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Thye most modern view on medieval warfare - nomads in Europe

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am05@hotmail.com - 30 Jun 2009 19:55 GMT
4. Pre-Mongolian Nomads in Western and Central Europe

As everybody knows, a lot of bad things, from Völkerwanderung and all
the way to WWI had been attributed to the Huns. As a result, we have a
lot of knowledge regarding whereabouts, ethnicity, culture and warfare
of the XX century Huns [1] but, unfortunately, our knowledge of the
earlier species is neither complete nor definite. As a result, it
would not be totally unreasonable to assume that they could simply get
bad press coverage from all these Goths, Vandals, Suebi, Frisians,
Jutes, Alamanies and other people who invaded the Roman Empire
pledging refugee status [2].

As far as the earlier Huns are concerned, we have at least 2 main
theories:

1.    Migration theory. The proto-Huns used to live on the wrong side of
the Great Wall of China and as a result had been oppressed by the
Chinese [3] and decided to move westward because this looked as a good
idea [4]. Upon reaching Volga, around 370AD, they started pushing the
locals around thus triggering Völkerwanderung.
2.    Ethnogenesis theory is (IMO) much more open-minded and assumes that
most of the people involved had been ‘Huns by association’ (or even
not Huns under any definition) attached to the small groups of the
aristocrats who “may have carried ethnic traditions from place to
place and generation to generation” [5].

Not that any of the above theories has anything to do with the subject
under discussion. Well, one way or another, by the late IV century,
there was a really big number of the mounted archers [6] between Volga
and the Black Sea with not too many things to do. To quote Jefferson
Darcy [7], their style of warfare was “like sex: in and out”.
Considerably longer descriptions, like one of Ammianus, have very
little, if anything at all, to add [8]. Besides confusing speed of
movement, another winning factor was, according to [9], “their
fearsome physical appearance” [10] and “ragged marmot-skin
clothing” [11]. As if all of the above was not enough, they also had
bows, lassoes, long lances and, if they were lucky enough, “heavy iron
swords … likely … obtained by barter” [12]. By some, not totally
obvious reason, the authors insist that to use these words the Huns
had to dismount. Perhaps, this was some kind of a religious
idiosyncrasy, like Mongolian habit to finish aristocratic prisoners
without shedding their blood. “Another advantage that the Huns
possessed was their attraction for disaffected groups among both the
Ostrogoths and the lower classes in the Western Roman Empire” [13].
Unfortunately, their most advertised leader, Attila, made the same
mistake as Al Bundy when he did not listen to Jefferson’s advice (see
above): instead of keeping it simple and fast, he got entangled into
diplomacy, started fighting wars on other people’s behalf and
eventually confused things to such a degree that by 451AD it became
impossible to figure out who is fighting whom. At Chalons he and his
old buddy, Aetius, to a mutual great surprise, found themselves
fighting each other instead of joining their forces against the Franks
and Alans (as was initially intended). Confusion had been so
fundamental that in the middle of this sorry affair the Goths found
themselves fighting on both sides and Attila, quite unexpectedly
discovered that most of his Huns bartered their horses for the spears
and swords. To add insult to injury, almost immediately prior to
Chalons it was scientifically proven that his army simply can not
exist thanks to the grazing regulations so, instead of preparing to
the battle he was forced to haggle with the authorities about the
number of troops he would be officially allowed to maintain in the
Western Europe [14]. The best thing he and Aetius finally managed to
do was to disengage (with whatever combination of the troops each of
them found fighting on his side at this specific moment) and to go the
opposite directions. The legal wrangling continued for the next few
years until Attila died from a heart attack and the Huns had been
regulated into almost total disappearance until their reappearance,
centuries later, in Germany. By this time most of them turned into the
pedestrians while preserving a terrifying appearance and the spiky
helmets.

The next nomadic people worth mentioning were Avars. Just as was the
case with the Huns, their origins are not clear and there was a
contemporary controversy if they are “real” Avars [15] or just
“fugitive Scythians” fleeing from the Turic nation with an absolutely
unpronounceable name. It took approximately 14 centuries to come to
conclusion that whoever the Avars were, they were not a distinct
ethnic group, especially after they spent some time in Europe. Luckily
for them, nobody was concerned with enforcing the grazing laws at this
time and, as a result, there were no strong objections to their
arrival into the Balkans with approximately 20,000 horsemen. To
confuse the potential litigators, they came with an ingenious idea of
defining themselves as the numerous legal entities so, besides the
Avars, there were Kutrigur Bulgars, Utigur and Onogur Bulgars and many
others. Unlike the Huns, the Avars had been what some authors define
as “mailed cavalry” [16] armed with the bows, swords, sabres, lances
and, trebuchets [17]. Of course, the Avars lacked experienced
operators to position their machines correctly near the walls [18]. As
a result, the siege machines quite often had been placed far away from
the besieged places or even near the places which were not under the
siege at all and this resulted in the numerous protracted sieges.
Unfortunately for them, eventually the Avar rulers accumulated
considerable amounts of cash which they had been storing in their
capital. Quite understandably, Charly the Great could not tolerate
such a situation and started a series of the Avar Wars. Avar’s
traditional reliance on their reputation of a heavy cavalry did not
quite work out in this case [19]. Of course, being a practical man,
Charly get in touch with the local dissidents, arranged for a coup and
made one of his loyalists Khagan of Avaria. A little bit later the
Bulgarian khan Krum destroyed whatever left of the Avarian Empire.

