Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
General
General TopicsAncient HistoryMedieval PeriodBritish HistoryWhat IfArchaeology
War History
War HistoryWorld War IIUS Civil War
HistoryKB.com
Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map

History Forum / General / What If / September 2009



Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

The Panic of 1873 in 1874

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Luke Schleusener - 13 Sep 2009 17:17 GMT
The Panic of 1873 was a mixture of bad banking, government corruption,
and railroad overstretch. At the start of September '73, rumors swept
Wall Street that the railroad firm Jay Cooke & Co. had bad credit.
That rumor led to a collapse of stocks on Wall Street, a ten day stock
exchange closure in New York and San Francisco, and a 14.5%
unemployment rate three years later, closing 18,000 businesses in
bankruptcy; it led to the Great Railroad Strike of 1877, gave
Democrats Congress for the first time since before the Civil War in
1874, and led to the Compromise of 1876.

At the same time that the rumors spread, the government was set to
loan Jay Cooke & Co. $300 Million; obviously the loan did not go
through. Presuming that the loan precedes the rumors, and the messy
Gilded Age burbles along, Republicans holding Congress through the
1874 election, when Wall Street blows up in early December, from an
approximately similar source--though perhaps somewhat increased in
impact, depending on how the cards fall.

That done, Reconstruction hangs on full-fledged a while longer, and
the Republicans may pick someone different in 1876, either that, or
with Republican control of Congress, the Compromise becomes
unnecessary. That's not to say that the US could continue to occupy
the slaves states indefinitely, but limping along for a few more years
will give us more literate blacks and buy time and energy against Jim
Crow, among other things.

Other thoughts?

Best

L
David Tenner - 13 Sep 2009 19:15 GMT
> The Panic of 1873 was a mixture of bad banking, government corruption,
> and railroad overstretch. At the start of September '73, rumors swept
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> will give us more literate blacks and buy time and energy against Jim
> Crow, among other things.

If the Depression comes a year later, it may also reach its trough a year
later--and since in OTL there seems to be some evidence that at least in
terms of real output the trough was 1875 [1], in this ATL it would be in
1876, which means IMO that the Republicans' chances are very poor that year.  
There will be no "Compromise of 1877" simply because the Democrats will win
an unambiguous presidential (and congresional) victory in 1876. In
particular, the Republicans are likely to lose Ohio, which they just barely
carried in OTL.  
http://psephos.adam-carr.net/countries/u/usa/pres/1876.txt  And they will
*definitely* lose Ohio if they pick someone other than Hayes.  

[1]  "...the steady decline in prices from 1873 to 1879 probably led
contemporary observers and has certainly led later observers to overstate the
severity of the contraction in terms of real ouput.  As we have seen,
Kuznets' figures show no decline in net national product in constant prices
at all, only a slowing up of the rate of growth thereafter.  Although these
estimates almost surely paint too rosy a picture, only retinting, not
repainting, is needed.  Some physical-volume series decline during 1874 and
1875, but some rise throughout the contraction and most do so after 1875."

Milton Friedman and Anna Jacobson Schwartz, *A Monetary History of the United
States, 1867-1960,* p. 43.  
http://books.google.com/books?id=P_ckFu9NpKkC&pg=PA43    

Signature

David Tenner
dtenner@ameritech.net

Luke Schleusener - 13 Sep 2009 19:38 GMT
> If the Depression comes a year later, it may also reach its trough a year
> later--and since in OTL there seems to be some evidence that at least in
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> carried in OTL.  http://psephos.adam-carr.net/countries/u/usa/pres/1876.txt And they will
> *definitely* lose Ohio if they pick someone other than Hayes.  

I suppose; I had thought to delay the crash until after the
Presidential election, but that didn't seem quite plausible, though
these results are the obvious implication if it were to go to trough
the following year as you suggest.

Best

L
Doug M. - 14 Sep 2009 00:15 GMT
On Sep 13, 6:17 pm, Luke Schleusener <luke.schleuse...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> That done, Reconstruction hangs on full-fledged a while longer

My understanding is that by 1873 the tide had already turned, and
Reconstruction was clearly in retreat before the crisis hit.  The
Colfax Massacre, for instance, took place six months before the Panic
started, and Grant wasn't able to do a thing about it.

The Panic probably accelerated the retreat, sure.  But it was already
well under way, and would have continued regardless.

Doug M.
Luke Schleusener - 14 Sep 2009 01:48 GMT
> On Sep 13, 6:17 pm, Luke Schleusener <luke.schleuse...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> The Panic probably accelerated the retreat, sure.  But it was already
> well under way, and would have continued regardless.

Point taken; I very much doubt there was any real political will for
Reconstruction at that juncture, but a slower, more shambling retreat
may have...positive effects, or at the very least different ones from
those we are familiar with. I was trying to toy with economics and
politics at the same time; tricky, that

Best

L
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2012 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.