All language-speakers of Bharatam share same mtDNA pool
Forwarded message from S. Kalyanaraman
[ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007
All language-speakers of Bharatam share same mtDNA pool
Indo-European- and Dravidian-speaking populations of India
share same mtDNA pool: Chaubey et al.
I would extend the arguments provided by Chaubey et al. to
all language-speakers of Bharatam read with another study
which finds genetic links among so-called dravidian and so-
called austro-asiatic language speakers.
In any case, the Aryan Invasion/Migration/ Trickle-in/
Tourist Theories are mythology and only based on Biblical
Creationism underscored by eurocentric biases and hence,
unfalsifiable. The significant contribution from the
scientists in Estonia puts the final nail on the Aryan
question which should now become an academic indological
relic. Will the indologists accept science? It appears that
scientists like those from Estonia, will confirm our
ancient history and not the ageing, irrelevant band of
indologists. Congratulations to Chaubey, Mait Metspalu,
Richard Willems, Toomas Kivisild.
S. Kalyanaraman
Reply to Winters
Dear Sir,
The origins of Dravidian speaking populations of South Asia
have been a matter of scientific debate over many decades.
In our recent review on the genetic affinities of Indian
tribal and caste populations, (1) we concluded that both
Indo-European- and Dravidian-speaking populations of India
share largely the same pool of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA)
lineages that has evolved in situ in South Asia since the
Out-of-Africa migration of anatomically modern humans (AMH)
some 50-70 KYA. Dr. Clyde Winters in his
correspondence(2) to our paper disagrees with this view and
argues instead that there are linguistic, archaeological as
well as genetic evidences for a relatively recent African
origin of Dravidian populations. For a recent discussion on
the origin of Dravidian languages, the reader is referred
to a monograph by B. Krishnamurti. (3) MtDNA-based genetic
arguments provided by Dr. Winters in favor of gene flow
from Africa to Dravidian-speaking Indians are, however,
entirely erroneous. The author has been, unfortunately,
confused by overlooking changes in mtDNA haplogroup (hg)
nomenclature. Namely hg, M1 in Kivisild et al. (4) has been
later changed to hg M3, in order to avoid parallel
nomenclatures.(5) Furthermore, a recent dedicated paper on
phylogeography of mtDNA hg M1 (6) as well as an extensive
comparative mapping of autosomal genetic markers among many
Indian populations relative to global populations
elsewhere, including Africans, (7) do not provide any clues
for a putative recent gene flow, from Africa, to Dravidian-
speaking populations in South Asia.
References
1. Chaubey G, Metspalu M, Kivisild T, Villems, R. 2007.
Peopling of South Asia: investigating the caste-tribe
continuum in India. Bioessays 29:91-100.
2. Winters C. 2007. BioEssays 29:497-498.
3. Krishnamurti B. 2003. The Dravidian Languages 1-574:
Cambridge University Press
4. Kivisild T, Kaldma K, Metspalu M, Parik J, Papiha S,
Villems R. 1999. The place of the Indian mtDNA variants in
the global network of maternal lineages and the peopling of
the Old World. In Deka R, Papiha SS. Eds Genomic Diversity
Kluwer Academic/Plenum Publishers New York p 135-152.
5. Quintana-Murci L, Semino O, Bandelt H-J., Passarino G,
McElreavey K,Santachiara- Benerecetti AS. 1999. Genetic
evidence of an early exit of Homo sapiens sapiens from
Africa through eastern Africa. Nat Genet 23:437-441.
6. Olivieri A, Achilli A, Pala M, Battaglia V, Fornarino S.
et al. 2006. The mtDNA legacy of the Levantine early Upper
Palaeolithic in Africa. Science 314:1767-1770.
7. Rosenberg NA, Mahajan S, Gonzalez-Quevedo C, Blum MGB,
Nino- Rosales L. et al. 2007. Low Levels of Genetic
Divergence across
Geographically and Linguistically Diverse Populations from
India. PLoS Genet 2:e215.
