Merry Christmas: Is rejection Christianity a step forward?
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Carl Sagan's billions - 25 Dec 2007 04:20 GMT I struggled for a long time, in my younger years, trying to understand the basic doctrines, the core beliefs, the philosophies, the essence and contradictions in Old versus New Testament, the behavior of warrior Christian nations wreaking havoc in non-Christian colonies (and still conducting horrible wars on non-Christian people in Asia), Genesis, Noah, the many other stories in the Bible, etc..
Then slowly I came to understand several truths described below, which eventually enabled me to gradually throw off the yoke, the shackles and the blinders of a long childhood indoctrination in Christianity, and I WAS FREE ----- FOREVER:
1. All religions and gods are 'man' made, made and made up by humans, not necessarily to deceive but as a result of new ideas and concepts that evolved and were then accepted as the (new) truth, the (new) philosophy of life, the (new) gospel, the (new) 'true' religion.
2. The Christian concept and definition of a 'soul' is untenable. Why? Evolution is a fact but nowhere in the long line of evolution was the 'soul' (or something like the soul that makes us immortal) suddenly inserted in a certain species at a discrete point in time.
If I assume that the soul was suddenly inserted in a living being, e.g., 1 million years ago, we must then argue that his or her father and mother did not have a soul. We cannot.
This means: All living beings have a soul or no living beings have a soul. As I don't believe a worm has a soul, I must conclude that the concept of a soul in each human being can only be a manmade construct. A manmade construct because we have a need to believe that we (or at least our 'spirit' or our 'soul') are immortal and will exist forever.
We fear death, we fear being gone forever. We want to deny death, we need to believe we are immortal. And we can't avoid to fabricate a reason for our existence.
3. There is no heaven and hell. All religions are manmade, and the concepts of heaven and hell are manmade. They were created when social groups evolved culturally: To keep individual behavior in line and within boundaries - to be beneficial to the group or to its leaders. Heaven was a carrot, hell was the stick.
4. The Christian dogma of sin, with human beings having free choice to obey or disobey, is untenable, as 'sin', killing, fighting, etc., already existed millions of years before human beings came about.
That means in the long line of evolution there was never a discrete point where the 'first' human being suddenly had free choice to obey or disobey. That also means the dogma of Christ's death at the cross to atone for our sins is untenable. Human beings evolved and never (suddenly) had free choice to obey or dis-obey (=sin).
The manmade Christian God sacrificed his son to atone for all sins forever for all times. That brilliant idea of hope and redemption and forgiveness arose from much older pagan religions that had human sacrifices at their core. The ultimate sacrifice for redemption was to offer up your own son, as in the Abraham-Isaac story. That's why 'man' eventually came up with the idea that Christ - the Son - was sacrificed by the Father and died for the sins of all mankind.
As our species homo sapiens evolved over millions of years, there was never an Adam and Eve 6000 years ago. That means Eve disobeying God and eating from the fruit never happened. That means the 'fall' in the garden of Eden never happened. That also means a 'fall' e.g. a million years earlier never happened. That means the philosophy of Christ having to die for our original sin, for us disobeying God, has no basis in fact. Our ancestors millions of years ago did not have the intellectual capacity nor the choice to obey or disobey.
5. The Christian concept that you can only be saved by accepting Christ as your savior is untenable. As over 4.5 billion on earth are not Christians and may not even know about Jesus Christ, it is illogical to assume that God automatically condemns 4.5 billion out of 6.5 billion to hell = eternal suffering.
Also there are over 100-200 billion stars in our own galaxy, with a total of 100-200 billion other galaxies in the visible universe, containing billions of inhabited planets. It is illogical to assume that God sacrificed his son on billions of planets.
6. All religions are manmade, which explains the huge variety of religions. Any evolving human society develops beliefs about life and death, which then often morph into absolute beliefs and then finally into structured beliefs = religion.
That's why there are so many religions, so many spin-offs of existing religions, and why so many new spin-offs and denominations are created all the time, all over the world. There are always new thinkers with new ideas, creative thinkers who strongly reject the older ideas.
7. All religions and their spin-offs are manmade, and the concept of 'God' including the 'God' of Christianity, Islam and Judaism is man made.
As nowhere in the material world we see physical acts/actions by a 'God' on matter, there is no reason to assume that an 'immaterial' God like the Christian God (who controls, guards, acts on matter = interferes in our world) exists.
8. So we have to face the fact, with courage and logic, and conclude that: GOD IS ABSENT, IS DEAD OR DOES NOT EXIST.
As I find it illogical that if an all powerful God existed, he would decide to disappear from our material world = universe into some other universe, or even die, i.e., disappear from all possible universes, there is only one conclusion left:
There is no immaterial God applying material forces on or into our physical environment.
That means all physical and chemical occurrences can be explained (sooner or later) without having to introduce a supernatural and 'immaterial' being capable of and actively acting on matter. Therefore the conclusion is that (the Christian) God does not exist and was made up.
You can only exist if you are matter or tied to matter. You only exist if you can act upon matter. When tied to matter, 'one' can be observed, measured, etc., and thus be proven to exist.
Example: In the tsunami near Sumatra up to 100,000 innocent children were killed in just one hour (in total an estimated 220,000 died). 'God' did not do it. 'Satan' did not do it. Humans did not do it. The earth core is cooling, forcing huge plates to move, which occasionally rupture or fracture into earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, etc., which then can cause terrible natural catastrophes such as this tsunami. Nowhere did or does the 'hand of God' act anywhere. He did not cause it, he did not prevent it.
9. The mystery of matter and the most crucial question and profound mystery of all
--- 'WHY WE (made of matter) EXIST' ----
does not mean we have to assume an all powerful being like the Christian God who creates, controls, acts on matter, and rules and monitors everything.
In the last 1000 years more and more mysteries have been explained. In the coming thousands of years many more mysteries will be resolved. That means religious beliefs get pushed back more and more, away from the current simple absolute religious 'truths' and beliefs as described in 'holy' books. Religions always consist of a mixture of man made philosophies, myths, theories, taboos, legends, laws, rules, remnants of pagan religions, etc., explanations from hundreds of years or even much longer ago, and are being pushed back or voided by science and much more rational explanations.
That also means a religion such as Christianity can only survive if it develops a much better explanation and rationale for the mystery of matter and life, and for our existence. However Christianity cannot 're-engineer' itself. It cannot offer a science-based explanation of life, or even reform itself into a more rational philosophy of life.
So it will remain an anti-scientific belief system based on fixed explanations for life and death, made by men and women who lived hundreds and even thousands of years ago.