In X century there came turn of the Magyars or Hungarians who are
correctly defined by Wiki as “an ethnic group primarily associated
with Hungary” [20]. Situation with their ethnogenetic (or other) roots
is similar to the cases describe above and will be skipped. After
settling in the area with which they are primarily associated, they
made themselves busy looting all their close and remote neighbors.
Just as the Avars, they totally ignored the grazing regulations, which
allowed them to increase their numbers well beyond the prescribed
limits. The most remarkable thing about the early Hungarian warfare
was their ability to perform all this looting, raping and burning,
while wearing their national dress [21]: “Usually this uniform
consisted of a short jacket known as a dolman, or later a medium-
length "attila" jacket, both with heavy horizontal gold braid on the
breast, and yellow braided or gold Austrian knots (sújtás) on the
sleeves; a matching pelisse (a short-waisted overjacket often worn
slung over one shoulder); colored trousers, sometimes with yellow
braided or gold Austrian knots at the front; a busby (kucsma) (a high
fur hat with a cloth bag hanging from one side; although some
regiments wore the shako (csákó) of various styles); and high riding
boots.” Add to this time and effort required for maintaining the long
moustaches and long hair and regular shaving of the beard. Small
wonder that when the Germans finally managed to catch up with them,
the result was tragic: the Magyars had been forced to accept
Christianity [22] and to …er… “civilize” themselves to some acceptable
level.

The smaller-scale mounted hooligans, like Pechenegs and Polovtsy had
been routinely operating much to the East and, as a result, can be
safely ignored.

_________________________________________________________________

[1] Ability to enjoy Wagnerian music, and read totally
incomprehensible philosophy, self-confessed bellicosity, sincere
obedience of the laws and regulations, deep attachment to the
uniforms, monstrous architecture, dislike of the French, obsession
with the well-groomed moustaches, unmatched  skill in a goose-
stepping, etc.
[2] Being “pushed out” by the Huns was a standard excuse even for the
tribes who never saw a live or dead Hun. When questioned by the Roman
immigration authorities, they usually came with something like: “The
Huns pushed out the Vandals, who pushed out the Visigoths who pushed
out the Ostrogoths who pushed out the Suebi who pushed out Gepides
<etc.> who pushed out us. So, we are the refugees from the Huns and
have a constitutional right to the free bread distribution, lodgings
and the circus tickets.”
[3] Anyone who possesses more than an average degree of patience can
find a detailed description of how this would happen if Gibbon was
around in his book on the crumbling of the Roman Empire.
[4] In the modern version of this theory, an important role is given
to the eruption of the local volcanos, earthquakes, flood, draught,
global freezing and global warming which took place in the
contemporary Mongolia, thus leaving the Huns without the grass and
other types of food. As a result, the Huns had been forced to keep
going westward (Eastern direction was less attractive because you’d
bump into the Pacific reasonably soon and then have to swim all the
way to Japan before you reach some reasonably grassy area). On their
“Westward Ho!” route they had been consuming all available grass (and
most of the natives) thus leaving no eyewitnesses to their march.
[5] Very close to an idea of “general errant” discussed by Saltikov-
Schedrin in “The Modern Idyll”.
[6] Term “mounted archer” is (a) traditional and (b) totally confusing
because many inhabitants of the BT areas expressed an opinion that as
long as an archer was in a possession of a horse or even simply rode
other person’s horse (including a stolen one) at any point of his
life, he must be defined as a “mounted archer”. Some even went as far
as extending this definition to “an person who may or may not be in a
possession of a bow but was not prevented by law from possessing it
and using it within the boundaries defined by law and may or may not
ride a horse in a real life but could _potentially_ ride one, given an
opportunity, providing there were no objections from PETA or other
animal rights activists and providing this act would not contribute
too much to the global climate change and was in compliance with the
existing laws and regulations.”
[7] From “Married with children”
[8] “Divide suddenly in scattered bands and attack, rushing in
disorder here and there, dealing terrible slaughter; and because of
their extraordinary rapidity of movement, they cannot be discerned
when they break into a rampart or pillage an enemy’s camp ….” Etc.
[9] “World History of Warfare” by C.I. Archer, etc. (don’t get a wrong
impression that I read it).
[10] A sight of the thousands of mounted archers with the moustaches
similar to those of Kaiser Willy’s should have a deep psychological
impact on the totally unprepared Romans.
[11] How many ground squirrels one had to kill to provide uniforms for
the Hunnish army?
[12] A conventional view on the Hunnish idea of bartering goes along
the lines: “You give us <long list of the items> and in exchange we
will not kill you right now!” By using this simple but effective
formula the Huns managed to create a vast trade empire.
[13] Especially among the disaffected and otherwise underprivileged
females who “greeted their arrival in the fifth century with
enthusiasm.” The Huns with their healthy outdoor life style (not to
mention their access to the expensive furs of the endangered species)
looked (at least from certain perspectives) as a welcomed alternative
to the decadent Roman men. After the first few raids, their reputation
was firmly established and all following attempts of the Roman and
Ostrogothics authorities to solve “Hunnish problem” had been
undermined by secret but effective female’s fifth column.
[14] Even at their decline, the Romans had a Law and, barbarian or
not, you can’t successfully argue with the official document if you
already a part of the system (which Attila became as soon as he took
stimulus money from the Roman government). According to the
regulations described in [9], every invading rider “required around
ten mounts … and the western European countryside could not have
supported such a force.” Attila was trying to find a legal loophole by
claiming that officially the Hungarian Plain is not “Western” Europe
but it did not help because according to the regulations taking the
subsidies qualified him as Western European regardless of his actual
address. He did not have an option but reducing his mounted force to a
mutually-acceptable number between “two hundred to twelve hundred
men”. The fate of the extra horses is not definitely known but he
surely had a lot of the unused saddles in his camp by the time of
Chalons.
[15] Nobody was sure what this means except that it has to be
prestigious.
[16] It was like a mail-order braid but in the bigger numbers and with
the clearly stated return policy.
[17] As was explained by B.Bachrach, this was a device simple enough
to be operated not only by the Avars but even by the illiterate Slavs.
Unfortunately, he did not make it clear if the literate Slavs would be
up to this task.
[18] “The Emperor Maurice and his historian” By Michael Whitby. Did
not read it either.
[19] While an average Avar was approximately 2 pounds heavier than an
average Byzantian, he was at least 4 pounds lighter than an average
Frank.
[20] Which is much less confusing than to be associated with something
having a totally different name.
[21] Try when you are dressed like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:8e_hussards_1804(fr).jpg
or this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kiprensky_Davydov.jpg  and
remember that cleaning services could be quite expensive.
[22] To be fair, while this act could somewhat restrict hussars’
behavior at home; it did not have any noticeable effect on their
behavior elsewhere for the next few centuries.
erilar - 01 Jul 2009 00:45 GMT
Another masterful chapter!

