US WWII Reports - NO Gas Chambers
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B. H. Cramer - 28 Jun 2008 13:35 GMT by Theodore J. O'Keefe
Nothing has been more effective in establishing the authenticity of the Holocaust story in the minds of Americans than the terrible scenes US troops discovered when they entered German concentration camps at the close of World War II.
At Dachau, Buchenwald, Dora, Mauthausen, and other work and detention camps, horrified US infantrymen encountered heaps of dead and dying inmates, emaciated and diseased. Survivors told them hair-raising stories of torture and slaughter, and backed up their claims by showing the GIs crematory ovens, alleged execution gas chambers, supposed implements of torture, and even shrunken heads and lampshades, gloves, and handbags purportedly made from skin flayed from dead inmates.
US government authorities, mindful that many Americans who remembered the atrocity stories fed them during World War I still doubted the Allied propaganda directed against the Hitler regime, resolved to "document" what the GIs had found in the camps. Prominent newsmen and politicians were flown in to see the harrowing evidence, while the US Army Signal Corps filmed and photographed the scenes for posterity. Famous journalist Edward R. Murrow reported, in tones of horror, but no longer of disbelief, what he had been told and shown, and Dachau and Buchenwald were branded on the hearts and minds of the American populace as names of infamy unmatched in the sad and bloody history of this planet.
For Americans, what was "discovered" at the camps -- the dead and the diseased, the terrible stories of the inmates, all the props of torture and terror -- became the basis not simply of a transitory propaganda campaign but of the conviction that, yes, it was true: the Germans did exterminate six million Jews, most of them in lethal gas chambers.
What the GIs found was used, by way of films that were mandatory viewing for the vanquished populace of Germany, to "re-educate" the German people by destroying their national pride and their will to a united, independent national state, imposing in their place overwhelming feelings of collective guilt and political impotence. And when the testimony, and the verdict, of the Nuremberg Tribunal incorporated most, if not all, of the horror stories Americans were told about Dachau, Buchenwald, and other places captured by the US Army, the Holocaust could pass for one of the most documented, one of the most authenticated, one of the most proven historical episodes in the human record.
A Different Reality
But it is known today that, very soon after the liberation of the camps, American authorities were aware that the real story of the camps was quite different from the one in which they were coaching military public information officers, government spokesmen, politicians, journalists, and other mouthpieces.
When American and British forces overran western and central Germany in the spring of 1945, they were followed by troops charged with discovering and securing any evidence of German war crimes.
Among them was Dr. Charles Larson, one of America's leading forensic pathologists, who was assigned to the US Army's Judge Advocate General's Department. As part of a US War Crimes Investigation Team, Dr. Larson performed autopsies at Dachau and some twenty other German camps, examining on some days more than 100 corpses. After his grim work at Dachau, he was questioned for three days by US Army prosecutors.
Dr. Larson's findings? In an 1980 newspaper interview he said: "What we've heard is that six million Jews were exterminated. Part of that is a hoax." And what part was the hoax? Dr. Larson, who told his biographer that to his knowledge he "was the only forensic pathologist on duty in the entire European Theater" of Allied military operations, confirmed that "never was a case of poison gas uncovered."
Typhus, Not Poison Gas
If not by gassing, how did the unfortunate victims at Dachau, Buchenwald and Bergen-Belsen perish? Were they tortured to death or deliberately starved? The answers to these questions are known as well.
As Dr. Larson and other Allied medical men discovered, the chief cause of death at Dachau, Belsen and the other camps was disease, above all typhus, an old and terrible scourge of mankind that until recently flourished in places where populations were crowded together in circumstances where public health measures were unknown or had broken down. Such was the case in the overcrowded internment camps in Germany at war's end, where, despite such measures as systematic delousing, quarantine of the sick and cremation of the dead, the virtual collapse of Germany's food, transport, and public health systems led to catastrophe.
Perhaps the most authoritative statement of the facts as to typhus and mortality in the camps has been made by Dr. John E. Gordon, M.D., Ph.D., a professor of preventive medicine and epidemiology at the Harvard University School of Public Health, who was with US forces in Germany in 1945. Dr. Gordon reported in 1948 that "The outbreaks in concentration camps and prisons made up the great bulk of typhus infection encountered in Germany." Dr. Gordon summarized the causes for the outbreaks as follows:
Germany in the spring months of April and May [1945] was an astounding sight, a mixture of humanity travelling this way and that, homeless, often hungry and carrying typhus with them ...Germany was in chaos. The destruction of whole cities and the path left by advancing armies produced a disruption of living conditions contributing to the spread of the disease. Sanitation was low grade, public utilities were seriously disrupted, food supply and food distribution was poor, housing was inadequate and order and discipline were everywhere lacking. Still more important, a shifting of populations was occurring such as few countries and few times have experienced.
Dr. Gordon's findings are corroborated by Dr. Russell Barton, today a psychiatrist of international repute, who entered Bergen-Belsen with British forces as a young medical student in 1945. Barton, who volunteered to care for the diseased survivors, testified under sworn oath in a Toronto courtroom in 1985 that "Thousands of prisoners who died at the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp during World War II weren't deliberately starved to death but died from a rash of diseases."
Dr. Barton further testified that on entering the camp he had credited stories of deliberate starvation but decided such stories were untrue after inspecting the well equipped kitchens and the meticulously maintained ledgers, dating back to 1942, of food cooked and dispensed each day.
Despite noisily publicized claims and widespread popular notions to the contrary, no researcher has been able to document a German policy of extermination through starvation in the German camps.
No 'Human Skin' Lampshades
What of the ghoulish stories of concentration camp inmates skinned for their tattoos, flayed to make lampshades and handbags, or other artifacts? What of the innumerable "torture racks," "meathooks," whipping posts, gallows, and other tools of torment and death that are reported to have abounded at every German camp? These allegations, and even more grotesque ones proffered by Soviet prosecutors, found their way into the record at Nuremberg.
The lampshade and tattooed-skin charges were made against Ilse Koch, dubbed by journalists the "Bitch of Buchenwald," who was reported to have furnished her house with objects manufactured from the tanned hides of luckless inmates.
But General Lucius Clay, military governor of the US zone of occupied Germany, who reviewed her case in 1948, told his superiors in Washington: "There is no convincing evidence that she [Ilse Koch] selected inmates for extermination in order to secure tattooed skins or that she possessed any articles made of human skin." In an interview General Clay gave years later, he stated about the material for the infamous lampshades: "Well, it turned out actually that it was goat flesh. But at the trial it was still human flesh. It was almost impossible for her to have gotten a fair trial." Ilse Koch hanged herself in a German jail in 1967.
It would be tedious to itemize and refute the thousands of bizarre claims as to Nazi atrocities. That there were instances of German cruelty, however, is clear from the testimony of Dr. Konrad Morgen, a legal investigator attached to the Reich Criminal Police, whose statements on the witness stand at Nuremberg have never been challenged by proponents of the Jewish Holocaust story. Dr. Morgen informed the court that he had been given full authority by Heinrich Himmler, commander of Hitler's SS and the dread Gestapo, to enter any German concentration camp and investigate instances of cruelty and corruption on the part of camp personnel. As he explained in sworn testimony at Nuremberg, Dr. Morgen investigated 800 such cases, resulting in more than 200 convictions. Punishments included the death penalty for the worst offenders, including Hermann Florstedt, commandant of Lublin (Majdanek), and Karl Koch (Ilse's husband), commandant of Buchenwald.
While German camp commandants in certain cases did inflict physical punishment, such acts had to be approved by authorities in Berlin, and it was required that a camp physician first certify the good health of the prisoner to be disciplined, and then be on hand at the actual beating. After all, throughout most of the war the camps were important centers of industrial activity. The good health and morale of the prisoners was critical to the German war effort, as is evidenced in a January 1943 order issued by SS General Richard Glücks, chief of the office that supervised the concentration camps. It held the camp commanders "personally responsible for exhausting every possibility to preserve the physical strength of the detainees." Camp Survivors: Merely Victims? US Army investigators, working at Buchenwald and other camps, quickly ascertained what was common knowledge among veteran inmates: that the worst offenders, the cruelest denizens of the camps, were not the guards but the prisoners themselves. Common criminals of the same stripe as those who populate US prisons today committed many villainies, particularly when they held positions of authority, and fanatical Communists, highly organized to combat their many political enemies among the inmates, eliminated their foes with Stalinist ruthlessness. Two US Army investigators at Buchenwald, Egon W. Fleck and Edward A. Tenenbaum, carefully investigated circumstances in the camp before its liberation. In a detailed report submitted to their superiors, they revealed, in the words of Alfred Toombs, their commander, who wrote a preface to the report, "how the prisoners themselves organized a deadly terror within the Nazi terror."
Fleck and Tenenbaum described the power exercised by criminals and Communists as follows:
The trusties, who in time became almost exclusively Communist Germans, had the power of life and death over all other inmates. They could sentence a man or a group to almost certain death ... The Communist trusties were directly responsible for a large part of the brutalities at Buchenwald.
Colonel Donald B. Robinson, chief historian of the American military government in Germany, summarized the Fleck-Tenenbaum report in an article published in an American magazine shortly after the war. Colonel Robinson wrote succinctly of the American investigators' findings: "It appeared that the prisoners who agreed with the Communists ate; those who didn't starved to death."
Additional corroboration of inmate brutality has been provided by Ellis E. Spackman, who, as Chief of Counter-Intelligence Arrests and Detentions for the US Seventh Army, was involved in the liberation of Dachau. Spackman, later a professor of history at San Bernardino Valley College in California, wrote in 1966 that at Dachau "the prisoners were the actual instruments that inflicted the barbarities on their fellow prisoners."
