The vast majority of warriors are not "in the wild" they are in their respective units, and their lives are highly regulated by others. Their schedule and location is not up to them, nor is what to wear, what to eat, or when to go see their loved ones. They are cogs of in a military unit. And if they don't like it they can't quit on the spot, even if they have plenty of "f.ck you" money in the bank. If their initiatives are not endorsed by their superiors they go nowhere, they are SUBORDINATE and unfree compared to any civilian. Mr. Hines himself has sacrificed much of the capacity to think for himself, to some benefit for the country, one hopes. He is quite content to follow party leaders into the quicksand as if they were his generalissimos for life, even ineloquent, blundering ones. His lack of taste for evidence and his penchant for making gratuitous claims from authority indicate that he spent his formative years being told what to think and believe. It made him an avid Kool-aid drinker for life. "Bob Dole and Donna Shalala preside over the President’s Commission on Care for America’s Returning Wounded Warriors. The Military Officers Association of America, in testimony to Congress, calls for veterans’ benefits for “Guard and Reserve warriors.” "The Naval Academy in Annapolis has a course on “the code of the warrior,” and the U.S. Army’s Platoon Leader Development Course is now named the Warrior Leader Course and has issued a “Warrior Ethos” that begins: “I am an American Soldier. I am a Warrior and a member of a team.”" "The word connotes honor and bravery as well as fierceness in battle; after World War I, the British dedicated a tomb in Westminster Abbey to “the Unknown Warrior.” "It is a compliment: “Warrior” is the title of Ariel Sharon’s autobiography, written with David Chanoff, inscribed to a longtime supporter as “a warrior-journalist.” "Nor need it be taken as anti-intellectual: the quarterly American Interest has a cover article about warrior-scholars." Bill Safire <http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/26/magazine/26wwln-safire-t.html?_r=1&oref=slogin> ------------------------------------ We need more WARRIORS and fewer insipid BUREAUCRATIC MANAGERS of the "Billzz" Ilk. DSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas Deus Vult |
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