Gyaneshwer Chaubey* Mait Metspalu Richard Villems
Department of Evolutionary Biology Institute of Molecular
and Cell Biology University of Tartu and Estonian Biocentre
Tartu, Estonia Toomas Kivisild
Leverhulme Centre of Human Evolutionary Studies The Henry
Wellcome Building
University of Cambridge Fitzwilliam Street Cambridge . UK
CB21QH DOI 10.1002/bies. 20574
Published online in Wiley InterScience
( www.interscience.wiley.com ). *Correspondence to:
Gyaneshwer Chaubey, Department of Evolutionary Biology,
Institute of Molecular and Cell Biology, University of
Tartu and Estonian Biocentre, Tartu, Estonia. E-mail:
gyanc@ebc.ee
BioEssays 29:499, _ 2007 Wiley Periodicals, Inc. BioEssays
29.5 499
Did the Dravidian speakers originate in Africa?*
Dear Sir,
Chaubey et al. ''Peopling of South Asia'', argue that most
Indians are autochthonous and originated shortly after the
African migration to India 50-60,000 ybp, given the
diversity of M haplogroups in India. Molecular,
archaeological, linguistic and osteological studies of
Dravidian-speaking people, however, suggest a more-recent
origin for people speaking these languages. According to
Sergent, (1) the Dravidian populations are not
autochthonous to India. Using osteological data,
researchers have made it clear that the Dravidian speakers
of South India and the Indus valley were primarily related
to the ancient Capsian population, which originated in
Africa. (2-9) Lahovary (5) and Sastri(6) maintains that
this population was unified over an extensive zone from
Africa, to South India. Some researchers maintain that the
Capsian civilization originated in East Africa. (5,10)
Researchers have proven that the Dravidians are related to
the C-group of Nubia, given the fact that both groups used
(1) a common black-and-red ware (BRW), (6) (2) a common
burial complex incorporating megaliths and circular rock
enclosures (5,6) and (3) a common type of rock-cut
sepulcher. (5) The BRW industry diffused from Nubia, across
West Asia into Rajastan, and thence to East Central and
South India. (11) Singh made it clear that he believes that
the BRW radiated from Nubia through Mesopotamia and Iran
southward into India.(12) Many linguists claim that the
Dravidian languages are genetically related to the Niger-
Congo group especially languages spoken today in the Niger
Valley and Senegambia region. (5,13-21) The Niger-Congo
speakers originated in Nubia. Winters has reconstructed the
Paleo-African- Dravidian terms for the hoe, millet, cattle,
sheep and goats. (5,18-24) R. Balakrishnan claims that
Onomastics indicate an African ''root'' for the Dravidian-
speaking tribes. (25) He presents data that the names for
rivers and hills in Koraput, for example, are identical to
the names for rivers and hills in Africa. (25) The
diversity of M HGs in India has led many researchers
besides Chaubeyet al. to suggest that theMclades have an
insitu origin. (26,27) These researchers speculate that,
although L3 originated in Africa, the M1HG is only found in
Ethiopia and Egypt and may be the result of a back
migration to Africa from India.(26,27) The M lineages are
not found only in East Africa. Rosa et al. found a low
frequency of the M1 HG among West Africans who speak the
Niger-Congo languages, such as the Balanta-Djola. (28)
Gonzalez et al. found N, M and M1 HGs among Niger-Congo
speakers living in Cameroon, Senegambia and Guinea Bissau.
(29) Gonder et al. has also found N, M and M1 in Tanzania.
(30) The molecular data make it clear that haplogroups M
and M1 are spread across Africa from East to West, not just
Ethiopia. (28-30,32) Anna Oliviera et al. argue that M1
must have originated in West Asia, because none of the
Asian M haplogroups harbor any distinguishing East African
root mutations. (30) They claim that the presence of any
East African M1 root mutations in Asian-specific clades
suggest a recent arrival of M1; and that the absence of M1
root mutations among Eurasian sister clades indicate a back
migration into East Africa of HG M1. (30) Oliviera et al.
claim that East African M1 root mutations are absent in
Eurasian M sister clades is not supported by the evidence.
(36) For example, Gondar et al. make it clear that the
Tanzanian M1 haplogroup cluster with people from Oceania.
In addition, Roychoudhury et al. noted nucleolides shared
by East African M1, and Indian M haplogroups include HG M4
at 16311; HG M5 at 16,129; and HG M34 at 16,249. It is also
not true that HGM1 is absent in India. Kivisild et al.
noted that 26 of the subjects in his study belonged to the
M1 haplogroup. (31) In this study, it was discovered that
subcluster M1 was found mainly in Kerala and Karnataka.
