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History Forum / General / British History / June 2008George Washington On American National Character
"[T]he first transactions of a nation, like those of an individual upon his first entrance into life make the deepest impression, and are to form the leading traits in its character." -- George Washington (letter to John Armstrong, 25 April 1788) Reference: A Sacred Union of Citizens, Spalding and Garrity (10); original The Writings of George Washington from the Original Manuscript S > "[T]he first transactions of a nation, like those of an individual upon > his first entrance into life make the deepest impression, and are to form > the leading traits in its character." > > -- George Washington (letter to John Armstrong, 25 April 1788) Speaking of national charactristics: Just How Stupid Are We?: Facing the Truth About the American Voter (Hardcover) by Rick Shenkman (Author) From Publishers Weekly Shenkman (Presidential Ambition) makes the provocative argument that as American voters have gained political power in the last 50 years, they have become increasingly ignorant of politics and world affairs—and dangerously susceptible to manipulation. The book provides a litany of depressing statistics—most Americans cannot name their representatives in Congress, only 20% hold a passport, 30% cannot identify the Holocaust—as Shenkman inquires whether Americans are capable of voting in the nation's or even their own best interests. Although Shenkman clearly derives some pleasure in pointing out the stupidity and irrationality of the American public, his concern is genuine and heartfelt. In lucid, playful prose, he illustrates how politicians have repeatedly misled voters and analyzes the dumbing down of American politics via marketing, spin machines and misinformation. Shenkman initiates an important conversation in this book and makes welcome suggestions to reinvigorate civic responsibility and provide people with the knowledge and tools necessary to efficaciously participate in the political process. (June) > > "[T]he first transactions of a nation, like those of an individual upon > > his first entrance into life make the deepest impression, and are to form [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > The book provides a litany of depressing statistics—most Americans cannot > name their representatives in Congress Well, most don't vote for them. , only 20% hold a passport That's not really as big of a stat because visiting Canada, Mexico, the Bahamas, etc....the nations the vast majority travel to..... didn't need one. , 30% cannot > identify the Holocaust Only 30%?.....heck, I'd think it was higher. I'd be more concerned with what % deny that it happened. —as Shenkman inquires whether Americans are capable of > voting in the nation's or even their own best interests. This is a problem with all democracies. Most people are busy enough living their own lives that they can't/won't be bothered with things that aren't staring them in the face. > Although Shenkman clearly derives some pleasure in pointing out the > stupidity and irrationality of the American public, his concern is genuine [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > tools necessary to efficaciously participate in the political process. > (June) Please. Democracy is the best type of govt because the people get the govt they deserve. On Jun 23, 7:51 pm, "J A" <a...@re.com> wrote: > "D. Spencer Hines" <pant...@excelsior.com> wrote in > messagenews:IUP7k.215$LE.372@eagle.america.net... [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > The book provides a litany of depressing statistics—most Americans cannot > name their representatives in Congress Well, most don't vote for them. , only 20% hold a passport That's not really as big of a stat because visiting Canada, Mexico, the Bahamas, etc....the nations the vast majority travel to..... didn't need one. , 30% cannot > identify the Holocaust Only 30%?.....heck, I'd think it was higher. I'd be more concerned with what % deny that it happened. —as Shenkman inquires whether Americans are capable of > voting in the nation's or even their own best interests. This is a problem with all democracies. Most people are busy enough living their own lives that they can't/won't be bothered with things that aren't staring them in the face. > Although Shenkman clearly derives some pleasure in pointing out the > stupidity and irrationality of the American public, his concern is genuine [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > tools necessary to efficaciously participate in the political process. > (June) > Please. Democracy is the best type of govt because the people get the govt they deserve. < That's the point, dummy. Of cousre the whole rest of the world also gets the ill effects. We got George Bush, who was the frontman for some people who understood how easy it is to manipulate the US public, becasue they understood just how stupid they are. > <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > easy it is to manipulate the US public, becasue they understood just how > stupid they are. Well, with a big brain like you around, I'm sure it'll all work out. On Jun 23, 8:03 pm, "J A" <a...