'Gas Chambers'
In December 1944 US Army officers Colonel Paul Kirk and Lt. Colonel Edward J. Gully inspected the German concentration camp at Struthof-Natzweiler in Alsace. They submitted their findings to their superiors at the headquarters of the US 6th Army Group, which subsequently forwarded their report to the US War Crimes Division. While, significantly, the full text of their report has never been published, it has been revealed, by a historian supportive of Holocaust claims, that the two investigators were careful to characterize equipment exhibited to them by French informants as a "so-called lethal gas chamber," and to claim it was "allegedly used as a lethal gas chamber." (Emphasis added)
Both the careful phraseology of the Natzweiler report, and its effective suppression, stand in stark contrast to the credulity, the confusion, and the blaring publicity that accompanied official reports of alleged gas chambers at Dachau. At first, a US Army photo depicting a GI gazing at a steel door marked with a skull and crossbones and the German words for: "Caution! Gas! Mortal danger! Don't open!," was identified as showing the murder weapon.
Later, however, it was evidently decided that the apparatus in question was merely a standard delousing chamber for clothing, and another alleged gas chamber, this one cunningly disguised as a shower room, was exhibited to American congressmen and journalists as the site where thousands breathed their last. While there exist numerous reports in the press as to the operation of this second "gas chamber," no official report by trained Army investigators has yet surfaced to reconcile such problems as the function of the shower heads: Were they "dummies," or did lethal cyanide gas stream through them? (Each theory has appreciable support in journalistic and historiographical literature.)
As with Dachau, so with Buchenwald, Bergen-Belsen, and the other camps liberated by the Allies in western Germany. There was no end of propaganda about "gas chambers," "gas ovens," and the like, but so far not a single detailed description of the murder weapon and its function, not a single report of the kind that is mandatory for the successful prosecution of any assault or murder case in America at that time and today, has come to light.
Furthermore, a number of Holocaust authorities have now publicly decreed that there were no gassings, no extermination camps in Germany after all. (We are now told that "gassing" and "extermination" camps were located exclusively in what is now Poland, in areas captured by the Soviet Red Army and made off-limits to western investigators.)
Dr. Martin Broszat of the Munich-based Institute for Contemporary History, which is funded by the German government, stated categorically in a 1960 letter to the German weekly Die Zeit: "Neither in Dachau nor in Bergen-Belsen nor in Buchenwald were Jews or other prisoners gassed." Professional "Nazi hunter" Simon Wiesenthal stated in 1975 and again in 1993 that "there were no extermination camps on German soil."
Dachau "gas chamber" No. 2, which was once presented to a stunned and grieving world as a weapon that claimed hundreds of thousands of lives, is now described in the brochure issued to tourists at the modern Dachau "memorial site" in these words: "This gas chamber, camouflaged as a shower room, was not used."
The Propaganda Intensifies
More than 50 years after American troops entered Dachau, Buchenwald and other German camps, and trained American investigators established the facts as to what had gone on in them, the government in Washington, the entertainment media in Hollywood, and the print media in New York continue to churn out millions of words and images annually on the horrors of the camps and the infamy of the Holocaust. Despite the fact that, with the exception of the defeated Confederacy, no enemy of America has ever so suffered so complete and devastating defeat as did Germany in 1945, the mass media and the politicians and bureaucrats behave as if Hitler, his troops, and his concentration camps continue to exist in an eternal present, and our opinion makers continue to distort, through ignorance or malice, the facts about the camps.
Time for the Truth
It is time that the government and the professional historians reveal the facts about Dachau, Buchenwald and the other camps. It is time they let the American public know how the inmates died, and how they didn't die. It is time that the claims of mass murder by gassing are clarified and investigated in the same manner as any other claims of murder. It is time that the free ride certain groups have enjoyed as the result of unchallenged Holocaust claims be terminated, just as it is time to end the scapegoating of other groups, including Germans, eastern Europeans, the Roman Catholic hierarchy, and the wartime leadership of America and Britain, either for their alleged role in the Holocaust or their supposed failure to stop it.
Above all, it is time that the citizens of this great Republic have the facts about the camps, facts they have a right to know, a right that is fundamental to the exercise of their authority and their will in the governance of their country. As citizens and as taxpayers, Americans of all ethnic backgrounds, of all faiths, have a basic right and an overriding interest in determining the facts of incidents that are deemed by those in positions of power to be significant in determining America's foreign and educational policy, as well as its selection of past events to be memorialized in our civic life.
Today the alleged facts of the Holocaust are at issue all over the civilized world. The truth will be decided only by recourse to the facts, in the public forum: not by concealing the facts, denying the truth, stonewalling reality. The truth will out, and it is time the government of this country, and governments and international bodies throughout the world, make public the evidence of what actually transpired in the German concentration camps in the years 1933-1945, so that we may put paid to the lies, without fear or favor, and carry out the work of reconciliation and renewal that is and must be the granite foundation of mutual tolerance between peoples and of a peace based on justice.
Summary The conclusions of the early US Army investigations as to the truth about the wartime German concentration camps have since been corroborated by all subsequent investigators and can be summarized:
1.The harrowing scenes of dead and dying inmates were not the result of a German policy of "extermination," but rather the result of epidemics of typhus and other disease brought about largely by the effects of Allied aerial attacks. 2.Stories of Nazi supercriminals and sadists who turned Jews and others into handbags and lampshades for their private profit or amusement were sick lies or diseased fantasies; indeed, the German authorities punished corruption and cruelty on the part of camp commanders and guards. 3.On the other hand, portrayals of the newly liberated inmates as saints and martyrs of Hitlerism were quite often very far from the truth; indeed, most of the brutalities inflicted on camp detainees were the work of their fellow prisoners, in contravention of German policy and German orders. 4.The alleged homicidal showers and gas chambers were used either for bathing camp inmates or delousing their clothes; the claim that they were used to murder Jews or other human beings is a contemptible fabrication. Orthodox historians and professional "Nazi-hunters" have quietly dropped claims that inmates were gassed at Dachau, Buchenwald and other camps in Germany. They continue, however, to keep silent regarding the lies about Dachau and Buchenwald, as well as to evade an open discussion of the evidence for homicidal gassing at Auschwitz and the other camps captured by the Soviets.
Institute For Historical Review Post Office Box 2739 Newport Beach, California 92659
halle - 28 Jun 2008 13:36 GMT B. H. Cramer:
> Holocaust What a truly vile, despicable blood libel against White People.
The jew is a bloodsucking parasite. The Eternal Jew.
Frank Arthur - 28 Jun 2008 14:34 GMT > B. H. Cramer: >> Holocaust > > What a truly vile, despicable blood libel against White People. > > The jew is a bloodsucking parasite. The Eternal Jew. Jesus Christ was born, lived and died a Jew.
halle - 28 Jun 2008 14:39 GMT Frank Arthur ulosti verbaalisesti servulle näin:
>> B. H. Cramer: >>> Holocaust [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Jesus Christ was born, lived and died a Jew. Ain't that the truth. Jew-stianity is another tool of the Eternal Jew.
I'll Always Be Here - 28 Jun 2008 22:50 GMT > Institute For Historical Review How much did they pay you to post this mr cramer?
Joe Bruno - 29 Jun 2008 00:29 GMT > by Theodore J. O'Keefe <deleted IHR bullshit> Commandant Hoess of Auschwitz says different:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.revisionism/msg/1092b3a014a97745
B. H. Cramer - 29 Jun 2008 01:21 GMT On Jun 28, 5:35 am, "B. H. Cramer" <Iyam...@alltimes.yep> wrote:
> by Theodore J. O'Keefe
>Commandant Hoess of Auschwitz says different: Of course he did. He said whatever they told him to say. That's what happens when you have your balls in a vice for days on end. (Something you'll never know about b'luto - you've go no balls)
US WWII Reports - NO Gas Chambers by Theodore J. O'Keefe
Nothing has been more effective in establishing the authenticity of the Holocaust story in the minds of Americans than the terrible scenes US troops discovered when they entered German concentration camps at the close of World War II.
At Dachau, Buchenwald, Dora, Mauthausen, and other work and detention camps, horrified US infantrymen encountered heaps of dead and dying inmates, emaciated and diseased. Survivors told them hair-raising stories of torture and slaughter, and backed up their claims by showing the GIs crematory ovens, alleged execution gas chambers, supposed implements of torture, and even shrunken heads and lampshades, gloves, and handbags purportedly made from skin flayed from dead inmates.
US government authorities, mindful that many Americans who remembered the atrocity stories fed them during World War I still doubted the Allied propaganda directed against the Hitler regime, resolved to "document" what the GIs had found in the camps. Prominent newsmen and politicians were flown in to see the harrowing evidence, while the US Army Signal Corps filmed and photographed the scenes for posterity. Famous journalist Edward R. Murrow reported, in tones of horror, but no longer of disbelief, what he had been told and shown, and Dachau and Buchenwald were branded on the hearts and minds of the American populace as names of infamy unmatched in the sad and bloody history of this planet.
For Americans, what was "discovered" at the camps -- the dead and the diseased, the terrible stories of the inmates, all the props of torture and terror -- became the basis not simply of a transitory propaganda campaign but of the conviction that, yes, it was true: the Germans did exterminate six million Jews, most of them in lethal gas chambers.
What the GIs found was used, by way of films that were mandatory viewing for the vanquished populace of Germany, to "re-educate" the German people by destroying their national pride and their will to a united, independent national state, imposing in their place overwhelming feelings of collective guilt and political impotence. And when the testimony, and the verdict, of the Nuremberg Tribunal incorporated most, if not all, of the horror stories Americans were told about Dachau, Buchenwald, and other places captured by the US Army, the Holocaust could pass for one of the most documented, one of the most authenticated, one of the most proven historical episodes in the human record.
A Different Reality
But it is known today that, very soon after the liberation of the camps, American authorities were aware that the real story of the camps was quite different from the one in which they were coaching military public information officers, government spokesmen, politicians, journalists, and other mouthpieces.