(31) Kivisild et al. found 5 major haplogroup M subclusters
in India: M1, M2, M3, M4, and M5.(31) Kivisild et al. make
it clear that each IndianMlineage has its own unique star
features. (31) A cursory examination of Kivisild et al.'s
Fig. 3, makes it clear that they found different
transitions at nps for Indian haplogroups. (31) Indian M
subclusters have mutations common to the East African M1
HG. (33,35) In Fig. 3, Kivisild et al. identify transitions
for Indian M1 at 16,311,16,129 and 16,189. (31) Other
Indian nodes that agree with East African M1, according to
Fig. 3, include: HG M5a 16,311, HG M5 16,189, and HG M2a
16,189. (31) An African genesis for India's Mhaplo groups
would explain the variant nucleolides East African M1
shares with Indian haplogroups: HG M4 at 16311, 16129 with
HG M5 and 16249 with HG M34/. (31,33) This is interesting
given Quintain-Murci et al.'s claim that the East African
HG M1 HVS-I motif is characterized by four transitions at
nt 16,129,16,189, 16249 and 16,311.(32) Researchers have
made it clear that M1 and the M macrohaplogroup originated
from an African background characterized by the ancestral
state 10873C. (32,34,35) The presence of shared root
mutations between East African M1, and Oceanic and Indian M
haplogroups, (30,33,35) may indicate a recent arrival of
Eurasian M clades from Africa. A Proto-Dravidian migration
event from Africa would explain the East African HVS-I
signature motifs in the Indian
M haplogroup samples.(30,33,35) The geographical range of
Indian M haplogroups is explained by the coalescent theory,
i.e. the small Proto-Dravidian population that settled the
Indus Valley expanded and spread over the subcontinent from
Pakistan in the North to South India. The Dravidian
speakers are probably not autochthonous to India as claimed
by Chaubeyet al. It is clear that the Dravidians and
Africans speak genetically related languages, (5,13-21) and
share anthropological (2-9) and archaeological (5,6,11,12)
features that unite both groups. The presence of M1 in
India,(31) and the absence of Indian-specific clades in
Africa, indicates that IndianMsubclusters probably
developed in India, after the migration of proto- Dravidian
speakers from the Indus Valley down into South India. This
path for Dravidian migration may be marked by the spread of
(1) shared toponyms, (21,25) (2) genetically related
languages,(5,13-21) (3) skeletal remains,( 2-9) and (4)
red-and-black pottery.(5,6,11,12)
References
1. Sergent B. 1992. Gene'se de L'Inde. Paris: Payot.
2. Gates RR. 1961. Early Mediterranean traits in the
leptorhine elements in the Kurumbas and other tribes of S.
India. Mankind 1(4).
3. Guha GB. The Chalcolithic Races of India.
4. Guha GB. 1936-37. The racial affinities of the people of
India. Rendus du Congress Intl d'Anthrop et Etnogr,
Bruxelles.
5. Lahovary N. 1963. Dravidian Origins and the West,
Madras: Longman.
6. Sastri N. 1954. History of South India. Cumberledge,
Madras.
7. Shaffer R. 1954. Ethnography of ancient India.
Harrasowitz, Wiesbaden.
8. Wheeler M. 1959. Early India and Pakistan. Thames and
Hudson, London.
9. Winters CA. 1985. The Proto-Culture of the Dravidians,
Manding and Sumerians, Tamil Civilization 3:1-9.
10. Cole S. 1954. The Prehistory of East Africa. London:
Pelican.
11. Gururaja Rao BK. 1972. The Megalithic Culture in South
India. Mysore.
12. Singh HN. 1982. History and archaeology of Black-and
Red ware. Delhi.
13. Aravanan KP. 1976. ''Physical and cultural similarities
between Dravidians and Africans''. Journal of Tamil Studies
10:23-27.
14. Aravanan KP. 1979. Dravidians and Africans, Madras.
15. Aravanan KP. 1980. Notable negroid elements in
Dravidian India. J Tamil Studies 20-45.
16. Upadhyaya P, Upadhyaya SP. 1979. Les liens entre Kerala
et l'Afrique tels qu'ils resosortent des survivances
culturelles et inguistiques, Bulletin de L'IFAN, no.
