 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
History Forum / General / General Topics / May 2007The "Mother Nature" Divinity in America
The subject of this thread is "mother nature" as a divinity in America. It's not the only sin or even the worst sin that America is currently guilty of doing. Without accepting Christ, most are dead in sin, anyway, but many of those that have accepted Christ, already, are guilty of Babylonian worship of many gods in addition to Jehovah. The worship of "mother nature" goes back historically to animism and African and native American religious beliefs. It was believed one must please "nature" in order to get good weather. However, it is pantheism that Jehovah banned to do so. Just this morning, I watched THREE separate news casts that referred to what "mother nature" is doing out there. By doing so, they are admitting to the real power at work in their lives, Satan. Satan is called "prince of the power of the air" in Scripture, and storms were sent by the devil against both Jesus' own boat and that of the Apostle Paul in Acts. The devil, after being cast out of heaven, seeks the worship of man, which we see in the temptations on Christ in which Satan tried to get Jesus to bow down to him. It should not surprise us that he would use weather as a means to get worship. These newscasts prove the devil is getting the worship he desires by willing human servants. A world that denies the KINGDOM of God should not expect the KING of that Kingdom to use his resources to protect them from their own king, the devil, whether that be from demonic storms or illness or debt. Ken Clifton christiansuperhero.com f.ck off, god boy. > The subject of this thread is "mother nature" as a divinity in > America. It's not the only sin or even the worst sin that America is [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Ken Clifton > christiansuperhero.com Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote : > The worship of "mother nature" goes back historically to animism and > African and native American religious beliefs. Why only African and Native American? What's wrong with early European? Australasian and Polynesian? Asian? The worship of nature predated monotheism all around the world. > However, it is pantheism that Jehovah banned to do so. Since I don't believe in Jehovah, Jehovah's opinion about my beliefs are of no relevance. > A world that denies the KINGDOM of God should not expect the KING of > that Kingdom to[...] ... do anything. And I don't expect it, because I don't believe in him.  SignatureVigyazat >Just this morning, I watched THREE separate news casts that referred >to what "mother nature" is doing out there. It is called "personification". It isn't religion. By your "logic", America worships the Greek goddess Libertas whose statue stands in New York harbor, and worships the Roman and Germanic gods because we've named the days of the week and some months of the year after them. We refer to liberty and the days of the week much more often than we refer to "mother nature". >By doing so, they are >admitting to the real power at work in their lives, Satan. Satan has nothing to do with it. He does have something to do with your constant lying about reality and the motives of others. lojbab > The subject of this thread is "mother nature" as a divinity in > America. It's not the only sin or even the worst sin that America is > currently guilty of doing. Without accepting Christ, most are dead in > sin, anyway, but many of those that have accepted Christ, already, are > guilty of Babylonian worship of many gods in addition to Jehovah. > The worship of "mother nature" goes back historically to animism and > African and native American religious beliefs. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Just this morning, I watched THREE separate news casts that referred > to what "mother nature" is doing out there. > By doing so, they are > admitting to the real power at work in their lives, Satan. Satan is > called "prince of the power of the air" in Scripture, and storms were > sent by the devil against both Jesus' own boat and that of the Apostle > Paul in Acts. So, Satan therefore deserves praise -- even worship -- for cooling off- shore evening breezes, for the trade winds which drove world commerce for centuries, for the prevailing winds which prevent the continents from being total deserts -- not to mention Hadley Cells and Ferrel Cells and all the other aspects of global circulation which make the temperate regions temperate -- indeed, at all habitable -- instead of eternal battlegrounds between fire and ice? -- cary > The subject of this thread is "mother nature" as a divinity in > America. It's not the only sin or even the worst sin that America is [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Just this morning, I watched THREE separate news casts that referred > to what "mother nature" is doing out there. Tell us: do you also belive that people literally believe in Lady Luck, Jack Frost, Old Man Winter, Father Time, Old Man River, and Baby New Year? Hint: IT'S A FIGURE OF SPEECH. -- cary >> The subject of this thread is "mother nature" as a divinity in >> America. It's not the only sin or even the worst sin that America is [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Hint: IT'S A FIGURE OF SPEECH. Uh, well . . . No. Not really (at all). I thought you realized that "NJ" doesn't stand