When American and British forces overran western and central Germany in the spring of 1945, they were followed by troops charged with discovering and securing any evidence of German war crimes.
Among them was Dr. Charles Larson, one of America's leading forensic pathologists, who was assigned to the US Army's Judge Advocate General's Department. As part of a US War Crimes Investigation Team, Dr. Larson performed autopsies at Dachau and some twenty other German camps, examining on some days more than 100 corpses. After his grim work at Dachau, he was questioned for three days by US Army prosecutors.
Dr. Larson's findings? In an 1980 newspaper interview he said: "What we've heard is that six million Jews were exterminated. Part of that is a hoax." And what part was the hoax? Dr. Larson, who told his biographer that to his knowledge he "was the only forensic pathologist on duty in the entire European Theater" of Allied military operations, confirmed that "never was a case of poison gas uncovered."
Typhus, Not Poison Gas
If not by gassing, how did the unfortunate victims at Dachau, Buchenwald and Bergen-Belsen perish? Were they tortured to death or deliberately starved? The answers to these questions are known as well.
As Dr. Larson and other Allied medical men discovered, the chief cause of death at Dachau, Belsen and the other camps was disease, above all typhus, an old and terrible scourge of mankind that until recently flourished in places where populations were crowded together in circumstances where public health measures were unknown or had broken down. Such was the case in the overcrowded internment camps in Germany at war's end, where, despite such measures as systematic delousing, quarantine of the sick and cremation of the dead, the virtual collapse of Germany's food, transport, and public health systems led to catastrophe.
Perhaps the most authoritative statement of the facts as to typhus and mortality in the camps has been made by Dr. John E. Gordon, M.D., Ph.D., a professor of preventive medicine and epidemiology at the Harvard University School of Public Health, who was with US forces in Germany in 1945. Dr. Gordon reported in 1948 that "The outbreaks in concentration camps and prisons made up the great bulk of typhus infection encountered in Germany." Dr. Gordon summarized the causes for the outbreaks as follows:
Germany in the spring months of April and May [1945] was an astounding sight, a mixture of humanity travelling this way and that, homeless, often hungry and carrying typhus with them ...Germany was in chaos. The destruction of whole cities and the path left by advancing armies produced a disruption of living conditions contributing to the spread of the disease. Sanitation was low grade, public utilities were seriously disrupted, food supply and food distribution was poor, housing was inadequate and order and discipline were everywhere lacking. Still more important, a shifting of populations was occurring such as few countries and few times have experienced.
Dr. Gordon's findings are corroborated by Dr. Russell Barton, today a psychiatrist of international repute, who entered Bergen-Belsen with British forces as a young medical student in 1945. Barton, who volunteered to care for the diseased survivors, testified under sworn oath in a Toronto courtroom in 1985 that "Thousands of prisoners who died at the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp during World War II weren't deliberately starved to death but died from a rash of diseases."
Dr. Barton further testified that on entering the camp he had credited stories of deliberate starvation but decided such stories were untrue after inspecting the well equipped kitchens and the meticulously maintained ledgers, dating back to 1942, of food cooked and dispensed each day.
Despite noisily publicized claims and widespread popular notions to the contrary, no researcher has been able to document a German policy of extermination through starvation in the German camps.
No 'Human Skin' Lampshades
What of the ghoulish stories of concentration camp inmates skinned for their tattoos, flayed to make lampshades and handbags, or other artifacts? What of the innumerable "torture racks," "meathooks," whipping posts, gallows, and other tools of torment and death that are reported to have abounded at every German camp? These allegations, and even more grotesque ones proffered by Soviet prosecutors, found their way into the record at Nuremberg.
The lampshade and tattooed-skin charges were made against Ilse Koch, dubbed by journalists the "Bitch of Buchenwald," who was reported to have furnished her house with objects manufactured from the tanned hides of luckless inmates.
But General Lucius Clay, military governor of the US zone of occupied Germany, who reviewed her case in 1948, told his superiors in Washington: "There is no convincing evidence that she [Ilse Koch] selected inmates for extermination in order to secure tattooed skins or that she possessed any articles made of human skin." In an interview General Clay gave years later, he stated about the material for the infamous lampshades: "Well, it turned out actually that it was goat flesh. But at the trial it was still human flesh. It was almost impossible for her to have gotten a fair trial." Ilse Koch hanged herself in a German jail in 1967.
It would be tedious to itemize and refute the thousands of bizarre claims as to Nazi atrocities. That there were instances of German cruelty, however, is clear from the testimony of Dr. Konrad Morgen, a legal investigator attached to the Reich Criminal Police, whose statements on the witness stand at Nuremberg have never been challenged by proponents of the Jewish Holocaust story. Dr. Morgen informed the court that he had been given full authority by Heinrich Himmler, commander of Hitler's SS and the dread Gestapo, to enter any German concentration camp and investigate instances of cruelty and corruption on the part of camp personnel. As he explained in sworn testimony at Nuremberg, Dr. Morgen investigated 800 such cases, resulting in more than 200 convictions. Punishments included the death penalty for the worst offenders, including Hermann Florstedt, commandant of Lublin (Majdanek), and Karl Koch (Ilse's husband), commandant of Buchenwald.
While German camp commandants in certain cases did inflict physical punishment, such acts had to be approved by authorities in Berlin, and it was required that a camp physician first certify the good health of the prisoner to be disciplined, and then be on hand at the actual beating. After all, throughout most of the war the camps were important centers of industrial activity. The good health and morale of the prisoners was critical to the German war effort, as is evidenced in a January 1943 order issued by SS General Richard Glücks, chief of the office that supervised the concentration camps. It held the camp commanders "personally responsible for exhausting every possibility to preserve the physical strength of the detainees." Camp Survivors: Merely Victims? US Army investigators, working at Buchenwald and other camps, quickly ascertained what was common knowledge among veteran inmates: that the worst offenders, the cruelest denizens of the camps, were not the guards but the prisoners themselves. Common criminals of the same stripe as those who populate US prisons today committed many villainies, particularly when they held positions of authority, and fanatical Communists, highly organized to combat their many political enemies among the inmates, eliminated their foes with Stalinist ruthlessness. Two US Army investigators at Buchenwald, Egon W. Fleck and Edward A. Tenenbaum, carefully investigated circumstances in the camp before its liberation. In a detailed report submitted to their superiors, they revealed, in the words of Alfred Toombs, their commander, who wrote a preface to the report, "how the prisoners themselves organized a deadly terror within the Nazi terror."
Fleck and Tenenbaum described the power exercised by criminals and Communists as follows:
The trusties, who in time became almost exclusively Communist Germans, had the power of life and death over all other inmates. They could sentence a man or a group to almost certain death ... The Communist trusties were directly responsible for a large part of the brutalities at Buchenwald.
Colonel Donald B. Robinson, chief historian of the American military government in Germany, summarized the Fleck-Tenenbaum report in an article published in an American magazine shortly after the war. Colonel Robinson wrote succinctly of the American investigators' findings: "It appeared that the prisoners who agreed with the Communists ate; those who didn't starved to death."
Additional corroboration of inmate brutality has been provided by Ellis E. Spackman, who, as Chief of Counter-Intelligence Arrests and Detentions for the US Seventh Army, was involved in the liberation of Dachau. Spackman, later a professor of history at San Bernardino Valley College in California, wrote in 1966 that at Dachau "the prisoners were the actual instruments that inflicted the barbarities on their fellow prisoners."
'Gas Chambers'
In December 1944 US Army officers Colonel Paul Kirk and Lt. Colonel Edward J. Gully inspected the German concentration camp at Struthof-Natzweiler in Alsace. They submitted their findings to their superiors at the headquarters of the US 6th Army Group, which subsequently forwarded their report to the US War Crimes Division. While, significantly, the full text of their report has never been published, it has been revealed, by a historian supportive of Holocaust claims, that the two investigators were careful to characterize equipment exhibited to them by French informants as a "so-called lethal gas chamber," and to claim it was "allegedly used as a lethal gas chamber." (Emphasis added)
Both the careful phraseology of the Natzweiler report, and its effective suppression, stand in stark contrast to the credulity, the confusion, and the blaring publicity that accompanied official reports of alleged gas chambers at Dachau. At first, a US Army photo depicting a GI gazing at a steel door marked with a skull and crossbones and the German words for: "Caution! Gas! Mortal danger! Don't open!," was identified as showing the murder weapon.
Later, however, it was evidently decided that the apparatus in question was merely a standard delousing chamber for clothing, and another alleged gas chamber, this one cunningly disguised as a shower room, was exhibited to American congressmen and journalists as the site where thousands breathed their last. While there exist numerous reports in the press as to the operation of this second "gas chamber," no official report by trained Army investigators has yet surfaced to reconcile such problems as the function of the shower heads: Were they "dummies," or did lethal cyanide gas stream through them? (Each theory has appreciable support in journalistic and historiographical literature.)
As with Dachau, so with Buchenwald, Bergen-Belsen, and the other camps liberated by the Allies in western Germany. There was no end of propaganda about "gas chambers," "gas ovens," and the like, but so far not a single detailed description of the murder weapon and its function, not a single report of the kind that is mandatory for the successful prosecution of any assault or murder case in America at that time and today, has come to light.
Furthermore, a number of Holocaust authorities have now publicly decreed that there were no gassings, no extermination camps in Germany after all. (We are now told that "gassing" and "extermination" camps were located exclusively in what is now Poland, in areas captured by the Soviet Red Army and made off-limits to western investigators.)
Dr. Martin Broszat of the Munich-based Institute for Contemporary History, which is funded by the German government, stated categorically in a 1960 letter to the German weekly Die Zeit: "Neither in Dachau nor in Bergen-Belsen nor in Buchenwald were Jews or other prisoners gassed." Professional "Nazi hunter" Simon Wiesenthal stated in 1975 and again in 1993 that "there were no extermination camps on German soil."
