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History Forum / General / British History / July 2008Service Dress Khaki May Be Coming Back
It was a really stupid and short-sighted decision by the Navy ever to get rid of the excellent, traditional Service Dress Khaki uniform in 1975. The decision to deep-six it was reportedly driven by Admiral Elmo Zumwalt who was the CNO from 1970-1974. Now, Service Dress Khaki appears it may be coming back. SDK is one of he best-looking of the naval uniforms designed for chiefs and officers. I've noticed that Admiral Mike Mullen, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has been wearing it for media appearances. That's a Good Sign.  SignatureDSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor ----------------------------------------------------------------- Navy Tests New Khaki Dress Uniform June 05, 2008 Navy News WASHINGTON -- Wear testing for the proposed Service Dress Khaki uniform has commenced in six major Navy communities. The wear test encompasses commands in Washington, D.C.; Norfolk; Millington, Tenn.; Newport, R.I.; Yokosuka, Japan; and Pearl Harbor. Then-Chief of Naval Operations, (CNO), Adm. Mike Mullen, authorized the wear testing of the new uniforms for chiefs and officers in March 2006, shortly before turning over his position to current CNO, Adm. Gary Roughead. The style of the Service Dress Khaki is reminiscent of the uniform worn during World War II and Vietnam eras, according to Robert Carroll, Head of Navy's Uniform Matters Office. One of the key points stressed was the versatility of the proposed uniform. "With the service dress khaki, the wearer could easily go from service to dress just by donning a jacket," said Carroll. "Right now, we're evaluating fabric, appearance, durability, comfort, fit and maintenance requirements. We're also out to gauge the desire of the fleet to wear the uniform." Carroll is optimistic that the proposed uniform could lighten the load of chiefs and officers' seabags. "Right now, chiefs and officers have to bring two sets of dress uniforms on board ship to accommodate the potential and likely seasonal shifts associated with deployments," he explained. "With the Service Dress Khaki, they would only need one dress uniform." The wear test is tentatively scheduled to end in August. Participants are required to compete an on-line survey and attend focus groups to express their experience, satisfaction with components and most importantly should the Navy adopt the uniform as a requirement. A decision will be pending after the survey and a Business Case Analysis is completed and briefed. > It was a really stupid and short-sighted decision by the Navy ever to get > rid of the excellent, traditional Service Dress Khaki uniform in 1975. The [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > That's a Good Sign. Interesting you bring this up. Mullen was on FOX NEWS Sunday this week. The first that hit me was not the word from his mouth, but the khaki rather than White uniform. Very retro.... Better than their other uniform ideas. > > It was a really stupid and short-sighted decision by the Navy ever to get > > rid of the excellent, traditional Service Dress Khaki uniform in 1975. The [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > rather than White uniform. Very retro.... Better than their other > uniform ideas. Bring back the Service Dress Khaki uniforms was long overdue. Admiral Elmo Zumwalt caused more damage to the Navy, than the Japanese did at Pearl Harbor. Great move <G> Yep... Great Uniform. DSH >> > It was a really stupid and short-sighted decision by the Navy ever to >> > get [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Elmo Zumwalt caused more damage to the Navy, than the Japanese did at > Pearl Harbor. Great move OK Spence - I gotta question for ya... Let's assume the USN brings back this retro uniform. Now I spent 21 years + change, so I'm allowed to wear my dress CPO uniforms at appropriate circumstances - like parades, or military funerals, and I sometimes do that. If I were to obtain this uniform, could I wear it for things like that, even though it was not an authorized uniform when I was AD? Regards, >It was a really stupid and short-sighted decision by the Navy ever to get >rid of the excellent, traditional Service Dress Khaki uniform in 1975. The [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >That's a Good Sign. > OK Spence - I gotta question for ya... He doesn't "do" questions. SignatureJohn Briggs Why not?... I'm no expert on such matters, Chief -- but it seems to me you certainly could wear the SDK -- as the critical factor is that it will be [hopefully] authorized for wear soon. Anyone who tried to tell you you couldn't wear it would need some damn good reasons... And I don't see any. Cheers, Spence Hines > OK Spence - I gotta question for ya... > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >> >>That's a Good Sign. Thanks. If anyone else could weigh in on the legality of this question - please do... Regards, >Why not?... > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >>> >>>That's a Good Sign. > Thanks. If anyone else could weigh in on the legality of this > question - please do... > Regards, Chapter 30, AR 670-1 (http://docs.usapa.belvoir.army.mil/jw2/xmldemo/r670_1/head.asp)prescribes the wear of uniforms by retirees and former members of the Army. I'm sure the squids have something similar. >>Why not?... >> [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] >>>> >>>>That's a Good Sign. Under AR 670-1, retirees can wear either the uniform current when they retired or the current active duty uniform appropriate for the occasion. NAVPERS 15665I, Chapter 10 says the same. Dave (The Other) > Thanks. If anyone else could weigh in on the legality of this > question - please do... [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] >>>> >>>>That's a Good Sign. Thanks Dave. I believe that may be the definitive answer. 