Signature

Mary Loomer Oliver (aka Erilar)

You can't reason with someone whose first line of argument is
that reason doesn't count.     --Isaac Asimov

Erilar's Cave Annex: http://www.chibardun.net/~erilarlo 

am05@hotmail.com - 01 Jul 2009 02:25 GMT
> Another masterful chapter!

Thanks Mary. Any idea which other areas (besides the Mongols) of this
subject should be covered?
Tron - 01 Jul 2009 10:28 GMT
Hi,

On Jun 30, 7:45 pm, erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
> Another masterful chapter!

Thanks Mary. Any idea which other areas (besides the Mongols) of this
subject should be covered?

- Well, there is the Rus...

T
David Read - 01 Jul 2009 17:56 GMT
> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> - Well, there is the Rus...

And the Khazars...

--

Cheers,

David Read
am05@hotmail.com - 01 Jul 2009 20:36 GMT
> > Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> And the Khazars...

The Khazars had been shrugged off by Pushkin as "nerazumnie" (lacking
reason). Who am I to argue with the Russian greatest poet?

[Well, as soon as I find something more entertaining than L. Gumilev's
claims of them being simply a massive Jewish-inspired (as usually)
anti-Russian plot .... :-)]
am05@hotmail.com - 01 Jul 2009 19:33 GMT
> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> T

Ok, you asked for it .....

5. Rus

Russian Medieval Warfare, just as the Russian Medieval history can be
easily broken down by a number of distinct periods [1]: pre-Varyangian
Rus [2], Varyangian Rus [3], Kievan Rus [4], Vladimir-Suzdal Rus [5],
Mongolian Yoke [6], and finally the Moscow Period [7]. As was
summarized by A.K. Tolstoy in his “History of the Russian State from
Gostromisl to Timashev”, all of the above had one thing in common:
total absence of order and common sense.

The earliest mentioning of the Slavs can be found the book of
B.Bachrach [8], where they quite correctly identified as the
illiterates used to man the siege engines in the Avars’ army [9].
After the downfall of the Avars, those of the Slavs who had not been
picked by the Bulgars, Magyars or somebody else had been pretty much
left to their own devices. According to the most romantic theory, the
Novgorodian Slavs invited Scandinavian family they used to know to
rule them, thus starting the Varyangian Rus. After reasonably short
period of time, the surviving members of this family prudently decided
to move elsewhere [10] and settled down in Kiev, which event is
considered to be a beginning of Kievan Rus.

