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History Forum / General / General Topics / February 2005



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First debate

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Ken Sisby - 01 Oct 2004 14:11 GMT
I watched the first Presidential debate last night and was surprised at how
confused Bush seemed to be.  He kept confusing Osama bin Laden and Saddam
Hussein and seemed not to be aware of the 911 Committee Report.  In answer
to why he attacked Iraq, he said "they attacked us".  When Kerry picked him
up on it, his response was, "I know it was Osama bin Laden who attacked
us!!"  The President seemed confused and bewildered and on several
occasions didn't know what to say.  He also seemed visibly upset on two
occasions, which struck me as odd in that he has been the leader of the
country for four years and should be used to being under pressure.

Kerry made a few blunders as in suggesting that bin Laden is in Afghanistan,
but by and large seemed more comfortable all night.  To be fair to the
President, Kerry is a much more intelligent and well- educated man with much
more experience in this kind of thing.
Needless to say, the impressions of the viewing public will split along
party lines in true American partisan style.

The one point that struck me as disturbing was that Kerry promised to seal
Iraq's borders if elected.  When I look at a map of the Middle East I notice
that Iraq is bordered by Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and the Kurdish
part of Turkey.  And of course both Iran and western Turkey are just south
of that very volatile Caucasus region of southern Russia where the Chechens
are.  In other words, Iraq is right in the thick of it.  Last night Kerry
made reference to the non-elected leader of Iraq's comments that thousands
of terrorists are pouring across Iraq's borders every day.  The question
that came to mind was, "hasn't anyone thought about this before?"

Surely someone in the Pentagon or the White House must have realized, as
George Bush Sr. did, that Iraq could not be subjugated and controlled
without sealing off its borders.  15 of the 19 suicide bombers that took out
the World Trade Centre were Saudis and polls show that most Saudi males hate
the US.  Iran goes without saying and Syria is a well-known supporter of
terrorists.  The eastern and Kurdish part of Turkey is full of oppressed
people who are always ready to fight and who were persecuted by Churchill
(chemical weapons) and lied to by Bush Sr. The Kurds do not want a stable
Iraq, they want a fragmented Iraq and an independent Kurdistan and would
probably be more than willing to allow Chechens to cross their territory.
This is not to mention the close proximity to Jordan with it's predominantly
Palestinian population.  And we all know how much Palestinians love America
for all the support that Israel gets.

The US military has been there for a year and a half.  Aren't the borders
being monitored?  Wasn't this planned for?  Didn't anyone reckon that the
Iranians would begin preparations to defend themselves against an American
invasion as soon as the first marine landed in Iraq?  Can it be any accident
that they now seem hell bent on acquiring nuclear weapons to defend
themselves against an American invasion?  Did the Bush administration
actually think that they were going to subdue the entire region?  Really?

Another thing that puzzled me was the fact that Pakistan will not allow the
US military to land on Pakistani soil.  Given Musharaff's former support for
the Taliban and Al Queda, is it not interesting that Osama is hiding in
northern Pakistan, near Pakistan's nuclear arsenal?  Since Musharaff's
support was bought with US$ 30 billion, can this man really be trusted to be
an ally of the US.  And this in a country where hatred of Americans exceeds
that in Saudi Arabia or Iran.

And finally it shocked me that the Bush administration cut taxes for rich
people when there isn't enough money to secure all of that spent nuclear
fuel in the former Soviet Union.  Who is in charge in the White House?

Ken
John Flippin' McGovern Kerry - 01 Oct 2004 16:02 GMT
Ken Sissy, your fruit loopy loony Leftist fucktarded analysis concerning
the American presidential debates is about as clear here as the Ketchup
Boy's stance on whether or not the world is better off without Saddam
Hussein in charge of Iraq, about as clear as your country Canada's flaky
"commitment" to fighting the War on Terror, about as clear as to which
language is the dominant language in your land of ice and snow and undue
French influence.  You'd better stick to your day job of feeding and
watering sled dogs and scooping *their* poop.  Here, you best educate
your frozen brain with this:

_

Media Credibility Reaches Lowest Point in Three Decades

http://www.gallup.com/poll/content/login.aspx?ci=13132

_

Do the Right Thing and Step Down, Mr. McAuliffe!