for "New Jersey' but for "Lilith". Think "circumcision". Unfortunately, Lilith tends to think of circumcision only after her 37th frozen daiquiri. And only performs it after her 60th (notice the importance of the "23"). Be afraid; be very afraid. ++ gray > -- cary > The subject of this thread is "mother nature" as a divinity in > America. It's not the only sin or even the worst sin that America is [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > that Kingdom to use his resources to protect them from their own king, > the devil, whether that be from demonic storms or illness or debt. It should be astonishing that a grown man with a good vocabulary, such as Ken, would be so willing to expose the fact that he doesn't understand what a figure of speech is. But it isn't. The fact is that many (not all) American right-wing fundamentalists are such fierce, unretenent literalists causes them to assume that everyone else is a literalist too. So - just for example - when a friend's car stalls out on the way to an important job interview, and the firend says, "My car hates me!", the lietarlist assumes that the friend really thinks that the car is a PERSON that HATES her. At which point the literalist is likely to say: "Friend, your car is not a person. But SATAN is a person, and Satan hates you. Therefore Satan probably made your car stall." Well, maybe they don't say it about cars. But they say it about lots of other things, and it's just as silly. So when a news commentator (probably a Christian, as most are, although probably also not nearly literalist enough for Ken) says, "Mother Nature is really giving Boston-to-New York traffic a really hard time today," a lieralist might say something like: "You believe in Mother Nature? You WORSHIP the pagan goddess Mother Nature? No wonder the world is in such bad shape, and the media are so liberal! In matter of fact, it's SATAN that's causing the bad weather. And no wonder, given that Massachusetts and New York are both blue states!" "Um, no," says the commentator, "I was using a figure of speech." But this simply does not penetrate. As for: > A world that denies the KINGDOM of God should not expect the KING of > that Kingdom to use his resources to protect them from their own king, > the devil, whether that be from demonic storms or illness or debt. Ken, YOU do not deny the Kingdom of God, and you reject the devil. And presumably you know many people who share your faith. Does God protect all of THEM from storms, illness, or death? Do the people in your church have a lower bankruptcy rate than people in a nearby synagogue or Buddhist temple? When hurricanes struck New Orleans, was it your impression - from reading the news - that the more pious parts of the city were spared, while the more decadent were destroyed? > > The subject of this thread is "mother nature" as a divinity in > > America. It's not the only sin or even the worst sin that America is [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > it your impression - from reading the news - that the more pious parts > of the city were spared, while the more decadent were destroyed? Indeed, there were many miracle stories of protection from Christians in that region that were trusting Him, but I'm sure you just ignored them...since they didn't fit your philosophy. Similarly, you probably dismissed the fact that a Bible preacher had declared a prophecy forcasting EXACTLY this event, months in advance, for the sin of the region...that God would allow the devil to do it. No change....no problem...whammo. Ken Clifton christiansuperhero.com Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> > > > The subject of this thread is "mother nature" as a divinity in > > > America. It's not the only sin or even the worst sin that America is [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > Indeed, there were many miracle stories of protection from Christians > in that region that were trusting Him, If god's any good at his job, NO Christian should have died in New Orleans -- well, OK, we'll except the Christians who, inexplicably, forgot to pray when their lives were in danger. I suspect there were few, if any, of those. It's Cosmic Stockholm Syndrome, Sacred Battered Spouse Syndrome: when He abuses you, you figure you somehow brought it on yourself, and when He fails to beat you, you're embarrassing in your gratitude. > but I'm sure you just ignored > them...since they didn't fit your philosophy. Similarly, you probably > dismissed the fact that a Bible preacher had declared a prophecy > forcasting EXACTLY this event, months in advance, for the sin of the > region...that God would allow the devil to do it. No change....no > problem...whammo. How kind of den of iniquity do you think Virgina Beach must have been such that when Pat Robertson prayed -- publically, and in Jesus' name, mind you -- to "command" Hurricane Isabel to "cease its forward motion to the north and turn and to go out to sea", Isabel homed in on Virginia Beach like a meercat on a mouse? -- cary > Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> > [quoted text clipped - 94 lines] > > -- cary Did you just ignore my last post on that in the other thread. Yes, Pat prayed and by the time Isabel reached Virginia Beach, it was no longer a hurricane (dropping from a Cat 5 to zero in almost no time). I have stats to prove it and posted them last time. That being said, God would've judged