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History Forum / General / British History / July 2009French President Sarkozy Says Burqas Are 'Not Welcome' In France
Sarkozy Is Right Too... Burqas Should Not Be Welcome In The United States Either. ---- DSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor ------------------------------------------ Sarkozy says burqas are 'not welcome' in France Jun 22 10:24 AM US/Eastern PARIS (AP) - President Nicolas Sarkozy lashed out Monday at the practice of wearing the Muslim burqa, insisting the full-body religious gown is a sign of the "debasement" of women and that it won't be welcome in France. Excellent! -- DSH The French leader expressed support for a recent call by dozens of legislators to create a parliamentary commission to study a small but growing trend of wearing the full-body garment in France. In the first presidential address in 136 years to a joint session of France's two houses of parliament, Sarkozy laid out his support for a ban even before the panel has been approved — braving critics who fear the issue is a marginal one and could stigmatize Muslims in France. "In our country, we cannot accept that women be prisoners behind a screen, cut off from all social life, deprived of all identity," Sarkozy said to extended applause in a speech at the Chateau of Versailles southwest of Paris. True. -- DSH "The burqa is not a religious sign, it's a sign of subservience, a sign of debasement — I want to say it solemnly," he said. "It will not be welcome on the territory of the French Republic." Excellent! It is directly counter to the Great Principles of the French Culture, Liberty, Equality, Fraternity -- as well as those of the American Culture. -- DSH In France, the terms "burqa" and "niqab" often are used interchangeably. The former refers to a full-body covering worn largely in Afghanistan with only a mesh screen over the eyes, whereas the latter is a full-body veil, often in black, with slits for the eyes. Later Monday, Sarkozy was expected to host a state dinner with Sheik Hamad Bin Jassem Al Thani of Qatar. Many women in the Persian Gulf state wear Islamic head coverings in public — whether while shopping or driving cars. So, let them wear it in Qatar but NOT in France OR the United States, outside the home. -- DSH France enacted a law in 2004 banning the Islamic headscarf and other conspicuous religious symbols from public schools, sparking fierce debate at home and abroad. France has Western Europe's largest Muslim population, an estimated 5 million people. A government spokesman said Friday that it would seek to set up a parliamentary commission that could propose legislation aimed at barring Muslim women from wearing the head-to-toe gowns outside the home. Excellent! -- DSH The issue is highly divisive even within the government. France's junior minister for human rights, Rama Yade, said she was open to a ban if it is aimed at protecting women forced to wear the burqa. But Immigration Minister Eric Besson said a ban would only "create tensions." A leading French Muslim group warned against studying the burqa. ------------------------------- Absurd! -- DSH Burqas and Niqabs also serve as convenient disguises for Islamofascist Jihadist Terrorists and Homicide Bombers -- so that's another good reason for prohibiting them.  SignatureD. Spencer Hines Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum > Sarkozy Is Right Too... > > Burqas Should Not Be Welcome In The United States Either. you can dress as you damn well please in the U.S. and it is good that is so. >> Sarkozy Is Right Too... >> >> Burqas Should Not Be Welcome In The United States Either. > > you can dress as you damn well please in the U.S. and it is good that is > so. What color of burkha do you wear, ohaha? >>> Sarkozy Is Right Too... >>> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > What color of burkha do you wear, ohaha? sieg heil fakenamer, >>>> Sarkozy Is Right Too... >>>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > sieg heil fakenamer, Godwin. FOAD, ohaha >>>>> Sarkozy Is Right Too... >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Godwin. FOAD, ohaha godwin doesn't apply when its true. >>>>>> Sarkozy Is Right Too... >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > godwin doesn't apply when its true. Godwin. By the way, ohaha, you haven't answered the question yet, what color of burkha do you wear? > >>>>>> Sarkozy Is Right Too... > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Godwin. By the way, ohaha, you haven't answered the question yet, what > color of burkha do you wear? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jacko, Ohaha didn't answer you the first time because it's a homo flame question. The Grand Mufti of Marseilles has issued a fatwah that all French Muslim females remove their face and hair coverings when in public. Not so long ago American women wore veils as well as hats in public places. The homeland security issue regarding Muslim dress will not surface until a terrorist has used a burqa to hide his AK-47 or backpack full of explosives. When a dozen or so Americans get vaporised by a terrorist in burqa raiments, only then will we get a Federal law banning burqas and Hawaiian mu mu's. Of course the law will be contested by fat Americans, and the Supreme Court will have to rule on their heavy challenge. Cheers, David H ~~~~~~~~~ >When a dozen or so Americans get vaporised by a terrorist in >burqa raiments, only then will we get a Federal law banning >burqas and Hawaiian mu mu's. Of course the law will be >contested by fat Americans, and the Supreme Court will have >to rule on their heavy challenge. i would love to defend a client on either side of that debate, but I wouldn't take it pro bono mk5000 http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202430709617 NLJ ROUNDTABLE Economic crisis brings pro bono to crossroads Scholars, practitioners and students weigh in on changes to legal services for the poor. May 18, 2009 The National Law Journal and the Association of American Law Schools on April 4 sponsored "Pro Bono and the Economic Crisis: The Impact on Education and Practice." The event was part of the Building a Better Legal Profession's (BBLP) Inaugural Student Leadership Conference at Stanford Law School. Attending the roundtable were students participating in the BBLP conference. Each member of the roundtable opened with remarks about the current state of pro bono representation. They then answered questions posed by students from the audience. DEBORAH RHODE: You already are busy people, and you will find that finding time to do pro bono work and, even more, to create institutional change that will make it possible, is a time-consuming