The contradiction between what we learn from science and the fixed explanations from hundreds and thousands of years ago will grow. Christianity and other similar religions likely will slowly disappear. The psychological human need for spirituality will not disappear, but the dogmas and beliefs of religions such as Christianity, Islam and Judaism will become less and less acceptable to more and more people.
10. The core issue is a direct conflict between:
o the religious/emotional/non-scientific approach or persona and o the scientific/rational approach or persona
Spirituality will stay in various forms, but dogmatic religions based on ancient and fixed beliefs will slowly disappear or remain with smaller and smaller groups of the uneducated or the un-enlightened or the desperate or the frightened or the indoctrinated.
There may be long religious revivals and reactions but on longer terms science and associated education will (albeit slowly) void ancient belief systems.
However, religions can very well hang on for a long time, even when becoming unsatisfactory to many more people, e.g. if and when there are no other enticing spiritual/social frameworks as substitutes or replacements. For scientists that could well be science and the wonders, the size and the unbelievable beauty and complexity of the physical universe.
But the masses are poorly educated and never get enthralled by nature or by scientific exploration and thought. They do get enthralled by food, drink, sex, entertainment and the accumulation of material possessions: The absence or substitute for or even opposite of spirituality.
The basic science-religion conflict is also why so many religions, including Christianity and Islam, in their core must stay so anti- science. They can never embrace a much more rational belief system that so clearly exposes the phallacies in their inherited belief system.
Why is rejecting Christianity in my opinion a step forward?
Instead of believing in fixed philosophies, laws and taboos created by men and women many hundreds and even thousands of years ago, who did not know any better (not their fault), it is much better to determine our own beliefs and truths. That will enable us to leave behind outdated laws, fears, prejudices, misconceptions, racism, intolerance, supremacy feelings, and ancient ideas about death, heaven, hell, sin, soul, etc.
That freedom will jettison all the religious garbage that is a constant obstructionist obstacle to a better, more rational and more humane world.
Rationality does not ENSURE more humanity, but in my opinion it is a more promising path than non-rationality including religions such as Christianity.
Michael M. Terra - Carl Sagan's Billions and Billions
IlBeBauck@gmail.com - 25 Dec 2007 14:16 GMT On Dec 24, 10:20 pm, "Carl Sagan's billions" <mm2te...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I struggled for a long time, in my younger years, trying to > understand the basic doctrines, the core beliefs, the philosophies, [quoted text clipped - 217 lines] > > That freedom will jettison all the religious garbage that is REPLY: Perhaps you just didnt get your many questions answered then. In the book :"IDont Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist' by Dr. Norman Geisler , he detailed the evidence for Christ, God, absoloute moral laws, the new testament, the old testament, heaven, hell, etc... in very clear terms . In addition, he fairly treats the Atheism Faith as he describes the enourmous faith an atheist must have to deny a personal Creator. Its the book that even atheists say is very very compelling (only that their WILL vetos it). If youre still truly interested in seeking the truth, it can be obtained inexpensively at www.impactapologetics.com . If money is a bit tight for you at this christmas time, i would consider it a pleasure to send you one as my Christmas gift to you. Regards.
Mark K. Bilbo - 25 Dec 2007 16:07 GMT > REPLY: Perhaps you just didnt get your many questions answered then. In > the book :"IDont Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist' by Dr. Norman > Geisler , Who is, purely by the title, a liar.
It does not require "faith" to lack belief in something. That's stupid.
 Signature Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423 EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion ------------------------------------------------------------ Nine out of ten priests who have tried Camels, prefer young boys.
Christopher A.Lee - 25 Dec 2007 16:22 GMT >> REPLY: Perhaps you just didnt get your many questions answered then. In >> the book :"IDont Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist' by Dr. Norman [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >It does not require "faith" to lack belief in something. That's stupid. It is a rare theist who understands what an atheist is.
And a mind-bogglingly stupid, arrogant one who tells us to read a bookm by a pig-ignorant liar to "tell us what we are".
Mark K. Bilbo - 25 Dec 2007 21:03 GMT >>> REPLY: Perhaps you just didnt get your many questions answered then. >>> In the book :"IDont Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist' by Dr. Norman [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > And a mind-bogglingly stupid, arrogant one who tells us to read a bookm > by a pig-ignorant liar to "tell us what we are". You could have stopped at "understands". <G>
 Signature Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423 EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion ------------------------------------------------------------ Why does the Vatican have lightning rods?
Peter Bowditch - 26 Dec 2007 00:16 GMT >Perhaps you just didnt get your many questions answered then. >In the book :"IDont Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist' by Dr. Norman [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >christmas time, i would consider it a pleasure to send you one as my >Christmas gift to you. Regards. PO Box 1166 Parramatta NSW 2124 Australia
Thank you. I look forward to reading the book and being converted.
 Signature Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Michael Ejercito - 25 Dec 2007 16:32 GMT On Dec 24, 8:20 pm, "Carl Sagan's billions" <mm2te...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Why is rejecting Christianity in my opinion a step forward? Rejecting Christianity is a step forward into the lake of fire.
Michael
Mark K. Bilbo - 25 Dec 2007 21:04 GMT >> Why is rejecting Christianity in my opinion a step forward? > > Rejecting Christianity is a step forward into the lake of fire. Which place you cannot provide evidence exists so who cares?
 Signature Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423 EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion ------------------------------------------------------------ “There is always an easy solution to every problem - neat, plausible, and wrong.”
- H. L. Mencken
george - 25 Dec 2007 23:16 GMT > >> Why is rejecting Christianity in my opinion a step forward? > > > Rejecting Christianity is a step forward into the lake of fire. > > Which place you cannot provide evidence exists so who cares? Rejection of any and all religions is a great leap forward in Mans evolution..
Dante said that hell was a frozen lake. this twit claims its a lake of fire. Maybe they should all go away and spend a few centuries working the next lot of their bullshit out while the rest of us get on with life
Michael Ejercito - 25 Dec 2007 23:35 GMT > > >> Why is rejecting Christianity in my opinion a step forward? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Rejection of any and all religions is a great leap forward in Mans > evolution.. A leap forward into the lake of fire...
Michael
DanielSan - 25 Dec 2007 23:41 GMT >>>>> Why is rejecting Christianity in my opinion a step forward? >>>> Rejecting Christianity is a step forward into the lake of fire. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> > A leap forward into the lake of fire... "Lake of Fire"....is that anything like Klingon homeworld of Qo'noS (Kronos)?
P.S.: "Lake of Fire" is an actual location on the map. It's a valley just outside of Jerusalem where they dumped the trash and other refuse and, in order to keep the level down, they'd set it on fire. It stunk like nobody's business and they'd execute criminals in that "lake of fire" created by the burning garbage.
Research "Valley of Hinnom" and "Gehenna" for more information.