Sodom and Gomorrah even if Lot wouldn't have left. It's not His fault that no one heeded the warning He gave for New Orleans. Ken Clifton christiansuperhero.com > > Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> > [quoted text clipped - 99 lines] > longer a hurricane (dropping from a Cat 5 to zero in almost no time). > I have stats to prove it and posted them last time. Um no. It was Cat 1 when it made landfall and we had the winds of a Cat 3 for several hours before the eye made landfall. I know; I was there. I thought it was cool. > That being said, God would've judged Sodom and Gomorrah even if Lot > wouldn't have left. It's not His fault that no one heeded the warning > He gave for New Orleans. Whatever. I won't argue that with you because you refuse to see reality. John > Ken Clifton > christiansuperhero.com- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - > > > Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> > [quoted text clipped - 103 lines] > Cat 3 for several hours before the eye made landfall. I know; I was > there. I thought it was cool. By the time it reached the ministry it most certainly WASN'T a Cat 1, but even so do you think the sudden drop from Cat 5 was a coincidence? Ken Clifton christiansuperhero.com >> > Did you just ignore my last post on that in the other thread. Yes, >> > Pat prayed and by the time Isabel reached Virginia Beach, it was no [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >By the time it reached the ministry it most certainly WASN'T a Cat 1, But it was. You keep ignoring that fact, and now you are ignoring the testimony of someone who was there. "The ministry" is in Virginia Beach. Virginia Beach experienced Cat 3 winds. >but even so do you think the sudden drop from Cat 5 was a coincidence? It certainly wasn't due to Pat's prayer. We've had multiple examples of Cat 5 storms that weakened just offshore due to perfectly understandable meteorological phenomena. Katrina weakened as well, and may have been only Cat 3 when it hit N. O., but that was sufficient to destroy part of the city due to poor levee design and maintenance. lojbab > > > > Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> > [quoted text clipped - 106 lines] > By the time it reached the ministry it most certainly WASN'T a Cat 1, > but even so do you think the sudden drop from Cat 5 was a coincidence? By the time exactly what reached the ministry? The eye of the storm? The initial Cat 3 winds which we felt for five hours before the eye made landfall? Please. I lived further inland than the "ministry" and it was a Cat 1 when it reached us. Do you think "God" strengthened the storm after it passed dear ol' Pat? You do realize that the wind caused more damage than the storm surge. You obviously have NO understanding of weather and storm patterns. John > Ken Clifton > christiansuperhero.com- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - > > > > Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> > > [quoted text clipped - 106 lines] > By the time it reached the ministry it most certainly WASN'T a Cat 1, > but even so do you think the sudden drop from Cat 5 was a coincidence? ALL hurricanes lose strength once they make landfall: The reason, of course, is that their source of energy has been abruptly cut off. But since you aren't much for naturalistic explanations, I suppose you'll just have to regard this inevitable softening of destrucetive force as an expression of grace on the part of the Prince of the Powers of the Air. -- cary > In article <1179324626.262304.3...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> Wide Eyed in Wonder <writing...@yahoo.com> writes: > [quoted text clipped - 118 lines] > > -- cary I recognize that this hurricane was a cat 5 and could have come on land as a cat 2 or greater (as with Katrina and others). However, by the time it reached the ministry, it WAS a tropical storm only. Any "proof" you have to the contrary is a lie. Ken Clifton christiansuperhero.com >I recognize that this hurricane was a cat 5 and could have come on >land as a cat 2 or greater (as with Katrina and others). However, by >the time it reached the ministry, it WAS a tropical storm only. Any >"proof" you have to the contrary is a lie. Kenny lies yet again, disproved by his own source as well as by someone who was there. lojbab Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> > On May 16, 11:30 am, c...@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) wrote: > > In article <1179324626.262304.3...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> Wide Eyed in Wonder <writing...@yahoo.com> writes: [quoted text clipped - 132 lines] > the time it reached the ministry, it WAS a tropical storm only. Any > "proof" you have to the contrary is a lie. The proof I have is the numbers you provided for us. Care to show us how the subset I copied here does anything other than support exactly what I say? These numbers are the SOLE evidence you have offered to support your contention, and they turn out to do exactly the opposite. Got some other evidence? You know, material which would actually support, rather than rebut? But hey: for the sake of the more important question, let's pretend that it was a mere tropical storm -- a mere tropical storm which resulted in: Virginia toll: 33 dead, 1,224 homes and 77 businesses destroyed, 9,027 homes and 1,400 businesses damaged. (from the Roanoke Times) But that's OK right? It