'Preciate it... Regards, On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:51:04 -0700, "Dave \(The Other\)" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >Under AR 670-1, retirees can wear either the uniform current when they >retired or the current active duty uniform appropriate for the occasion. [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] >>>>> >>>>>That's a Good Sign. Standard Navy Rules... If there is no entry in Naval Regulations or lawful orders specifically PROHIBITING some action then... Proceed On Course As Desired... Even then there's some flex... As in CUMSHAW... A Master Talent of good CPO's the World Over. The Army and Air Force are far more timid in taking individual action in such circumstances. Marines wisely follow Navy Rules -- or lack of them... As does the Coast Guard. SignatureDSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor > Thanks Dave. I believe that may be the definitive answer. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >>Dave >>(The Other) >>> Thanks. If anyone else could weigh in on the legality of this >>> question - please do... [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >>>>>>get rid of the excellent, traditional Service Dress Khaki uniform in >>>>>>1975. >>>>>>The decision to deep-six it was reportedly driven by Admiral Elmo >>>>>> Zumwalt, who was the CNO from 1970-1974. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >>>>>> >>>>>>That's a Good Sign. > Thanks Dave. I believe that may be the definitive answer. Right. US Navy Uniform Regulations, Article 61002 <http:// buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/508/unireg/chapter6/ chapter_6.htm#sec10> : <<5. GROOMING STANDARDS. Retired personnel must comply with the grooming standards in these regulations, but uniforms and equipment may either be those prescribed here or those authorized at the time of their retirement.>> So as soon as SDK shows up in the regs, you can wear it. One thing I like about the re-born SDK is that chiefs will wear their crow and hash marks; I like being able to see someone's rating. I wonder if they will re-authorize the khaki rating badge with the blue (black) stripes and the silver embroidered crow and specialty mark, that was sharp looking. In photos of the MCPON the crow and specialty mark are blue. --Justin Lets hope the AF doesn't bring back the old Khaki shorts and pith helmet. though things went down hill when they scrapped the missile blue flight suits. Or the white overalls in SAC for maintenance. Anything else? There were blue flight suits, and orange flight suits, some were still around in the late 80s at Edwards. Orange anyway. > Why not?... > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Spence Hines I am not familiar with Navy directives, but the Air Force indicates you can wear either the current uniform or the one in existent when you retired. SignaturePosted by HOPPIE, 30 Years Active Duty ,11 Campaigns Vietnam, 100% DAV, Life Member; Am.Lgn,DAV,VFW,AFSA,VVA. > I am not familiar with Navy directives, but the Air Force indicates you > can wear either the current uniform or the one in existent when you > retired. Betcha can't fit into it Nigel Brooks Good stuff, reminds me of McHale's Navy! SDK can be seen in MANY films about World War II and the Korean War SignatureDSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor > SDK can be seen in MANY films about World War II and the Korean War G. Gordon Liddy has often said that the Army, especially, could use some of that retro touch. > -- > DSH > Lux et Veritas et Libertas > Vires et Honor "Retro" is the wrong word. SignatureDSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor >> SDK can be seen in MANY films about World War II and the Korean War > > G. Gordon Liddy has often said that the Army, especially, could use > some of that retro touch. > "Retro" is the wrong word. OK. Liddy's words were that the older uniforms looked better and had more panache in his opinion. Not saying it is "old" jus that touches can be sued and updated. Like the hats the women in the service wear that trace their roots to the 1940s. > -- > DSH [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Yep... All Good... Navy Traditions... SDK is an integral part of that. Admiral Mike Mullen seems to understand that and is leading the way -- as his public appearances in SDK demonstrate. He is neither "retro"... Nor Airy-Fairy, Ersatz "Practical" "Fashion"... A la Elmo Zumwalt...and his successor James Holloway.... With their Pedestrian Uniforms that made Naval Folks look like