Few things are known about their warfare of this period: (a) they
still remembered (at least for a while) how to navigate their ships,
(b) they figured out how to ride the horses and (c) they were patently
unable to limit themselves to minding their own business. The most
famously-bellicose of the princes of this period was Sviatoslav who
managed more or less successfully fight with all his neighbors and
even conquered, at the Byzantian prompt, big chunk of Bulgaria. After
which the Byzantians changed their policy and convinced the Pechenegs
to attack Kiev. After repelling the Pechenegs, Sviatoslav returned
back to Bulgaria but this time the Byzantians joined forced with the
Bulgarians [11]. By this time his own subjects had been so fed up with
his rule that they happily left him to his own devices and after being
blockaded in Dorostol for few month, he ceded all his conquests on
Danube and went back to Kiev [12] but unfortunately while still on the
way he was ambushed and slain with all his army. The local media
blamed everything on the Pechenegs instigated by the Byzantians [13].
Not too much is known for sure about his style of warfare except that
he usually slept on the ground, rode fast, fought on foot, was wearing
an expensive earring and from time to time had his underwear washed
[14]. In a battle at Dorostol, he arranged his troops in some kind of
a big mob facing all directions [15] and let the Byzantians throw
various things into them until both sides got tired and called it a
day.

Tracing military developments in the pre-Mongolian Russia is a
complicated task due to the following factors: (a) most of the princes
had names Yaroslav, Sviatoslav or Mstislav, with an occasional
Vladimir here and there; (b) they had been changing principalities
with an annoying frequency (at least 5, 6 times during an average life
time) so tracing them by principality name is not very practical
either (today he is <xyz> of Galitch, tomorrow of Toropets and next
month of Novgorod; sometimes more than one place simultaneously); (c)
with the few exceptions (like Yaroslav, the Wise Guy) their nicknames
are not very informative (surely, Mstislav the Old did not have this
specific nickname all his life and it is questionable if another
Mstislav retained his nickname “Lucky” after defeat at Kalka) and (d)
one has to dig REALLY deep to find these “developments” anyway.

More or less, this warfare looked as following. The princes had their
military bands which had been routinely classified as “Old Druzhina”
and “Young Druzhina”. Usually, the “old” one was not actually a band
but a state council which consisted of the people who may join prince
(if they choose so or if they did not have a choice) with their own
bands. The “young” one was prince’s own band and its members were
referenced as “otroks” (young men) regardless their actual age. Most
of them had been a cavalry with some vague notion of sticking to their
standard. Nothing definite had been said about sticking to the trumpet
signals.

According to some easily excited authors [16], a normally equipped
Russian warrior had been wearing a mail with a lamellar or scale
cuirass over it, mail chausses for the leg protection, a big shield,
helmet, “often with a half-mask across the face” [17]. As far as the
weapons had been involved, anything that could be stolen, bartered or
cheated out of the western or eastern neighbors or the local subjects
would do just fine. Judging by the available literature, the Russian
mounted ‘heavy’ [18] warrior would have lance, boar spear, javelin,
sword, saber, war-axe, spiked mace, fighting knife, small dagger, bow
and, last but not least, “kisten” [19]. Taking into an account that
such a warrior hardly could move, there also were lighter mounted
archers carrying with them only a part of the required arsenal. Being
expendable [20], they were predominantly used on the 1st stage of any
battle and never heard about

There also were some foot soldiers, assembled either from the city
militias or from those peasants who did not manage to hide. The 1st
group was, understandably, better equipped but, taking into an account
that in most cases the Russian cities were in a state of a conflict
with their princes [21]. The 2nd group was much easier to control but
its members rarely possessed too much of a weaponry besides pitchforks
and the battle clubs [22]. To make things a little bit more confusing,
sometimes all (or some) of the above had been operating on the boats,
rowing up and down the local rivers and lakes.

The enemies had been broadly divided into 2 main categories: external
and internal. The external enemies had been subdivided to those to the
West and those to the East with the internal being those Russian
princes with whom current prince at this specific moment was not in an
alliance.

Fighting against the internal and external western enemies was carried
along the same lines: enemy’s territory had been invaded, everything
that was not nailed down was stolen and the rest destroyed with the
locals being taken prisoners. Depending on a social status, the
prisoners could be (a) ransomed, (b) settled on the victor’s land
(being seemingly indifferent to the minor change of scenery) or (c)
disposed otherwise. Taking into an account the almost permanent
fighting and fluently changing the fortunes of war [23], distribution
of a rural population between different princedoms remained
approximately the same until, somewhere in XII century the peasants
figured out that the densely forested areas of the Central Rus provide
perhaps more difficult but clearly much less exciting life style [24]
then more open fertile plains of the Southern Rus with no place to
hide from your own or invading rulers.

Fighting against the external Eastern enemies was slightly different
and almost definitely much more fun because it involved a lot of
riding in an open and reasonably flat steppe. If by design or mistake,
you bumped into some opposition from the Polovtsy, you did not have to
worry too much because (a) the fighting style favored by the Polovtsy
had emphasis on riding very fast away if the odds were less than 10:1,
(b) if you got really unlucky, you most probably end up in a
comfortable captivity attended to the nice-looking Polovtsy girls,
riding wherever it pleases you and enjoying yourself otherwise while
the local khan keeps asking you to marry your son to his daughter
[25]. With more than one Russian prince eventually marrying the
Polovtsy girls, you may say that by the end of a pre-Mongolian period
all these little wars were more or less within the extended family and
not taken as a serious offense.