 Signature **************************************************** * DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 * *--------------------------------------------------* * "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act * * of the whole American people which declared that * * their legislature should make no law respecting * * an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the * * free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of * * separation between church and state." * * --Thomas Jefferson, 1802 * ****************************************************
Mark K. Bilbo - 26 Dec 2007 13:27 GMT >> > > On Dec 24, 8:20 pm, "Carl Sagan's billions" <mm2te...@yahoo.com> >> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> > A leap forward into the lake of fire... And soon as you have evidence for such a thing, we'll start worrying...
 Signature Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423 EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion ------------------------------------------------------------ “Honor is simply the morality of superior men.”
- H. L. Mencken
V - 26 Dec 2007 14:13 GMT On Dec 24, 11:20 pm, "Carl Sagan's billions" <mm2te...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I struggled for a long time, in my younger years, trying to > understand the basic doctrines, the core beliefs, the philosophies, [quoted text clipped - 225 lines] > > Michael M. Terra - Carl Sagan's Billions and Billions While what you write is true for the most part (it may be all true but I just skimmed your post) ...what is logical is not always practical when it comes to humans. And we can especially see this with our atheist friends.
Without spiritual values, the atheist is sunk. The atheist that only has a foundation of ego and hate will never find peace. And this include the scientists as well. If any theist questioning their faith should wonder onto alt.atheism they could see this for themselves with the underlying dissatisfaction with the members and their projection of this self hate onto others.
What is missing in these atheists lives? '
Spiritual Values' is what they are short on.
Such atheists devoid of spiritual values are 'dogmatic skeptics', whereas atheists that are open to spiritual vales are of the order of 'skeptical skeptics.' There is a world of difference between the two types of atheists...night and day difference.
As one dogmatic skeptic put it:
"What is spirit or spirituality? Without knowing what you mean by the word, one can't know what you mean. Why study something for which you not only have no evidence, but not even a definition?"
A Hindu sage underscores what is wrong with such 'mind manacled atheists' that think spiritual studies is a waste of time:
"Just as water floes downhill without effort but requires outside forces and energy to make it move uphill. So the human consciousness falls to its lowest levels of the senses without effort and energies to make our consciousness gravitate to more than our base desires."
Professor Peter Kreeft also remarked on this subject of morality:
First level morality could be called survival morality - lets not hit each other on the head so none of us will die
Second level morality could be justice morality - lets not hit each other on the head because it is not fair or not right.
Third level morality could be called 'transcend the ego' morality - lets not hit each other because we love each other. (this third level morality comes from spiritual studies and religion)
Just being an atheists does nothing for one morality and virtue. As I said, all one has to do is look around here for proof of that. If anything, alt.athist does a disservice to atheism by demonstrating how low the human sprit can sink without any connection to spiritual values.
When you write:
"An atheist's belief is not dependent on their fear, pain, and pleasure -- he will believe in what the evidence shows,"
This is not true. Every atheists serves 2 Gods whether they like it or not. of course atheists will never admit this since it makes them theist of sorts. But until they accept they have a higher power to serve their life will Connie on the downward spire of self destruction. (Please not, I am not trotting to play games here and convince atheists that the 2 gods I write about are Yahweh.)
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=342.0
Yes, spiritual concepts are hard to define, just as the source of the wind is hard to define. We can describe spiritual concepts but it is impossible to put our finger on it all exactly. Spiritual growth is a journey that is a never ending, imperfect process in this life. But just as we can see the effects of the wind while being blind to its source, We can most definitely see the difference in people that live a life devoid of any spiritual values whatsoever to those people that incorporate spiritual values in their lives.
I was at a religious discussion where the group was composed of a wide spectrum of believers and non believers. One atheist said he ran his life by the golden rule. Another person piped up that the golden rule came from the bible, which made the atheist wince. The atheist seemed to take pride in his self sufficiency and did not like to run his life by anything that came out of the bible. Then when it came up that the golden rule might be from another source than he bible the atheist was relieved.
This was a good reminder to me to examine where my guiding light resides? Is it ego based or truth based? When the guiding light of this atheist was not grounded in the bible he was happy. But when it came from an area that he did not like, he was upset. How can the same material be used to build a palace by one man, yet only build a hovel for another? By one spiritual practitioner seeing truth and applying it to live a life at peace. And the other person only seeing prejudice and problems and doing nothing.
Every religion was made by man and as such every religion is imperfect as it is run by man. Despite these imperfections, each religion also has many "perfection's" within it as well. We can still be open to peace generating tools from any of the religions and spiritual traditions that are available to us if we are serious about being at peace. This requires us to run our life by truth and not by prejudice. In the Sermon on the Mount, it was reported that Jesus said: "Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them" (Matthew 7:12). Nowadays this verse is commonly referred to as "The Golden Rule," and is more commonly quoted as: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." I've been told this concept is much older than the bible. Here are a few sources http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethic_of_reciprocity
~1970-1640 BCE "Do for one who may do for you, / That you may cause him thus to do." - The Tale of the Eloquent Peasant 109-110, Ancient Egypt, tr. R.B. Parkinson.
* ~700 BCE "That nature only is good when it shall not do unto another whatever is not good for its own self." - Dadistan-i-Dinik 94:5, Zoroastrianism.
* ? BCE "Whatever is disagreeable to yourself do not do unto others." - Shayast-na-Shayast 13:29, Zoroastrianism.
* ~550 BCE "You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against your countrymen. Love your fellow as yourself: I am the LORD." - Tanakh, new JPS translation, Leviticus 19:18, Judaism.
* ~500 BCE "Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful." - Udana-Varga 5:18, Buddhism.
Now, whether you believe in God or believe in Jesus or are an atheist or Buddhist does this wisdom not apply to you? Some say Jesus was a myth created by the Christians. Even so, does it make the golden rule false? This truth is generally universal in nature. Neil wont agree that it is ultimate universal truth, but if Neil is wait to find ultimate, universal truth when it comes to spiritual values and morals he will be waiting a long time. This is why Neil is Neil...analysis paralysis. Aristotle shed a little light on this subject - "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it and to rest satisfied with the degree of precision which the nature of the subject admits and not to seek exactness where only an approximation is possible." And while Neil is educated and smart academically, Neil is also bankrupt when it comes to spiritual values.
In this case, you can adopt a peace generating tool and apply it to your life irrespective of your religious beliefs or lack thereof. Wisdom for living a life at peace is all around us for the taking. But many of us get blinded with labels and personal prejudices. Whenever we take it upon ourselves to beat down, we are headed in a direction of destroying peace. We destroy our own peace as well as others peace. As such, I practice from many religious and spiritual traditions without problems or prejudices and readily look for such gifts irrespective of what label they come under - on the contrary I am most grateful wherever I find them. If I am not able to use a concept, I leave it alone, but do not spend my time or energies to beat others down. Do we like to be beaten down?