proposition. It's hard, and in a profession where we've seen an escalation of billable hours over the last couple decades, what hasn't changed is the number of hours in a day. It's hard to carve out that kind of time for the hard work of institutional change, but it's enormously important that you make that time, and that work on issues of social justice and fairness is not just essential for our profession; it's also one of the most fulfilling things you can do with your life. Still, less than half of this nation's law students graduate with a pro bono experience, let alone a well-supervised one. I'm reminded of the importance of this when I think back at my experience at Yale....At that time, there was no pro bono program at all, and there were, however, some clinics, and my best experience and, in fact, the experience that kept me in law school was working in a poverty law office. I will tell you once again that money has done a lot of good things for me in my life, but there's nothing more satisfying than being able to send a message with your own resources. So if we want lawyers to take professional responsibility seriously, then we all have a personal responsibility to model it in our conduct and our priorities. >>> Sarkozy Is Right Too... >>> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > What color of burkha do you wear, ohaha? Just to mention some real world stuff, my wife and I know an Egyptian family well enough that my wife stays with them, in Cairo, when I am not there. They are both from highly-placed families and she is a graduate of the American University, in Cairo, and he is an archeologist, who does tours. They both speak English; she could be mistaken for an American. Years ago she wore jeans and tops like any college student, but somewhere along the way thought that she should be more in line with Islam and now dresses with the full robe and headress, which, Egyptian style, does not cover the face. They want to return to the US, he has visited before, and they have relatives here. But now she is worried about the dress, and the propaganda news that they get. We know Egyptian families here, and it seems no problem, and my wife even met a stranger, in a store, and recognizing the dress asked her, and she said no problem. This summer, he is coming to visit us, alone, which is not a problem, but I'm thinking that he is checking the place out, for his wife, and now they have three children, who, naturally, wear only Mickey Mouse Club clothes. It will be no problem, but all this talk of "banning burkhas" does no help in world understanding. Underneath the clothing they are human beings, and if treated like human beings will probably be more welcoming. Well, that's my two cents, and sorry I took up your time. We have our culture and customs here in the United States. Egyptians have a different culture and customs in Egypt. We Americans don't have any obligation to honor all the customs that prevail in a Muslim Nation.... Neither do the French. SignatureD. Spencer Hines Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum > We have our culture and customs here in the United States. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Neither do the French. and one American tradition is you can dress as you damn well please. >We have our culture and customs here in the United States. > >Egyptians have a different culture and customs in Egypt. > >We Americans don't have any obligation to honor all the customs that >prevail in a Muslim Nation.... Actually we do. It is called Freedom of Religion and many see the wearing of the Burka as a religious issue. >Neither do the French. I wouldn't know about the French, nor even really care! Signature"Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks." >>We have our culture and customs here in the United States. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Actually we do. It is called Freedom of Religion and many see the > wearing of the Burka as a religious issue. It's political. SignatureWilliam Black :>>We have our culture and customs here in the United States. :>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] : :It's political. There's also that whole freedom of political speech thing. Just how is wearing a burka *political*? Is your wearing pants political? Signature"I disapprove of what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it." -- Voltaire > :>>We have our culture and customs here in the United > States. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Is your wearing pants political? I heard a rumour that McCaw walks around completely naked under his clothes. * squawk..* Perhaps the Burka exists to spare men the sight of *ugly* women. Fred J. McCall wrote: > :>>We have our culture and customs here in the United States. > :>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Just how is wearing a burka *political*? It makes a statement. It says something about the wearer that has nothing to do with their religious identity. > Is your wearing pants political? Two hundred years ago wearing trousers rather than breeches was a political act... "Damn democratical trousers..." SignatureWilliam Black >>>We have our culture and customs here in the United States. >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >It's political. William, I drove up to Yorkshire a few weeks ago. Do these pics look anything like where you live? http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f221/terracops/IMG_3508.jpg http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f221/terracops/IMG_3591.jpg http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f221/terracops/IMG_4028.jpg http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f221/terracops/IMG_4056.jpg http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f221/terracops/IMG_4055.jpg >I drove up to Yorkshire a few weeks ago. Do these pics look anything like where >you live? If he's from Yorkshire it's probably more like this http://shoutweb.co.uk/galleries/leedspride2008/images/Leeds%20Pride%202008%20065.jpg http://shoutweb.co.uk/galleries/leedspride2008/images/Leeds%20Pride%202008%20056.jpg http://shoutweb.co.uk/galleries/leedspride2008/images/Leeds%20Pride%202008%20073.jpg http://www.phoenixcsc.com/image/BigEckShaggingSheep.jpg >>I drove up to Yorkshire a few weeks ago. Do these pics look anything like >>where you live? > > If he's from Yorkshire it's probably more like this http://shoutweb.co.uk/galleries/leedspride2008/images/Leeds%20Pride%202008%20065.jpg http://shoutweb.co.uk/galleries/leedspride2008/images/Leeds%20Pride%202008%20056.jpg http://shoutweb.co.uk/galleries/leedspride2008/images/Leeds%20Pride%202008%20073.jpg > http://www.phoenixcsc.com/image/BigEckShaggingSheep.jpg I'm afraid I don't move in the same circles you seem to. SignatureWilliam Black >>>>We have our culture and customs here in the United States. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f221/terracops/IMG_4055.jpg They could all have been taken within thirty miles of where I live, or as far away as a hundred. The last one is very typical of this area, the others look as if they're from a bit further west as there aren't enough trees, but it's difficult to tell. SignatureWilliam Black >>>>>We have our culture and customs here in the United States. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >from a bit further west as there aren't enough trees, but it's difficult to >tell. We left Essex and drove North http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f221/terracops/IMG_3143.jpg while speeding by fields of rape http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f221/terracops/IMG_3156.jpg with old pillboxes or machine gun bunkers. http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f221/terracops/IMG_4477.jpg There was plenty of sheep http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f221/terracops/IMG_3727.jpg and gypsy caravans. http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f221/terracops/IMG_3886.jpg And plenty of nice friendly pubs. http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f221/terracops/IMG_3482.jpg http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f221/terracops/IMG_3724.jpg http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f221/terracops/IMG_4204.jpg http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f221/terracops/IMG_4009.jpg Good Photos... SignatureDSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor >>>>>>We have our culture and customs here in the United States. >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > > http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f221/terracops/IMG_4009.jpg (snipped) >>>> William, >>>> I drove up to Yorkshire a few weeks ago. Do these pics look anything [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >>>> >>>> http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f221/terracops/IMG_4055.jpg Sorry to butt in here but those photos instantly took me back to my 1940 evacuation to Hebden Bridge. Almost identical to the road I walked every morning to Colden School. Very moving memories. The beauty of everything then still affects me. Good work. What camera did you use? SignatureDSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor >>>>> William, >>>>> I drove up to Yorkshire a few weeks ago. Do these pics look [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >>>>> >>>>> http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f221/terracops/IMG_4055.jpg >Good work. > >What camera did you use? I used a digital Canon EOS Rebel XT with a Canon 28-135 auto zoom lens. Some of the photos were taken through the front windshield (windscreen). Thanks. >DSH >Lux et Veritas et Libertas [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >>>>>> >>>>>> http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f221/terracops/IMG_4055.jpg >>Good work. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Thanks. http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_reviews/a700/samples/img_0003.jpg Exif IFD0 * Camera Make = Canon * Camera Model = Canon PowerShot A700 * Picture Orientation = normal (1) * X-Resolution = 180/1 = 180 * Y-Resolution = 180/1 = 180 * X/Y-Resolution Unit = inch (2) * Last Modified Date/Time = 2006:03:14 11:05:15 * Y/Cb/Cr Positioning (Subsampling) = centered / center of pixel array (1) Exif Sub IFD * Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) = 1/60 second = 0.01667 second * Lens F-Number/F-Stop = 35/10 = F3.5 * Exif Version = 0220 * Original Date/Time = 2006:03:14 11:05:15 * Digitization Date/Time = 2006:03:14 11:05:15 * Components Configuration = 0x01,0x02,0x03,0x00 / YCbCr * Compressed Bits per Pixel = 5/1 = 5 * Shutter Speed Value (APEX) = 189/32 Shutter Speed (Exposure Time) = 1/59.97 second * Aperture Value (APEX) = 116/32 Aperture = F3.51 * Exposure Bias (EV) = 0/3 = 0 * Max Aperture Value (APEX) = 116/32 = 3.63 Max Aperture = F3.51 * Metering Mode = pattern / multi-segment (5) * Flash = Flash fired, auto mode, red-eye reduction mode * Focal Length = 13159/1000 mm = 13.16 mm * Maker Note = 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0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x0 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180 * X/Y-Resolution Unit = inch (2) * Embedded thumbnail image: Exif Interoperability IFD * Interoperability Index = R98 * Interoperability Version = 0100 * Related Image Width = 2816 pixels * Related Image Length = 2112 pixels > >In article <Dty0m.11$KO5....@eagle.america.net>, D. Spencer Hines says... > [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > read more » ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Fascinating story. You should tell us more. David H ~~~~~~~` On Jun 25, 4:56 pm, Adamastor <nos...@home.net> wrote: > >In article <Dty0m.11$KO5....@eagle.america.net>, D. Spencer Hines says... > [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > read more » ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Fascinating story. You should tell us more. David H ~~~~~~~` ************************** The plot is interesting, but the cast of characters all look the same. >On Jun 25, 4:56 pm, Adamastor <nos...@home.net> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >> * Focal Length = 13159/1000 mm = 13.16 mm >> * Maker Note = >> read more » > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >************************** >The plot is interesting, but the cast of characters all look the same. Sorry about that, the question was asked and I just extracted the EXIF information from one of the photos, giving the camera information, the first two lines would have been enough. Didn't notice the rubbish. <blush> Fine pictures BTW. >>On Jun 25, 4:56 pm, Adamastor <nos...@home.net> wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > >Fine pictures BTW. Why did it come up with a Canon PowerShot A700? I don't even know what that is... >>>On Jun 25, 4:56 pm, Adamastor <nos...@home.net> wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > Why did it come up with a Canon PowerShot A700? I don't even know what that > is... I agree those are very fascinating photos. Would you please post all the data for *your* camera, especially the shutter speeds. >>>>On Jun 25, 4:56 pm, Adamastor <nos...