In the terms of attitude the Western opponents could be slightly
different case (like the Estonians who took the actions of Alexander
Nevsky so personally that they joined the Livonian knights in the
battle on Lake Peipus and, unlike their better armed and ransom-savvy
allies, had been slaughtered in presumably big numbers [26].  Of
course, this was rather an exception than a rule [27] and the numerous
encounters with the more culturally advanced neighbors, like the
Magyars and Poles had been carried in a proper fashion as far as
treatment of the top level personages was involved.

And then came the Mongols …….

________________________________________________________________

[1] The obvious problem is that, Russia being a country of
“unpredictable past”, definition of these “distinctions” heavily
depends on a prevailing (as of at this specific moment) “historic
school”. In its turn, prevalence of this or that specific school is,
traditionally (or at least from 1917 onward), determined by the
current de facto Head of State (most of the time, official head of
state could be safely ignored due to a complete irrelevancy). As I
understand, now they are back to “super-chimp” perception. The same
more or less (AFAIK) applies to their Ukrainian and Byelorussian
brethren.

[2] Actively promoted by the followers of the ‘super-chimp’ theory
according to which the Slavs (specifically Russian and/or Ukrainian
ones) descended directly from the super-chimp and had been preserving
purity of the blood since then. Understandably, their ancestry qualify
them as super human beings who, starting from the beginning of times,
had priority in all important developments made by a humankind and
possess, on a national level, the most attractive personal qualities
(hospitality being most often mentioned). The most dedicated
historians of this school managed to trace influence of the proto-
Slavs (of their specific branch) on Ancient Egypt and India (few
months ago I posted quotes from one prominent historian of this school
proving that Buddha was a proto-Ukrainian). The main problem with
accepting this, otherwise quite logical and reasonable theory, is that
its Ukrainian and Russian followers have mutually-exclusive opinions
on which of them do qualify as a descendant of a super-chimp and who
is just the most primitive and unpleasant form of life.

[3] Existence and/or importance of which is totally denied by “super-
chimp” school.

[4] Period of general disorder with the center in Kiev.

[5] Just like [4] but with a different center of disorder.

[6] At least one bestselling author expressed an opinion that actually
the Mongols did not exist other than as a PR stunt to improve image of
the Vladimir-Suzdal period.

[7] One can only try to imagine (personally, I can’t) how much
Ukrainian “patriots” like this one.

[8] See one of the previous chapters.

[9] Taking into an account their historical tendency to fix things by
kicking them really hard, the eventual downfall of the Avars can be
explained quite easily.

[10] Any attempt to establish some semblance of an order in the
Novgorodian state was a predictable failure until this problem was
solved once and for all by Ivan the Terrible. Well, not that there
were too many Novgorodians left alive after his solution.

[11] Why would anybody listen to the Byzantians, not to mention
joining forces with them, is mind-boggling unless one assumes that all
these people suffered from a severe form of a sadomasochism.

[12] Somehow it took him at least half a year, probably not only his
subjects but he as well, had not been too excited regarding
perspective reunion.

[13] As one of the Kievan boyars put it, “if Byzantians did not exist,
they had to be invented”.

[14] The last 2 items had been reported by Lev Deacon who reported on
S’ meeting with John Tsimishy.

[15] I suspect that Verbruggen called this “crown-like” formation but
the Russians at this point did not yet have the proper crowns to
perhaps something like “Princely hat” would be more appropriate.

[16] Including but not limited to those authoring Osprey series.

[17] Further author remarks that by the end of the 12th century they
even figured out that a couple of the eye holes in the mask can be, at
least marginally, useful.

[18] Their diet being very heavy on bread, most of their cavalry had
been very heavy.

[19] A heavy weight attached to a chain or a leather strip. While not
necessarily useful on a battlefield, was, is and will be very handy if
you are waiting behind the corner for a guy with whom you have some
scores to settle. Historically, kisten proved to be the most long-used
Russian weapon ever.

[20] Carrying a bow and being a competent archer is not always the
same and, in accordance with the retroactive historical tradition, the
Russian princes tended to choose quantity over quality.

[21] It was, of course, a little bit more complicated. City militias
could willingly support prince in a looting expedition against their
neighbors (Russian patriotism at these times rarely extended itself
beyond the city walls) or they may support one of the candidates to
the local throne against another. However, an idea of having any of
these clowns as a permanent fixture was, with the very few exceptions,
quite unpopular. Fortunately, the whole system of succession in the
Rurik Empire assumed frequent rotation, thus saving local citizenry a
lot of aggravation.

[22] By the reason not totally obvious, even the professional military
historians like Razin did not bother to explain the functional and
technical differences between a battle club and a simple club.

[23] Short of the innovative ideas like inviting the nomadic neighbors
to help with a looting of opponent’s (one of the numerous cousins or
uncles) territory, not too many truly interesting things happened
during the whole pre-Mongolian period.

[24] Beginning of the Vladimir-Suzdal Rus.