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0707-08.htm

_

Some Good News from Iraq

http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/

http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/

http://hammorabi.blogspot.com

http://www.messopotamian.blogspot.com/

http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/dhenninger/?id=110005668

_

More Good News from Iraq

http://www.chrenkoff.blogspot.com/

_

http://www.cjtf7.army.mil/the-coalition/coalition-forces.htm

http://www.washtimes.com/culture/20040310-102850-4087r.htm

http://www.loveourtroops.us

_

Negativism, the Demise of the 21st Century Democrat Party

http://www.dflorig.com/2002midterm.htm

Further Decline of the Eternally Pessimistic 'Modern'  Post-Clinton
Democrat Party

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2003/recall/

_

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/

http://www.powmiafamiliesagainstjohnkerry.com/

http://www.swiftvets.com/

http://freekerrybook.com

http://scaryjohnkerry.com/

http://www.wakeupzombies.com

_

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/

_
David Thorme - 02 Oct 2004 01:54 GMT
      First debate obviously went to Kerry!!
     Next debate will be on the economy.
     Kerry will BUTCHER KRIEG him!!
     HELP IS ON THE WAY!!!
Lamarr Edwards - 02 Oct 2004 02:33 GMT
Thorney -  Your objectivity is underwhelming.

You cannot give an honest evaluation of the debate, because you are a
kerryklown, I cannot, because I support the President.

I recognize my lack of objectivity, and regardless of my opinion, the
voters will decide who won, on election day.

What do you think of America's defense, according to kerry, having to
meet a "global standard", i.e., the world has to give us approval to
defend ourselves......................

No doubt you love it. LE
Shyster Loy-yah - 02 Oct 2004 02:37 GMT


John Forbes Kerry confessing to war crimes - audio

http://www.streamload.com/jmstein77/kerry2.mp3

John Forbes Kerry confessing to war crimes - text

http://www.richmond.edu/~ebolt/history398/JohnKerryTestimony.html

John Forbes Kerry's lackadaisical Senate voting record

http://www.orlandoreport.com/profiles/john_kerry_voting_record.htm

the *real* John Forbes Kerry

http://www.geocities.com/seavet72/AW/ws-kerry.htm

_

http://realclearpolitics.com/
Phony as a 3 Dollar Bill - 02 Oct 2004 02:41 GMT


Kerry confessing to war crimes - audio

http://www.streamload.com/jmstein77/kerry2.mp3

Kerry confessing to war crimes - text

http://www.richmond.edu/~ebolt/history398/JohnKerryTestimony.html

Kerry's lackadaisical Senate voting record

http://www.orlandoreport.com/profiles/john_kerry_voting_record.htm

the *real* Kerry

http://www.geocities.com/seavet72/AW/ws-kerry.htm

_

http://realclearpolitics.com/
David Thorme - 02 Oct 2004 10:48 GMT
Lamarr, your comical "conservative" arrogance is showing again! I'm a
Kerryklown, you, noble being that you are, "support the president".
   We claim to be defending the world so it would seem logical to have
some regard for world opinion.
    Perhaps the world considers:
    Korean War. fought to preserve the integrity of South Korea. The
North Koreans defeated,the US commander, McArthur, goes all the way to
the Yalu river and provokes China into the war.
    Vietnam. Lost twenty nine years ago. Commies didn't sweep into
India, Burma, Malaya, Thailand, San Fransisco, Chicago.........
     Now an endless mess in Iraq. We want to impose democracy on a
place that will (for reasons I have explained several times on this
forum) never be a democracy!!
      Perhaps we should get our act together and then expect
international support!!
Lamarr Edwards - 02 Oct 2004 13:31 GMT
Thorney -  I am sure you have a point, what is it?

The US has had many sucessful military interventions throughout the
world, beginning with the attack on the Barbary pirates in the very
early 1800's, in which we did not feel the need to meet a "global test"

A "global test" is a buzzword for an anti military  traitor senator to
have, so that a he will have a pre existant excuse NOT to use the
military unilaterially in the best interest of the US.