I see this predisposition to destruction many times in responses I receive from my posts. The critiques offer much in the line of 'no goods' but they seldom do they offer any substantive tools to finding peace. Maybe I do not have it '100% right' but I have it 'right enough' to be able to be at peace if I apply these principles. If I waited for perfection like Neil, I would never act. I use the tools at hand the best I can.
This being able to 'rest satisfied' is something the perfectionists lack and why they will never be at peace until they stop collecting concepts and start using the concepts of peace generation. Their practice is ego based, mine is practice based. We can examine our writing to see what useful tools for finding peace we offer others or is all our efforts to beat others down? When you practice peace promotion you will reap inner peace promotion. When you practice destroying others peace you will reap self destruction of inner peace. This is karma in action, this is the bible, 'reap as yea sow,' this is universal truth.
(name removed) writes: "... a glance at history shows that the Golden Rule hasn't made Christians especially peaceful."
V writes:
Yes, this is true and it proves the point that knowledge without application is useless. It also confirms the 'eightfold path of Buddhism' that reminds us of the right ways to peace.
Sure tearing others down appeals to ones ego and pride, but so did torturing insects when we were kids. When we grow up we need a different way to find self worth. As you instill seeds of peace within others you plant the same seeds and water these seeds within you as well. As you give so you receive. Whenever we take it upon ourselves to beat down others, we are headed in a direction of destroying peace. We destroy our own peace as well as others peace. It takes no energy from me to pass something by and leave it alone in peace. But it takes my energy as well as my peace to pick something up to destroy it. (No, I am not talking about picking up a potato to destroy it by eating it.)
Maybe something useful in the members reviewing "The Affirmations of Humanism: A Statement of Principles"
* We are committed to the application of reason and science to the understanding of the universe and to the solving of human problems.
* We deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature for salvation.
* We believe that scientific discovery and technology can contribute to the betterment of human life.
* We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian elites and repressive majorities.
* We are committed to the principle of the separation of church and state.
* We cultivate the arts of negotiation and compromise as a means of resolving differences and achieving mutual understanding.
* We are concerned with securing justice and fairness in society and with eliminating discrimination and intolerance.
* We believe in supporting the disadvantaged and the handicapped so that they will be able to help themselves.
* We attempt to transcend divisive parochial loyalties based on race, religion, gender, nationality, creed, class, sexual orientation, or ethnicity, and strive to work together for the common good of humanity.
* We want to protect and enhance the earth, to preserve it for future generations, and to avoid inflicting needless suffering on other species.
* We believe in enjoying life here and now and in developing our creative talents to their fullest. * We believe in the cultivation of moral excellence.
* We respect the right to privacy. Mature adults should be allowed to fulfill their aspirations, to express their sexual preferences, to exercise reproductive freedom, to have access to comprehensive and informed health-care, and to die with dignity.
* We believe in the common moral decencies: altruism, integrity, honesty, truthfulness, responsibility. Humanist ethics is amenable to critical, rational guidance. There are normative standards that we discover together. Moral principles are tested by their consequences.
* We are deeply concerned with the moral education of our children. We want to nourish reason and compassion.
* We are engaged by the arts no less than by the sciences.
* We are citizens of the universe and are excited by discoveries still to be made in the cosmos.
* We are skeptical of untested claims to knowledge, and we are open to novel ideas and seek new departures in our thinking.
* We affirm humanism as a realistic alternative to theologies of despair and ideologies of violence and as a source of rich personal significance and genuine satisfaction in the service to others.
* We believe in optimism rather than pessimism, hope rather than despair, learning in the place of dogma, truth instead of ignorance, joy rather than guilt or sin, tolerance in the place of fear, love instead of hatred, compassion over selfishness, beauty instead of ugliness, and reason rather than blind faith or irrationality.
* We believe in the fullest realization of the best and noblest that we are capable of as human beings.
Council for Secular Humanism
The 'informal creed' of atheism also supports these values for the dogmatic skeptic that is attached to asterism under all costs and discounts secular humanism as well.
An Atheist loves his fellow man instead of god. An Atheist believes that heaven is something for which we should work now - here on earth for all men together to enjoy.
An Atheist believes that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction, and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it and enjoy it.
An Atheist believes that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment. He seeks to know himself and his fellow man rather than to know a god. An Atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church.
An Atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said.
An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He wants man to understand and love man.
He wants an ethical way of life. He believes that we cannot rely on a god or channel action into prayer nor hope for an end of troubles in a hereafter.
He believes that we are our brother's keepers; and are keepers of our own lives; that we are responsible persons and the job is here and the time is now."
http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker Practical Philosopher AA#2
V - 26 Dec 2007 14:15 GMT > On Dec 24, 11:20 pm, "Carl Sagan's billions" <mm2te...@yahoo.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 205 lines] > > - Show quoted text - They like to fantasize what the world would be like if religion would never have been invented.
Atheists look at this topic with tunnel vision
The facts are this: when people are devoid of religion / spiritual values...they generally stink as humans.
Sure Christians do bad things, so do all practitioners in other religions. But many of these religious practitioners also do good things.
You never see atheists taking up charitable works and feeding and clothing the poor in any organized way as Christians do.
There may be the odd atheists philanthropists here or there, but nothing organized like Christians charitable organizations.
I wrote to the president of American Atheists, UK Atheists, the Secular Humanism Foundation, Sam Harris and others about this very topic and none had the courtesy to reply.
Shows how much interest atheists really have in humanity.
No, I prefer to keep things as they are and keep religions, even with all their imperfections.
I believe religions do more good than harm. I shudder to think what the world would be like if it was composed solely of atheists.
The many countries that the US has been at war with and subsequently lost the war to can be most grateful we were not an atheist country.
If we were a country that did not apply Christian principles to our captors millions more would have been killed.
Atheist run countries have a policy of extermination and ethnic cleansing rather than applying charity.
Atheist like to claim religion killed so many people...well without religion in world the killings would have been much worse.
When I discussed Christian principles one time an Atheist piped up to say "the Christians have no principles," and "Jesus was a fabled creation of the Christians."
When we sperate the personalities from the principles it makes looking at things much easier. When I am referring to Christian principles I speak of such things as charity, works of mercy and the golden rule, where the emphasis is on principles and not on the personalities of the church.
For even if Jesus was just created as a fable, these Christian principles are universal truths in their own right if one desires to live a life at peace and promote the inner peace of others in this world.
