The Profitable Dismantling of Civil Society
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Hardpan - 08 Jul 2008 07:40 GMT The Profitable Dismantling of Civil Society
Posted by Howie Klein
Down With Tyranny!
May 13, 2008.
Public infrastructure is deteriorating and Wall St. stands to profit from it.
Yesterday Scholars & Rogues featured a pretty ominous look at the serious deterioration of basic American infrastructure. The author, Dr. Denny, points out that our otherwise preoccupied government is normally only moved to action by catastrophes-- like the deadly bridge collapse in Minneapolis last year. So that bridge is nearly fixed. They're waiting for a spate of disasters before they do anything preventive. They may not have to wait long and we have far more than "failing bridges to find, fund and fix." Dr. Denny is left cold by the leadership abilities of the current presidential candidates to lead us successfully through a real crisis. Just to keep up, the U.S. would need to spend $225 billion per year for 50 years-- $11 trillion. McCain definitely has a couple wars he'd rather wage. But the country's infrastructure-- not just roads and bridges but also dams, sewage systems, drinking water systems, air traffic control, nuclear plants, electricity transmission lines, levees...-- gets a grade of D. Unfortunately, national politicians don't usually find infrastructure sexy.
Wall Street does, I found out on the radio yesterday. Tens of billions of dollars are coming out of the firms that brought us the real estate and mortgage collapse and going into buying up infrastructure. Alarm bells went off when I heard that the sleazy GOP vulture capital firm Carlisle Group-- whose real estate arm went belly up recently-- is buying up sewer systems and roadways. And they're only one of many.
Republicans want to reduce taxes and let the infrastructure go to hell so that the public supports selling it all off to for-profit companies. Democrats are too cowed to stand up for government functions that have been delegitimized by greed obsessed Republicans (and Blue Dogs and DLC Democrats). So... on to the predators. Today Morgan Stanley-- and I assure you a more unscrupulous and cut throat firm you will never find-- announced that it has raised $4 billion to target investments "that provide public goods or essential services in sectors such as transportation, energy and utilities, social infrastructure and communications." Global Infrastructure Partners (General Electric and Credit Suisse) have capped their infrastructure fund yesterday at $6.5 billion. A new Carlyle subsidiary, Carlyle Infrastructure Partners, formed specifically-- and under heavy political protection-- to rip off American taxpayers and ratepayers is investing $1.5 billion in transportation and water and wastewater facilities, including roads, bridges, tunnels, airport facilities, maritime ports, transit projects and other public benefit infrastructure in the US and Canada. Henderson Investors, CVC Capital Partners, Macquarie (Australia), Rreef, Citigroup, Ferrovial (Spain), Goldman Sachs, J.P. Morgan and Alinda are all up to the same thing.
Infrastructure assets such as utilities, toll roads and airports are attractive to financial bidders like banks and pension funds because of their stable cash flow despite having lower growth rates than other private equity opportunities. GE had disappointing first-quarter earnings, but its infrastructure segment performed better than expected.
The money being ante-ed up for infrastructure projects by private capital is at historically high levels.
New roads, railways, oil pipelines, hospitals and schools: the world is an infrastructure financier's oyster. In Mumbai, for instance, there are plans to build an extension of the city to house 15 million people - nearly double the size of London's population. One UK banker who returned from there last week said: 'I left London depressed at the state of the markets. Going there, you see that there are people making huge sums of money.'
Even in the developed world, there are signs that we do not have the infrastructure to cope with continued economic and population growth. Blackouts, road congestion and capacity problems in airports and on railways are commonplace in both the US and Europe. In addition, an ageing population means different kinds of healthcare facilities are needed.
The question is: how are these essential building blocks going to be financed? There has been a decline in governments' willingness or ability to pay for new facilities in the past 15 years. Among the developed countries, government outlays on capital projects fell from 9.5 per cent of overall spending in 1990 to 7 per cent in 2005, according to the OECD.
Increasingly, it is the private sector that world leaders now rely on to fill the funding gap.
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/85271
Day Brown - 08 Jul 2008 19:21 GMT I sympathize Hardpan. Reading Jared Diamond's latest, "Collapse" I notice that when the resource base is maxed, the power elites, rather than cutting back to buy time to look for solutions, increase their exploitation of all lower classes so as to keep increasing the perks and luxury they've enjoyed to give the illusion that "progress" continues.