[25] Read “Story of Igor’s War” or at least hear an opera “Prince
Igor”. To prevent the obvious question: no relation whatsoever to
_the_ Igor.

[26] The Russian chronicles written prior to the release of the movie,
did not make too much out of the whole event and the Livonian ones
were understandably even more restrained. However, after the movie
made such a big splash and with the movie critics going absolutely ga-
ga, even Batu did not have too many options but to treat Alexander
favorably. Livonians had to keep their mouth shut at the risk to be
declared culturally-impaired and the Estonians _were_ considered
culturally-impaired at this time by everybody including Livonians so
their opinion did not really matter.

[27] See [26] regarding “cultural’ factor.
erilar - 01 Jul 2009 22:32 GMT
Klatschen! stampfen! Applaus!

That's as close as I can get to an appropriate language 8-)

Signature

Mary Loomer Oliver (aka Erilar)

You can't reason with someone whose first line of argument is
that reason doesn't count.     --Isaac Asimov

Erilar's Cave Annex: http://www.chibardun.net/~erilarlo 

am05@hotmail.com - 02 Jul 2009 18:17 GMT
More on the Slavs, this time from Razin’s “History of the Warfare”

The ancient Slavs knew how to make the boats from a single tree trunk.
On these boats they had been rowing all the way to the Black Sea. The
Slavic warriors on the boats appeared in the Crimea, near
Constantinople and even on the Crete in the Mediterranean [1].

According to Prokopius, they had been extremely tall and powerful [2].
According to the same source, “their color of skin and hairs not too
white or golden and not completely black but all of them are dark-
red” [3]. As was previously mentioned, their most distinctive
qualities included: forbearance, hospitality and love of freedom [4]

Their warriors had been very good in camouflage area and “could hide
even behind the very small stone or bush…. Yearly in the morning, this
Slav crawled close to the walls, covered himself with the dry twigs,
curled into a small ball and hide himself in a grass” [5] . According
to Mavricius, they could also stay underwater for hours [6]. The same
author describes their weaponry as following: “Each of them has two
short spears; some of them also have the shields, hard to pierce but
difficult to carry [7]. They also have wooden bows with the short
poisoned arrows …”. Razin adds to this arsenal a stabbing spear,
battle-axe, “berdish” [8] and a sword. Besides the shields, for
protection the Slavic warriors had been wearing a chain mail. “Chain
mail was made by the Slavic craftsmen. During this period, the armor
used by the Norsemen was made of leather with the metal planks fixed
on it; the Byzantians had been wearing plate armor [9] which seriously
restricted their movement; thus, the Slavic armor was superior to the
types used by their neighbors” [10].

Of course, just the professional comedians but even the military
historians [11] have problems when it comes to competing with Karl
Marx (quotes from Razin’s book): “ Just as Charlemagne’s Empire is a
predecessor of the modern France, Germany and Italy, the empire of
Rurikovichi is a predecessor of Poland, Lithuania, Baltic settlements,
Turkey and Muscovite state.” “Ancient maps of Russia … show that in
the old times this country possessed in Europe even greater
territories than those it has now.”  Well, it is very reassuring that
Marx’s ignorance and general stupidity were not restricted to one or
two areas of knowledge but were going, so to speak, across the board.

The main military activities of the Russian princes of the late IX –
early X century had been expeditions with a purpose to squeeze taxes
from their own subjects. These expeditions usually happened during the
winter [12] so that it would be more difficult for the taxpayers to
hide themselves in the forests.

In the early X century Prince Oleg of Kiev launched a big-scale
expedition against Constantinople. “According to the chronicle, 2000
boats had been built for this expedition; each boat could accommodate
up to 40 people which means that the total number was up to 80,000
warriors. Additionally, this army included a strong cavalry [13] ….
Fleet with an infantry was sailing down the Dnieper and then along the
Western coast of the Black Sea all the way to Constantinople. Cavalry
followed the fleet [14]”. Upon reaching Constantinople, the Russians
took their boats ashore, put them on the wheels [15] and, using the
favorable wind, drove all the way to the walls [16]. There is even
information that, to scare the Byzantians, the Russians flew big
number of the kites [17]. According to the chronicle, the Byzantians
agreed to pay Russians certain amount of money and allowed their
visiting merchants to use public baths free of charge [18], after
which the Russians left their shields hanging on the gates of
Constantinople [19]. It is not explained why the Byzantians decided to
capitulate if they were sitting behind the strong walls and the
besiegers did not have any siege weapons except the kites and the
boats on the wheels. My personal theory is that they mistook Oleg’s
expedition for a traveling amusement park and that money mentioned
were paid for the admission tickets [20]. Few decades later they
decided to repeat their tour with exactly the same repertoire but had
been booed out by the Byzantians who did not restrict themselves to
simply throwing the rotten tomatoes but also burned most of the
Russian boats with the Greek fire [21]. Neither were they really
popular with the Khazars: the viewers of Itil had been beating them
for 3 days in a row and they had to run away, leaving most of their
equipment. However, as was mentioned before, the difficulties
(including obvious unpopularity) never were real problem for the
Slavs. Few years after the 2nd trip to Constantinople, Prince Igor
[22] sailed to Constantinople again. The Emperor agreed to pay him on
condition that they’ll not reappear until the new show is ready.