Interestingly, he said in the debate, that after !8 failed UN
resolutions re Iraq, in twelve years, he would have gone back to the UN
for another................, then, probably another ad infinitum.

I bet you really felt secure, when he looked you in the eye, and said "
I will hunt the terrorists down, and kill them" ? right ?

Go back, and take a look at his words, and record, he was telling
another bald faced lie.

If they are hanging out, and training with the support of the
government, of say, Yemen, do you think the UN will give him a passing
grade on his "global test" to attack Yemen ?  Of course not !  

So, we are back to firing cruise missles, and killing camels, the
democrat way to deal with terrorists. LE  
buckeye-ELO@nospam.net - 26 Feb 2005 13:23 GMT
For   Michael S. Morris

James Thomas Flexner, Page Smith, Dumas Malone, Joy Hakim, Samuel Eliot
Morison do not in any manner or shape change this

INAUGURAL HISTORY
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/inauguration/history.html
[EXCERPT]

Deeply rooted in tradition, the presidential inauguration marks a new
beginning for both the United States and its brand new president. Beginning
with General George Washington's 1789 inauguration in New York City, many
presidents have added their own unique traditions that will continue into

2001.

The oath of office is the main focus of the inauguration ceremony and the
only part required by law. In Article II, Section 1, of the U.S.
Constitution, the founding fathers provided an oath of office for the
President-elect's official swearing in. This 35-word vow has not changed
since the 18th century.

"I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the  Office of
President of the United States, and will try to the best of my ability, to
preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

George Washington added the phrase "so help me God" to the end of his oath,
and almost every president has added it since. He also followed his
swearing-in with the first inaugural address -- another tradition most
presidents have also adopted.
***********************************************************************************
in light of your position, i.e. SHMG was, is not widely known, etc. explain
this

2001

A USSC OPINION
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=mo&vol=/supreme/022001/&i
nvol=2021301_101

When George Washington took the first oath of office as president in 1789,
he recited the words prescribed in article II, section 1, of the United
States Constitution(FN11) and then added these words, which are not found
in the Constitution, "I swear, so help me God."(FN12) President
Washington's words showed a belief in God and a prayer for His help. The
first President's example has been followed by his successors.(FN13) In
addition to the oath of our first president and all of his successors, the
phrase "So help me God," and similar references to the Almighty, have been
a part of our courtroom oaths, our laws, and other public rituals. See
generally Zorach v. Clauson, 343 U.S. 306, 312-13 (1952); School Dist. of
Abington Township v. Schempp, 374 U.S. 203, 214 (1963).(FN14)
FN11. The President's oath, which is found in the last paragraph of
article II, section 1, states: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will
faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will,
to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of
the United States."
FN12. Steven B. Epstein, Rethinking the Constitutionality of Ceremonial
Deism, 96 Colum. L. Rev. 2083, 2110 (1996) (citing Martin J. Medhurst, "God
Bless the President": The Rhetoric of Inaugural Prayer 61 (1980)
(unpublished Ph.D. dissertation, Pennsylvania State University)).
FN13.  Epstein, supra note 12, at 2111.
SOURCE: Opinion -- Supreme Court of Missouri,   Oliver  v. State Tax
Commission of Missouri,  Case Number: SC82412 Handdown Date: 02/13/2001
*************************************************************************************
AND THIS (claims SHMG was said by Washington)
FN12. Steven B. Epstein, Rethinking the Constitutionality of Ceremonial
Deism, 96 Colum. L. Rev. 2083, 2110 (1996) (citing Martin J. Medhurst, "God
Bless the President": The Rhetoric of Inaugural Prayer 61 (1980)
(unpublished Ph.D. dissertation, Pennsylvania State University)).

AND THIS (claims SHMG was said by Washington)
From Duche to Provoost: The birth of Inaugural Prayer, by Martin J.
Medhurst. Journal of Church and State, Volume 24,
Autumn 1982, Number 3, pp 573-588)
****************************************************************************
TO BE CONTINUED
 
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