Course, there is the unintended effect on increasing stress on the middle class- the workers who maintain the infrastructure you refer to. They work longer hours for less pay because of the power elite exploitation.
Machiavelli and Gibbon picked up on this. They saw that the aristocracy encouraged immigration to Rome from tribes that lacked strong republican traditions to flood the market with workers to drive wages down. They also funded the campaigns of demagogues pandering to ethnicity and religion, promising one thing to them in their own language, but saying something else in Latin to the Romans.
Meanwhile the senate reduced the taxes on the rich and increased them on everyone else. Mach saw this a lot, noting how, since a republic cannot tax the rich, and the lower classes are soon bankrupt, that they then borrow the money from the rich to run the government. Which works until some creditor sees the tax base will no longer the interest, much less pay off the loans. Somebody either no longer has the money to lend, or refuses, and that crashes the whole system.
There's no money to pay the military. Food prices rise, there are riots in the streets, and the proverbial schitt hits the fan. When this came down in Rome, Caesar had just finished looting Gaul, so he had the money to pay his own troops and took over. Mach notes how some demagogue will arise from among the people to take over, the military seeing where the followership is and going along.
Either way, the new leader seizes the assets of the rich to gratify the instinct for revenge from the lower classes trying to rebalance the books. Which dont work all that well because while the rich provide a very high cost of management, no management at all produces famine.
The recent "stimulus package" is an attempt by the power elite to return some of the money they've extracted from the lower classes. Machiavelli says corrupt republics always respond to crisis too little, too late. We will see. The US economy has been lucky and endured stress before.
But we may see the dismantling of the Untied States of Denial such as we see so often in the collapse of empire. "Constant Battles" says that the dissolution breaks down in different degrees in different areas. Jared Diamond, in "Collapse" shows how those areas that have minorities tend to have demagogues arise scapegoating, whereas those with homogeneous populations, lacking an easy target, pull together to find solutions.
Thus, when the USSR collapsed, the Southern multi-ethnic Red states who were so dependent on contracts from an obsolete military industrial complex and factory farms (agribusiness) saw demagogry, genocide, and famine. But the homogeneous NW Coast Blue Baltic States threw out the Soviet bureaucrats, and the lights in Riga, Tallin, and Vilna didnt even blink. In both cases the high cost of management was eliminated, but in the latter, local management effectively replaced the power elite.
If the US economy does not get dynamic visionary leadership that sees the problems you refer to, then the system is likely to fragment; the only vote you have which counts is that you make with your feet, or a U-haul. Some states and communities have more rational populations, as seen in the crime and education statistics, and will be far more likely to figure out how to manage their own resource base and infrastructure.
Some do not, and you can expect street gangs to turn into goon squads that terrorize under the charismatic leadership of an aggressive alpha male. Unless you are that male, you dont wanna be there.
Sir Frederick - 08 Jul 2008 19:58 GMT >I sympathize Hardpan. Reading Jared Diamond's latest, "Collapse" I >notice that when the resource base is maxed, the power elites, rather [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] >that terrorize under the charismatic leadership of an aggressive alpha >male. Unless you are that male, you dont wanna be there. Reflecting on your writings, I find the most terrifying aspects in the present situation, are the stupidity, incompetence, corruption, and apparent insanity of the managing or ruling elites, or elites to be.
Hardpan - 09 Jul 2008 03:27 GMT >>I sympathize Hardpan. Reading Jared Diamond's latest, "Collapse" I >>notice that when the resource base is maxed, the power elites, rather [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] >corruption, and apparent insanity of the managing or ruling >elites, or elites to be. Indeed so. Like the old saying says: "power corrupts" and apparently it also causes many "leaders" to go completely mad, it would seem.
Under a "democracy" such as we currently are taught we have, I see the same behaviors with the "voters". For instance, I see that madness with the supporters of the mostly likely candidate to win in November 2008, that being Mr. Obama, of course.
To read what many democrats seem to believe here on the "internets", he is the savior of us all, as if he can make cheap energy appear out of nowhere, bring well paying American jobs back home from Communist China and elsewhere and boost the economy back to what it was in the late 1990's.
Needless to say that is not going to happen, but no one ever said most people had the intelligence to figure simple matters like that out in advance.
