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History Forum / General / British History / February 2004Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881) -- Great Prime Minister
Historical Facts: You've got it basically correct, however, Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881) was actually 12, rather than 15, when he was baptized on 31 July 1817. He was born on 21 December 1804, in London -- in his father, Isaac D'Israeli's home at 6 King's Road, Bedford Row, later named 22 Theobald's Road, near Gray's Inn. In _Tancred_ and other writings, as well as in casual and Parliamentary speeches, Disraeli makes it quite clear he sees himself as an ethnic and cultural Jew ---- no question about it. For anyone to say peremptorily, as Gans is doing, that Disraeli was NOT Jewish, is quite foolish and wrong. >>Disraeli? > >Wasn't Jewish. Came from a one-time Jewish family though. [pjg] Hilarious! Disraeli was INTENSELY PROUD of his Sephardic Jewish Ancestry and RIGHTLY SO. He held the quite controversial view, for his day, that Christians owed the Jews for the foundations of their Religion because: 1. Jesus and all his disciples were Jewish. 2. Without the Jews having turned Jesus over to the Romans for judgement there could have been no Crucifixion, no Resurrection and no Atonement. Disraeli often seems to regard Christ's Jewishness as more important than his Divinity. Disraeli is known to have referred to _YOUR Christianity_ when addressing his Parliamentary opponents on the floor of the House of Commons, during the debates over the removal of civil disabilities on the Jews. Gans, who is not a practicing Jew himself, but a self-confessed, cynical, desiccated, Greenwich-Village Atheist ---- is obviously quite ignorant about these important Historical Facts concerning Benjamin Disraeli. They are Historical Facts he has no particular interest in ---- so he ignores them ---- as "INCONVENIENT FACTS." Not Surprising, Not Surprising In The Least.... Gans is ignorant about all SORTS of things of which he tries to speak authoritatively. As we saw with RACE ---- and RACISTS.... We also saw him take a massive pratfall just yesterday when he posted errant gibberish concerning Succession To The Office Of President of the United States. Gans said the Speaker of the House is THIRD in line to succeed to the Presidency ---- rather than the CORRECT SECOND in line ---- right after the Vice President. Gans Pontificates From The Pit Of Ignorance, Continuously...Never Forget It.... D. Spencer Hines Deus Vult Sholem Aleichem. Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor "Don Aitken" <don-aitken@freeuk.com> wrote in message news:tomo10daml2umqi0gt15qptnq67463rmvq@4ax.com... | "One-time" being until he reached the age of 15, when his father had | him baptised (without, however, being baptised himself). That seems | pretty Jewish to me, which is the way he himself, and his | contemporaries, saw it too. His writings harp on the topic of | Jewishness incessantly, as if he was determined not to let people | forget it. Of course, he could not have been an MP without being | formally Christian. | | -- | Don Aitken This is one of my favorite Disraeli quotations: --------------------------------------- "Arabs are only Jews on horseback." Benjamin Disraeli ----------------- D. Spencer Hines Deus Vult Sholem Aleichem. Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor >>Disraeli? ---------- >Wasn't Jewish. Came from a one-time Jewish family though. P. Jonathan Gans ---- Left-Wing NYU chemist ---------------------------------------- Nonsense! Here's another of my favorite Disraeli quotations, which certainly puts paid to Gans's anserine, thoughtless, uninformed comment above: "Yes, I am a Jew, and when the ancestors of the right honourable gentleman were brutal savages in an unknown island, mine were priests in the temple of Solomon." Benjamin Disraeli ---- Reply to a taunt by Daniel O'Connell ---------------------------------------------------- Capital! D. Spencer Hines Deus Vult Sholem Aleichem. Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor > Historical Facts: > [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] > | -- > | Don Aitken Under Halacha [Jewish law] Disraeli is considered a heretic and idolater. > > Historical Facts: > > [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] > > Under Halacha [Jewish law] Disraeli is considered a heretic and idolater. Much difference does it make! He was good for England that is all that matters! What differnce does it make whether he was a Jew or not? It can easily proved that Hitler was part Jewish. Do you want the bastard? > Historical Facts: > [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] > | -- > | Don Aitken > What differnce does it make whether he was a Jew or not? It can easily > proved that Hitler was part Jewish. Do you want the bastard? Alex, I accept your challenge! Prove that Hitler was part Jewish. I can think of several quite eminent historians that have discussed this issue and reached the reverse conclusion.  SignatureMore quantity is easier to produce then higher quality. 39th observation of Bernard >> What differnce does it make whether he was a Jew or not? It can easily >> proved that Hitler was part Jewish. Do you want the bastard? > >Alex, I accept your challenge! Prove that Hitler was part Jewish. I can >think of several quite eminent historians that have discussed this issue >and reached the reverse conclusion. G'day Bernie, You people aren't supposed to believe in the concept of "part jewish". Are you some kind of renegade? > >> What differnce does it make whether he was a Jew or not? It can easily > >> proved that Hitler was part Jewish. Do you want the bastard? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > You people aren't supposed to believe in the concept of "part jewish". > Are you some kind of renegade? Hiya You should know better then to assume that Alex makes sense. SignatureAn outsider will find that the doors of a house are shut. However once he gets inside he will find that almost all doors are open. 40th observation of Bernard > > >> What differnce does it make whether he was a Jew or not? It can easily > > >> proved that Hitler was part Jewish. Do you want the bastard? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > You should know better then to assume that Alex makes sense. Trust him to be too dumb to see the trap being set. Susan A Jew had to become a Christian in order to get a seat in the Parliament of liberal England, and still was considered a Jew anyway - only proving that conversion may get you a good job, but it still won't get you any respect :) There is, however, a jewish porn star named Ron Jeremy, who though Jewish does get respect from gentile females, because he has a 10" penis. Which only goes to prove, it's not who you are, or even what you are, but rather what you're packing that gets you respect. > Historical Facts: > [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] > | -- > | Don Aitken > A Jew had to become a Christian in order to get a seat in the > Parliament > of liberal England, and still was considered a Jew anyway - only > proving > that conversion may get you a good job, but it still won't get you any > respect :) Funny, I experienced just the opposite (Oh, wait.... (-: ) > There is, however, a jewish porn star named Ron Jeremy, who though > Jewish > does get respect from gentile females, because he has a 10" penis. But did he "convert"?? :-) Susan > Which only goes to prove, it's not who you are, or even what you are, > but rather what you're packing that gets you respect. [quoted text clipped - 85 lines] > > | -- > > | Don Aitken > > A Jew had to become a Christian in order to get a seat in the > > Parliament [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > But did he "convert"?? :-) Well, he must be circumsized at least? > Historical Facts: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > For anyone to say peremptorily, as Gans is doing, that Disraeli was NOT > Jewish, is quite foolish and wrong. According to Catholic rules, he wasn't. Gans is as entitled to his belief as anyone, but, of course, Jews are going to say that Disraeli was Jewish, just an apostate. Susan And the Jews who say Disraeli was Jewish but an apostate make perfect sense. Gans, however, does NOT make perfect sense. Gans is ignorant and farblondjet ---- even by his OWN rules. Gans initially INSISTED Disraeli was NOT Jewish. But THEN he told us: "For me there are only two bases for terming someone Jewish: they either claim to be Jewish or they practice Judaism." Well, Disraeli DID claim to be Jewish. I proved that: "Yes, I am a Jew, and when the ancestors of the right honourable gentleman were brutal savages in an unknown island, mine were priests in the temple of Solomon." Benjamin Disraeli ---- Reply to a taunt by Daniel O'Connell ------------------------------------------------- SO, Gans is WRONG ---- EVEN by his OWN definitions. Benjamin Disraeli WAS Jewish. Gans, once again, has been hoist upon his own petard.... KAWHOMP!!! KERSPLAT!!! Hilarious! Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi _Asinum. D. Spencer Hines Deus Vult Sholem Aleichem. Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor | > Historical Facts: | > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] | | Susan > And the Jews who say Disraeli was Jewish but an apostate make perfect > sense. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > "For me there are only two bases for terming someone Jewish: they either > claim to be Jewish or they practice Judaism." I find it extremely arrogant for non-Jews to make rules about who is/not Jewish. > Well, Disraeli DID claim to be Jewish. I proved that: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > SO, Gans is WRONG ---- EVEN by his OWN definitions. Well, he's got time to admit that - right? Susan Good Points.... See Below. DSH | > And the Jews who say Disraeli was Jewish but an apostate make | > perfect sense. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] | I find it extremely arrogant for non-Jews to make rules about who | is/not Jewish. Yes, I think you have a good argument there. The U. S. Government takes that tack. They ask US what race or ethnic group we belong to and they generally don't ask us our religion ---- except in special circumstances. The Armed Forces should know whether you want a religious funeral ---- and a Cross, A Star Of David or a Crescent on your headstone ---- or nothing. I don't know whether Gans considers himself as Jewish or not. He belongs to no synagogue and does not believe in God ---- he HIMSELF has told us that much. He does not appear to practice Judaism per se ---- but that is for him to say. | > Well, Disraeli DID claim to be Jewish. I proved that: | > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] | | Susan