wasn't (you tell us) a hurricane any longer, so all of this death and destruction is no blemish on God's countenance, right? All that matters is the label given it by the National Weather Service, not the dead, the widowed, the financially ruined, or the homeless. Well, the label, and the little theological issue arising from the fact that a prominent man of God prayed in Jesus' name that the storm turn around and go back whence it came, whereupon the storm did exactly the opposite. In spite of that promise in Scripture to the contrary. -- cary > Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> > Well, the label, and the little theological issue > arising from the fact that a prominent man of God prayed > in Jesus' name that the storm turn around and go back > whence it came, whereupon the storm did exactly the opposite. > In spite of that promise in Scripture to the contrary. Off topic, but is Mr. Wiggly The Wonder Worm no-archiving his posts, because all I'm getting are responses to him, not his original posts, and I haven't killfiled him. Just thinking I would like to get to swing at the piñatas like you guys. > > Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> > > Well, the label, and the little theological issue [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > all I'm getting are responses to him, not his original posts, and I haven't > killfiled him. Um, no -- `JDay', on this same froup does that, but Ken Clifton does not. I'm not sure what the problem might be. Try reading from the group `alt.education', and see if that helps. -- cary > In article <134p1727snen...@corp.supernews.com> "Vosotros" <Vosot...@spam.com> writes: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > -- cary The problem is that Bob ... Buckeye, Carol, whatever he wants to be called... routinely takes my posts from one group and posts them in groups I didn't ask to be placed (like alt.atheism), assuming by doing so he can get people to read only one side of the discussion..his own. Ken Clifton christiansuperhero.com >The problem is that Bob ... Buckeye, Carol, whatever he wants to be >called... routinely takes my posts from one group and posts them in >groups I didn't ask to be placed (like alt.atheism), Liar. I have NEVER replied to your posts adding a newsgroup. NOT ONCE! lojbab > >The problem is that Bob ... Buckeye, Carol, whatever he wants to be > >called... routinely takes my posts from one group and posts them in [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > lojbab I have no idea who "Carol" might be, but if Ken is suggesting that you and Buckeye might be the same person, I am flabbergasted. Your posting styles could hardly be more dissimilar. -- cary > In article <o7ar439pf5gbfrtptu95k4hfoc3b4sj...@4ax.com> Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> writes: > > >The problem is that Bob ... Buckeye, Carol, whatever he wants to be [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > -- cary They are all the same individual. Buckeye doesn't post replies to his own threads often. However, Bob replies to almost all of them. Bob doesn't post ANYTHING original in the groups for years, but he replies to other posts (mostly Buckeye's posts). Bob NEVER replies to Buckeye directly, but he replies in defense of Buckeye to other repliers. They share the same mind and bitter streak. Others have pointed out the similarity. Finally, there is many references to Carol Lee Smith living with Bob (supposedly) and another poster (that follows the same pattern as Bob with Buckeye) is called Bob and Carole, which others have already pointed out is just another name for Bob. They are all the same person. Ken Clifton christiansuperhero.com Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> > > In article <o7ar439pf5gbfrtptu95k4hfoc3b4sj...@4ax.com> Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> writes: > > > >The problem is that Bob ... Buckeye, Carol, whatever he wants to be [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > They are all the same individual. Not a chance in Des Moines. Their styles are about alike as e e cummings and Kirkegaard. With your interest in writing, I'd think this would be blazingly obvious. > Buckeye doesn't post replies to his > own threads often. However, Bob replies to almost all of them. Does he? I don't read many of the Ohio boy's threads, so I'll take your word for that. > Bob doesn't post ANYTHING original in the groups for years, but he replies > to other posts (mostly Buckeye's posts). Bob NEVER replies to Buckeye > directly, but he replies in defense of Buckeye to other repliers. Sort of sounds like me, actually. Think all four (or however many) of us are the same person? > They share the same mind and bitter streak. I never see "bitter" from Bob. Joy-of-combat kind of thingie, but "bitter"? I don't think so. > Others have pointed out > the similarity. Finally, there is many references to Carol Lee Smith Oh THAT Carol. OK. Haven't seen her in months, but then I don't read too many of the threads. > living with Bob (supposedly) and another poster (that follows the same > pattern as Bob with Buckeye) is called Bob and Carole, Are you INSANE? Sweet Bast on a cushion. Bob&Carole is NOTHING like any of the above. Bob&Carole -- you ARE talking about the boy obsessed with gays and "pedophies, right? -- Bob&Carole is about three sigmas down the IQ curve from any of the posters you mention. Bovb&Carole