@re.com> wrote: > <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > easy it is to manipulate the US public, becasue they understood just how > stupid they are. > Well, with a big brain like you around, I'm sure it'll all work out. < You're an example of what the book is about, dumbass. The editorial review points out how most Americans don't have passports, meaning they don't get overseas and see how other people live, and you point out that that doesn't matter becasue most of them only go to places designed as tourist spots designed for them. Then you go on and say democracy is best, like the book is advocating tyranny or something. LOL. > <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 88 lines] > > You're an example of what the book is about, dumbass. Gee, I know who my Rep is, have a passport, and know about the Holocaust.....maybe you're the dumbass? > The editorial review points out how most Americans don't have passports, > meaning they don't get overseas and see how other people live, and you point > out that that doesn't matter becasue most of them only go to places designed > as tourist spots designed for them. No, I was just pointing out that most Americans who travel out of the country go to places where passports haven't been needed. That makes the % with passports artificially low. You're the one making value judgements on their destinations. > Then you go on and say democracy is best, like the book is advocating > tyranny or something. No, I'm saying the author, and your, whining is meaningless. > LOL Rightbackatcha whinyboy. On Jun 23, 8:17 pm, "J A" <a...@re.com> wrote: > <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 90 lines] > > You're an example of what the book is about, dumbass. > Gee, I know who my Rep is, have a passport, and know about the Holocaust.....maybe you're the dumbass?< < Nah, we know who it is, dumbass. > The editorial review points out how most Americans don't have passports, > meaning they don't get overseas and see how other people live, and you > point > out that that doesn't matter becasue most of them only go to places > designed > as tourist spots designed for them. > No, I was just pointing out that most Americans who travel out of the country go to places where passports haven't been needed. That makes the % with passports artificially low. You're the one making value judgements on their destinations. < It's not a "value judgment", dumbass, it was a substantive point about what the book is about, whinyboy. > Then you go on and say democracy is best, like the book is advocating > tyranny or something. No, I'm saying the author, and your, whining is meaningless. I'm not whining, ounk, I'm pointing out that you're a dumbass. > LOL > Rightbackatcha whinyboy., No, it's all on you, whiny punk. > <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 101 lines] > > Nah, we know who it is, dumbass. "We" do? We both agree that you're the dumbass? By your metric, I can't be the dumbass because I know all three of your points. > > The editorial review points out how most Americans don't have passports, > > meaning they don't get overseas and see how other people live, and you [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > It's not a "value judgment", dumbass, it was a substantive point about what > the book is about, whinyboy. And mine was a substantive point about the book....that 20% of Americans with passports is not a meaningful number because of the reason I gave. You are the one who discounted travelling to Mexico, Canada, etc. BTW, I'm sure Americans visiting other countries would never go to the tourist areas..... > > Then you go on and say democracy is best, like the book is advocating > > tyranny or something. > > No, I'm saying the author, and your, whining is meaningless. > > I'm not whining, ounk, I'm pointing out that you're a dumbass. Could have fooled me. Would you like some cheese with that whine? > > LOL > > > Rightbackatcha whinyboy., > > No, it's all on you, whiny punk. I guess we're quickly reaching "I know you are, but what am I?" On Jun 23, 8:35 pm, "J A" <a...@re.com> wrote: > <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 108 lines] > > Nah, we know who it is, dumbass. > "We" do? We both agree that you're the dumbass? By your metric, I can't be the dumbass because I know all three of your points. < You didn't even get what the book was about dumbass - that was the "metric". > > The editorial review points out how most Americans don't have passports, > > meaning they don't get overseas and see how other people live, and you [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > what > the book is about, whinyboy. > And mine was a substantive point about the book....that 20% of Americans with passports is not a meaningful number because of the reason I gave. < Again, you show that you are a dumbass. Obviously, as I pointed out before, the book's point about people not having passports, goes to them not having experienced other countries. And you STILL don't get the point, and dumbass that you are, again say they don;t need them becasue they mostly travel to tourist destinations that are designed for them. Jesus. > > Then you go on and say democracy is best, like the book is advocating > > tyranny or something. > > No, I'm saying the author, and your, whining is meaningless. > > I'm not whining, ounk, I'm pointing out that you're a dumbass. > Could have fooled me. Would you like some cheese with that whine? < What a loser. It's not "whining" to bring attention to a book that discusses the American voters' ignorance. The whining, and stupid whining it is, starts with your lameass objections to a book that just points out that you are an example of what the book is about. >> No, it's all on you, whiny punk. > I guess we're quickly reaching "I know you are, but what am I?" < Blah blah nyah nyah, moron? > <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 120 lines] > > You didn't even get what the book was about dumbass - that was the "metric". No, I disagreed with your...and the author's.....points. At which point you went straight to the namecalling. Your mama must be so proud. > > > The editorial review points out how most Americans don't have passports, > > > meaning they don't get overseas and see how other people live, and you [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Jesus. That's not as true for Canada. Also, Americans who travel to nations that we need passports for also go to tourist destinations. > > > Then you go on and say democracy is best, like the book is advocating > > > tyranny or something. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > It's not "whining" to bring attention to a book that discusses the American > voters' ignorance. Well, the author was betraying ignorance of his own. Soemof his points were incorrect or used incorrectly. > The whining, and stupid whining it is, starts with your lameass objections > to a book that just points out that you are an example of what the book is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Blah blah nyah nyah, moron? That's about par for you. You started the namecalling. On Jun 23, 9:59 pm, "J A" <a...@re.com> wrote: > <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 127 lines] > You didn't even get what the book was about dumbass - that was the > "metric". No, I disagreed with your...and the author's.....points. At which point you went straight to the namecalling. Your mama must be so proud. < The book is about stupidity, and you criticise it stupidly. You mama raised a nitwit. > > > The editorial review points out how most Americans don't have > > > passports, [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Jesus. That's not as true for Canada. Also, Americans who travel to nations that we need passports for also go to tourist destinations. < Jesus. The point was Americans being familiar with foreign nations. And you go on about Canada and Americanized tourist destinations not needing passports.. > > > Then you go on and say democracy is best, like the book is advocating > > > tyranny or something. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > American > voters' ignorance. Well, the author was betraying ignorance of his own. Soemof his points were incorrect or used incorrectly. < No he wasn't. ] Again: From Publishers Weekly Shenkman (Presidential Ambition) makes the provocative argument that as American voters have gained political power in the last 50 years, they have become increasingly ignorant of politics and world affairs—and dangerously susceptible to manipulation. The book provides a litany of depressing statistics—most Americans cannot name their representatives in Congress, only 20% hold a passport, 30% cannot identify the Holocaust—as Shenkman inquires whether Americans are capable of voting in the nation's or even their own best interests. Although Shenkman clearly derives some pleasure in pointing out the stupidity and irrationality of the American public, his concern is genuine and heartfelt. In lucid, playful prose, he illustrates how politicians have repeatedly misled voters and analyzes the dumbing down of American politics via marketing, spin machines and misinformation. Shenkman initiates an important conversation in this book and makes welcome suggestions to reinvigorate civic responsibility and provide people with the knowledge and tools necessary to efficaciously participate in the political process. (June) > The whining, and stupid whining it is, starts with your lameass objections > to a book that just points out that you are an example of what the book is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Blah blah nyah nyah, moron? > That's about par for you. You started the namecalling. You started the stupidity - I was just having a good laugh ;-)) > <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 186 lines] > go on about Canada and Americanized tourist destinations not needing > passports.. Well, the fact is.....if we needed passports to go to the nations we travel to the most.....more people (a higher %) would have passports. Therefore, the 20% figure is not a good example. Do you think his other two points are good? If someone doesn't vote for the Rep, why should he know their name? Yes, that's not very bright......but if he doesn't vote.....wait for it.....he's not a voter. Why is 30% not knowing about the Holocaust that bad? Frankly I'm surprised 70% do know about it. Now, my last point is Shenkman's claim that voters have become "increasingly ignorant of politics and world affairs".....his examples don't show that. This would be shown by something like....."most Americans used to be able to name their Rep, 30% used to have passports while 20% do now, 80% of Americans used to know what the Holocaust was while only 70% do now", etc, etc. Either Shenkman is sloppy or the reviewer is.....could be either, but it seems to me you've latched onto something you agree with and aren't critically assessing it. I happen to agree that politics are dumbed down.....are they more dumbed down than before? I doubt it. Read up on the history of US elections. Are Americans too ignorant about world affairs? I believe so. Are they more ignorant than before? I doubt it....my argument would be that it is now more important than ever to know about world affairs....which we don't. > > > > Then you go on and say democracy is best, like the book is advocating > > > > tyranny or something. [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > You started the stupidity - I was just having a good laugh ;-)) On Jun 23, 10:15 pm, "J A" <a...