"The Corporal Works of Mercy"
To feed the hungry To give drink to the thirsty To clothe the naked To harbour the harbourless To visit the sick To ransom the captive To bury the dead
"The Spiritual Works of Mercy"
To instruct the ignorant To counsel the doubtful To admonish sinners To bear wrongs patiently To forgive offenses willingly To comfort the afflicted To pray for the living and the dead
You see, by applying the rule of reciprocity or rule of opposites we can see if we were in these positions of the needy mentioned above, we would like such charity bestowed on us for the most part. What about our children, parents and loved ones? Wouldn't we wish the same for them? We have no loved ones? What about our neighbors? The Christian ethic says to treat one another as we would wish to be treated. As we give ~ so we receive.
Even if an atheist, as we give peace - we receive inner peace as many of the tools I mentioned above do not require belief in God, they only requirement is a desire to be at peace and to bring peace to others. This is the Christian doctrine in a nutshell, when we put principles before personalities.
As you instill seeds of peace within others you plant the same seeds and water these seeds within you as well. As James Allen wrote in "As a man Thinketh" ~ To think well of all, to be cheerful with all, to patiently learn to find the good in all - such unselfish thoughts are the very portals of heaven; and to dwell day by day in thoughts of peace toward every creature will bring abounding peace to their possessor."
This is universal truth that transcends man made religions. Remember, we do not have to do it perfectly. Just look for direction and forget perfection - for perfection or range is of the ego and form is of the soul. There are many tools for peace within the worlds spiritual paths, no one said these paths are perfect, in fact, it was once said that walking the spiritual path is akin to walking on a razors edge.
But if we bother to be honest, non prejudicial and to look, we can find tools that can help us be at peace whether atheist, agnostic or believer.
Again, when people are devoid of religion...they generally stink as humans.
Until atheism can replace theist based religion as a VIABLE and REAL way to inner peace, with a reverence of humanity, it can never take over the world and extinguish religion.
When you get rid of one thing, it makes room for another.
Sure atheist can succeed at pointing to the flaws of religious thought, but they have nothing to replace the flaws with.
So theists choose the lesser of two evils while on earth, with the hopes of hitting the jackpot in the hereafter.
When atheists become successes at 'the religion of humanity,' you may become more successful at replacing theist based religion.
Until that time..."a mans mind may be likened to a garden which may be intelligently cultivated or allowed to run wild; but whether cultivated or neglected, it must and will bring forth. If no useful seeds are put into it, then an abundance of useless 'weed seeds' will fall therein and will continue to produce their kind." ~ James Allen
And religion does a good job at controlling the weeds.
In its history, organized atheism has never succeeded at replacing religion with real humanity and compassion.
The atheists talk a good story, but atheists fail miserably when it comes to practical application of the 'peace talk.'
And really the vast majority of atheists don't even have 'the talk' to spout, since they have no semblance of inner peace themselves in order to form a basis of 'lip service' to pontificate.
Don't know what I mean?
I'm saying that most atheists are too ignorant when the subject turns to inner peace to even lie about or pretend that they know anything about the subject.
Another reason atheists will never win, is in general it takes hatred to fuel atheism if one is a dogmatic, militant atheist.
Hatred blinds one to peace.
When you lose the hatred and militant foundation, then you do not wish to destroy others or their religion....you are at peace to let them be religious.
Sure you do not let others destroy you with religion, you tell them the facts that they run by faith, so do not get too high and mighty and start forcing you into the religion against your will.
But you only fight in a measured way of self defense, instead of the offensive atheists that sets out to destroy 'all faith based beliefs' just for the sheer joy of hurting another.
Sure tearing others down appeals to one's ego and pride, but so did torturing insects when we were kids. When we grow up we need a different way to find self worth.
As you instill seeds of peace within others you plant the same seeds and water these seeds within you as well.
As you give so you receive.
Is that from the bible or karma?
No, it is just universal law.
Do we like to be beaten down?
Whenever we take it upon ourselves to beat down others, we are headed in a direction of destroying peace. We destroy our own peace as well as others peace.
It takes no energy from me to pass something by and leave it alone in peace. But it takes my energy as well as my peace to pick something up to destroy it.
When I posted this paragraph earlier, an atheist piped to accuse me of hypocrisy, telling me that I destroy a potato when I pick it up to eat it, so I am a liar.
Natural law dictates I must eat, but there is no law that says I must spew venom from my mouth to destroy others.
If atheists can get over fishing for red herrings and get onto bigger fish to fry they will see a world of difference in their peace practice.
The destruction of inner peace by destroying potatoes comes about when I destroy my neighbors crop field of potatoes by poisoning them to bankrupt him in order to take over his farmland...it does not come about by eating a potato.
The God of Nature gives me potatoes to eat, the God of Inner Peace tells me to not eat potatoes in excess or to destroy others if I wish to be at peace. I cannot see either God, I know not how these God's work, I just know they are and I can abide by their guidance or be defiant to these Gods and end up destroying my life and the lives of others.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=342.0
Yes, there are theists that stink. See: http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/burning.html
I will be the first to admit that religion has done lots of harm but I will also say religion done lots of right.
And just as the question of God cannot be answered with any certainty, so goes the question of whether the world would have been better off without religion or not.
It is a question that cannot be answered like it was in the movie "It's a Wonderful life.'
But lets look at the facts and see that the vast, vast majority of people are theists or believe in hereafter, so the pot is enormous that we draw from when we pull out examples of evildoing theists that the atheists like to parade around.
The USA was founded with God in the details. I suggest atheists that hate a religious based country like the USA move to China or Russia. Then you can live your dream right now, in your God free country.
In China, it was a common practice to execute political prisoners with one bullet to the head...then they sent the bill for the bullet to the family of the executed prisoner. That is where separation of state and religion can lead a country. Once religion is out of politics, then the only thing left in control is ego.
They say Hitler was a Catholic?
I don't know if he was Catholic or not.
I do know that Hitler did not practice even the most basic tenants of Christianity.
It takes more than lip service to be a 'practicing' Catholic, Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu or Hebrew follower.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=380.0
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/browse_frm/thread/125b41aa8fd2b87b/cf 400bdf88ba1701?lnk=gst&q=conundrum&rnum=7&hl=en#cf400bdf88ba1701
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=509.0
Now, some 'spiritually based atheist's can far surpasses many theists in kindness and virtue many times...so it just depends on what 'type of atheist' you are talking about? But these sort of atheists are very rare to encounter, as spiritual values and atheism do not generally mix.
"People that practice religion are worried about going to hell - people that practice spirituality have already been to hell and don't want to go back."
A lot of atheists I run into make their intellect their God. They do not know that academic smarts are not the same as peace smarts. Until they can transcend their ego they will never find the answer (peace) they seek.
It is the same for those that think money is all that is standing between them and happiness.