1:100-132.
17. Upadhyaya P, Upadhyaya SP. 1977. Affinites ethno-
linguistiques entre Dravidiens et les Negro-Africain,
Bull.de L'IFAN, No.1:127-157.
18. Winters CA. 1981a. ''The Unity of African and Indian
Agriculture' '. J African Civilization 3:103-110.
19. Winters CA. 1980. ''The genetic unity of Dravidian and
African languages and culture'', Proc First Interntl Symp
on Asian Studies (PIISAS) 1979, Hong Kong: Asian Research
Service.
20. Winters CA. 1981b. ''Are Dravidians of African
Origin'', P. Second ISAS, 1980, (Hong Kong: Asian Research
Service):789- 807.
21. Winters CA. 1986. ''The Dravidian Origin of the
Mountain and Water Toponyms in central Asia''. J Central
Asia 9, 2:144-148.
22. Winters CA. 1999a. ProtoDravidian terms for cattle.
Interntl J Dravidian Linguistics 28:91-98.
23. Winters CA. 1999b. Proto-Dravidian terms for sheep and
goats. PILC J Dravidian Studies 9:183-187.
24. Winters CA. 2000. Proto-Dravidian agricultural terms.
Interntl J Dravidian Linguistics 30:23-28.
25. Balakrishnan R. 2005. African roots of the Dravidian-
speaking Tribes: A case in Onomastics, Interntl J Dravidian
Linguistics 34:153-202.
26. Metspalu M, Kivisild T, Metspalu E, Parik J, Hudjashov
G, et al. 2004. Most of the extant mtDNA boundaries in
South and Southwest Asia were likely shaped during the
initial settlement of Eurasia by anatomically modern
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http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2156/5/26
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28. Rosa A, Brehm A, Kivisild T, Metspalu E, Villems R.
2004. MtDNA Profile of West Africa Guineans: Towards a
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McElreavey K, Santachiara- Benerecetti AS. 1999. Genetic
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Africa through eastern Africa. Nat Genet 23:437-441 [PubMed
Abstract] [Publisher Full Text]
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H, et al. 2001. Genomic structures and population histories
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VK. 2005 Phylogeny and antiquity of M haplogroup inferred
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36. Olivieri A, Achilli A, Pala M, Battaglia V, Fornarino
S, et al. 2006. The mtDNA legacy of the Levantine early
Upper Palaeolithic in Africa.
Science 314:1767-1770.
Clyde Winters Governors State University, 1 University
Park, University Park, Illinois 60466 E-mail: c-
winters@govst. edu
DOI 10.1002/bies. 20565 Published online in Wiley
InterScience ( www.interscience.wiley.com ). BioEssays
29:497-498, _ 2007 Wiley Periodicals, Inc. BioEssays 29.5
497-498
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dravidian_languages
End of forwarded message from S. Kalyanaraman
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Julio Silva - 24 Apr 2007 17:00 GMT
Very interesting indeed, however there are truths with a bit of lies,
and there are lies with a bit of truths. open your eyes please,
document yourself, dont jump very fast to conclusion A or B.
Principle number one: Dont Believe! investigate yourself, do your own
homework.
"It appears that scientists like those from Estonia, will confirm our
ancient history and not the ageing, irrelevant band of indologists.",
"It appears...".
My best regards to you all.
Swásthya,
Júlio Silva
> All language-speakers of Bharatam share same mtDNA pool
>
[quoted text clipped - 438 lines]
> your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
> copyright owner.
M. Ranjit Mathews - 26 Apr 2007 07:55 GMT
> "It appears that scientists like those from Estonia, will confirm our
> ancient history and not the ageing, irrelevant band of indologists.",
> "It appears...".
What Indologists? Are there any Indologists in the Genographic
project?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/04/0413_050413_genographic.html
M. Ranjit Mathews - 25 Apr 2007 15:29 GMT
On Apr 24, 8:11 am, use...@mantra.comY4h4Ai and/or www.mantra.com/jai
> All language-speakers of Bharatam share same mtDNA pool
> Forwarded message from S. Kalyanaraman
> [ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007
> All language-speakers of Bharatam share same mtDNA pool
That tells us that they share the same maternal ancestors. Do they
share the same paternal ancestors too?