@home.net> wrote: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] >I agree those are very fascinating photos. Would you please post all >the data for *your* camera, especially the shutter speeds. I have them stored in Microsoft Photo Editor. I can get the dimension of the photo, date taken, camera model, type (jpeg), and size of photo. I don't know how to get more info from that software. Do you? I can get it from the camera with the flash card installed but the card is not in my hand right now. It will take a few days to get the cards, since I have them loaned out. >>>>>On Jun 25, 4:56 pm, Adamastor <nos...@home.net> wrote: >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > It will > take a few days to get the cards, since I have them loaned out. I captured your first shot in the series and ran it through Canon Zoom Browser EXIF Data comes up as follows: File Name IMG_3508.jpg Camera Model Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL XT Firmware Firmware 1.0.3 Shooting Date/Time 5/26/2009 6:18:27 PM Owner's Name unknown Shooting Mode Landscape Tv( Shutter Speed ) 1/125 Av( Aperture Value ) 8.0 Metering Mode Evaluative Metering Exposure Compensation 0 ISO Speed 100 Lens 28.0 - 135.0 mm Focal Length 28.0 mm Image Size 1023x682 Image Quality Fine Flash Off White Balance Mode Auto AF Mode One-Shot AF Parameters Settings Contrast Mid. High Sharpness Mid. High Color saturation Mid. High Color tone 0 Color Space sRGB Noise Reduction Off File Size 292 KB Custom Function C.Fn:01-0 C.Fn:02-0 C.Fn:03-0 C.Fn:04-0 C.Fn:05-0 C.Fn:06-0 C.Fn:07-0 C.Fn:08-0 C.Fn:09-0 Drive Mode Single shooting Camera Body No. 1820743728 >>>>>>On Jun 25, 4:56 pm, Adamastor <nos...@home.net> wrote: >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 119 lines] >Drive Mode Single shooting >Camera Body No. 1820743728 WOW! I didn't know you could do that... That's correct except I have the time set for here in Florida. There's 5 hours difference. Oh, and the image size is quite a bit smaller because I posted it through Photobucket. >>> In article <BO6dnQ_AgadQEtjXnZ2dnUVZ_gOdnZ2d@supernews.com>, Eugene >>> Stebbs [quoted text clipped - 138 lines] > size is > quite a bit smaller because I posted it through Photobucket. Check the software which came with your camera - you might have a copy of zoombrowser on it. Seeing as how we're talking photos - heres some I took last wednesday. http://s235.photobucket.com/albums/ee233/nbrooks503/Clapton/ClaptonWinwood/ Nigel Brooks >>>> In article <BO6dnQ_AgadQEtjXnZ2dnUVZ_gOdnZ2d@supernews.com>, Eugene >>>> Stebbs [quoted text clipped - 146 lines] >http://s235.photobucket.com/albums/ee233/nbrooks503/Clapton/ClaptonWinwood/ >Nigel Brooks Nice! How in the hell did you manage a photo pass? >>>>> In article <BO6dnQ_AgadQEtjXnZ2dnUVZ_gOdnZ2d@supernews.com>, Eugene >>>>> Stebbs [quoted text clipped - 156 lines] > > Nice! How in the hell did you manage a photo pass? I showed them some of the other stuff I've taken at previous Clapton concerts and just asked for one. It just goes to prove that if you don't ask - you'll never know. Nigel Brooks >>>>>> In article <BO6dnQ_AgadQEtjXnZ2dnUVZ_gOdnZ2d@supernews.com>, Eugene >>>>>> Stebbs [quoted text clipped - 162 lines] > >Nigel Brooks Fantastic! I don't believe that I can top that one. >Check the software which came with your camera - you might have a copy of >zoombrowser on it. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >http://s235.photobucket.com/albums/ee233/nbrooks503/Clapton/ClaptonWinwood/ >Nigel Brooks Ok, it seems I need to change the software I'm using, Exif Viewer, which is a plug-in for FireFox. Convenient but wrong. What software are you using? This is what I get for: http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_reviews/a700/samples/img_0003.jpg Exif IFD0 * Camera Make = Canon * Camera Model = Canon PowerShot A700 * Picture Orientation = normal (1) * X-Resolution = 180/1 = 180 * Y-Resolution = 180/1 = 180 * X/Y-Resolution Unit = inch (2) * Last Modified Date/Time = 2006:03:14 11:05:15 * Y/Cb/Cr Positioning (Subsampling) = centered / center of pixel array (1) Exif Sub IFD * Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) = 1/60 second = 0.01667 second * Lens F-Number/F-Stop = 35/10 = F3.5 * Exif Version = 0220 * Original Date/Time = 2006:03:14 11:05:15 * Digitization Date/Time = 2006:03:14 11:05:15 * Components Configuration = 0x01,0x02,0x03,0x00 / YCbCr * Compressed Bits per Pixel = 5/1 = 5 * Shutter Speed Value (APEX) = 189/32 Shutter Speed (Exposure Time) = 1/59.97 second * Aperture Value (APEX) = 116/32 Aperture = F3.51 * Exposure Bias (EV) = 0/3 = 0 * Max Aperture Value (APEX) = 116/32 = 3.63 Max Aperture = F3.51 * Metering Mode = pattern / multi-segment (5) * Flash = Flash fired, auto mode, red-eye reduction mode * Focal Length = 13159/1000 mm = 13.16 mm Seems like it only recognises one type of Canon Cameras. >>Check the software which came with your camera - you might have a copy of >>zoombrowser on it. [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > Seems like it only recognises one type of Canon Cameras. Canon zoombrowser software comes with most canon cameras and will read the data from other camera makes http://www.photo-freeware.net/zoombrowser-ex.php or Canon Digital Photo Professional http://www.canon-europe.com/Support/software/dpp/ Nigel Brooks >>>Check the software which came with your camera - you might have a copy of >>>zoombrowser on it. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >Nigel Brooks Thank you. >>>On Jun 25, 4:56 pm, Adamastor <nos...@home.net> wrote: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] >Why did it come up with a Canon PowerShot A700? I don't even know what that >is... I'm not even going to try a guess, I downloaded the picture and extracted the EXIF information which is attached to the pic by the camera... Eugene, the file shows shutter speed of 1/60 and aperture f3.5. I wonder if Dino can confirm that or any of the information? >>>We have our culture and customs here in the United States. >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >It's political. It has been Made one. It didn't start out as one. Signature"Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks." >>>>We have our culture and customs here in the United States. