The Clash Of Ignorance

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Not-easily-duped - 28 Oct 2004 16:19 GMT

PAUL'S ARRIVAL AT JERUSALEM

When we arrived at Jerusalem,the brothers received us warmly.
The next day Paul and the rest of us went to see James, and all
elders were present. Paul greeted them and reported in detail what
God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.

When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul:" You see
brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed in Jesus as the
Messiah/Christ, and all of them are zealous for the Law/Torah.
They have been informed that you teach all the JEWS who live among
the Gentiles to TURN AWAY from MOSES, telling them not to circumcise
their children or live according to our customs. What shall we do?
They will certainly hear that you have come, so do what we tell you.
There are four men with us who have made a vow.
Take these men,join in their purification rites and pay their expenses,
so that they can have heads shaved. Then everybody will know
there is no truth in these reports about you.But that you yourself
are living in obedience to the Law.
As for the Gentile believers, we have written them our decision that
they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood,
from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality."

The Next day Paul took the men and purified hmself along with them.
Then he went to the temple to give notice of the date when the day
of purification would end and the offering would be made would be made
for each of them. Acts 21:17-26

-Given the above If anyone says that Christianity was of harmonized
doctrines from the start, he is ignorant.

-If anyone can not trace Islam back to James, he doen't know how to
investigate nor does he understand the message of the Qur'an and
culture.

-If anyone can not trace the Orthodoxy Catholic back to Paul,
he is a clueles idiot and a dogmatic.

-Given the above, If anyone says the firts Christians at Jerusalem
were all baptized, he is an obscurantist;you can not be baptized
and be circumcised at the same time, it makes no sense technically speaking.

-If anyone thinks the POPE is useful, let him be cursed

-If ANYONE Thinks that Islam has no biblical foundation, let him be ignored.

-If anyone thinks the Bible only belongs to the Christians and by Christians
he means the Pauline version, he knows nothing.

****If anyone can help defeat fundanmentalism, integrism,obcurantism
and any other isms out there, let him join us
to restore the integrity of HISTORY

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Vic Sagerquist - 28 Oct 2004 17:45 GMT

on 28 Oct 2004 in alt.atheism, Not-easily-duped dropped trou, farted,
whirled, then shouted:

> PAUL'S ARRIVAL AT JERUSALEM

...probably never happened.

Signature

Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________

The whole foundation of Christianity is based on the idea that
intellectualism is the work of the Devil. Remember the apple on the tree?
Okay, it was the Tree of Knowledge. "You eat this apple, you're going to be
as smart as God. We can't have that."
[Frank Zappa]

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Not-easily-duped - 29 Oct 2004 01:00 GMT

> on 28 Oct 2004 in alt.atheism, Not-easily-duped dropped trou, farted,
> whirled, then shouted:
>
> > PAUL'S ARRIVAL AT JERUSALEM
>
> ...probably never happened.

That is not the issue.

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dwgill - 28 Oct 2004 18:27 GMT

The expression "Orthodoxy Catholic" is a new one to me. "Orthodoxy" is a noun
and "Catholic" can be either an adjective or a noun. Please define a bit. Are
you lumping together Eastern Orthodoxy and Western Catholicism which have pretty
much gone their separate ways for the past 1000 years, officially since 1054
A.D.

> PAUL'S ARRIVAL AT JERUSALEM
>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> -Given the above If anyone says that Christianity was of harmonized
> doctrines from the start, he is ignorant.

In fact, it was at the first and second ecumenical councils (325 & 381 AD) that
the foundational doctrine of Christianity was officially adopted in what has
been professed by the vast majority of both Eastern and Western Christians ever
since: the Nicene Creed. The Creed was adopted before the 27 books of the New
Testament were culled from the great number of writings and gospels. Only those
books that were in sync with the Creed were and are officially recognized.

> -If anyone can not trace Islam back to James, he doen't know how to
> investigate nor does he understand the message of the Qur'an and
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> were all baptized, he is an obscurantist;you can not be baptized
> and be circumcised at the same time, it makes no sense technically speaking.

The Church had many issues to work through and resolve in its early as well as
later history. Baptism replaced circumcision as the initiatory rite into the
Christian community, but not without great resistance from the Judaizers within
its fold. Circumcision was an important connection with Jewish past and
culture, but it was a stumbling block to Gentile believers.

> -If anyone thinks the POPE is useful, let him be cursed

Are you saying that the Pope had nothing to do with the collapse of atheistic
communism first in Poland and then throughout the USSR? You would do well to
learn a bit of 20th century history.

> -If ANYONE Thinks that Islam has no biblical foundation, let him be ignored.

True. But the Bible draws lines and limits to the foundation. " For no other
foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now
if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood,
hay, straw -- each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose
it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of
work each one has done." 1 Cor 3.11-13 Islam does not build on the
foundation of Christ, or does it?

> -If anyone thinks the Bible only belongs to the Christians and by Christians
> he means the Pauline version, he knows nothing.

I gather you mean the Old Testament alone belongs to Jews, Christians, and
Muslims. And that Jews and Muslims do not recognize any divine authority
whatsoever in the writings of the New Testament--Gospels, Acts, Pauline and
General epistles, or the Apocalypse?

methodios (denny)

> ****If anyone can help defeat fundanmentalism, integrism,obcurantism
> and any other isms out there, let him join us
> to restore the integrity of HISTORY

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Not-easily-duped - 29 Oct 2004 01:05 GMT

> The expression "Orthodoxy Catholic" is a new one to me. "Orthodoxy" is a noun
> and "Catholic" can be either an adjective or a noun. Please define a bit. Are
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> That is to say CATHOLICISM before they went their separate way.

Catholicism which is spoke of in the Necean Creed.

"We believe in one Church Catholic and Apostolic".
That Church was pretty much different from the papal Church.

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Dave Holloway - 29 Oct 2004 00:59 GMT

>-If ANYONE Thinks that Islam has no biblical foundation, let him be ignored.

Ah, the old "the opposition does not exist" trick. One of the more
pathetic rhetorical maneuvers.

Dave

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History Forum / General / General Topics / October 2004

The Clash Of Ignorance