History Forum / General / British History / August 2008

On Aug 19, 4:21 am, "Singanas@Texasgulfcoast" <davidholi...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Actually, it seems to have become the Russian border.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/20/world/europe/20georgia.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

August 20, 2008
Russia Builds Checkpoints in Georgia
By C.J. CHIVERS and ANDREW E. KRAMER

KARALETI, Georgia — Russian troops were building new checkpoints a few
miles north of the key Georgian city of Gori on Tuesday, using
backhoes to cut deep trenches at the edge of the town of Karaleti and
using cranes to stack concrete blocks into barricades. The Kremlin
claimed a day earlier to have begun withdrawing troops from Georgia,
but there has been little evidence of change on the ground.

Also Tuesday, Russian soldiers in the Black Sea port of Poti in armed
personnel carriers blockaded the main commercial port, and took
Georgian soldiers prisoner. An explosion could be heard from the port,
where Russian troops sank Georgian ships earlier this week. An
Associated Press report said 22 Georgians were being held.

The situation was tense, with a ring of Georgian police officers
surrounding the Russian-held port. Russian forces have patrolled the
area regularly since entering Georgia from the west 10 days ago. U.S.
Navy ships are scheduled to deliver humanitarian aid for Georgia at
the port.

In Moscow, a high-ranking security official said Tuesday that he had
received intelligence about Georgian-planned terrorist attacks on
Russian soil. The Federal Security Service chief, Alexander Bortnikov,
said he had ordered tightened security at transportation hubs,
industrial facilities and densely populated areas in Russia’s
southernmost district, whose border stretches from Ukraine, through
Georgia and as far as Kazakhstan, Interfax reported.

A day earlier, Russian soldiers continued digging in to positions
along the highway approaching the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, showing
no sign of pulling back from the severest confrontation between Russia
and the West since the collapse of the Soviet Union.

The checkpoints in Karaleti, seen by a New York Times reporter
Tuesday, seemed to mesh with information the Russians released a day
earlier, which clarified the scope of their proposed withdrawal. A
1999 document written up by the Joint Control Commission, an
international body that monitored tensions in South Ossetia, gives
peacekeepers access to a long swath of land that extends about nine
miles into Georgian territory, and right through Karaleti.

The Russian president, Dmitri A. Medvedev, has said Russian
peacekeepers would pull back from other Georgian territory but remain
inside that area.

Russia’s state news agency, the Russian Information Agency, reported
Monday that one of its correspondents had seen small convoys of 5 to
10 tanks moving north through the Roki tunnel toward Russia.

But in Washington, Defense Department and military officials said
there was no evidence of Russian forces’ complying with pledges to
pull back. “We have not seen any significant Russian movement out of
Georgia today,” one senior Pentagon official said Monday.

On the ground in Georgia, about 25 miles outside the capital along the
main highway, four Russian armored personnel carriers passed a Russian
checkpoint at the village of Igoeti on Monday and headed in the other
direction, toward Tbilisi. Soldiers were piled on top, cradling
Kalashnikov rifles.

<more>

I don't know how much cred Gorbachev has anymore, but in his op-ed piece of
today in the NY Times he insists that Russia never wanted a war:

August 20, 2008
Op-Ed Contributor
Russia Never Wanted a War
By MIKHAIL GORBACHEV
Moscow

THE acute phase of the crisis provoked by the Georgian forces' assault on
Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia, is now behind us. But how can one
erase from memory the horrifying scenes of the nighttime rocket attack on a
peaceful town, the razing of entire city blocks, the deaths of people taking
cover in basements, the destruction of ancient monuments and ancestral
graves?

Russia did not want this crisis. The Russian leadership is in a strong
enough position domestically; it did not need a little victorious war.
Russia was dragged into the fray by the recklessness of the Georgian
president, Mikheil Saakashvili. He would not have dared to attack without
outside support. Once he did, Russia could not afford inaction.

The decision by the Russian president, Dmitri Medvedev, to now cease
hostilities was the right move by a responsible leader. The Russian
president acted calmly, confidently and firmly. Anyone who expected
confusion in Moscow was disappointed.

The planners of this campaign clearly wanted to make sure that, whatever the
outcome, Russia would be blamed for worsening the situation. The West then
mounted a propaganda attack against Russia, with the American news media
leading the way.