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> > It has been Made one. It didn't start out as one. No. I think it has always been a political symbol. It's not mentioned in the Koran and while the symbolism varies from repressing women to female identity it remains a political symbol. SignatureWilliam Black >>>> Sarkozy Is Right Too... >>>> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > welcoming. > Well, that's my two cents, and sorry I took up your time. I haven't read through all this thread, but I always make time to read your posts, Colonel. I was once talking with a Muslim woman about the wearing of the burkha (actually, I think her attire was referred to as something else). She was quite defensive - and rightly so - saying something to the effect that believe it or not "many of us (Muslim) women are given the choice, and many of us do not see the allure in dressing in the way of American icons such as Brittney Spears" (with low-riding jeans, breasts protruding from the tops of their blouses). She certainly has a point, and it is really something [for a man] to be able to relate to [a woman] on an intellectual level using eye contact rather than staring at her breasts or hips. - nilita >>>>> Sarkozy Is Right Too... >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > [for a man] to be able to relate to [a woman] on an intellectual level > using eye contact rather than staring at her breasts or hips. It makes you wonder why they don't wear them in South Asia... There the Brittney Spears image is considered equally offensive. But very few Muslim women wear the full 'bat' outfit. SignatureWilliam Black >> I was once talking with a Muslim woman about the wearing of the burkha >> (actually, I think her attire was referred to as something else). She [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > But very few Muslim women wear the full 'bat' outfit. I might add WHAT EYE CONTACT????? You can't make eye contact through burka netting> http://rosemarymaccabe.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/burkha.jpg As based on this picture you couldn't make ANY contact through the burkha. That's the point mk5000 Heck no, he won't go, said lawyer to client Seven years later, the effort to protect his financial stake and get a guardian appointed for his client has consumed the case. Mike Scarcella May 18, 2009 There are lawyers and clients who disagree. And then there are Nathan Lewin and Elena Sturdza, who have been battling over her competency to fire him for nearly seven years. Sturdza, an architect, says that Lewin sabotaged her case, she fired him, and now she's proceeding pro se. But Lewin of Washington's Lewin & Lewin isn't ready to walk away from a lawsuit that he believes could produce a substantial award - if his client will listen to him. Lewin wants a guardian ad litem named for Sturdza, who he says can't make rational decisions about the case. Sturdza is suing a rival architect she accuses of copying her design for the United Arab Emirates embassy in Washington. She is seeking millions of dollars in damages and reportedly rejected a $500,000 settlement years ago. Lewin is working for a 33% contingent fee. "Of course, I've got a financial interest," Lewin said after a May 13 hearing in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia. "She's going to lose this case if she goes alone, and all my work goes out the window. That's not fair." > >>>> Sarkozy Is Right Too... > [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > - nilita Just in case someone thinks its a Muslim thing. This reminds me of custom/rule from the turn of the 19th/20th that Jewish women would only appear to strangers wearing a wig. "In mein own hair?" was the quote one women is recorded as saying, like going naked in the street. Jewish Modesty Warriors Take Up Burkas Nobody's forcing them, but they want to cover up Tamar Fox by Tamar Fox, February 1, 2008 14 comments TAGS: * In the News Y-Love, over at Jewlicious, calls attention to a crazy new trend in the ultra-Orthodox community. A small group of women in Israel, intent on being as uber-modest as possible, have started voluntarily wearing burkas and hijabs. Y-Love links to and quotes from Muqata blog, which has translated part of the Haaretz article about the new fashion move: Appropriate for Synagogue: and mosque, too.Appropriate for Synagogue: and mosque, too. A group of Ultra-Orthodox chareidi women in Ramat Beit Shemesh have hyperbolated tznius [laws of modesty] to the extreme and now wear burkas whenever they go outside their home. Not advocated by any known rabbi, the burka fad is apparently a radical ultra-Orthodox feminist "invention", and many are wary of this custom being adopted or repudiated. The radical Beit Shemesh tznius patrol is even scratching it's head whether someone managed to out do them, and leave them in the dust with the liberal left. The husband of one such woman took his wife to Beit Din (religious court) to request from her to remove the burka due to shalom bayit (a peaceful home). The court ordered a religious divorce even though the husband didn't even request one -- because the court found her behaviour to be so bizarre. Mother in Israel posts some truly unbelievable pictures, and the issue is being discussed everywhere from the Forward’s Bintel Brief to the Lilith blog where Friend of Jewcy Rebecca Honig Friedman writes: They are adopting the ideal of modesty that to some extent has been ingrained in them by male religious authority (and no doubt by female authorities, too), but they are doing so on their own terms. They are taking the power of dictating women’s dress away from the male religious authorities in their community, deciding for themselves what modesty means and, in classic fashion, being persecuted for it. These women have the right to wear whatever they want, but we should also question the values that have led them to such extreme decisions, and the society that perpetuates those values. I’ll be the first to admit it: there are days when I would happily put on a burka so as not to have to spend half an hour blow-drying my hair and putting on makeup in order to be presentable. And I think the visceral negative reaction to burkas has more to do with the mistreatment of women in Afghanistan and other Muslim countries than with the burka itself (and anyway, all of the pictures I’ve seen so far are not of women in burkas, they’re of women wearing jilbab). Do I think the women in Ramat Beit Shemesh are going overboard? Absolutely. But though I find it all pretty strange, it’s not as offensive as if they were being told to wear jilbab by their rabbis, which, no doubt, is just round the bend. http://www.jewcy.com/faithhacker/jewish_modesty_warriors_take_burkas >> I haven't read through all this thread, but I always make time to >> read your posts, Colonel. [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > > http://www.jewcy.com/faithhacker/jewish_modesty_warriors_take_burkas Religious writer/philosopher and former Catholic Nun, Karen Armstrong (a fascinating read IMHO) even defended the wearing of religious coverings, including a nun's habit, for the same reason. Some women prefer to dress modestly and be related to, possibly, for their intellect/personality, etc. Again, it's about personal choice, as she pointed out. - nilita > Religious writer/philosopher and former Catholic Nun, Karen Armstrong (a > fascinating read IMHO) even defended the wearing of religious coverings, > including a nun's habit, for the same reason. Some women prefer to dress > modestly and be related to, possibly, for their intellect/personality, etc. > Again, it's about personal choice, as she pointed out. I see little difference between a Nun's habit and Islamic dress. Is there a historical precedent to link the two, does anyone know? > > Religious writer/philosopher and former Catholic Nun, Karen Armstrong (a > > fascinating read IMHO) even defended the wearing of religious coverings, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I see little difference between a Nun's habit and Islamic dress. Is > there a historical precedent to link the two, does anyone know? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A very good question. In Houston there are Muslims who prefer Catholic schools because head coverings for females are approved and there is a commonality among revered religious figures such as Jesus, Moses, Mary, Abraham, Solomon, David, and Gabriel. David H ~~~~~ > > Religious writer/philosopher and former Catholic Nun, Karen Armstrong (a > > fascinating read IMHO) even defended the wearing of religious coverings, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I see little difference between a Nun's habit and Islamic dress. Is > there a historical precedent to link the two, does anyone know? The burka originated as protection against the desert climate. There is a book The Habit: A History of the Clothing of Catholic Nuns (Paperback) by Elizabeth Kuhns >> Religious writer/philosopher and former Catholic Nun, Karen Armstrong (a >> fascinating read IMHO) even defended the wearing of religious coverings, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I see little difference between a Nun's habit and Islamic dress. Is there > a historical precedent to link the two, does anyone know? nuns don't hide their faces. >>> Religious writer/philosopher and former Catholic Nun, Karen Armstrong (a >>> fascinating read IMHO) even defended the wearing of religious coverings, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > nuns don't hide their faces. Nor do all Muslims. Not all Muslims wear Burkhas. >>>> Religious writer/philosopher and former Catholic Nun, Karen Armstrong >>>> (a fascinating read IMHO) even defended the wearing of religious [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Nor do all Muslims. Not all Muslims wear Burkhas. the ones who don't wear burkas aren't the issue now are they Renia?. >>>>> Religious writer/philosopher and former Catholic Nun, Karen Armstrong >>>>> (a fascinating read IMHO) even defended the wearing of religious [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > the ones who don't wear burkas aren't the issue now are they Renia?. What issue are you talking about, Ray? QUOTE The headcovers (knumur) should be drawn over the neck slits (joyoob). Khumur is the plural of the Arabic word "khimar" which means a headcover. Juyoob is the plural of the Arabic word "jaiyb" (a derivative of jawb or cutting) refers to the neck slit (of the dress). This means that the headcover should be drawn so as to cover not only the hair, but it could also be drawn over the neck and to be extended so as to cover the bosom. ENDQUOTE ( http://www.iman.co.nz/index.htm?innerpage_ed.htm?ed/dress.htm ) This is not the same as the Burkha, which covers the whole body, including the face and eyes. >>>>>> Religious writer/philosopher and former Catholic Nun, Karen Armstrong >>>>>> (a fascinating read IMHO) even defended the wearing of religious [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >This is not the same as the Burkha, which covers the whole body, >including the face and eyes. I think he was referring to gender... and that's the whole point, isn't it? I was at a boot sale (flea market) in England when an Indian woman and a young girl was pushing a baby stroller with bags tied to the stroller handle. The bags filled with purchased items became heavier than the baby, so when the young girl let go of the handle, the stroller and baby tipped over backwards. The baby was fine but the mother panicked. Rather than try to pick up the stroller she started grabbing the bags while trying to keep her face covered. She wasn't having much success so I uprighted the stroller and the baby. That frightened the woman even more. I was told that in India we could have both been whipped or beaten for that little episode. > QUOTE > The headcovers (knumur) should be drawn over the neck slits (joyoob). [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > This is not the same as the Burkha, which covers the whole body, including > the face and eyes. and what does the header to this thread say Renia. >> QUOTE >> The headcovers (knumur) should be drawn over the neck slits (joyoob). [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > and what does the header to this thread say Renia. I wasn't going to change the thread title just because I asked a different question. >> >>>> Sarkozy Is Right Too... >> [quoted text clipped - 110 lines] > they were being told to wear jilbab by their rabbis, which, no doubt, > is just round the bend. As I said, it's political... SignatureWilliam Black Just in case someone thinks its a Muslim thing. This reminds me of custom/rule from the turn of the 19th/20th that Jewish women would only appear to strangers wearing a wig. "In mein own hair?" was the quote one women is recorded as saying, like going naked in the street. Jewish Modesty Warriors Take Up Burkas Nobody's forcing them, but they want to cover up Tamar Fox by Tamar Fox, February 1, 2008 14 comments TAGS: * In the News Y-Love, over at Jewlicious, calls attention to a crazy new trend in the ultra-Orthodox community. A small group of women in Israel, intent on being as uber-modest as possible, have started voluntarily wearing burkas and hijabs. Y-Love links to and quotes from Muqata blog, which has translated part of the Haaretz article about the new fashion move: Appropriate for Synagogue: and mosque, too.Appropriate for Synagogue: and mosque, too. A group of Ultra-Orthodox chareidi women in Ramat Beit Shemesh have hyperbolated tznius [laws of modesty] to the extreme and now wear burkas whenever they go outside their home. Not advocated by any known rabbi, the burka fad is apparently a radical ultra-Orthodox feminist "invention", and many are wary of this custom being adopted or repudiated. The radical Beit Shemesh tznius patrol is even scratching it's head whether someone managed to out do them, and leave them in the dust with the liberal left. The husband of one such woman took his wife to Beit Din (religious court) to request from her to remove the burka due to shalom bayit (a peaceful home). The