Dachau "gas chamber" No. 2, which was once presented to a stunned and grieving world as a weapon that claimed hundreds of thousands of lives, is now described in the brochure issued to tourists at the modern Dachau "memorial site" in these words: "This gas chamber, camouflaged as a shower room, was not used."
The Propaganda Intensifies
More than 50 years after American troops entered Dachau, Buchenwald and other German camps, and trained American investigators established the facts as to what had gone on in them, the government in Washington, the entertainment media in Hollywood, and the print media in New York continue to churn out millions of words and images annually on the horrors of the camps and the infamy of the Holocaust. Despite the fact that, with the exception of the defeated Confederacy, no enemy of America has ever so suffered so complete and devastating defeat as did Germany in 1945, the mass media and the politicians and bureaucrats behave as if Hitler, his troops, and his concentration camps continue to exist in an eternal present, and our opinion makers continue to distort, through ignorance or malice, the facts about the camps.
Time for the Truth
It is time that the government and the professional historians reveal the facts about Dachau, Buchenwald and the other camps. It is time they let the American public know how the inmates died, and how they didn't die. It is time that the claims of mass murder by gassing are clarified and investigated in the same manner as any other claims of murder. It is time that the free ride certain groups have enjoyed as the result of unchallenged Holocaust claims be terminated, just as it is time to end the scapegoating of other groups, including Germans, eastern Europeans, the Roman Catholic hierarchy, and the wartime leadership of America and Britain, either for their alleged role in the Holocaust or their supposed failure to stop it.
Above all, it is time that the citizens of this great Republic have the facts about the camps, facts they have a right to know, a right that is fundamental to the exercise of their authority and their will in the governance of their country. As citizens and as taxpayers, Americans of all ethnic backgrounds, of all faiths, have a basic right and an overriding interest in determining the facts of incidents that are deemed by those in positions of power to be significant in determining America's foreign and educational policy, as well as its selection of past events to be memorialized in our civic life.
Today the alleged facts of the Holocaust are at issue all over the civilized world. The truth will be decided only by recourse to the facts, in the public forum: not by concealing the facts, denying the truth, stonewalling reality. The truth will out, and it is time the government of this country, and governments and international bodies throughout the world, make public the evidence of what actually transpired in the German concentration camps in the years 1933-1945, so that we may put paid to the lies, without fear or favor, and carry out the work of reconciliation and renewal that is and must be the granite foundation of mutual tolerance between peoples and of a peace based on justice.
Summary The conclusions of the early US Army investigations as to the truth about the wartime German concentration camps have since been corroborated by all subsequent investigators and can be summarized:
1.The harrowing scenes of dead and dying inmates were not the result of a German policy of "extermination," but rather the result of epidemics of typhus and other disease brought about largely by the effects of Allied aerial attacks. 2.Stories of Nazi supercriminals and sadists who turned Jews and others into handbags and lampshades for their private profit or amusement were sick lies or diseased fantasies; indeed, the German authorities punished corruption and cruelty on the part of camp commanders and guards. 3.On the other hand, portrayals of the newly liberated inmates as saints and martyrs of Hitlerism were quite often very far from the truth; indeed, most of the brutalities inflicted on camp detainees were the work of their fellow prisoners, in contravention of German policy and German orders. 4.The alleged homicidal showers and gas chambers were used either for bathing camp inmates or delousing their clothes; the claim that they were used to murder Jews or other human beings is a contemptible fabrication. Orthodox historians and professional "Nazi-hunters" have quietly dropped claims that inmates were gassed at Dachau, Buchenwald and other camps in Germany. They continue, however, to keep silent regarding the lies about Dachau and Buchenwald, as well as to evade an open discussion of the evidence for homicidal gassing at Auschwitz and the other camps captured by the Soviets.
Institute For Historical Review Post Office Box 2739 Newport Beach, California 92659
I'll Always Be Here - 29 Jun 2008 03:50 GMT > Of course he did. He said whatever they told him to say. That's what > happens when you have your balls in a vice for days on end. (Something > you'll never know about b'luto - you've go no balls) I've had to snip the rest of your skewed shite, benjji. It's just too, too saddening to see you make such a fool of yourself.
Joe Bruno - 29 Jun 2008 04:46 GMT On Jun 28, 7:50 pm, "I'll Always Be Here" <aussiess...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > Of course he did. He said whatever they told him to say. That's what > > happens when you have your balls in a vice for days on end. (Something > > you'll never know about b'luto - you've go no balls) > > I've had to snip the rest of your skewed shite, benjji. It's just too, too > saddening to see you make such a fool of yourself. Cramer's statement is silly. Hoess was called to the stand at Nuremberg as a witness for the defense. He was not on trial there. There was no need to torture him, since he appeared voluntarily to verify a statement made by his fellow SS man, Ernst Kaltenbrunner.
Cramer's claim to serving is the Australian Army is bullshit. It's obvious from his posts he does not understand either chain of command or military discipline. Every military on Earth punishes soldiers for disobedience of orders. Every military on Earth has a hierarchical structure, just like the Navy does.
If he had any "balls" , he would have risked his life for his country, like I did. Even in peacetime, being at sea is risky. Ships sink and sailors fall overboard. Ammunition explodes and there is always the danger of fire. Liars are by definition, cowards. They are afraid to face the truth.
B. H. Cramer - 29 Jun 2008 07:41 GMT On Jun 28, 7:50 pm, "I'll Always Be Here" <aussiess...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> "B. H. Cramer" <Iyam...@alltimes.yep> wrote > innews:WPGdnRYO7JPjSPvVnZ2dnUVZ_szinZ2d@giganews.com: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I've had to snip the rest of your skewed shite, benjji. It's just too, too > saddening to see you make such a fool of yourself.
>Cramer's statement is silly. Hoess was called to the stand at >Nuremberg as a witness for the defense. >He was not on trial there. There was no need to torture him, since he >appeared voluntarily >to verify a statement made by his fellow SS man, Ernst Kaltenbrunner.
>Cramer's claim to serving is the Australian Army is bullshit. And yet another lie from the pathologically lying b'luto.
>It's obvious from his posts he does not understand either chain of >command or military discipline. And another lie from b'luto.
>If he had any "balls" , he would have risked his life for his country, >like I did. BBWWWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You lying, chicken-sh.t, gutless jew c.nt. You didn't even volunteer to go to a combat zone. You spent your entire military "career" totally out of harms way.
You're a class "A" liar, b'luto and an even higher ranked fuckwit.
I'll Always Be Here - 30 Jun 2008 00:16 GMT > On Jun 28, 7:50 pm, "I'll Always Be Here" > <aussiess...@invalid.invalid> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > You lying, chicken-sh.t, gutless jew c.nt. You didn't even volunteer to > go to a combat zone. Did you?
You spent your entire military "career" totally out
> of harms way. > > You're a class "A" liar, b'luto and an even higher ranked fuckwit. Joe Bruno - 02 Jul 2008 19:24 GMT On Jun 29, 4:16 pm, "I'll Always Be Here" <aussiess...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > "Joe Bruno" <jbr...@indystart.com> wrote in message > > news:e631049f-9292-40b3-8ff7-4e4a3edb3b10 [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > You spent your entire military "career" totally out When I got on active duty in May of 1973, there was no "combat zone". The Vietnam War was over. Cramer's stupid statement is more proof that he never served in the military. You go where you are assigned. ROTFL!
I'll Always Be Here - 02 Jul 2008 19:59 GMT Joe Bruno <jbruno@indystart.com> wrote in news:7f48f676-45c1-41d5-93e6- f5b284653fc7@q24g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
> On Jun 29, 4:16 pm, "I'll Always Be Here" > <aussiess...@invalid.invalid> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > Cramer's stupid statement is more proof that he never served in the > military. You go where you are assigned. ROTFL! Don't you know that cramer volunteered for Gallipoli?
Joe Bruno - 03 Jul 2008 01:55 GMT On Jul 2, 11:59 am, "I'll Always Be Here" <aussiess...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Joe Bruno <jbr...@indystart.com> wrote in news:7f48f676-45c1-41d5-93e6- > f5b284653...@q24g2000prf.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Right, and I fought at Midway, before I was born.
I'll Always Be Here - 03 Jul 2008 03:35 GMT Joe Bruno <jbruno@indystart.com> wrote in news:46f9f506-0573-43af-aa61- 89e3ae7dfa8d@z24g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
> On Jul 2, 11:59 am, "I'll Always Be Here" > <aussiess...@invalid.invalid> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > > Right, and I fought at Midway, before I was born. That would certainly explain a lot.
B. H. Cramer - 04 Jul 2008 10:23 GMT On Jun 29, 4:16 pm, "I'll Always Be Here"
> > BBWWWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA > >> > You lying, chicken-sh.t, gutless jew c.nt. You didn't even volunteer to >> > go to a combat zone.
>When I got on active duty in May of 1973, there was no "combat zone". You could have volunteered earlier, chickenshit, gutless little jew c.nt.
NoSpamHere - 04 Jul 2008 10:26 GMT > You could have volunteered earlier, chickenshit, gutless little jew c.nt. As opposed to your "brave" aussie navy, huh?
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/oct2001/refu-o13.shtml "Australian navy fires on refugee boat".
I'll Always Be Here - 04 Jul 2008 19:57 GMT "B. H. Cramer" <Iyamhre@alltimes.yep> wrote in news:dL-dnZrYGK- FcfDVnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@giganews.com:
> On Jun 29, 4:16 pm, "I'll Always Be Here" > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > You could have volunteered earlier, chickenshit, gutless little jew c.nt. Did you volunteer for a combat zone?
RJ11 - 29 Jun 2008 07:03 GMT (snip "Holocaust revisionism" drivel)
In a memo written on September 8 1942, Kurt Prufer of the firm "Topf and Sons" stated that Auschwitz officials are not satisfied with a cremation capacity of 2,650 corpses per day, and "we should deliver more ovens as quickly as possible".