@re.com> wrote: > <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 196 lines] > go on about Canada and Americanized tourist destinations not needing > passports.. > Well, the fact is.....if we needed passports to go to the nations we travel to the most.....more people (a higher %) would have passports. Therefore, the 20% figure is not a good example. Do you think his other two points are good? If someone doesn't vote for the Rep, why should he know their name? Yes, that's not very bright......but if he doesn't vote.....wait for it.....he's not a voter. Why is 30% not knowing about the Holocaust that bad? Frankly I'm surprised 70% do know about it. Now, my last point is Shenkman's claim that voters have become "increasingly ignorant of politics and world affairs".....his examples don't show that. This would be shown by something like....."most Americans used to be able to name their Rep, 30% used to have passports while 20% do now, 80% of Americans used to know what the Holocaust was while only 70% do now", etc, etc. Either Shenkman is sloppy or the reviewer is.....could be either, but it seems to me you've latched onto something you agree with and aren't critically assessing it. I happen to agree that politics are dumbed down.....are they more dumbed down than before? I doubt it. Read up on the history of US elections. Are Americans too ignorant about world affairs? I believe so. Are they more ignorant than before? I doubt it....my argument would be that it is now more important than ever to know about world affairs....which we don't. < Your points on historical trends in voter knowledge are well taken. However, I think the overlying point is that no other country has the worldwide impact, involvement, and intervention that the US does, and yet it's people are not particularly well educated, especially about other countries. What works in the US, often does not transfer to other cultures. And there's an awful lot of "news", and not much info or insight. Prior to the Bush administration, most people shrugged off these considerations, assuming that in the big poltical mix intelligent apparaisals and actions emerged. That is, prior to the Bush administration. > We got George Bush, who was the frontman for some people who understood > how easy it is to manipulate the US public, becasue they understood just > how stupid they are. and now they will learn "you can't fool all the people all the time" we have to get rid of nancy pelosi though. she is a bush enabler. she absoluttly refuses to fight him on anything. On Jun 23, 8:37 pm, "Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > We got George Bush, who was the frontman for some people who understood > > how easy it is to manipulate the US public, becasue they understood just [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > we have to get rid of nancy pelosi though. she is a bush enabler. > she absoluttly refuses to fight him on anything. Because she figures that the more Bush & Co screws up, the better the Dems will do come November. On Jun 23, 8:37 pm, "Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote: > "J A" <a...@re.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > we have to get rid of nancy pelosi though. she is a bush enabler. > she absoluttly refuses to fight him on anything. Because she figures that the more Bush & Co screws up, the better the Dems will do come November. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- which is akin to the first mate on the titanic hoping to get promoted after the captain hits the ice berg On Jun 24, 1:57 pm, "Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote: > <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > which is akin to the first mate on the titanic hoping to get promoted after > the captain hits the ice berg No argument.....I'm just giving my take on why the Dems don't challenge W's policies. On Jun 23, 8:58 pm, "deemsb...@aol.com" <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote: > On Jun 23, 8:37 pm, "Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Because she figures that the more Bush & Co screws up, the > better the Dems will do come November. Plus she will look less powerless with a margin of 185 seats. There won't be all this noise, just the sound of Republicans eating humble pie as they lose vote after vote. Real votes not the procedural ones. >> We got George Bush, who was the frontman for some people who understood >> how easy it is to manipulate the US public, becasue they understood just >> how stupid they are. > > and now they will learn > "you can't fool all the people all the time" The problem is, American voters are just as dumb as ever (look at that deems fool trying to object to the book's premises, essentialy by proving them), they've just finally recognized bad results and are reacting. > we have to get rid of nancy pelosi though. she is a bush enabler. > she absoluttly refuses to fight him on anything. True, but a lot of that was based on Rep / Dem voting margins. > >> We got George Bush, who was the frontman for some people who understood > >> how easy it is to manipulate the US public, becasue they understood just [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > fool trying to object to the book's premises, essentialy by proving them), > they've just finally recognized bad results and are reacting. Yep, I'm a dumb American voter. You might want to know my voting record before you get your panties in a wad. I'm sorry that you feel threatened by anyone who disagrees with you. You must live in a sad little world. > > we have to get rid of nancy pelosi though. she is a bush enabler. > > she absoluttly refuses to fight him on anything. > > True, but a lot of that was based on Rep / Dem voting margins. On Jun 23, 10:05 pm, "J A" <a...