court ordered a religious divorce even though the husband didn't even request one -- because the court found her behaviour to be so bizarre. Mother in Israel posts some truly unbelievable pictures, and the issue is being discussed everywhere from the Forward’s Bintel Brief to the Lilith blog where Friend of Jewcy Rebecca Honig Friedman writes: They are adopting the ideal of modesty that to some extent has been ingrained in them by male religious authority (and no doubt by female authorities, too), but they are doing so on their own terms. They are taking the power of dictating women’s dress away from the male religious authorities in their community, deciding for themselves what modesty means and, in classic fashion, being persecuted for it. These women have the right to wear whatever they want, but we should also question the values that have led them to such extreme decisions, and the society that perpetuates those values. I’ll be the first to admit it: there are days when I would happily put on a burka so as not to have to spend half an hour blow-drying my hair and putting on makeup in order to be presentable. And I think the visceral negative reaction to burkas has more to do with the mistreatment of women in Afghanistan and other Muslim countries than with the burka itself (and anyway, all of the pictures I’ve seen so far are not of women in burkas, they’re of women wearing jilbab). Do I think the women in Ramat Beit Shemesh are going overboard? Absolutely. But though I find it all pretty strange, it’s not as offensive as if they were being told to wear jilbab by their rabbis, which, no doubt, is just round the bend. http://www.jewcy.com/faithhacker/jewish_modesty_warriors_take_burkas ============= no I don't think and never did think that the burka was the only such example. The mere fact that you think you have to go out with makeup and your hair done shows just as much that you are a victim of repression. OMG what would happen if men would have to look at a woman whose looks are not on the A list. As if any of them are the most pleasant of pictures. Burka and makeup - same thing. Different culture. Let's hope that with the coming changes, there will be new views mk5000 Choosing the next justice Obama should consider political experience, ideology, age, diversity. Erwin Chemerinsky May 18, 2009 Justice David Souter's retirement creates only the third U.S. Supreme Court vacancy to be filled by a Democratic president since 1967, when Thurgood Marshall was appointed to the Court, and the first in 15 years since Stephen Breyer's selection. There already is much speculation about possible names, but not nearly enough discussion of the criteria that President Obama should consider. Obviously, any nominee should have impeccable qualifications and be of unquestioned great intelligence and judicial temperament. But there are countless individuals who fit this bill. Four additional criteria seem most important: filling in what is missing on the current Court: ideology, age and diversity. What's missing? The current Court is filled with justices of unquestioned brilliance, but there are important things that are missing and they point in opposite directions. One thing missing is substantial political experience. The Supreme Court that decided Brown v. Board of Education did not have a single justice who had been a federal court of appeals judge. Every justice on the current Court was a federal court of appeals judge before elevation to the high court. The Court that decided Brown v. Board of Education had a former governor, a former senator and a former U.S. attorney general. The current Court has none of these. Running and serving in political office brings a real-world experience that cannot be gained in academia or law practice or on the bench. Every justice is a product of his or her life experiences, and these then influence the entire Court. Something is missing when none of the justices has been a governor or a senator or held high political office. The other thing missing on the current Court is substantial trial experience as a judge or a lawyer. Three of the current justices spent their careers primarily before going on the bench as academics. Some of the current justices never appeared in any court as attorneys. This is reflected in the Court's rulings. Recent decisions of the Court have created enormous confusion on basic questions as to when a federal court should dismiss a civil case or how a jury is to be instructed about punitive damages. A Supreme Court with members with more trial experience would be less likely to make these mistakes. >Just in case someone thinks its a Muslim thing. This reminds me of >custom/rule from the turn of the 19th/20th that Jewish women would >only appear to strangers wearing a wig. "In mein own hair?" was the >quote one women is recorded as saying, like going naked in the street. This is still the norm in some Orthodox congregations. >>>>> Sarkozy Is Right Too... >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > - nilita There is a middle ground however. A midpoint between a Britney style costume and a burkha. Both garbs make a public statement but millions of American women (and women around the world) wear modest comfortable clothes that show individual style. Take care SignatureStanley L. Moore "The belief in a supernatural source of evil is not necessary; men alone are quite capable of every wickedness." Joseph Conrad > I was once talking with a Muslim woman about the wearing of the burkha > (actually, I think her attire was referred to as something else). She was [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > - nilita I've heard a number of USian muslim women say this. I have not heard any in countries where Al Qaeda and Taliban have a majority. I am obviously basing my opinion on a book rather than a live person. I think it was in a Thousand Splendid Suns. The main Afghan female character was given in marriage to a man who handed her a burka and gave her the choice. More or less by my recollection, he said, I would prefer for you to wear this for modesty's sake. He had peer pressure from the Taliban controlled occupants of his village. She had peer pressure from the occupants of the village. Prior to that she happily strode around in a perfectly modest outfit except she didn't look like a beekeeper. So when she was given the choice what was she to say. No? What kind of choice is it for a woman, who was previously perfectly modestly attired except that her face was showing, to be told by society that she has a choice but she better do it risk ostracism and perhaps worse. Perhaps divorce. Perhaps her husband's clientele will cease doing business with him because his wife doesn't look like a beekeeper. The