The news coverage has been far from fair and balanced, especially during the
first days of the crisis. Tskhinvali was in smoking ruins and thousands of
people were fleeing - before any Russian troops arrived. Yet Russia was
already being accused of aggression; news reports were often an embarrassing
recitation of the Georgian leader's deceptive statements.

It is still not quite clear whether the West was aware of Mr. Saakashvili's
plans to invade South Ossetia, and this is a serious matter. What is clear
is that Western assistance in training Georgian troops and shipping large
supplies of arms had been pushing the region toward war rather than peace.

If this military misadventure was a surprise for the Georgian leader's
foreign patrons, so much the worse. It looks like a classic wag-the-dog
story.

Mr. Saakashvili had been lavished with praise for being a staunch American
ally and a real democrat - and for helping out in Iraq. Now America's friend
has wrought disorder, and all of us - the Europeans and, most important, the
region's innocent civilians - must pick up the pieces.

Those who rush to judgment on what's happening in the Caucasus, or those who
seek influence there, should first have at least some idea of this region's
complexities. The Ossetians live both in Georgia and in Russia. The region
is a patchwork of ethnic groups living in close proximity. Therefore, all
talk of "this is our land," "we are liberating our land," is meaningless. We
must think about the people who live on the land.

The problems of the Caucasus region cannot be solved by force. That has been
tried more than once in the past two decades, and it has always boomeranged.

What is needed is a legally binding agreement not to use force. Mr.
Saakashvili has repeatedly refused to sign such an agreement, for reasons
that have now become abundantly clear.

The West would be wise to help achieve such an agreement now. If, instead,
it chooses to blame Russia and re-arm Georgia, as American officials are
suggesting, a new crisis will be inevitable. In that case, expect the worst.

In recent days, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and President Bush have
been promising to isolate Russia. Some American politicians have threatened
to expel it from the Group of 8 industrialized nations, to abolish the
NATO-Russia Council and to keep Russia out of the World Trade Organization.

These are empty threats. For some time now, Russians have been wondering: If
our opinion counts for nothing in those institutions, do we really need
them? Just to sit at the nicely set dinner table and listen to lectures?

Indeed, Russia has long been told to simply accept the facts. Here's the
independence of Kosovo for you. Here's the abrogation of the Antiballistic
Missile Treaty, and the American decision to place missile defenses in
neighboring countries. Here's the unending expansion of NATO. All of these
moves have been set against the backdrop of sweet talk about partnership.
Why would anyone put up with such a charade?

There is much talk now in the United States about rethinking relations with
Russia. One thing that should definitely be rethought: the habit of talking
to Russia in a condescending way, without regard for its positions and
interests.

Our two countries could develop a serious agenda for genuine, rather than
token, cooperation. Many Americans, as well as Russians, understand the need
for this. But is the same true of the political leaders?

A bipartisan commission led by Senator Chuck Hagel and former Senator Gary
Hart has recently been established at Harvard to report on American-Russian
relations to Congress and the next president. It includes serious people,
and, judging by the commission's early statements, its members understand
the importance of Russia and the importance of constructive bilateral
relations.

But the members of this commission should be careful. Their mandate is to
present "policy recommendations for a new administration to advance
America's
national interests in relations with Russia." If that alone is the goal,
then I doubt that much good will come out of it. If, however, the commission
is ready to also consider the interests of the other side and of common
security, it may actually help rebuild trust between Russia and the United
States and allow them to start doing useful work together.

Mikhail Gorbachev is the former president of the Soviet Union. This article
was translated by Pavel Palazhchenko from the Russian.

Copyright 2008 The New York Times Company

I think most of the world already knows Hines is full of sh*te.  I think
even Bush would tell Hines to STFU and stop proclaiming himself as a one of
his supporters.

- nilita

US policy is bad, has been bad and is crooked.

The lies are only beginnning to catch up. Enron and WorldCom were only
the beginning.
The economy is based on football statistics of how to gamble on who is
the most corrupt and who is most likely to get caught.

With the removal of the prayer of allegiance children will begin to be
honest with themselves and see through the lies their parents have
been shoving down their throats.

When religion is separated from the state will free thinking be able
to evolve.

Bigger bombs bigger targets

So now we have hereditary guilt? There are people in Missouri who
think Jesse James was a good guy, same with Pretty Boy Floyd. Depends
on who wrote the book.