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/topf/
RJ.
ZULU - 29 Jun 2008 11:21 GMT The origin of the Gas Chambers HOAX, Rudolf VRBA the liar & Co, 1944's report
HOW ALL THAT STUFF BEGUN:
At the beginning, all the story was based on a report made by 4 fugitives from Auschwitz including the LIAR Rudolf Vrba. Even Pressac judged such report absurd and full of "mistakes".
<quote Zulu>
Churchill,like many others during and after W.W.II, was confused by the report coming from a famous liar named Rudolf Vrba.
That man was at the origin of "the first detailed account of Auschwitz" which deceived many people including Churchill.
Vrba was officially unmasked at the Zundel trial of Toronto in 1985.
Dr. Vrba was a witness of exceptional importance. One might even say about this trial in Toronto that the prosecution had found the means of recruiting 'Holocaust' expert number one in the person of Dr. Raul Hilberg, and witness number one in the person of Dr. Rudolf Vrba. The testimony of this latter gentleman had been one of the principal sources of the famous War Refugee Board Report on the German Extermination Camps - Auschwitz and Birkenau, published in November 1944 by the Executive Office of President Roosevelt.
Vrba's yarns were exploded with his 1985 cross-examination in the first Zündel trial. If one doubts this then one can read the transcript for himself.
http://www.vho.org/aaargh/engl/vrba1.html
NOw, when one examines what was that "War Refugee Board Report" from 4 Jewish liars (I suspect strongly there were communist propagandists) it is amazing that such forgery could have been taken seriously without any verification at that time with other sources including field's UK spies of Auschwitz's zone.
I don't have to make a critical analysis by myself, that job is made by Pressac although he put his velvet gloves to not qualify that report as "a lot of bullshit" because he was paid by the Klarsfelds' Foundation to write his book.
So, I can tell to you myself by viewing that list of lies and inventions vaguely based on actual installations at Birkenau that it is a real bunch of bullshit. However, historically it has some value, It can be considered the first step of the "gas chambers" Hoax launching on international level.
WE must not to be surprised, then, that Churchill didn't mentioned those "facts" on his WW II memories, the British Intelligence Service had made correctly his job before.
THE “WAR REFUGEE BOARD” REPORT OF NOVEMBER 1944
(A collective report based on the testimonies of Alfred WETZLER and Walter ROSENBERG [Rudolf Vrba], Czeslaw MORDOWICZ and Arwost ROSIN, and a Polish major.)
Extract
It is difficult to accept at face value the descriptions of the interiors of the undressing rooms and gas chambers, for the installations varied over time. Those of summer 1944 are well-known, for they have been described or sketched many times by former members of the Sonderkommando. On the other hand, those of the early days have virtually not been described at all. The witnesses may have described the strict truth — which already fluctuated according to the version — but I doubt this, since they never entered Krematorium II themselves, or they lied, which is also most unlikely in view of the exact details given elsewhere, or — and this is far more probable — they invented a little to fill in the gaps in a story whose ending they knew only too well.
....
"The witnesses may have described the strict truth — which already fluctuated according to the version"
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Complete analysis
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0459.htm
About Vrba the liar see "VRBA and BUNKER EDGES" story which pick that liar with his fingers in the pot of marmalade.
THat story is to confirm how much stupid was the affirmation of Vrba with his description concerning "apparent cement", "hook arms" and "monkeys" stories about that bunker [alleged gas chamber at Krema II, in fact a morgue labeled Leichenkeller 1 on ALL related technical drawings] and its so-called *edges*.
See the section of the *bunker" here and try to state how you could match that shape with the VRBA's LIE.
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0322.htm
The top of the *bunker* is about 1 m upon the ground and all is covered by earth but put your eyes especially on the the so-called "edges" which are remarkable.
LOL.
That's what I call to FACE TALES WITH FACTS.
Now, Remember the Bunker's shape you have seen and Read that passage of Vrba cross-examination at Toronto's trial.
<quote>
Now, Dr Vrba, just tell us once more how it was that you saw the S.S. man get up onto that bunker.
A. You mean I should repeat my statement from yesterday?
p. 1431
Q. Just the part about getting up to the bunker. Just describe that. Let me say to you that you said he put one can up on top ....
A. Yes. He first put the cans down because he brought them not with the carriage; he brought them under his arms, and there might have been five or six.
Q. Five or six cans.
A. Yes.
Q. And he picked one up and put it on top?
A. First one down and he started to put them up on top, and he crept up on it like a monkey, which surprised me.
Q. You say he hooked his arms over the edge and pulled himself up?
A. Yes. He sort of climbed up like a monkey.
Q. He had to reach up to the edge of the bunker?
A. Yes. Or, you know, to get a hold with his hand.
Q. Yeah.
A. And then he was climbing over the cement, which is rather smooth, but he managed to get up.
Q. Well, the last time you said he was rather sporty in the way he pulled himself up, yesterday.
A. Yes.
Q. Now, how high was it that he had to reach up?
p. 1432
A. I would say it was high enough that he couldn't walk up, but he could make an exercise.
Q. He could make an exercise?
THE COURT: Just a minute. Just stay where you are.
THE WITNESS: He had to make an effort. He couldn't walk up or jump up. It was higher than that.
Q. MR CHRISTIE: Did he have to reach higher than I am reaching now?
A. Possibly.
Q. And then, getting a hold of the edge of the roof and pulling himself up?
A. Possibly, but possibly his hands were in this position. This I wouldn't, after forty years, to say, or so. You can say, then, of course, if my memory is imbecile, but after forty years this difference in movement I couldn't guarantee.
Q. Well, I suggest to you, sir, that -- were you talking about a flat roof?
A. Yes.
Q. And this roof, you say, was fixed with vents, there were vents on it three?
A. Three or four.
Q. On your picture you drew three.
A. Yeah.
Q. And you led us to believe that he was rather sporty, and you remember yesterday you used that term?
A. Yes.
Q. You said it was unusual for an S.S.
p. 1433
man to do that?
A. Yes, because they had a pathological condition of his self dignity. And here I saw he didn't care.
Q. So am I clear in understanding you that the wall that he had to climb up on was a cement wall?
A. Yes.
Q. Are you sure of that?
A. Pretty sure.
Q. Pretty sure?
A. Yes. I didn't touch it, but as far as I can see cement from a distance of fifty yards, I would say pretty sure. I had no doubt in my mind about it.
</quote>
http://www.vho.org/aaargh/engl/vrba3.html
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
</quote Zulu>
RJ11 - 29 Jun 2008 11:22 GMT (snip)
lulu, why did one camp require 870 workers to burn corpses?
SS labor deployment report, listing 870 stokers in the Auschwitz- Birkenau crematoriums: http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/aug2-3.shtml
RJ.
ZULU - 29 Jun 2008 18:33 GMT > (snip) > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Birkenau crematoriums: > http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/aug2-3.shtml How many times must we repeat the always same answers?
Reason?
For the same reason which made that the operations continued 24 hours a day, with three shifts of prisoners on this task, changing every eight hours to disinfest-fect inmates' effects.
A huge attack of epidemics at the camp.
BTW please precise how many times was that number of workers at cremation. I am afraid you cherry picked up the most impressive number which ran very few time actually.
When Typhus epidemics were at their maximum, not only ovens worked hard but also the installations of prevention like Zentral Sauna:
THE EFFECTS DISINFECTION AND DISINFESTATION OPERATIONS
These operations as carried out at the Zentral Sauna were described in a letter sent to the Auschwitz Museum by a Czech former prisoner:
(Summary)
The procedures used were:
1. Hot air: Large and heavy effects, such as coats, outer clothing, etc.; 2. Steam: “light” effects, such as underclothes, shirts and any type of clothing considered as light, for example the “Zebra-Kleider,” prison uniforms. Blankets were also included in this group 3. Other: Leather objects, such au shoes, belts. etc. were disinfected using Karbol. Lysol or water containing hydrocyanic acid, a mixture obtained by pouring Zyklon-B crystals into the water.
This letter mentions that the operations continued 24 hours a day, with three shifts of prisoners on this task, changing every eight hours.
It will be noted that the methods described by this former prisoner were almost identical with those used in the US Army at that time [see following page],
...
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0065.htm
RJ11 - 29 Jun 2008 18:52 GMT >> Why did one camp require 870 workers to burn corpses? >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >> Can you answer? Yes or no?
> A huge attack of epidemics at the camp. Prove that there was a "huge attack of epidemics at the camp" in the summer of 1944.
Do you have any idea how many corpses 870 stokers can burn?
RJ.
ZULU - 02 Jul 2008 16:38 GMT >>> Why did one camp require 870 workers to burn corpses? >>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Do you have any idea how many corpses 870 stokers can burn? ANSWER # 5
See that line at page 3
53-B. Cleanup Detail. Au. II.New Disinf.Camp Unskilled workers 590
from the report: "Concentration Camp Auschwitz II. Labor force July 28, 1944" http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/labor-force/19440728/
So, how could we explain that 590 workers had to work only at the unique installation of Zentral Sauna during that day if not by an extraordinary activity on prophylactic measures.
Is it so strange that the same day 900 workers were distributed to work at 4 Kremas?
Isn't it an indication that epidemics were attacking hugely the camp during that period?
> Do you have any idea how many corpses 870 stokers can burn? A --> Not only burn, you have some logistic more and they were 4 crematoria working.
Such number of workers on such peak is not extraordinary if you make the distribution of workers according with the different tasks involved at each crematoria. Let see that point in details.
If we consider the same rush than at Zentral Sauna corresponding with continuous operation 24 hours a day, with three shifts of prisoners on this task, changing every eight hours.
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0065.htm
I will be fair, I'll take a total of 900 workers as mentioned on the report "Concentration Camp Auschwitz II. Labor force July 28, 1944" http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/labor-force/19440728/
But we have to go further in details. WE see on page 3 the lines 57-B to 61-B the distribution of workers in day & night teams.