So it goes for the ego and intellect based person that is devoid of spiritual values.
And if the atheists is honest they will see they do not run their lives solely by logic and are no better than the theist that runs their lives by faith.
No, logic only goes so far in life. For what is logical is not always practical when it comes to humans ... is it?
Always remember...one thing only goes so far with giving a person a good life. Seek balance.
Spiritual growth as well as humans are not perfect - but we can all do better at being humans if we try to be more humane.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=4.0
There are many flavors of atheists...natural atheists, personal atheists, explicit atheists, implicit atheists weak atheists, strong atheists, discovery atheists, reactionary atheists, indoctrinated atheists and of course the bad a.s atheists with attitude aka BAAWA varieties.
But the defining characteristic that leads an atheist to peace is whether they are a 'spiritual based atheist' or 'defiance based atheist.''
The business of humanism is 'all our business' if we with to live life at peace. Egocentricity is not good for spiritual work and we need to be open to others ideas and embrace them as nourishment for your growth and sustenance for life - as no one person is god.
As a freethinking agnostic I AM FREE to look for truth wherever the road takes me. I discriminate against no one. As such, I study with the Christians, the Buddhists, the Jews, the Muslims, the Taoists and even find truth as I study with the atheists.
When you practice peace promotion with others you will reap inner peace promotion. When you practice destroying others peace, you will reap self destruction of inner peace.
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker Practical Philosopher AA#2
V - 26 Dec 2007 14:16 GMT > > On Dec 24, 11:20 pm, "Carl Sagan's billions" <mm2te...@yahoo.com> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 198 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I was discussing 'spiritual aspects of living' on various online forums. One group was a dedicated atheists discussion list with most members only offering bitter personal attacks instead of adding anything substantive to the discussion.
But to be fair to these atheists, I've known many a religious fellow that are just as bitter, if not more so, than atheists I meet. So just being 'religious' is not a guarantee of being at peace.
Each man made religion contains perfection's as well as imperfections. It is up to the practitioner or end user to use the tools in the right way.
The problem is not the wisdom that is defective.
The problem lies with religious practitioners who are defective in their practice of this wisdom.
The wisdom works - we don't work the wisdom.
Many times we are too busy for peace. As one atheist list member wrote, 'It took awhile - far too long, really - but I've finally found that one can find peace by simply being undisturbed."
Yes, peace is our birthright, if we are not destroying it by our own actions. In order to slow down enough to be able to use peace as a tool I needed to apply simplicity and renunciation to my life.
I am not an acetic or total renunciate by any means, but I did have to let go of many peace destroying habits before making room for inner peace to enter my life. As we get rid of one thing, it make room for another thing to enter.
The online discussions based in bitterness brought up the question of "what guiding light do atheists use to be at peace?"
Not much was offered in reply to my question. I got a few answers here or there.
It seems whenever the discussion turns to 'inner peace' many of the people I talk with are silent, this even goes for 'pious' Catholic priests.
But, one fellow on the forum mentioned 'truth and philosophy,' as his tools - both of these being good answers for peace generation with proper application. Philosophy plays a big role in my life as well for providing tools to live at peace.
I also supplement my spiritual path from many other sources as I will go into below. I am only interested in practical application of philosophy though and not bickering and arguing over the unanswerable. So, I prefer truth based discussions over ego based discussions where the truth gets overshadowed by rhetoric. As someone once wrote ... "if you don't know the answer then just say so."
see:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=504.0
I was at a philosophy symposium last year and talked with a professor about a teaching / mentor relationship he had with Ayn Rand.
He went on to say how after a year they broke up the mentor relationship on a sour note. After I questioned the professor about Rand's personal life as well as her state of inner peace and happiness, I could see that with all her talents of 'smarts' she was bankrupt when the subject turned to peace smarts, contentment and happiness.
She was ego based and not practice based when it came to peace generation.
Furthermore, she not only destroyed her peace, but from the information that came out of our discussion, the then student's peace was disturbed at the time and it still sounded disturbed decades later as a distinguished professor and author. Academic smarts are not the same as peace smarts.
The branch of philosophy that deals with the study of ethics and virtue has also helped me along in life.
What is virtue and ethics?
Some authorities define it as 'excellence of the soul' or moral excellence. (Although the Greeks thought of 'soul and form' in different terms than say Christians think of soul. For example, the soul of an eye would be its ability to 'see' and whether this ability was good or bad would decide whether the soul of an eye had 'virtue' or excellence.)
The concept for understanding virtue can be told in a story of the 'Ring of Gyges' or 'Myth of Gyges'. This story was taken from Plato's Republic and recounts how the shepherd Gyges finds a ring on a hand extending from a crack in the earth and removes the ring from the hand and puts it on. Gyges discovers the magic ring gives him powers to be invisible at will and then uses these powers to kill the king, rape the queen and take over the kingdom. As James Allen tells us in "As A Man Thinketh" - "Circumstances does not make the man - it reveals him to himself"
What is virtuous behavior in a flourishing human being?
In readily understandable terms we can help define virtue for us from this story of Gyges and by asking ourselves the question, "What would we do if no one was looking or we knew we would not get caught?"
No heaven, no hell, no God, no karma, no police, nothing but us and our virtue?
Would our actions promote our inner peace as well as the inner peace of others or would our actions destroy our peace and the peace of others?
Virtue is not learned from the classroom, other than memorizing definitions. Remember, a fool can only say what he knows ~ it takes a wise man to know what he says.
How do we become a success at living a virtuous life and really know what we say?
As a lecture on Aristotle mentioned: "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." We develop it by practice. Practicing 'excellence of the human soul' is how.
Beside the philosophical studies of ethics and virtue, a Buddhist or Taoist practice is another good peace developer for anyone to adopt whether atheist, agnostic or believer.
Buddhists are generally not required to believe or not believe in God, so anyone can make use of this philosophy irrespective of their religious beliefs or lack thereof.
But be careful with your Buddhist studies if you decide to head in this direction. For Buddhism is riddled with useless ego based dogma. If you can sift through the useless as a freethinker and find the gems you will do well.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=9.0
Personally, I've settled on the essence of Buddhism and that is what I work on and find much peace with this type of simplified Buddhist practice.
"The Three Pillars of Buddhism"
1- Practicing mindfulness and meditation to develop peace and self awareness of our own true nature.
2- Accepting the liberating wisdom of impermanence and practicing non- clinging and a lessening of craving and desires.
3- The development of compassion for others.
In addition to the three pillars, we can use the eightfold path to guide us. Within the three pillars and the eightfold path are a lifetime of practice.
No need to get lost in endless debate and spend your precious time in idle talk that only serves to massage one's ego. Plenty of work to do right here, right now, unless we prefer to keep our minds distracted through our perpetual complexities we are so addicted to.