And you think he WILL admit that? O.K. ---- Let's See.... Spencer > Good Points.... > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Yes, I think you have a good argument there. I don;' think any outsider has a right to make up rules for other people. For example, I get angry at Jews who say that "The Inquisition was Xian" in the face of Xians who insist that it was a perversion of their religion. I figure *they* would know better than I, & at best (or worst) I would say that the Inquisition thought they were Xian. That's NOT the same thing. > The U. S. Government takes that tack. They ask US what race or ethnic > group we belong to and they generally don't ask us our religion ---- > except in special circumstances. The Armed Forces should know whether > you want a religious funeral ---- and a Cross, A Star Of David or a > Crescent on your headstone ---- or nothing. FWIU, they have several pages filled with every possible answer, and you get to pick one. ONE. I know someone who picked "Druid" just to be a jerk. > I don't know whether Gans considers himself as Jewish or not. He > belongs to no synagogue and does not believe in God ---- he HIMSELF has > told us that much. He does not appear to practice Judaism per se ---- > but that is for him to say. I had no idea there was any question. But Jewish law states that if one's mother is Jewish, or one has had a genuine conversion, then one is a Jew. > | > Well, Disraeli DID claim to be Jewish. I proved that: > | > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > O.K. ---- Let's See.... Let me know :-) Susan Please see below. DSH | > Good Points.... | > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] | to pick one. ONE. | I know someone who picked "Druid" just to be a jerk. Yes, I understand. We'd never let them get away with that here. Here in Hawai'i people regularly pick two or even write in alternatives when they can. Chinese and Hawaiian Vietnamese and Caucasian Chinese and Caucasian Japanese and Caucasian Hawaiian and Caucasian Are some popular choices. People also describe themselves as "Portuguese" or Samoan, Tongan, Tahitian ---- and so forth. Spencer | > I don't know whether Gans considers himself as Jewish or not. He | > belongs to no synagogue and does not believe in God ---- he HIMSELF has [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] | | Susan > > And the Jews who say Disraeli was Jewish but an apostate make perfect > > sense. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I find it extremely arrogant for non-Jews to make rules about who is/not > Jewish. Paul is jewish. And you're making a big mistake even pretending to ally with Hines, a known anti-semite. SignatureDrew ---- "Some who get credit for being Conservative are merely stupid." I told you Gans, our farblondjet Left-Wing NYU chemist would not admit he was DEAD WRONG about Disraeli ---- EVEN by Gans's OWN criteria for determining who is Jewish and who is not. That's ANOTHER massive PRATFALL for Gans. PRATFALL!!! KAWHOMP!!! KERSPLAT!!! My pet goose is off to an EXCELLENT start in February. Top Form...For The Top Banana. D. Spencer Hines Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor Hmmmmmm... Gans certainly has his work cut out for him.... Susan Cohen has obviously been making some very telling points. Judaism 101: http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm "Who is a Jew?" "A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversion to Judaism." "It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do. A person born to non-Jewish parents who has not undergone the formal process of conversion but who believes everything that Orthodox Jews believe and observes every law and custom of Judaism is still a non-Jew, even in the eyes of the most liberal movements of Judaism, and a person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish religion is still a Jew, even in the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox. In this sense, Judaism is more like a nationality than like other religions, and being Jewish is like a citizenship. See What Is Judaism?" [...] http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm#Who D. Spencer Hines Deus Vult Sholem Aleichem. Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor Gans just continues to waffle, lie and throw out red herrings in this thread. This is another standard tactic he uses. He hopes his opponent, Susan Cohen, will simply give up in disgust ---- which frequently happens. DSH Yep... By his OWN narrow definition, Gans is NOT a Jew -- so he doesn't get to decide who is a Jew. Susan Cohen is correct. He says he is NOT a religious Jew and that is, according to Gans, the only way one can be a Jew. Gans insists any OTHER sort of Jewishness is "without real content." So, once again, Gans has been hoist with his own petard. KAWHOMP!!! KERSPLAT!!! This is like shooting fish in a barrel. DSH | [snip rest of desperate blather] | | Grow up. | We are discussing feelings towards other's religious beliefs, not how I feel | about this thread. | Now, instead of making up ridiculous things for you to pretend you are right | about, & throwing around childish ad hominem to try to make yourself feel | better at being thoroughly defeated throughout this entire discussion, why | don't you just admit that you were wrong to ever suggest that non-Jews get | to decide who is/not a Jew? | | Susan |
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