is the guy at the end of the bar who raises his head out of a pool of beer once in a while to mutter "fuggin-A right, fuckin mufucka", then slumps back. Well, except that B&C DOES have enough energy to cross-post to several thousand groups. And I mean taht "several thousand" literally. > which others > have already pointed out is just another name for Bob. They are all > the same person. Only if Marilyn Monroe was actually Jimmy Hoffa in drag. -- cary >They are all the same individual. Buckeye doesn't post replies to his >own threads often. However, Bob replies to almost all of them. Bob replies to threads in the education newsgroups, no matter who posts them, and doesn't limit his subjects to separation of church and state issues, as you should well know, Mr "Isabel wasn't a hurricane when it hit" and Mr "Da Vinci Code won't be a successful movie" >Bob doesn't post ANYTHING original in the groups for years, but he replies >to other posts (mostly Buckeye's posts). Almost all of what I post is original. I write it all myself, usually within a short time of when I post it. If you mean that I don't start new threads, you are correct. Why bother, since there are plenty more than enough? But that has nothing to do with originality of my writing. > Bob NEVER replies to Buckeye directly, Wrong. But Buckeye hasn't been posting much to the education newsgroups in the last several months, so I haven't had much to reply to. >but he replies in defense of Buckeye to other repliers. Buckeye needs no defense. >They share the same mind Not hardly. >and bitter streak. Bitter? Not me. Cynical, maybe. >Others have pointed out the similarity. None that I've noticed. >Finally, there is many references to Carol Lee Smith living with Bob (supposedly) What? Please provide one such cite to that effect. My wife of almost 20 years, whose name is Nora and not Carol, would certainly object to another woman living with me. >and another poster (that follows the same >pattern as Bob with Buckeye) is called Bob and Carole, "Bob and Carole" is the handle for a Usenet spammer who crossposts to numerous groups talking about the Foley homosexual scandal, and doing all sorts of gay bashing. I have no history of gay bashing, and am in favor of homosexuals being permitted to marry. >which others >have already pointed out is just another name for Bob. They are all >the same person. You are truly insane. lojbab > >They are all the same individual. Buckeye doesn't post replies to his > >own threads often. However, Bob replies to almost all of them. [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > > lojbab Ken, you may have noticed, frequently Sees Connections that evade the rest of us. -- cary > In article <0ulu431ro3oglu38pdje3abdlbfrkh9...@4ax.com> Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> writes: > > >They are all the same individual. Buckeye doesn't post replies to his [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > > -- cary Cary, so you are going to go along with Bob's claim that Buckeye doesn't post much to education groups? Are you honest? Shall I post the stats? Ken Clifton christiansuperhero.com > > In article <0ulu431ro3oglu38pdje3abdlbfrkh9...@4ax.com> Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> writes: > > > >They are all the same individual. Buckeye doesn't post replies to his [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > doesn't post much to education groups? Are you honest? Shall I post > the stats? Since that is just about as unrelated to what I was saying as anything could possibly be, you go ahead and do anything you like. -- cary >Cary, so you are going to go along with Bob's claim that Buckeye >doesn't post much to education groups? Are you honest? Shall I post >the stats? It isn't necessary. I've just checked on Google. It seems that he does post to the education groups. But since my newsserver is one that filters out all posts that are sent to more than 5 groups, I am seeing only a very few of them. Indeed, as I have already noted, I have been seeing only your replies to him, and not his original posts. If I actually cared to read Buckeye's stuff, I would thank you for making it available to me, since at least his stuff is well-researched and therefore moderately educational. But frankly I consider you both a plague on the newsgroups, along with all other habitual crossposters. The frequency of Buckeye's postings was of course was not my point, and it wasn't what Cary was agreeing with. You insanely believe that people who think you are an idiot and tell you so to your face are all one person. There is in fact rather slim connections between buckeye and me, and anyone who wasn't as self-centered and paranoid as you are would never have come up with such a silly idea as to think we are the same person. (And Carol Smith too, nonetheless. ROFLMAO!). As I said before, I don't defend Buckeye - he needs no defense. I attacks YOU, because you need to be attacked, as the virulent Satan-inspired liar, scumbag, and idiot, that you are. lojbab > In article <o7ar439pf5gbfrtptu95k4hfoc3b4sj...