IMO, it's only by our continual breeding of more humans, thus leading to the overpopulation of this planet, and many of the problem we currently have that stem from that, that mankind is still here and still making life hell for each other, like always.
Day Brown - 09 Jul 2008 04:31 GMT > Reflecting on your writings, I find the most terrifying aspects > in the present situation, are the stupidity, incompetence, > corruption, and apparent insanity of the managing or ruling > elites, or elites to be. I am hard put to say which is worse, for if the lower classes themselves were rational, they would not put up with it, and would not be suckered by demagogery and the resulting policy disasters.
Part of the problem is that ever since the birth control pill came in, smart women have used it thinking they could teach the craft to the airheads. Unfortunately, they were wrong about that. All too often, honorable talented men have stayed faithful to wives who bore them no sons, so they are out of the gene pool.
Meanwhile the charming philanderers have sired bastards to be raised on welfare all over the county, and now young women see there are not nearly enuf responsible young men to start a family with.
I've purchased copies of Cosmopolitan and Glamour to find out what young women now are being told. Its an eye opener. Replacing the traditional pieces on how to find and hold your man are raps about how women can get more pleasure out of whatever sex they are having. The Feb 08 Cosmo had a rap by a young woman, nearing 30, and feeling she's no longer young and sexy enuf to attract a man she thinks would be responsible, worked out a deal with her family for extra support, then surfed the fertility clinics to select from among thousands of more promising Y chromosomes than are in the balls of the posters here.
She is very happy with the baby she got. This fits with reports on CNN and 60 minutes about highly successful career women using fertility clinic services to analyze their mtDNA and matching it to minimize the risk of genetic disease and maximize the potential. This has been going on long enuf, under the radar, for some of these kids to be entering college now. On full scholarships.
This is defacto EUGENICS. And so far, has been practiced only by very smart WHITE WOMEN. When I suggest that from the standpoint of equal opportunity, the taxpayers should fund these services for poor women of all races, the silence is just deafening.
Now, I happen to be affiliated with a group of smart case managers who are coming to realize the problem, and setting up communal households for young women to raise kids- in the relatively clean environment of the Ozarks. Where the schools still work. I expressed some of this to a young mother (still nursing a 4 month old) last nite, and she was not at all taken aback by it despite having one of the few responsible young husbands. They were at my place in part to learn something of how to live and raise their kids here if civil society does dismantle.
This kind of thing is so far under the radar of the media there's no way of telling how much of it is going on. I've seen witches host a safe sex orgy, and myself taken part in tantric ritual. In fact, spoke earlier today about the coming full moon on the 18th with a young witch. This is not the kind of thing they want in the media.
I know of obscure rural communities in MO, AR, TN, and CA that are all polyamorous and using the bonding that results to develop more effective cooperation in cohousing and entrepreneurial opportunities. Wherever they are, they dont want nosy media or frothing fundies to show up.
And if the profiteering destroys civil society, they hope their local communities will be able to secure their future while the rest of the zealots have at each other. Given that these women and their kids are all remarkably intelligent, there's some hope.
Hardpan - 09 Jul 2008 03:48 GMT >I sympathize Hardpan. Reading Jared Diamond's latest, "Collapse" I >notice that when the resource base is maxed, the power elites, rather >than cutting back to buy time to look for solutions, increase their >exploitation of all lower classes so as to keep increasing the perks >and luxury they've enjoyed to give the illusion that "progress" continues. That didn't work too well in France, but we shall see what Americans will do when the stuff really hits the fan in another year or so.
>Course, there is the unintended effect on increasing stress on the >middle class- the workers who maintain the infrastructure you refer to. >They work longer hours for less pay because of the power elite exploitation. Yes, they certainly do.
>Machiavelli and Gibbon picked up on this. They saw that the aristocracy >encouraged immigration to Rome from tribes that lacked strong republican [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >pay off the loans. Somebody either no longer has the money to lend, or >refuses, and that crashes the whole system. The sooner the better, in my opinion. The fact is that if an occurrence happens to slowly, the population soon gets used to the fact, just like the parable of the frog slowly boiling in the pot.