A little bit more on the Prince Sviatoslav. I already mentioned his
earring and there is a little bit more to it. According to the
chronicle, as soon as he reached puberty he started “voi
sovokupliati” [23]. Of course, in a truly Slavic tradition, he started
his reign with solving ….. er…. “Khazarian Problem”: destroyed major
Khazar settlements outside The Pale. This act “was very important for
the relations between the Slavs and the Muslim world” [24].

___________________________________________________________

[1] It is up to the people with a greater naval experience than mine
to figure out how big were the trees.
[2] This confirms a super-chimp theory. Alternatively, this is also
precise definition of the Cyclopes from “The Adventures of Baron
Munchausen”. Perhaps both alternatives are not mutually exclusive.
[3] This description would qualify them as the American Indians if not
for their auburn hairs.
[4] So perhaps they were medieval “Scotts by Mel Wallace”.
[5] Form-changing is a commonplace but size changing is, indeed, a
rare capacity.
[6] Surprisingly, nobody mentioned their ability to fly. I wonder why?
[7] Creating and then overcoming difficulties was one of the most
popular Slavic occupations over the ages. The popular song of the
XVIII century says: “Tschetni Rossam vse prepony!” (Obstacles are
nothing to the Russians!)
[8] A shortened halberd
[9] In the original, “kovannii dospech”, literally meaning ‘hammered
by a smith’.
[10] This is not such a big surprise, taking into an account that they
descended from a super-chimp and their neighbors did not.
[11] Who tend to be much funnier.
[12] Showing that almost everyone had better planning abilities than
Nappy and Hitler.
[13] Of course, at this point Razin recognized absurdity of the source
and cut the numbers down to the meager “few tens of thousands”.
[14] It is not clear if it was following by land or had been swimming
behind the boats. The 2nd option seems more realistic in the terms of
coordination.
[15] Nobody bothered to explain where did they get few thousands
wheels. Perhaps from the dealerships dumped by Chrysler?
[16] This probably makes them inventors of a popular sport: nowadays,
the small carts, driven by a parachute can be quite often seen on a
Nahant beach.
[17] Definitely, the chronicle confused Nahant, MA with Constantinople
but it is rather difficult to understand what is so scary about the
kites. Everybody likes them. Well, even Razin had serious doubts about
them being an effective intimidation factor.
[18] An option would be to have the big numbers of the unwashed (and
ill-smelling) barter traders all over the markets of Constantinople.
[19] As it was said earlier, they were too heavy to carry (meaning,
almost totally useless).
[20] In Boston, MA, the “duck boats” are one of the most famous local
attractions and, as I said, the wind propelled-carts and the kits are
extremely popular entertainment on some of the local beaches. To the
Byzantians these attractions could be a total novelty so the Russian
princes (owners of the boats) and their subordinates (who were driving
the boats, launching the kites, perhaps showing the tricks like
staying under water for few hours) could make really good money, at
least for a while.
[21] There is a very good chance that author of the chronicle (who
either did not exist at all or was born at least century after the
events) was, as usually, totally confused and what took place was an
unfortunate accident caused by the welcoming fireworks. Let’s use an
elementary logic: if, just for a minute, we assume that the 1st
episode was a military operation, who would prevent the Byzantians
from using the Greek fire against these boats on wheels?
[22] Not one from the opera and most definitely not THE Igor.
[23] The closest politically-correct definition would be something
like “Sex in the military enforced by a commanding officer”.
[24] Who would doubt THAT?
erilar - 03 Jul 2009 01:13 GMT
Bravo! bravissimo!  and all that 8-)

Signature

Mary Loomer Oliver (aka Erilar)

You can't reason with someone whose first line of argument is
that reason doesn't count.     --Isaac Asimov

Erilar's Cave Annex: http://www.chibardun.net/~erilarlo 

am05@hotmail.com - 05 Jul 2009 17:43 GMT
> Bravo! bravissimo!  and all that 8-)

Will more on the same subject be of interest?
erilar - 05 Jul 2009 21:20 GMT
In article
<7dc970bc-4b5b-4da9-be1f-0420d6da4fbf@l31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,

> > Bravo! bravissimo!  and all that 8-)
>
> Will more on the same subject be of interest?

I enjoy every MMV you share 8-)

Signature

Mary Loomer Oliver (aka Erilar)

You can't reason with someone whose first line of argument is
that reason doesn't count.     --Isaac Asimov

Erilar's Cave Annex: http://www.chibardun.net/~erilarlo 

Adamastor - 06 Jul 2009 12:53 GMT
>In article
><7dc970bc-4b5b-4da9-be1f-0420d6da4fbf@l31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>I enjoy every MMV you share 8-)

I would like to know where I can find "The Collected MMVs" I'm afraid that
I might have missed a few...
Signature

Dost thou not know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed?
        -Count Oxenstierna (ca 1620) to the young King Gustavus Adolfus.

am05@hotmail.com - 06 Jul 2009 13:36 GMT
> >In article
> ><7dc970bc-4b5b-4da9-be1f-0420d6da4...@l31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> I would like to know where I can find "The Collected MMVs" I'm afraid that
> I might have missed a few...