brainwashed will always say things like "I had a choice". Kind of a Stockholm syndrome. mk5000 Seven from Trinidad go on trial for hostage taking Choice of American victim brings island crime to D.C. court. Jordan Weissmann May 18, 2009 In April 2005, Balram Maharaj, a naturalized American citizen, was kidnapped at gunpoint from a bar in his native Trinidad. His captors demanded $500,000 for his release. After a week cut off from his daily medicines, Maharaj, who had diabetes and had recently suffered a stroke, died. The 61-year-old's body was cut apart and buried. But he was not forgotten. Four years after his death, Maharaj's case has become one of the largest, most complex examples of a little-discussed specialty of the U.S. Attorney's Office for the District of Columbia: prosecuting those who take Americans hostage overseas for ransom. Since 2000, the U.S. attorney's office has brought eight criminal hostage-taking cases - that is, kidnappings with no link to terrorism. None of the other cases have involved more than four defendants. In most, the victim survived to identify his captors. In some, suspects were caught with the victim or fleeing from police. The Maharaj case is different. The FBI's investigation dragged on for nine months before an arrest was made. Prosecutors spent more than two years extraditing the suspects. Seven alleged co-conspirators go on trial in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia this week. Four more have pleaded guilty. One has been acquitted. One still sits in jail in Trinidad. And the victim is dead. The prosecutors come from the federal major crimes section of the U.S. attorney's office in Washington, which handles international crimes not related to terrorism. (Cases with a terrorist link are prosecuted by the national security section.) Federal law provides that crimes against Americans overseas should be prosecuted in the District when the suspect has no ties to any state. "If you're going to take our citizens hostage, if you're going to abuse them or kill them, we have an interest in that, no matter where in the world you do it," said Patricia Stewart, chief of the federal major crimes section. While browsing soc.history.medieval I came across this interesting post by Raymond O'Hara (raymond-ohara@hotmail.com) (Possibly *snipped* for brevity): >> Sarkozy Is Right Too... >> >> Burqas Should Not Be Welcome In The United States Either. > > you can dress as you damn well please in the U.S. and it is good that is Thank you. *R* *H* SignatureThe 19th-century clown Joseph Grimaldi, when old and incurably depressed, visited a doctor. The physician advised him to cheer himself up by seeing the great comedian Grimaldi. Whereupon his patient told him: Doctor, I am Grimaldi. > Sarkozy Is Right Too... No piecemeal improvements; what the world needs is a Comprehensive Islamic Reform, since abolition would be unrealistic. >>Sarkozy Is Right Too... > > No piecemeal improvements; what the world needs is a Comprehensive > Islamic Reform, since abolition would be unrealistic. First, let's fix our own house with a Comprehensive Christian Reform. Then we can throw stones. ;-) > Sarkozy Is Right Too... > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Sarkozy says burqas are 'not welcome' in France As few showers as a lot of those frogettes take, maybe they should wear those tent things, too. > As few showers as a lot of those frogettes take, maybe they should wear > those tent things, too. That's foolish. That would make them sweatier mk5000 DLA Piper announces pay cuts, new compensation model Leigh Jones May 15, 2009 DLA Piper is slashing salaries for its U.S. associates in conjunction with an announcement that the law firm is shifting to merit-based compensation. The law firm will reduce first-year associate salaries in major markets from $160,000 to $145,000. First-year salaries of $145,000 in other cities will drop to $130,000. It will cut salaries at other class levels on a case-by-case basis, based on performance and class year. The firm has about 550 associates in the United States. DLA Piper announced the changes Friday in a firmwide memo written by Global Chairman Frank Burch Jr., Joint Chief Executive Lee Miller and U.S. managing partner Terry O'Malley. The memo stated that the three firm leaders themselves and other partners had taken "significant reductions" in their projected 2009 compensation. It also said that the firm had reduced compensation for senior counsel and of counsel attorneys. The memo stated that changes were based on the downturn in the economy and on client needs. > Sarkozy says burqas are 'not welcome' in France What about the UK? Burqa and Hair?... >> Sarkozy says burqas are 'not welcome' in France > > What about the UK? Burqa and Hair?... Muslim dress is the UK is more political than religious. Muslim women wear the veil for reasons to do with community solidarity more than anything much else. You'll see more women in burkas in Birmingham in England than you ever will in Bombay in India, despite Bombay having more Muslims than in the whole of the UK despite Muslims being somewhat more discriminated against in India than in the UK. Wearing the veil in the UK has become a political act. It should die out as the community becomes integrated into British life in much the same way that Jewish women wearing wigs died out. SignatureWilliam Black Have you ever stood near an Arabic Women (here in the good 'ol U S of A, not in some Arabic country) who was/is wearing a burqa's? THEY STINK!!!! The smell is nauseating!!!! I don't know how may yards of cloth one of those thing is made out of, but it must be a bunch. To get one of those things clean must be a very major task that the Arabic Women forgo for what ever reason (probably the cost of cleaning it). It's evident that Arabic clothing was designed for a climate where the relative humidity is never more than 10 or 20% and where clothing remain dry because any perspiration immediately evaporates. Thus cloth doesn't become saturated with sweat and body odor doesn't start to saturate the fabric. When an Arabic Woman comes here, and unless they live in Arizona, in parts of New Mexico or in Southern California inland from the coast, it's a sure bet that they reside in an area where there are very, very few days when the humidity is less than 40% on average. Sweat builds up and cloth becomes saturated with sweat. Unless the cloth is washed very, very often, it starts to smell. And smell they do. Signaturemeport > Sarkozy Is Right Too... > [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > Jihadist Terrorists and Homicide Bombers -- so that's another good reason > for prohibiting them. |
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