If we take only day turn that means a distribution of workers as following
Krema II -> 109 Krema III-> 110 Krema IV -> 109 Krema V -> 109
Now, at each Krema you have to distribute those numbers in order to place workers at their different posts according to the task performed:
We could list the tasks as following
1- to collect and bring corpses to the morgues from different locations of the camp, 2- to dispose corpses at the morgues, 3- to undress corpses, 4- to pick up the gold teeth 5- to transport from morgues to ovens, 6- to transport coke from the main storage to the furnaces' room 7- to work at the furnaces (loading corpses, loading coke), 8- to make some diverse cleanness and maintenance tasks.
To be noted that under the term of "stokers" it appears that the SS grouped all workers in operation at the Kremas because on their sheets concerning available manpower (page 3 and others) there is any differentiation to name workers performing the necessary tasks listed above. We observe that at Krema II to V (That is the reference of numeration commonly used now whilst I to IV are mentioned on the sheet because the SS didn't count Krema I stopped at Auschwitz I). So, for SS at BIrkenau Kremas were listed fro I to IV while the modern count list them from II to V.
Now we have to make the distribution of workers for each task but stressing the point that at least 3 might be posted at each muffle to operate the furnaces.
That means for instance 45 workers posted directly at the ovens of Krema II and III and the remaining of 65 to be distributed on the 7 other tasks. That give us roughly an average of 9 to 10 workers by task which doesn't seem an exaggerated number.
A detail to be noted is the fact that, on this day, Krema V worked only during the day while it appears (line 61-B) a post named "Wood Unloaders Krem.IV" with 30 workers affected to that single task, numbered nº 6 of my tasks' list above. That gives us an idea of the numbers of workers that could be destined to each single task and my estimation of an average of 10 appears to be low to that specific one.
Regarding in details all those tasks and the number of workers needed to each one, Is that number of 900 extraordinary for a maximum peak at that camp?
And BTW, How many days were 900 stokers working at 4 Kremas of Birkenau? Have we other time sheets to compare and make an average of activity during a larger period? Have we some time sheet similar to the Gusen's one which could clear any doubt about the actual performance of the furnaces?
http://www.holocaust-history.org/gusen-cremation-timesheet/
Now, try to give us those data I am asking from long time ago about coke/wood consumption at that camp, or the time sheets corresponding with such activity that the way to clear that question. Any doubt will remain with those documents on hand. Any holok gave me an answer about their availability, so, I am waiting.
B--> When 900 people worked at crematorium, that same day thousands of other workers operated other installations like Zentral Sauna where 3 turns of 8 h on 24h were in place continuously (probably 800 workers see "53-B. Cleanup Detail. Au. II.New Disinf. Camp" page 3).
Other thousands of civilian workers from sub-contractors firms were there also. Try to verify ALL pages including those "900 workers".
See for instance people working there the same day
Grand Total: 15298
There were 13,466 people present that day at Birkenau occupied with some task and 1832 unemployed for several reasons (Medical Orderlies 113,Interrogation 10, Quarantine upon Admission 1324, Quarantine for Suspected Typhus 385).
Why put 1709 people in quarantine in a killing factory?
See that detail page 3
Employed:.....................B II/a...B II/d..B II/f..B II/g. a/ Skilled Workers....Pris.:....15......1,608.....50......61 b/ Unskilled Workers..Pris.:....41......6,381....136.....531 b/ Unskilled Workers...Gyp.:.....1..........6......0.......0
---Sums--------------------------57.....7,995......186....592 = total 8,830 workers
At that "Secret zone" and alleged "death camp" there were 8830 prisoners working including 7 unskilled gypsies.
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/labor-force/19440728/
So, as conclusion, 900 stokers may appear as impressive at first sight but when you have a more precise idea of what were the different tasks involved to operate the 4 Kremas as well as the distribution we have to do by day & night turns and by Krema, we arrive to numbers more acceptable for a normal operation and nothing seems extraordinary.
Moreover, we must consider that such number of workers was exceptional and the period involved with such heavy activity was not less than few days.
As usual, the holoks just show us the higher numbers, without any detail concerning the number of days related with such numbers, and omit periods of normal activity which certainly did not require day & night turns but only day turn like showed on the Gusen's time sheet.
Now, There are more interesting things that can be told with the document presented. We already have observed that when 900 workers were operating the Kremas, there were not less than 8,830 people working on the same zone.
That is certainly not very compatible with the version of the DOGMA which wants make us believe that only "sonderkommandos" were working at the Kremas' zone and, above all, that the operation was PERFORMED SECRETLY.
SO, a big SECRET to 8,830 people !!!!
Furthermore, if we add to such number of potential eyewitnesses the thousands of inmates who were continuously sent to Zentral Sauna to be disinfes-fected and returned to their place, we have there a big number of eyewitnesses who could not avoid seeing "the queues of 2000 jews at the doors of the gas chambers" every day.
That is the supposed big SECRET maintained by the SS. A SECRET not shared by few "sonderkommandos" as tells the dogma, but by more than TEN THOUSANDS of inmates every day !!! How many of them have told what they actually saw?
Joe Bruno - 29 Jun 2008 03:36 GMT > On Jun 28, 5:35 am, "B. H. Cramer" <Iyam...@alltimes.yep> wrote:> by Theodore J. O'Keefe > > <deleted IHR bullshit> > Commandant Hoess of Auschwitz says different: > > http://groups.google.com/group/alt.revisionism/msg/1092b3a014a97745 One of the rules of evidence is called "a statement against penal interest". It holds that, if anyone voluntarily makes a statement incriminating himself in a crime, that statement is presumed true unless proven otherwise.
If it isn't true, why would such a person subject himself to prosecution and punishment?
B. H. Cramer - 29 Jun 2008 04:02 GMT >One of the rules of evidence is called "a statement against penal >interest". >It holds that, if anyone voluntarily makes a statement incriminating >himself in a crime, >that statement is presumed true unless proven otherwise. Rules of evidence went by the way during the Nuremberg "trials" b'luto. Everything was taken on judicial notice. Very convenient for the yids, wot?
>If it isn't true, why would such a person subject himself to >prosecution and punishment? Normally one wouldn't. But when one's testicles are clamped in a vice for days on end, one generally gives one's interrogators what they want.
You really a fucktard, b'luto.
RJ11 - 29 Jun 2008 07:05 GMT (snip "Holocaust revisionism" drivel)
Let's try to stay focused here, "Cramer".
Please explain why your beloved Nazis killed these people. Thank you.
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen01.jpg http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen02.jpg http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//ohrdruf/images/ohrdruf-02.jpg http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//nordhausen/images/nordhausen-01.jpg http://www.chorale-populaire-de-paris.com/IMG/jpg/dachau.jpg http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//buchenwald/images/buchenwald01.jpg
RJ.
Joe Bruno - 29 Jun 2008 07:16 GMT > >One of the rules of evidence is called "a statement against penal > >interest". [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Everything was taken on judicial notice. > Very convenient for the yids, wot? ROTFL! Judicial notice is one form of evidence. It's included in the Federal Rules of Evidence, shown here:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/index.html
Do you ever check something out before you start babbling?
You are undoubtedly the clumsiest buffoon I've ever met.
B. H. Cramer - 29 Jun 2008 07:52 GMT On Jun 28, 8:02 pm, "B. H. Cramer" <Iyam...@alltimes.yep> wrote:
> "Joe Bruno" <jbr...@indystart.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Everything was taken on judicial notice. > Very convenient for the yids, wot?
>ROTFL! Judicial notice is one form of evidence. >It's included in the Federal Rules of Evidence, shown here: So?
RJ11 - 29 Jun 2008 07:00 GMT (snip)
A study of the cyanide compounds in the Auschwitz gas chambers can be found in
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/iffr/report.shtml
Some pointers to the investigation of mass graves in the death camps are provided below:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1673471.stm
Mass graves found at Nazi camp Researchers have discovered seven mass graves at the Sobibor Nazi death camp in north-eastern Poland.
The research team, which began its government-sponsored investigation in the summer, said the graves -- the largest of which is about half the size of a football pitch -- contain charred remains.
</quote>
A very elaborate study of the mass graves in the Belzec death camp was conducted a few years ago by a team of Polish archaeologists, headed by Prof. Andrzej Kola from the University of Torun in Poland, who is the author of more than 130 papers on archaeology. The team studied the site of the death camp, drilling 1,700 bore holes and investigating the core samples. The results are summarized in an 84 page report (ANDRZEJ KOLA: "BELZEC. THE NAZI CAMP FOR JEWS IN THE LIGHT OF ARCHAEOLOGICAL SOURCES. Excavations 1997-1999". ISBN 83-905590-6-4). The study has recovered human remains over a very large area, to a depth of up to six meters. The minimal estimate to the volume of the graves is 21,000 cubic meters.
RJ.
ZULU - 29 Jun 2008 11:19 GMT > (snip) > > A study of the cyanide compounds in the Auschwitz gas > chambers can be found in > > http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/iffr/report.shtml ABOUT THE GAS CHAMBERS HOAX
All I can say is that "ALL" eyewitnesses testimonies we have regarding "homicidal gassing operations", and that "ALL" represents in fact a VERY LITTLE quantity, are dubious because they contradict themselves and present too much technical incoherence and a lot of absurdities.
IN fact the standard modus operandi of alleged "gassing operations" at Auschwitz established by "assembling as well as possible" those "testimonies" from alleged "direct eyewitnesses" is per se a bunch of technical absurdities.
HCN (hydrocyanic acid or Prussic acid) A mortal gas evaporated from Zyclon B pellets:
The nazis knew very well how to use Zyclon B. Zyclon B was a powerful disinfestant used in all the Third Reich to perform prophylactic measures everywhere it was needed.