I never saved them on a regular basis so Mary is probably the only
person who may have all of them.

It was nice to find out that there is more than one reader. :-)
erilar - 06 Jul 2009 21:12 GMT
In article
<70de775f-4210-4571-adee-bf422b70883e@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,

> > >In article
> > ><7dc970bc-4b5b-4da9-be1f-0420d6da4...@l31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> It was nice to find out that there is more than one reader. :-)

My MMV folder has 304 kb of text in it.  I think I may have forgotten to
save a couple in the early days, though 8-)  Definitely; the earliest
one in the folder, Jan. 2008, refers to past chapters.  Drat!

Signature

Mary Loomer Oliver (aka Erilar)

You can't reason with someone whose first line of argument is
that reason doesn't count.     --Isaac Asimov

Erilar's Cave Annex: http://www.chibardun.net/~erilarlo 

Adamastor - 07 Jul 2009 00:10 GMT
>> >In article
>> ><7dc970bc-4b5b-4da9-be1f-0420d6da4...@l31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>It was nice to find out that there is more than one reader. :-)

The lurkers, don't forget the lurkers...  :-)

Mary, have you saved them all?
Signature

Dost thou not know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed?
        -Count Oxenstierna (ca 1620) to the young King Gustavus Adolfus.

Cheryl - 08 Jul 2009 11:54 GMT
>>>> In article
>>>> <7dc970bc-4b5b-4da9-be1f-0420d6da4...@l31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Mary, have you saved them all?

No, don't forget the lurkers! Until I discovered these posts, I knew
very little about medieval (and earlier) warfare, and nothing about
Russian history except what I got from a TV movie on Catherine the
Great. (I don't know why I was so surprised to discover that she wasn't
really Russian at all, since I knew perfectly well that German
princesses had married into lots and lots of different royal families).

Anyway, I now feel quite well-informed on these subjects! <G>

Cheryl
am05@hotmail.com - 08 Jul 2009 13:31 GMT
> >>>> In article
> >>>> <7dc970bc-4b5b-4da9-be1f-0420d6da4...@l31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Russian history except what I got from a TV movie on Catherine the
> Great.

Each and every one of the Catherine-related movies that I saw provided
the whole slew of discoveries in the areas of Russian history and
culture.

> (I don't know why I was so surprised to discover that she wasn't
> really Russian at all,

Being "Russian" was a tricky thing and, I would say, more a matter of
attitude rather than of ancestry. :-)

>since I knew perfectly well that German
> princesses had married into lots and lots of different royal families).
>
> Anyway, I now feel quite well-informed on these subjects! <G>
erilar - 06 Jul 2009 21:07 GMT
> I would like to know where I can find "The Collected MMVs" I'm afraid that
> I might have missed a few...

I think I may have all of them, but couldn't swear to it 8-)

Signature

Mary Loomer Oliver (aka Erilar)

You can't reason with someone whose first line of argument is
that reason doesn't count.     --Isaac Asimov

Erilar's Cave Annex: http://www.chibardun.net/~erilarlo 

kenney@cix.compulink.co.uk - 01 Jul 2009 12:37 GMT
In article
<504c7765-6e9d-474c-9dc6-4af987f52afe@r36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>,

> Thanks Mary. Any idea which other areas (besides the Mongols) of this
> subject should be covered?

I think the Hussites should qualify as Medieval.

Ken Young
erilar - 01 Jul 2009 15:41 GMT
In article
<504c7765-6e9d-474c-9dc6-4af987f52afe@r36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>,

> > Another masterful chapter!
> >
> Thanks Mary. Any idea which other areas (besides the Mongols) of this
> subject should be covered?

I'd have to go back and check, but have you done a full chapter on the
Rus??

Signature

Mary Loomer Oliver (aka Erilar)

You can't reason with someone whose first line of argument is
that reason doesn't count.     --Isaac Asimov

Erilar's Cave Annex: http://www.chibardun.net/~erilarlo 

am05@hotmail.com - 01 Jul 2009 19:34 GMT
> In article
> <504c7765-6e9d-474c-9dc6-4af987f52...@r36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> I'd have to go back and check, but have you done a full chapter on the
> Rus??

Now I did. :-)
kenney@cix.compulink.co.uk - 07 Jul 2009 18:42 GMT
In article
<cc8accf9-8f64-4d30-ab10-6e90e7ccdbbe@r10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,

> Now I did. :-)

I would like to see your take on the Hussites.

Ken Young
am05@hotmail.com - 07 Jul 2009 20:03 GMT
On Jul 7, 1:42 pm, ken...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
> In article
> <cc8accf9-8f64-4d30-ab10-6e90e7ccd...@r10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>  Ken Young

All in its good time
 
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