We do need to give some thought of the 'right' way to live as the eightfold path tells us, so we should never try and be devoid of thought in our lives, but instead look for a balance and let thought serve us for once.
"The Eightfold Path"
1. Right View 2. Right Intention 3. Right Speech 4. Right Action 5. Right Livelihood 6. Right Effort 7. Right Mindfulness 8. Right Concentration
How can you differentiate right from wrong?
By peace.
You learn what destroys your peace and the peace of others as well as what promotes you inner peace and the inner peace of others. Do you need a teacher for that? Or the Pope to tell you? Or just listen to peace as the best teacher?
The Five precepts are the 'commandments' more or less for Buddhists. Although you are not commanded to do a thing. If you wish to live at peace, then proceed the best you can - but it is your choice.
"The Five Precepts"
1. Refrain from Killing 2. Refrain from Stealing 3. Refrain from Sexual Misconduct 4. Refrain from False Speech 5. Refrain from the Use of Intoxicants
Once I am at peace, I can share with others about finding peace for themselves, which is the secondary reason I practice.
I have no interest in practicing Buddhism for extinguishing reincarnation. These "fear based" reasons for being a Buddhist are not authentic or natural - the persons actions are based on fear or negative consequences otherwise they would not do them. My actions are based on inner peace and if I stray - there goes my peace - it is my choice.
Remember what I wrote about above with the myth of Gyges?
Take away the fear of pain of karma or hell and you have a different person?
A truly virtuous life remains the same irrespective of such fears and is not based on them.
I enjoy life and realize that due to natural law, suffering comes about as part of the process and I accept it as a fair trade off for the privilege of living.
Buddhism helps makes this trade off of life and pain more in my favor by lending me support to live a life at peace. I do not practice Buddhism to earn merit for the next life - I practice Buddhism for my own peace generation in THIS LIFE.
You see, once a religion requires faith, this is where I leave off with it's teaching.
I only use the tools that can be applied in this life that can be tested to yield peace.
Otherwise, if I succumb to fantasy notions I start heading towards the road of delusion.
So whether it is heaven, hell, reincarnation or chanting 'Namo Amitabha Buddha' for the Buddha to carry me off to the pure land...none of this can be proven as fact and is just based on ego based man and their fantasies.
Still, I am not shy about benefiting from any religious path that offers tools for me to live at peace.
I take from ALL spiritual paths without prejudice, my only requirement is that the religious or spiritual tool be one that offers peace. Any tool always has to pass the peace test, this way it speaks of a 'higher authority' than just man made dogma - it speaks of universal truth.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=470.0
But, this all has to be done in balance.
For there are many true things that are good - but done in excess they become bad.
For, even though air and water give us life, they will also give us death when in excess.
So always seek balance.
How flexible can you be when it comes to finding tools for living at peace within the worlds spiritual paths?
Even though I am not a Muslim, I borrowed from the Muslim's prayer schedule to use myself. The Muslims have a practice of praying five times a day to Allah. For those that do not know, Allah is the same God of the Jews and of the Old Testament that the Christians worship.
The Muslims pray at sun up, when the sun is at its zenith at noon, when the sun is part way down in the afternoon, when the sun sets and when they go to bed. Even though I am not a Muslim, I borrowed from the Muslim's prayer schedule to use as a reminder to be mindful of "gratitude" in my life.
If you do not want to develop a practice of gratitude, then what about using it as a reminder 5 times a day to relax your breath, practice mindfulness and bring your thoughts back to the present moment? When you have come to a point of gratitude for being able to open your eyes in the morning and being able to take a breath of air everything else is just gravy so to speak. Gratitude plays an important part with finding inner peace, just as being mindful of the present moment and being aware of anything that causes this mindfulness to wander.
If I could define the basis of my spiritual practice it would be that of peace and practicality. Inner peace is the foundation of it all, for we cannot have world peace without first being at peace within. I used to be a Catholic for many years of my life as well as a freethinking Buddhist before becoming an agnostic freethinker.
See::
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=318.0
A few years ago a lady moderator on a Christian forum banned me for claiming that God is peace, telling me "you don't know who God is."
Funny thing about the Christians. I was a Christian as well as a freethinking Buddhist in my earlier life and 100% of the Christian forums have banned me, and 95% of the Buddhist forums have also banned me.
This says something about the Christians and Buddhists and whether they practice what they preach? The Christians chanting the Golden rule of Reciprocity and Charity and Humility? and the Buddhists preaching Compassion, Do No Harm and Egoless Non-Self?
Why am I banned so much?
Is it for getting in fights or flame wars?
No...I get banned for writing about truth.
When someone disagrees with you, apply the law of opposites to get at the truth.
This removes the personalities and focusses on the principles and helps you see the entire picture.
If God is not peace, then God must be the opposite of peace...turmoil and unrest.
I prefer to believe God is peace and God is the authority on the subject of peace.
The difference between an authority and an authoritarian is this. An authority speaks from a place of truth and such speaks as an authority. Whereas an authoritarian rules by fear and not by truth. For the truth stands on it own and the authoritarian stands on their ego.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=343.0
The Buddhists have a set of rules they use to determine what are definitive truths and what are not. This can also be applied to such questions.
1) Do not rely on just the person but rely on the doctrine.
2) With respect to the doctrine, do not rely on just the words, but rely on the meaning.
3) With respect to the meaning, do not rely on just meaning requiring interpretation, but rely on meaning that is definitive.
4) With respect to definitive meaning, do not rely on just dualistic understanding but rely on the wisdom of the direct perception of the truth.
Bringing this worship business back to the topic of religion, do we worship a higher power out of fear for if we do not worship this higher power we will be killed?
Sounds like the aliens in an old "Superman" movies that came to earth to tell us to bow down to them or else?
If there was a God or a higher power does this entity need us to 'bow down' to a 'big ego' or does God need us to 'act right' to our companions as well as to act right to ourselves?
Bowing down produces no peace, whether in the person that demands it due to an over bloated ego, nor does it foster peace within the person forced to worship against their will. But this is how man made religions work - they are run by fear, greed and ego.
I prefer to be truth and peace based. Many think God is like 'Santa Claus' and must come through with their demands, just as we did as greedy children making up a long, impossible list for Santa to fill. This smacks of the ego based practitioner.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=133.0
The ego based person prays thinking they know better than God does.
The truly spiritual based person prays for God's will and not their own, for if they truly knew better than God...the practitioner would be the God.
Nothing wrong with asking if one is a believer, but always end such requests humbly with accepting Gods or a higher powers will with gratitude.