The Zyclon B pellets contained HCN (hydrocyanic acid) which evaporated at a speed depending on the temperature. See a figure which shows curves of the percentage of HCN evaporation at 4 different temperatures -18ºC, -6ºC, 0ºC and 15ºC in function of the time in hours.
http://vho.org/GB/Books/trr/Image19.gif
At the nazi camps and especially after 1941, the use of ZB became very intense because typhus epidemics were killing many people. Lice were the main vector to spread typhus epidemic and HCN was the best product to kill lice. All the clothes and shoes of the inmates were deloused in such rooms.
>From time to time barracks and morgues were treated with ZB too. Specific documents were released by the staff to the operators in order to perform a rational and correct use of Zyclon B. See for instance "Dokumente NI-9912" and the level of details of recommended procedures.
Richtlinien für die Anwendung von Blausäure (Zyklon) zur Ungeziefervertilgung (Entwesung).
TRANSLATION OF DOC. NO. NI 9912 Office of Chief of Counsel for War Crimes
DIRECTIVES FOR THE USE OF PRUSSIC ACID (ZYKLON FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF VERMIN (DISINFESTATION)
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0018.htm http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0019.htm
So, in order to delouse clothes and shoes, the nazis designed and built special rooms to perform gassing operations, they were true "gaskammer" (gas chamber). Those rooms are still in a good state of conservation at Auschwitz but the tourists are not able to see them. They are out of the "holoko$t tourist route".
Generally, those "gaskammer" fulfilled all requirements recommended by the firm DEGESCH, the Deutsche Gesellschaft für Schädlingsbekämpfung GmbH which manufactured the Zyclon in Germany. In particular, they were equipped with a specific machine which was able to introduce ZB pellets by using only one entry in the room. This machine was supplied also by DEGESCH.
That special equipment not only opened ZB cans automatically but even heated them at a temperature which allowed ALL HCN contained into the ZB pellets. So, according to the volume of the room which received the treatment and the concentration of the HCN gas required, the operators were able to calculate exactly the weight of ZB pellets to be used for each gassing operation.
That equipment was installed at Dachau and it is still in a good state to be seen there.
"The gas input device, manufactured by the DEGESCH company, was designed to automatically open a can of Zyklon-B pellets and dump them into a wire mesh basket. Hot air was then blown into the room to raise the temperature to 78.3 degrees Fahrenheit so that the poison gas would be released quickly and distributed throughout the room. Zyklon-B was the trade name for hydrocyanic acid (HCN) which was sold by DEGESCH. After gassing, the pellets were recovered from the wire-mesh box, put back into the can and returned to the manufacturer to be recycled."
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/GasChamber/disinfection02.html
The rooms had a special ventilation system which allowed a circulation of the atmosphere in order to distribute better the HCN into all the local.
NOw, the amazing thing is that the holokostians want us to believe that the nazis FORGOT ALL THEY KNEW ABOUT ZYCLON B when they decided to use it AT INDUSTRIAL SCALE in order to KILL MILLIONS OF PEOPLE.
Let see If we examine the supposed "homicidal gas chambers" of Krema I, II, III, IV and V at Auschwitz-Birkenau's camp:
1- They forgot to make a special ventilation into the room which allowed a circulation of the atmosphere. Furthermore the room had to be powerfully ventilated after the delousing to clean efficiently the air. They forgot it too.
---> At industrial scale, the alleged "gas chambers" were equipped with a ventilation motored by 3,5 HP while the attached "undressing room" were equipped with a ventilation motored by 7,5 HP, so nothing different for a room of half volume. Furthermore, they forgot to make the air circulate into the room.
----> At Krema IV and V, the "special ventilation" to evacuate the gas for "gas chambers" was depending on 6 little windows and of the good will of the wind to blow in the good direction.
2- they forgot that they had a DEGESCH machine available to introduce properly the pellets by one hole only into the room.
-> At industrial scale, the dummies made 4 [what 4 ???] holes in the ceiling of the alleged "gas chambers". Furthermore, as the holes weren't designed on the respective drawings, the morons had to break the 20 cm thick concrete ceiling to make them after the construction.
Even more amazing, at Krema IV and V the clowns introduced ZB through SIX "little windows" on the wall by climbing on ladders and bearing cans in their hands performing a true "circus act" as Pressac wrote:
<quote Pressac>
---> The difficulties
Although the operating sequence looks simple enough, it had become irrational and ridiculous. It was irrational to have the victims going from the central room to the gas chambers then being brought back, thus destroying the linear logic of the initial design. It was ridiculous to have an SS man in a gas mask balancing on his short ladder with a 1 kg can of Zyklon-B in his left hand while he opened and then closed the 30 by 40 cm shutter through which he introduced the pellets with his right hand. This performance was to be repeated six times. If he was not capable of such a balancing act, the SS had to climb his little ladder three times for each opening: first to open the shutter (up and down), second to introduce the Zyklon-B (up and down) and third to close the shutter (up and down). Six openings, eighteen times up and down the ladder wearing a gas mask. A simulation shows that this exercise would take 10 minutes. A few steps installed beneath each opening would have avoided all this performance. .../
Summarizing, after Krematorium IV had been in operation for one or two weeks, representing two or three gassings, the Bauleitung found that:
1. The furnace was starting to crack; 2. The natural ventilation was badly oriented and dangerous; 3. Introducing the poison resembled a circus act.
</quote Pressac>
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0386.htm
So, even Pressac recognized the absurdity of the operation at Krema IV and V but you wont believe what the SS "invented" to send batches of 2000 gassed people from undergrounded rooms to the oven's floor at Krema II and III.
The SS "planned" nothing less than a fantastic 2.15 x 1.35 m "little lift" !!! The powerful German industry of that time "ignored" the existence of simple conveyor belts!!! OK, it was ridiculous to put the "killing chambers" underground at a first place while the "final destination" of the mass was at ground level but I can't change the DOGMA. To my point of view, the "little lift" seems perfectly adapted to the dimension of a wheeling table of a morgue but the DOGMA tells there were NO MORGUES at Birkenau. The drawings show "morgues", the SS built morgues (see Bishoff's letter), morgues are reported to exist, several documents prove that morgues worked as morgues but all that is supposed to be a "camouflage".
SO, we have to live with the absurd consequences.
3- they forgot that the DEGESCH machine was able to open automatically the cans.
--> At industrial scale, the morons put at least 4 clowns (one at each HOLE) on the roof of the alleged "gas chambers" to "introduce" the pellets by an intricate system of basket sliding into a wire mesh column and to lift back with a ROPE or WIRE the residual ZB after 15 to 30 min of "gassing".
MOre amazing, at Krema IV and V, see above the Pressac's description of the "circus performance" of the clowns bearing and opening manually cans on their ladders.
4- they forgot that the DEGESCH machine or a simple little electrical heater could control the temperature of the Zyclon B during the operation in order to evaporate QUICKLY and COMPLETELY the HCN out of pellets.
---> At industrial scale, the idiots were dependent of the room temperature according to the weather outside and the body heat of the gassed people. Furthermore, at Krema II and III the rooms were underground with a 50 cm thick hearth layer onto the concrete ceiling in order to have lower temperature than outside (normal for a morgue but counterproductive for a supposed "gas chamber").
If we observe the HCN evaporation curves we see that if the nazis were "lucky" that could have a room temperature of 15ºC in the room. At that temperature, 50% of the HCN was still into the ZB pellets after 1/2 h of gassing (time considered a maximum while the average was about 15 min according to "eyewitnesses"). The morons forgot that a simple heating would have allowed to evaporate completely the HCN in less time.
http://vho.org/GB/Books/trr/Image19.gif
4- DEGESCH as well as internal "Dokumente NI-9912" recommended to recuperate the ZB pellets in order to recycle that substrate by reloading them with HCN.
---> At industrial scale, the morons threw away the ZB around their workstation near the holes despite the fact that they contained about 50% HCN residual in. That is the figure if we consider 30m min of "gassing" but according with some "eyewitnesses" the time could have been 5 min or 15 min so MORE HCN in the pellets which were thrown away by the clowns.
And, hem, at Krema IV and V how did "the clowns on their ladders" recuperate the pellets after 5, 15 or even 30 min of gassing ????
After each "gassing operation" did the nazis open the "gas chambers" doors with pellets of ZB on the floor containing at least 50% of HCN which continued to evaporate while a good wind was blowing by chance in the good direction through those 6 little windows on the wall?????
5- The DOGMA insists in repeating that the operations of homicidal gassing were performed "SECRETLY" and that explains why so few "direct eyewitnesses" would have been able to see them.
---> In fact the Dogma tells that only few "sonderkommandos were able to tell the story because all of them were killed once made the job.
Nobody explains why the SS "forgot" to kill all them while at least 120 were "saved" from Auschwitz and followed the nazis when they evacuated the camp. That is what I call the "Sonderkommando's paradox" Few of them told they "saw" gassings with the contradictions and incoherence we know but, what did actually tell the "others" sonderkommandos survivors of Auschwitz ?
---> Now comes the best. WE have to observe how SS managed the lay out of the "industrial killing factories" at Birkenau in order to murder thousands of people SECRETLY. Try to figure out how the SS made their "industrial installation".
Amazingly, the nazis built at Birkenau, în the middle of the 4 "killing Krema", the more modern equipment available at that time in order to fight epidemics including typhus.
THE BIRKENAU "ZENTRAL SAUNA" WITH ITS DISINFECTION AUTOCLAVES AND ITS TOPF DISINFESTATION OVENS
.../
The Zentral Sauna was the most comprehensive disinfection and disinfestation installation in KGL Birkenau. Designed after the “sanitary crisis” of August 1942 (typhus epidemic), the first three drawings for it date from November 1942 [Drawings 1, 2 and 3]. Its equipment was to include three disinfection autoclaves and four Topf disinfestation hot air chambers [Drawing 4].