>There's no money to pay the military. Food prices rise, there are riots >in the streets, and the proverbial schitt hits the fan. When this came >down in Rome, Caesar had just finished looting Gaul, so he had the money >to pay his own troops and took over. Mach notes how some demagogue will >arise from among the people to take over, the military seeing where the >followership is and going along. I have seen that with the current, well, puppet that we have as POTUS.
I guess that old saying about people getting the government they deserve was true after all. How can a complete ignoramus be "elected" twice, unless the populace is as stupid as he is?
>Either way, the new leader seizes the assets of the rich to gratify the >instinct for revenge from the lower classes trying to rebalance the >books. Which dont work all that well because while the rich provide a >very high cost of management, no management at all produces famine. Yes, famine is next on the list, to be sure. And with famine comes sicknesses and disease.
>The recent "stimulus package" is an attempt by the power elite to return >some of the money they've extracted from the lower classes. Machiavelli >says corrupt republics always respond to crisis too little, too late. We >will see. The US economy has been lucky and endured stress before. But the US had an strong agricultural and manufacturing base in the 1930's. No longer is that true. We have a nation of uneducated idiots who shop at Walmart (which equals China for all intents)
>But we may see the dismantling of the Untied States of Denial such as we >see so often in the collapse of empire. "Constant Battles" says that the >dissolution breaks down in different degrees in different areas. Jared >Diamond, in "Collapse" shows how those areas that have minorities tend >to have demagogues arise scapegoating, whereas those with homogeneous >populations, lacking an easy target, pull together to find solutions. This is something that is quite true, but of course, in todays' America that goes unspoken.
>Thus, when the USSR collapsed, the Southern multi-ethnic Red states who >were so dependent on contracts from an obsolete military industrial [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >blink. In both cases the high cost of management was eliminated, but in >the latter, local management effectively replaced the power elite. Unfortunately I don't see that happening here on a wide scale, if at all.
Too, since the Civil War, and the fourteenth amendment, the states have been seized upon by the federal government until there is not the separation that we once enjoyed, from one to the next.
>If the US economy does not get dynamic visionary leadership that sees >the problems you refer to, then the system is likely to fragment; the >only vote you have which counts is that you make with your feet, or a >U-haul. Some states and communities have more rational populations, as >seen in the crime and education statistics, and will be far more likely >to figure out how to manage their own resource base and infrastructure. Perhaps that is so. Montana would be one similar to what you mention.
>Some do not, and you can expect street gangs to turn into goon squads >that terrorize under the charismatic leadership of an aggressive alpha >male. Unless you are that male, you dont wanna be there. Which is why no one should be depending on the police, the national guard nor the armed forces for any real help at all. Just look at what happened when hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans, for instance.
Day Brown - 09 Jul 2008 10:07 GMT Polite discourse appreciated Hardpan. but to move on from where we are, which is not well defined, to some of the scenarios we mite be confronted with. Which may not wait til next year, or even the election.
If foreign holders of dollar denominated securities start dumping, with global communications, it could all come down over nite. Any nite. We can still hope the election discourse provides foreign investors the idea that their holdings will be worth something, but I've not seen word one from any candidate yet.
I've lived most of the last 40 years in the Ozark boonies, and never been gladder of it. I spoke with a young couple moving here who are also concerned earlier today. And every time I drive to town, I see new McMansions and starter castles going up. There's no decline in real estate values in the Arkansas Ozarks. Dont imagine there is in Idaho, Montana, or Alaska either.
But I've already got most of the firewood I'll need next winter already cut. That'll be a bitch in those northern states. Especially if nobody has chainsaw gas. Nevertheless, if four men can share a house, they can cut the wood to heat it with a two man saw. I was born on a farm in MN in 1939, and remember it that way.
Course, back then, it was big families, so the old man had 3 sons. Now, with just one or two kids, the nuclear family just cant cut it. I mean that literally as well. The young couple that stayed over at my place last nite seem to realize the problem. Lesbians and fairies, who are not fixated on the nuclear family model seem to get that as well.
But for whoever, moving here is win/win. All the construction by the early boomer retirees created lotsa jobs. Transnationals also seem to be moving in to the mid size (10,000-40,000 pop) towns along I-40, where folks tend to stay put cause they all have kin in the area. Job turnover is lower, and while the payroll cost is lower too, so is the cost of living. The land prices the rich pay for lake front or mountain tops are still going up, but there's lotsa shacks in the woods that are cheap, or even feasible to squat in.