longshoremen and golfers or vacationers in Acapulco. SignatureDSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor >> "Retro" is the wrong word. > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> >> - Show quoted text - > Like the hats the women in the service wear > that trace their roots to the 1940s. I believe that, as women's hats, they drew on 1940s fashion, but those fashions in turn drew on the 18th century military tricorn and bicorn. SignatureAndrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) >> Like the hats the women in the service wear >> that trace their roots to the 1940s. > > I believe that, as women's hats, they drew on 1940s fashion, but those > fashions in turn drew on the 18th century military tricorn and bicorn. All fashion, even military fashion, is evolutionary rather than revolutionary. You can trace the 'patch pocket service dress' back through the officers frock coat in its various incarnations right back to the buttoned foul weather cloak/jacket called a 'casok' of soldiers of the seventeenth century. Military hat and helmets are fun though. Especially the British ones, because the WWI British 'tin hat' is based on a medieval 'kettle hat'... SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. True. They are quite attractive naval caps... Not hats. SignatureDSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor >> Like the hats the women in the service wear >> that trace their roots to the 1940s. > > I believe that, as women's hats, they drew on 1940s fashion, but those > fashions in turn drew on the 18th century military tricorn and bicorn. "D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com> wrote .. > It was a really stupid and short-sighted decision by the Navy ever to get > rid of the excellent, traditional Service Dress Khaki uniform in 1975. I'll post / reminesce / ask, twisting considerably off original topic. I served in the USMC. By the time we finished the 6 month TBS we were all required to have bought and shown for inspection: Dress Blues, Dress Whites, Service Dress Greens - 2 sets!! Service Dress Khaki (If I recall correctly - we already knew they being phased out!) Overcoat - green Sword - engraved with name. In addition to the clothes we needed for regular likely duties (utilities, extra green slacks, extra khaki shirts & ties etc.) All had to be 'perfectly' fitted - and I shaped unusually! I know the cost sounds like a pittance now, but at the time the $160 - 190 cost of each set was quite a bit, especially when we knew many of the items would rarely/never be worn again. (IIRC - I wore the "whites" once, voluntary served forming a sword 'arch' for another's wedding.) (side bit - for I and fair number of others, it just worked out easier to have about 15 sets of utilities, 5 to 7 in for laundering, starching, pressing each week, and pick up the 5-7 from the last week, with a couple in 'emergency reserve') After my active duty, I served 3-4 years in active reserve, and after that put away these uniforms just in case of a rare 'emergency callback'. (yeah, I'll admit, people have called me a "hoarder") And then when I had to move, time was short, quicker to pack them and move to new attic, than take time to cull out. I gave away many things (esp. the utilities) that others could use. But seems I could never find anyone that would fit the 'fitted' sets. I hate throwing away stuff, , especially expensive like 'new' stuff. Well, even I am realizing that I should cull out much more! #1. What to keep? (if any??!?) 1A. Hmm, should I keep the blues?? Look neat, some nice memories, should I again attend some USMC Birthday Balls? Should I consider being burried it it?? 1B. Greens, always sharp & frequently worn - but why? 1C. Whites ?!? Well, certainly the Khaki's, and one Green and rest of utilities, gotta go! #2. Where give to? The clothing donation places? Drama groups? (face it - military 'plays' are not in, and -- sizes) I suppose I'm inviting comments, (but not really feeling like I need to be beaten up on --) I've always been impressed by Marines' attention to their uniforms. Sharpness Is A Virtue... SignatureDSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor > "D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com> wrote .. >> It was a really stupid and short-sighted decision by the Navy ever to get [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > (but not really feeling like I need to be beaten > up on --) Yep... All Good... Navy Traditions... SDK is an integral part of that. Admiral Mike Mullen seems to understand that and is leading the way -- as his public appearances in SDK demonstrate. He is neither "retro"... Nor Airy-Fairy, Ersatz "Practical" "Fashion"... A la Elmo Zumwalt...and his successor as CNO, James Holloway.... With their Pedestrian Uniforms that made Naval Folks look like longshoremen and/or golfers or vacationers in Acapulco. SignatureDSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor > On Jul 24, 1:23 am, "D. Spencer Hines" <pant...@excelsior.com> wrote: >> "Retro" is the wrong word. > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> > G. Gordon Liddy has often said that the Army, especially, could use >> > some of that retro touch. |
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