.../
THE EFFECTS DISINFECTION AND DISINFESTATION OPERATIONS
These operations as carried out at the Zentral Sauna were described in a letter sent to the Auschwitz Museum by a Czech former prisoner:
(Summary)
The procedures used were:
1. Hot air: Large and heavy effects, such as coats, outer clothing, etc.; 2. Steam: “light” effects, such as underclothes, shirts and any type of clothing considered as light, for example the “Zebra-Kleider,” prison uniforms. Blankets were also included in this group 3. Other: Leather objects, such au shoes, belts. etc. were disinfected using Karbol. Lysol or water containing hydrocyanic acid, a mixture obtained by pouring Zyklon-B crystals into the water.
This letter mentions that the operations continued 24 hours a day, with three shifts of prisoners on this task, changing every eight hours.
It will be noted that the methods described by this former prisoner were almost identical with those used in the US Army at that time [see following page],
...
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0065.htm
BUT, NOT ONLY all those prophylactic equipments were installed in the MIDDLE OF 4 KILLING FACTORIES. It was also there an HOSPITAL, a SPORT'S FIELD and 30 BARRACKS !!!!!
All separated by "transparent fences" made with barbed wires.
Try to imagine the fluxes and moves of all that people going there to be disinfes-fected while crossing the way of the numerous ones who were "on their way to be gassed".
Some holoks insist in sustaining that Zentral Sauna NEVER WORKED while others prefer to silent its existence. Here, we have the testimony of a French woman sent to Zentral Sauna in July 1943:
"THE FIRST DELOUSING Experienced at Birkenau (Womens Camp)" Macha RAVINE, 35,334.
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0054.htm
It mustn't be very difficult to gather other testimonies concerning the normal life at the camps including regular prophylactic measures applied to prisoners.
But, we must observe that Macha RAVINE didn't see ANY QUEUE of JEWS TO BE GASSED on her way to Zentral Sauna and her return. That is an interesting point in summer 1943 when the "4 killing factories" were supposed to be working. ANY PRISONER MENTIONED THAT FACT. The DOGMA says: Hundreds of thousands jews "disappeared upon arrival" after the "selection" step and then NOBODY has seen them again, Amen.
ISN'T IT UNBELIEVABLE? YOu must think I invent all that stuff.
So, observe the lay out of the installations at Birkenau
See the top of the plan
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Images/051-01.jpg http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0051.htm
If someone has a clearer plan I'll take it.
Anyway, we can see the respective position of the Krema II to V - the supposed "killing factories"- the Zentral sauna and 30 barracks.
Sorry , I missed the link where the sport's field appears clearly on the drawing but don't worry, any holok "denies" that it was a sport's field there. They simply doesn't talk about it.
But that plan is useful to figure out all those people's moves between each building, the "normal prisoners" going and returning from Zentral Sauna or Hospital crossing the files of "to be gassed" ones or the "killing workers" supposedly hosted in the 30 barracks while a soccer party was played on that place.
Not only the sonderkommandos were "seeing" the "horror" occurring there.
Thus, to resume, at that little zone of Birkenau
- There were thousands of normal prisoners sent regularly from main camp to Zentral Sauna at Birkenau to be disinfest-disinfested (and sent back). - There were a lot of prisoners sent to the hospital (and sent back). - There were a lot of prisoners living in the 30 barracks. - There were a lot of prisoners playing soccer on the sport's field and others watching. - There were a lot of civilian workers of sub-contractors operating there who came back home every day.
All those installations were IN THE MIDDLE OF 4 KILLING FACTORIES only separated by barbed wires !!!!
So, those people were walking in the middle of "the queues of Jews supposed to be gassed" according to the lay out of that place.
That what I call the "Crossing way gambit at Zentral Sauna".
Explain how could the SS maintain SECRET their work of EXTERMINATION in the MIDDLE of ALL THAT WALKING-WATCHING PEOPLE ?????
How can we think that the nazis planned those supposed "industrial killing factories" to operate them "SECRETLY"?
AND where are the "eyewitnesses testimonies" of those normal prisoners survivors or civilian sub-contractors who MUST have seen the "queues of thousands of jews at the doors of gas chambers".
Or, do you pretend that batches of 2000 people sent there CONTINUOUSLY couldn't be seen at that place from people passing their time being there?
CONCLUSION.
After analyzing in details all the points mentioned above, try to join all those "little" incoherences or technical absurdities and think seriously if you can keep on BELIEVING BLINDLY on that "PLANNED EXTERMINATION PLAN" and its "homicidal gas chambers" working according an "INDUSTRIAL WAY" according to the DOGMA.
RJ11 - 29 Jun 2008 11:22 GMT (snip)
lulu, why did one camp require 870 workers to burn corpses?
SS labor deployment report, listing 870 stokers in the Auschwitz- Birkenau crematoriums: http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/aug2-3.shtml
RJ.
ZULU - 29 Jun 2008 18:35 GMT > (snip) > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Birkenau crematoriums: > http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/aug2-3.shtml How many times must we repeat the always same answers?
Reason?
For the same reason which made that the operations continued 24 hours a day, with three shifts of prisoners on this task, changing every eight hours to disinfest-fect inmates' effects.
A huge attack of epidemics at the camp.
BTW please precise how many times was that number of workers at cremation. I am afraid you cherry picked up the most impressive number which ran very few time actually.
When Typhus epidemics were at their maximum, not only ovens worked hard but also the installations of prevention like Zentral Sauna:
THE EFFECTS DISINFECTION AND DISINFESTATION OPERATIONS
These operations as carried out at the Zentral Sauna were described in a letter sent to the Auschwitz Museum by a Czech former prisoner:
(Summary)
The procedures used were:
1. Hot air: Large and heavy effects, such as coats, outer clothing, etc.; 2. Steam: “light” effects, such as underclothes, shirts and any type of clothing considered as light, for example the “Zebra-Kleider,” prison uniforms. Blankets were also included in this group 3. Other: Leather objects, such au shoes, belts. etc. were disinfected using Karbol. Lysol or water containing hydrocyanic acid, a mixture obtained by pouring Zyklon-B crystals into the water.
This letter mentions that the operations continued 24 hours a day, with three shifts of prisoners on this task, changing every eight hours.
It will be noted that the methods described by this former prisoner were almost identical with those used in the US Army at that time [see following page],
...
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0065.htm
RJ11 - 29 Jun 2008 18:53 GMT >> Why did one camp require 870 workers to burn corpses? >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >> Can you answer? Yes or no?
> A huge attack of epidemics at the camp. Prove that there was a "huge attack of epidemics at the camp" in the summer of 1944.
Do you have any idea how many corpses 870 stokers can burn?
RJ.
ZULU - 02 Jul 2008 16:39 GMT >>> Why did one camp require 870 workers to burn corpses? >>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Do you have any idea how many corpses 870 stokers can burn? See ANSWER #5 J.
Frank Arthur - 29 Jun 2008 12:34 GMT The value of your money is reduced every time you fill up your car NOT because of the Jews- because of Muslims who control the world's oil reserves and are squeezing your pocketbook. And you are paying the shockingly higher prices for food at the supermarket and costing more for every bite of food NOT because of Jews but because of high gasoline & heating costs of Muslims. You spend extra hours at the airport and endure searches including removing your shoes NOT because of Jews but because of Muslim terrorists who may blow up your plane or hijack it. 3,000 Americans were slaughtered Not because of Jews but because 19 Muslim terrorists who hijacked 4 airplanes loaded with civillian men,women & children and destroyed the World Trade Center and damaged the Pentagon.
>> (snip) >> [quoted text clipped - 537 lines] > "homicidal gas chambers" working according an "INDUSTRIAL WAY" > according to the DOGMA. Mack Fan - 11 Jul 2008 07:43 GMT FRANK Your E-Mail Address don*t work! --Mack Fan--
Frank Arthur - 29 Jun 2008 14:09 GMT If it weren't for the constant reminders by neo-Nazis, Holocaust deniers and assorted demented Jew-haters we might forget about WWII and what the Germans did there.No modern,technically advanced nation in the world ever brought so much destruction,murder, torture, suffering and human degradation than Germans under the Nazi banner during that historical era.No other people ever financed, organized and built gas chambers & crematoria dedicated to the widespread slaughter of huge numbers of human beings. No other country in the world organized a rail transportation system dedicated to rounding up,primarily Jews specifically, to be delivered to various concentration camps for gassing to death or working to death ordinary innocent civillians for no other reason except their ethnicity.No other people, than Germans, ever organized the removal of gold teeth from the cadavers, nor has any other harvest female human hair to be sold for industrial purposes of the German war machine. Germans paid for their support of Nazism and Hitler by having their cities destroyed, surrendered unconditionallY,occupied and forever in history suffer an indelible stain for their barbarism forever. Because of their invasion of Russia- believed by the meglomaniac Hitler,"would take Russia in 9 months"- resulted in Russia becoming one of the largest military & nuclear powers in the world. Three generations of Germans are and have been a democracy by choice and distance themselves from their horrible past. Only the remnant dregs of wannabe Nazis or fellow illusionists, who glory in the "good old days of carnage" glorify Hitler and continue to hate Jews. Germany's Chancellor(freely elected by the German people) Angela Merkel, addressed the Knesset, Israel's parliament, during a special session of the Knesset in Jerusalem. She said,"Germany and Israel are linked "in a very special way" by the memory of the Holocaust, in which 6 million Jews were killed under Nazi Germany and its allies in World War II, she said in the first address a German chancellor has ever made to the Knesset. "The Holocaust fills us with shame," she said. "I bow my head before the survivors and I bow my head before you in tribute to the fact that you were able to survive." Anti-Semitism, racism and xenophobia "must never take root again in Germany or in Europe," she said, and vowed to battle any flare-ups." Those Jew haters also hate Chancellor Merkel and consider the democratic German people fools too.
>> (snip) >> [quoted text clipped - 537 lines] |
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