Another issue Diamond dealt with twards the end of "Collapse" is how the areas that have timber- which provide fire wood and lumber, recover the fastest from economic or social crisis. The Baltic nations had timber and lotsa lakes and swamps that broke up the land preventing large factory farms. So, when the schitt hit the fan, the small farmers didnt need to talk to a banker, but just went ahead and shifted production to meet the local market needs. The Ozarks are too steep for agribusiness, so its still all family farms here, and the same deal. No doubt, there are parts of the Northern States like this to find if you look.
A town of less than 40,000 with lotsa small farms around could make out pretty well. Its not so many people that a horse and cart cant haul produce to town and back in the same day from a rural fringe that's only a few miles away. I dont see how a major metro area could function without the fuel for produce trucks. Most of the cities'd look like the same kind of disaster zones New Orleans was, with looting all over.
When corruption destroyed the Roman republic, Caesar'd just finished looting Gaul, so he had the *money* to pay his troops to restore order. Today, I dont think a general handing out nice lithographs of dead presidents will persuade his troops to obey him. Nobody, not even the streetgang leaders, has the real gold to pay his men with. Many areas would see gangs roaming with pickup trucks as long as there's any gas at all, out to get whatever they can from whoever they think has it.
But steep forested land, like the Ozarks, or the Rockies, or Alaska, would enable a few snipers to keep even fairly well organized forces out. Clausewitz, ON WAR:"when confronted with steep forested land, take your army around it." No doubt, farmers and ranchers'll figure that out. I see lotsa X-military moving into my neck of Ozark woods who already have that figured out. Its why they are coming.
If the global economy keeps on muddling thru despite how bad it looks, life in the boonies is still pretty good, and broadband is coming so they'll be able to stay informed about what is going on. I spoze we'll still get snowed in a few days every winter, but that's no biggie. The smart people who have all this worked out make better neighbors than the couch spuds in the cities. Stay tuned. Maybe you'll get a clue on when to drop out, hopefully ahead of the crowd. You dont wanna get stuck on the freeway out of town.
Immortalist - 09 Jul 2008 03:34 GMT > The Profitable Dismantling of Civil Society Supply-side Economics Explained
George W. Bush's economic policy is based on trickle-down economics, also known as supply-side stimulus. Reagan was a big fan of this idea also. Simply described, supply siders argue that the best way to stimulate the economy to grow is to cut taxes on the wealthy. When their tax rates fall, the rich will increase their investments. For example, a restaurant owner might decide to build a larger kitchen if she gets a big refund check. Then, she'll have to hire more workers to staff that kitchen, and so employment goes up, indirectly because of that original tax cut.
It's a neat theory. Reagan argued that it even makes sense for the government to cut taxes to below current spending and take on debt because in the long run, the economy would grow back so that eventually the tax cut would pay for itself. This approach is called "supply-side" because the stimulus (the tax cut) are applied to the suppliers of goods and services (the business sector).
The common objection to supply-side economics is that there's absolutely no guarantee that if you cut taxes on the wealthy, then they will use that money to invest in new business. In fact, since these tax cuts happen in bad economic times, investors might decide that their money is safer if they save it rather than invest it. Going back to the restaurant example, if the restaurant owner decides to just stuff that tax refund into a savings account, or just keep it in her mattress, then no job growth occurs.
Also, if the government did what Reagan (and George W. Bush) recommended and went into deficits to finance one of these tax cuts, and no economic growth occurs, then the government is in a really bad spot. They have to raise taxes back to sustainable levels, and then raise taxes again in order to get the money to pay for the debt, and then raise taxes even higher to pay for the interest on the debt. Or, they can do what Reagan did, and just roll the debt over by issuing more debt. This is sort of like paying off the Master Card bill with the Visa. It works great as long as you can always get another credit card to lend you more money. When the last credit card company decides not to give you a card, then you are in trouble.
George Herbert Walker Bush called supply-side economics "voodoo economics" because all of supply-side theory was based on a hope that the rich would invest those tax cuts and not just stick them in the bank. George W. Bush ignores his father's opinions about the wisdom of his economic policy, however, and is a big supporter of supply-side economics.