@re.com> wrote: > "Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > fool trying to object to the book's premises, essentialy by proving them), > they've just finally recognized bad results and are reacting. > Yep, I'm a dumb American voter. You might want to know my voting record before you get your panties in a wad. I'm sorry that you feel threatened by anyone who disagrees with you. You must live in a sad little world. < Sure, twat. I don't feel "threatned" by twats, and unlike you, twat. I don't wear panties, so shove it up your a.s, twat. > > we have to get rid of nancy pelosi though. she is a bush enabler. > > she absoluttly refuses to fight him on anything. > > True, but a lot of that was based on Rep / Dem voting margins. > <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > I don't feel "threatned" by twats, and unlike you, twat. I don't wear > panties, so shove it up your a.s, twat. If you're going to quote, at least do it accurately. You must feel threatened.....mature people don't attack those who disagree with them. Spot On! Shenkman has spoken Truth. Politicians spend hundreds of millions of dollars trying to educate and manipulate the Great Unwashed American Electorate on vital issues of National Security, Economics and Social Policy every four years. It's Far Past Ridiculous... DSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas >> "[T]he first transactions of a nation, like those of an individual upon >> his first entrance into life make the deepest impression, and are to form [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > the knowledge and tools necessary to efficaciously participate in the > political process. (June) > Spot On! > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > manipulate the Great Unwashed American Electorate on vital issues of > National Security, Economics and Social Policy every four years. Hines, his point is, that they spend the money "informing" people, in the same way McDonalds "informs" them about their products. > It's Far Past Ridiculous... > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >> people with the knowledge and tools necessary to efficaciously >> participate in the political process. (June) >Spot On! > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >It's Far Past Ridiculous... So Shenkman is correct in his description of the stupidity of the American public. Stupidity is evidently part of the "American national character". Whatever happened to the "piercing intelligence" we were told about? I love the way you talk about "educating" and "manipulating" the great unwashed, as if those two verbs were synonyms, and as if you yourself did not belong to the unwashed and manipulated, the people who naively swallow the myths they are fed with. James >>Spot On! >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >did not belong to the unwashed and manipulated, the people who naively >swallow the myths they are fed with. Davie is one of those "patriots" who loves his country but hates 98% of the people who live in it, is deeply religious but ignores 98% of the teachings of his religion and who adds a totally new dimension to the word "hypocrite". Eugene L Griessel A good slogan can stop analysis for fifty years. - I usually post only from Sci.Military.Naval - >>>Spot On! >>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > the teachings of his religion and who adds a totally new dimension to > the word "hypocrite". Watch it you guys. When he wakes up and reads this, he'll post some kind of fiction about me and my alleged multitude of sins in an effort to detract attention from himself! He has been rather quiet on Gans lately ... - nilita >>>>Spot On! >>>> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >fiction about me and my alleged multitude of sins in an effort to detract >attention from himself! He has been rather quiet on Gans lately ... Partly because Gans himself has been quiet and Hines has less outlet for his anti-Whateverism. James > >>>Spot On! > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > - nilita I think you're wrong here. Hines is crying for attention......he's just using Usenet instead of a public square. On Jun 24, 10:22 am, "La N" <nilita2004NOS...@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > - nilita I think you're wrong here. Hines is crying for attention......he's just using Usenet instead of a public square. ************************** You're right, of course. He likes the attention. However, I think he'd rather come out as the hero of the day; and when the errors of his ways are pointed out, he deflects the accusers to over my way. A years long telenovela could be produced just based on Hines' fictitious nilita gay adventures. It's uncanny how when someone even criticizes GW Bush, Hines will redirect to the evils of Nilita Gay ... or Gans, or William Black ... or .... I just thought of something: we 3 targets represent various social groups - black (by way of my kin), liberals, and Jews. The plot thickens, Virginia! - nilita > On Jun 24, 10:22 am, "La N" <nilita2004NOS...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> "Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > > - nilita blackguard deserves it. ... > The book provides a litany of depressing statistics—most Americans cannot > name their representatives in Congress, only 20% hold a passport, 30% cannot > identify the Holocaust—as Shenkman inquires whether Americans are capable of > voting in the nation's or even their own best interests. ... As a citizen, I'm much more interested in whether my government is capable of acting in MY interests. JM |
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