@4ax.com> Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> writes: > > >The problem is that Bob ... Buckeye, Carol, whatever he wants to be [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > -- cary P.S. Cary, in the other thread I posted official government information proving no hurricane force winds hit Virginia Beach with the hurricane, after Pat issued the prayer call. I await your admission of error. Ken Clifton christiansuperhero.com > Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> > [quoted text clipped - 166 lines] > > -- cary http://www.erh.noaa.gov/er/akq/wx_events/hur/isabel_2003.htm This site says the highest sustained winds in Virginia ALL fall BELOW the required speeds for a hurricane. Thus, it did NO hurricane damage to Virginia Beach...thus, by the time it hit Virginia Beach, IT WAS NOT A HURRICANE. I await your admission of error. Also, you have yet to respond the the fact it went from a Cat 5 to a Cat 1 (not even a Cat 1) AFTER the prayer request by Pat. Ken Clifton christiansuperhero.com > > Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> > [quoted text clipped - 173 lines] > to Virginia Beach...thus, by the time it hit Virginia Beach, IT WAS > NOT A HURRICANE. Holy crap--what are you smokin'? Did you even look at the link? http://www.blackcollegewire.org/news/031006_isabel-hampton/printable/ Hampton is further north and slightly west VB and still suffered major damage. I had friends in the upper part of Newport News who were without power for 2 weeks. http://www.vims.edu/newsmedia/press_release/isabel.html Sustained wind speed does not do the most damage. http://www.vims.edu/physical/research/isabel/ Read the entire paper but especiallly the last paragraph where it talks about it being a Cat 1 at landfall. And then remember that Isabel was huge and we felt the sustained Cat 2 winds for more than 6 hours BEFORE it made landfall. Do you think that only when a storm makes landfall you feel the brunt of it's force? It's actually a relief when it makes landfall since then you know you only have about an hour left before you can go begin the clean-up. Still, I thought the storm was cool. Live through a Hurricane and then tell me that what Pat Robertson made a difference. He's a complete fool. Maybe he didn't pray hard enough because he was too busy thinking about which world leader we should assassinate. John > I await your admission of error. Also, you have yet to respond the > the fact it went from a Cat 5 to a Cat 1 (not even a Cat 1) AFTER the > prayer request by Pat. > > Ken Clifton > christiansuperhero.com > > > Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> > [quoted text clipped - 204 lines] > > Ken Clifton > > christiansuperhero.com The chart on that page shows the highest sustained winds for every location there, and NONE exceeded hurricane force requirements. Ken Clifton christiansuperhero.com Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> > > Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> {...} > > > I recognize that this hurricane was a cat 5 and could have come on > > > land as a cat 2 or greater (as with Katrina and others). However, by [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > http://www.erh.noaa.gov/er/akq/wx_events/hur/isabel_2003.htm Well, lessee what we got here... THE WIND FIELD OF ISABEL EXPANDED WELL NORTHWARD AS IT TRACKED THROUGH NORTH CAROLINA AND VIRGINIA...DUE TO THE PRESSURE GRADIENT BETWEEN ISABEL AND THE STRONG HIGH PRESSURE TO THE NORTH. SUSTAINED TROPICAL STORM FORCE WINDS...WITH FREQUENT WIND GUSTS APPROACHING AND EXCEEDING HURRICANE FORCE...WERE OBSERVED OVER AN UNUSUALLY EXTENSIVE AREA OF NORTH CAROLINA...VIRGINIA AND MARYLAND. Tropical storm force winds, sustained; hurricane force winds at times...so, what are the exact definitions of the hurricane categories? Ah, here's one: Winds 74-95 mph (64-82 kt or 119-153 km/hr). Storm surge generally 4-5 ft above normal. No real damage to building structures. Damage primarily to unanchored mobile homes, shrubbery, and trees. Some damage to poorly constructed signs. Also, some coastal road flooding and minor pier damage. OK, 74-95 miles per hour winds. Now, looking at the wind speed observations chart linked from the page you provide: http://www.erh.noaa.gov/er/akq/wx_events/hur/winds.htm we see speeds for eastern Virginia ranging from 70 to 90 miles per hour. Virginia Beach (SR58 X S%60) itself lies in the salmon-colored area, meaning that winds of 90 mph were observed in that region. 90 mph, by the information you provided. Sounds like a Category I to me. In fact, it sounds like the high end of Category I. Elsewhere: http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/2003isabel.shtml we read that: Isabel produced storm surges of 6-8 ft above normal tide levels near the point of landfall along the Atlantic coast of North Carolina. Farther north, storm surge values ranged from 4-6 ft along the Virginia coast... Storm surges of 4-6 feet above normal. Again, by the definition given above, a Category I hurricane. The remainder of the official definition, after wind speed and storm surge, suggests a Category I hurricane will produce only minor damage to flimsy structures. The Roanoke Times, on the other hand, reported: Virginia toll: 33 dead, 1,224 homes and 77 businesses destroyed, 9,027 homes and 1,400 businesses damaged. Sounds, actually, one hell of a lot worse than Category I hurricanes are supposed to cause. What do you think? > This site says the highest sustained winds in Virginia ALL fall BELOW > the required speeds for a hurricane. You should have poked about the site a bit more then. The wind speed map unambiguously says otherwise. > Thus, it did NO hurricane damage > to Virginia Beach...thus, by the time it hit Virginia Beach, IT