Third-world countries do the Visa-Master Card swap trick all the time. They run up huge debts by spending more than they tax, and keep borrowing money from private investors in their country and abroad. When it becomes obvious that the country is so far in debt that they will never be able to pay it back, investors start selling off their debt, even if they sell them at steeply-discounted amounts. This is really, really bad for the country still trying to pay its bills by borrowing more. When investors start dumping your IOUs on the market, then your country's currency quickly loses value. This is called hyper- inflation.
In 1997, investors all around the world had lots of money invested in east Asia. Then, people lost confidence in certain countries, and so investors all started selling off like mad. The investors sold debt denominated in Asian currency to buy dollars. This pushed down the value of Asian currencies relative to $US. In short, families in these countries found out that their life savings (which were stored in their home-country currency, like the Thai baht, or the Indonesian rupiah, not in $US) lost all of its value because of inflation. It was as if these people woke up, went to the store, and discovered that all the prices had doubled, and were probably going to double every day after that. That's when the riots broke out, which scared away more investors, and the downward spiral continued.
The same thing happened recently in Argentina. Investors all started selling off Argentinian debt, so the value of the Argentinian currency plummeted, and people were wiped out. Also, when you have high, high inflation, goods imported from other countries become much more expensive.
What happened in the 1980s is like a big Rorschach test. Some economists see all the signs that supply-side economics worked, and others see the same period as the beginning of severe fiscal irresponsibility ("fiscal" means how the government manages spending). There's no doubt the economy grew after the Reagan tax cuts, but it never grew enough to pay back the debt Reagan racked up. We're stilling paying interest today on that debt. We're also now adding to it because each year that the government spends more than it taxes, it creates a deficit, so that gets added to the debt, and we've been in a deficit ever since the George W. Bush tax cuts. Also, in some other recessions, the government has chosen to just wait it out, and most recessions end in about 11 months. Based on previous experience, the recession probably would have taken care of itself eventually, and we wouldn't have all this debt hanging over us today from twenty years ago that we still haven't paid off.
In 1991, part of the reason why George H. W. Bush had to break his "read my lips: no new taxes" pledge was because he was forced with the choice of either raising taxes, or putting the country further in debt. He made the politically painful move in order to protect the long-term interests of the country, even though he knew he was just about guaranteeing he would lose the 1992 election.
Clinton saw an opportunity to steal an issue from the Republicans in 1992. Since they were no longer the party of being fiscally responsible, Clinton made that his mantra. He balanced the budget early, by cutting spending and raising taxes. Then of course, the public didn't like that, so in 1994, the Democrats lost control of Congress. Still, thanks to Clinton, we got out of deficits by the end of 1990s and in 2000 Gore wanted to start paying down the debt, but then George W. Bush won the election, and instead of paying down the $7 trillion that we owe (about $24,000 per US citizen, and growing every day), he pushed through his tax cuts instead.
The US debt is at an all-time high, and the financial world is starting to worry about the long-term stability of the US economy. The International Monetary Fund, in a release a few weeks ago, recently warned that the US debt was increasing to the size where it could threaten the world economy. The Bush administration almost entirely ignored the report and the mainstream US media didn't make the report into a big story.
Meanwhile, the US dollar has lost about 30% of its value versus the EU Euro in the last 12 months. A weak currency in the short run may help our exports, but in the long run, it pushes up interest rates and frightens foreign investors. Since most of our debt is held by non-US investors, the US government's ability to borrow depends on maintaining confidence that our currency will maintain value in the long-term.
One economist described debt as more like termites in the walls, rather than a tornado outside. Both will eventually destroy the house, but it is a lot easier to pretend that the termite problem isn't so bad.
The Brookings Institute, a think tank in Washington, DC, just finished a paper that describes some long-term consequences of ignoring the budget deficits. Alice Rivlin, former vice-Chair of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors co-authored the paper.It is written for the interested outsider, rather than the professional economist. In short, allowing the government to run deficits indefinitely raise interest rates for all of us, risks inflation of US currency, and limits long- term economic growth. Here's that paper.
Total employment (the number of people with jobs) has fallen by about 3 million jobs since the economy peaked in March of 2001. George W. Bush promoted the tax cut as a tool to create jobs, and by that standard, it hasn't worked at all.
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/1/22/164856/449
> Posted by Howie Klein > [quoted text clipped - 87 lines] > > http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/85271
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