Can you imagine if everyone's prayers were answered according to our self centered and conflicting demands? The world would be in real turmoil then.
No, I prefer to make the God of Peace and the God of Nature two Gods I serve and as such my actions can be evaluated in simple terms of bringing me in harmony with these two Gods or not.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=342.0
Many times we violate the three branches of laws that govern us and constantly ask God or a higher power to give us 'hall passes' to avoid the consequences of our actions. Such prayer is again ego based, thinking we should have preference over the rest of the world for wishing to be exempt from our actions
We are all governed by these three areas of laws.
1 - Natural Law
2 - Divine or spiritual law (if you believe in spiritual matters)
3 - Manmade laws
I find that sometime spiritual practitioners neglect the natural laws that govern our bodies and suffer in this area from lack of living a balanced life.
Some of us forget we are spiritual beings residing in physical bodies living in physical world and governed my both spiritual and physical or natural laws in addition to man made laws.
We need some effort with spiritual work and some effort in physical work for a good balance. Some of us think we can defy man made laws as well as divine or spiritual laws.
But no matter how defiant the person is...we all answer to natural law. We all bow to nature in the end.
Anyway, you are free to think or not think of God or higher power as you see fit. I am only a 'minor authority' on peace and do not wish to be an authoritarian, so I allow freedom for all to think as they wish and only ask the same courtesy be extended to me - reciprocity.
Psychologist William James once said, "A great many people believe they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."
This applies to atheists as well as the religious or the pious. To avoid prejudice, we have to be careful of 'black or white' absolutes if you claim to truth based and not ego based in your beliefs. I work to keep an open mind for all religions as well as those persons that believe nothing.
When I discussed Christian principles one time an Atheist piped up to say "the Christians have no principles," and "Jesus was a fabled creation of the Christians."
When we sperate the personalities from the principles it makes looking at things much easier. When I am referring to Christian principles I speak of such things as charity, works of mercy and the golden rule, where the emphasis is on principles and not on the personalities of the church.
For even if Jesus was just created as a fable, these Christian principles are universal truths in their own right if one desires to live a life at peace and promote the inner peace of others in this world. Is it any different from the Taoists following the legend of Lao Tzu? Always look at what is said and not at who says what this divorces the personalties and prejudice from your search for truth.
"The Corporal Works of Mercy"
To feed the hungry To give drink to the thirsty To clothe the naked To harbour the harbourless To visit the sick To ransom the captive To bury the dead
"The Spiritual Works of Mercy"
To instruct the ignorant To counsel the doubtful To admonish sinners To bear wrongs patiently To forgive offenses willingly To comfort the afflicted To pray for the living and the dead
You see, by applying the rule of reciprocity or rule of opposites we can see if we were in these positions of the needy mentioned above, we would like such charity bestowed on us for the most part. What about our children, parents and loved ones? Wouldn't we wish the same for them? We have no loved ones? What about our neighbors?
The Christian ethic says to treat one another as we would wish to be treated. As we give ~ so we receive. Even if an atheist, as we give peace - we receive inner peace as many of the tools I mentioned above do not require belief in God, they only requirement is a desire to be at peace and to bring peace to others. This is the Christian doctrine in a nutshell, when we put principles before personalities.
As you instill seeds of peace within others you plant the same seeds and water these seeds within you as well. As James Allen wrote in "As a man Thinketh" ~ To think well of all, to be cheerful with all, to patiently learn to find the good in all - such unselfish thoughts are the very portals of heaven; and to dwell day by day in thoughts of peace toward every creature will bring abounding peace to their possessor."
This is universal truth that transcends man made religions.
Remember, we do not have to do it perfectly. Just look for direction and forget perfection - for perfection or range is of the ego and form is of the soul.
There are many tools for peace within the worlds spiritual paths, no one said these paths are perfect, in fact, it was once said that walking the spiritual path is akin to walking on a razors edge. But if we bother to be honest, non prejudicial and to look, we can find tools that can help us be at peace whether atheist, agnostic or believer.
In the Gnostic gospel of Thomas, it was reported:
"The disciples asked Jesus, when will the kingdom come? Jesus replied, 'The kingdom will not come by watching for it. It will not be said - look here or look there. Rather, the kingdom of heaven is spread out upon the earth and men do not see it."
What does this quote mean for the atheist as well as the religious minded person?
For the atheist or as a nonbeliever of an afterlife:
THIS LIFE IS IT - This life is either heaven or hell as you make it. Just grabbing all the gusto you can will not give you peace.
It requires much more than that - for greed is never satisfied by attainment, it is only satisfied by contentment. We are reminded to be mindful of each moment given to us and to be grateful for this life. Being of service to others and charitable actions help lead us to contentment and peace.
There are 3 components for a happy life: Contentment, love or compassion and gratitude. When we realize that happiness and contentment are there for the taking and that they are independent from our circumstances it sometimes can sink in that there is nothing stopping us from being content and happy this very instant.
It is your choice alone as to whether you make this life one of peace for yourself and others or not, but in either case you will reap what you sow. "Just as a life of virtue yields its own reward, a life of vice yields its own punishment" - Plutarch
For the religious minded person and believer in an afterlife:
Jesus' saying will foreshadow things to come. For if we make this earthly life hell for ourselves and others, we have a slim chance of doing better in an afterlife. Just paying lip service to religious principles and doing the opposite will not do it.
Again mindfulness of our actions is most important. An old Buddhist saying sheds some light on our journey "when one eye is kept on the destination, it only leaves one eye left for the journey." If we keep fixated on the after life, and can't find peace in the present life, we can lose sight of the fact that our actions can turn the present moment in a living hell for us as well as others.
Actions speak louder than words and this especially applies to such religious beliefs. By applying the rule of reciprocity and Christian ethics and charity we have better chance at entering any afterlife and in the interim help make this life a peaceful one for all that dwell on earth.
So, whether you are on either end of this spectrum of beliefs, the choices are the same as to the direction we take when it comes to inner peace.
The seeds of enlightenment are all around us - we only have to seek the truth and come to peace within to realize this.
A quote on finding peace from Thich Nhat Hanh
"There is no way to peace, peace is the way.
This means that we can realize peace right here in the present moment with our look, our smile, our words and our actions.
Peace work in not a means, each step we take should be peace.
Every step we take should be joy.
Every step we take should be happiness.
Are you massaging Mother Earth every time your foot touches her?
Are you planting seeds of joy and peace?
Enlightenment, peace and joy will not be granted by someone else.
The well is within us and if we dig deeply in the present moment the water will spring forth.
If we are determined, we can do it.
We don't need the future.
We can smile, breath fully and relax Everything we want is here in the present moment.
Peace is every step.
Shall we continue our journey?"
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker Practical Philosopher AA#2
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