WAS > NOT A HURRICANE. Sorry, but by what you have provided, it was. > I await your admission of error. I have no problem admitting mistakes -- groups.google on my name and the phrase "I stand corrected" if you don't believe that. This, however, was not one of them. Now. I shall be most interested to see if YOU will answer the question I have raised twice before (at least) reegarding the following: >Also, you have yet to respond the > the fact it went from a Cat 5 to a Cat 1 (not even a Cat 1) AFTER the > prayer request by Pat. Jesus: If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. Jesus: If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. Pat: In the name of Jesus, we reach out our hand in faith and we command that storm to cease its forward motion to the north and to turn and to go out into the sea. God? SORRY, BUT I CAN'T DO THAT, PAT. TELL YA WHAT: I'LL KNOCK IT DOWN TO A CAT I, THAT GOOD ENOUGH? BUT ALL THAT "MOTION TO THE NORTH" AND THAT "GO OUT TO SEA"? HEY, JUST NOT IN THE BOOKS THIS TIME AROUND. So, how do we view this? -- cary > Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> >> [quoted text clipped - 147 lines] > > So, how do we view this? Funny you should ask. GOD: Robertson, it's your turn to come on down! ROBERTSON: Turn aside thy deathbolt and take that sucker Falwell. GOD: Oh, okay; but the hell with both of you. Gray Shockley ---------------------------- All patients accepted for treatment at St. Jude are treated without regard to the family's ability to pay. http://www.stjude.org/aboutus > -- cary >> > but I'm sure you just ignored >> > them...since they didn't fit your philosophy. Similarly, you probably [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >longer a hurricane (dropping from a Cat 5 to zero in almost no time). >I have stats to prove it and posted them last time. And he looked at your stats and showed that it disproved your claim. >That being said, God would've judged Sodom and Gomorrah even if Lot >wouldn't have left. It's not His fault that no one heeded the warning >He gave for New Orleans. Wait a minute - are you claiming that God was responsible for what happened in New Orleans or was that Satan's work? You seem fundamentally unable to make up your mindlessness. If Satan did it, then God did not stop it, no matter how many people in N.O. may have prayed to Him. If you are asserting that God told people to leave N.O. because it was going to suffer a Sodom and Gomorrah type destruction, you'll have to show where that specific warning was given, and to whom, and explain why so many good Christians never got that warning. And you have yet to provide evidence that New Orleans was in the least bit more sinful than New York City, Las Vegas, or for that matter, your home town. (BTW, was that Kansas town that just got leveled by a tornado just as sinful as New Orleans - it was destroyed even more thoroughly? Did God warn all the Christians in advance before he Sodomized the town, and did anyone heed Him? Or was that an act of Satan and God chose to do nothing about it, nor even to warn the Christians what was about to whomp them?) lojbab > > Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> {...} > > How kind of den of iniquity do you think Virgina Beach must have been > > such that when Pat Robertson prayed -- publically, and in Jesus' name, > > mind you -- to "command" Hurricane Isabel to "cease its forward > > motion to the north and turn and to go out to sea", Isabel homed > > in on Virginia Beach like a meercat on a mouse? > Did you just ignore my last post on that in the other thread. Nope; I read that post after I made the above response. I do note, however, that you appear inexplicably to have overlooked my other response, the one in which I demonstrated that the very data you provided in fact actually proved that Isabel was still a hurricane as it swept into Virginia Beach. Not to mention your seeming reluctance to reply to my pointing out that ol' Pat's commanding the storm to turn about and go back out to sea -- a command invoking the name of Jesus -- didn't exactly....well, see for yourself: http://www.greatdreams.com/isabel-2003.htm > Yes Pat prayed and by the time Isabel reached Virginia Beach, it was no > longer a hurricane (dropping from a Cat 5 to zero in almost no time). > I have stats to prove it and posted them last time. Actually you had stats to disprove it, and you did indeed post those.. I further gently point out that you have yet to reply to the poster who was there, and desribes Isabel making landfall as a Category 3, > That being said, God would've judged Sodom and Gomorrah even if Lot > wouldn't have left. Your god sounds like the god of Fred Phelps -- doesn't matter how many babies are killed or children are orphaned, as long as we can whack the sinful. > It's not His fault that no one heeded the warning He gave for New Orleans. Why don't you post the details of this warning -- and I mean the original, not your memories of what you heard -- and we'll discuss it. -- cry > > > The subject of this thread is "mother nature" as a divinity in > > > America. It's not the only sin or even the worst sin that America is [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > in that region that were trusting Him, but I'm sure you just ignored > them...since they didn't fit your philosophy. I do not ignore things that do not fit into my philosophy. I just note that, despite these "miracle stories" - which are interesting anecdotes - there does not seem to be any general trend of Christians avoiding bankruptcy, illness, or disaster at a higher rate than others (such as Jews or Buddhists). If you actually LOOK AT THE WORLD, you will see devout people who have accepted Jesus as their savior suffering from illness and misfortune, and evil people prospering. (As well as Christians prospering and evil men suffering, of course; it's spread around in all directions.) It would seem to me that you're ignroing this fact because it doesn't fit your philosophy. But maybe you just don't bother to look at the world. > Similarly, you probably > dismissed the fact that a Bible preacher had declared a prophecy > forcasting EXACTLY this event, months in advance, for the sin of the > region...that God would allow the devil to do it. No change....no > problem...whammo. "A Bible preacher?" There are many, many Bible preachers making predictions every day of the week. Most are incorrect but every now and then one hits the nail on the head. In the current day, at least, they don't seem to be doing much better than random. In the meantime, the most "decadent" section of New Orleans survived with a minimum of damage, while many devout Christians died and many churches were destroyed. More facts for you to compare with your philosophy. > > > The subject of this thread is "mother nature" as a divinity in > > > America. It's not the only sin or even the worst sin that America is [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > in that region that were trusting Him, but I'm sure you just ignored > them...since they didn't fit your philosophy. And there were also "miracle" stories about pagans who prayed to Thor, Danu, the Goddess, and other Gods and Goddesses who were saved. Did your God save them to show he was omnipotent? Sure didn't work because I haven't heard of a lot of conversion going on down in NO. But then that probably doesn't "fit your philosophy." > Similarly, you probably > dismissed the fact that a Bible preacher had declared a prophecy > forcasting EXACTLY this event, months in advance, for the sin of the > region...that God would allow the devil to do it. No change....no > problem...whammo. Just like I ignored Pat Robertson when he "prayed away" all the hurricanes from Tidewater, VA. He, of course, couldn't "pray away" Isabel. John > Ken Clifton > christiansuperhero.com- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - On May 14, 2007, Jerrry Junior Clifton wrote: > The subject of this thread is "mother nature" as a divinity in > America. It's not the only sin or even the worst sin that America is > currently guilty of doing. Without accepting Christ, most are dead in > sin, anyway, but many of those that have accepted Christ, already, are > guilty of Babylonian worship of many gods in addition to Jehovah. You know, in all the Internet, if not the most sanctimonious turd stinking up the place, you sure are in contention. On your way lies death. "Eternity" is "this instant" and can be nothing other than "this instant". But you have no /time/ for eternity. I betcha the guy in the white corner and the guy in the red corner would dearly love to toss you in any other corner. In your case, the opposite of "blessed" is "tacky". No matter where you end up, there goes the neighborhood. Gray Shockley ----------------------- Vicksburg, MS US US Army (retired) > The worship of "mother nature" goes back historically to animism and > African and native American religious beliefs. It was believed one [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Ken Clifton > christiansuperhero.com > The subject of this thread is "mother nature" as a divinity in > America. > Just this morning, I watched THREE separate news casts that referred > to what "mother nature" is doing out there. By doing so, they are [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > newscasts prove the devil is getting the worship he desires by > willing human servants. You are too fanatical. Mother nature is not a person or a divinity in america. It's just a ephamism for 'the environment'. You like clean air and clean water for you and your family - yes? Or would you rather drink coliform water and breathe diesel grade particulant air? I am guessing; Probably not. PS: For evil deities try Molech.. now there's an active recruter. On Wed, 16 May 2007 11:50:48 -0700, lorad474 wrote: >> The subject of this thread is "mother nature" as a divinity in America. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > You are too fanatical. Cain't be too fanatical in the name of Jeeezus, son. > Mother nature is not a person or a divinity in america. It's just a > ephamism for 'the environment'. Nah... it's a euphemism for Gaia, the earth goddess: http://www.pantheon.org/articles/g/gaia.html "Gaia loves me, this I know for www.pantheon.org tells me so..." Charlie On May 16, 5:55 pm, Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil...@users.easynews.com> wrote: > On Wed, 16 May 2007 11:50:48 -0700, lorad474 wrote: > >> The subject of this thread is "mother nature" as a divinity in America. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > forwww.pantheon.orgtells me so..." > Charlie You obviously could use some more coliform water and diesel grade particulant air. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2009 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.